L
LIV
Guest
yes i see... since it looks like you are an admin .. can you delete my account?
luke wilson
The Living Force
LIV said:
Good luck to you Liv. I can understand why you would feel bad, but I cant understand why you would want your account deleted. I don't know if you've ever read any Castanedo and in particular when Don Juan talks about self importance and how big an enemy it can be if you want to develop.
The only person that will lose in the long run is you. From a selfish point of view, this place offers you personally, individually, a great opportunity to learn. You are taking that opportunity away from yourself because you cant go back on your own word to have your account deleted? I don't think you are feeling as isolated or as ganged up upon now, but still you are making the same choice. I personally put it down to pride. Its very sad indeed and wish you come across such an opportunity again in your journey.
LIV said:
LIV, I for one would be sorry to see you leave, as I think that you had something valuable to add and discuss with the Forum. I think it would be safe to say that there are people from all walks of life, all colours, all sizes, shapes and religious convictions who take part in the Forum.
We all come here with our own programming to work out, and discussion here is the way we do it.
None of us can help the way we are at the present, or the condition we were born into, because it was chosen before we were born. We chose the circumstance of our birth before we came into the world, so that we could learn some lessons.
You are no different in this regard.
Life is a school. We are here to learn.
And for what it's worth, I don't think you were 'ganged up on', although the discussion is becoming robust.
I ask you to reconsider your decision.
1peacelover
Jedi Master
LIV said:
Liv, your questions have made us think about various perspectives. Do not take the responses personally. These responses and suggestions help in learning discernment as well as inward & the outward perceptions of ourselves and each other. Give Thanks for the Internet that we are able to share ideas and thoughts through a network that forces us examine facts whether they be positive or negative. Negative actions can leave to positive effects. Keep researching, double, triple check sources and compare information in the middle somewhere is corroboration if you are willing to do the work.
luke wilson said:
What measures have we learned that we can use to consciously not participate in the greed, exploitation, etc. that feed other entities instead of ourselves? The use of Knowledge is Power. The C's
Almariel
A Disturbance in the Force
Continuing with the argument from the Cs, I'm quite not convinced by it (nor by them). What I interpret from it is:
1. Black people are being punished because of an old black civilization that presumably existed and was very advanced and therefore, cruel (what civilization in history wasn't cruel?)
2. Black people possess "primitive mindset". (This is a demeaning term)
Can you tell me where in these responses there aren't racist or ethnocentric comments towards African people?
I think that the Cs are referring to Africans as inferior human beings here, and I'm reading the "karma" argument to support that statement. Maybe I'm wrong.
Thank you very much for your link and I do agree with you: we have lots of historical programming and huge parts of history are missing and others are simply lies. And in those parts that are missing and/or distorted we have black (and other non white) people, women, poor people, workers, non-European people and LGTB people
1. Black people are being punished because of an old black civilization that presumably existed and was very advanced and therefore, cruel (what civilization in history wasn't cruel?)
2. Black people possess "primitive mindset". (This is a demeaning term)
Can you tell me where in these responses there aren't racist or ethnocentric comments towards African people?
I think that the Cs are referring to Africans as inferior human beings here, and I'm reading the "karma" argument to support that statement. Maybe I'm wrong.
Thank you very much for your link and I do agree with you: we have lots of historical programming and huge parts of history are missing and others are simply lies. And in those parts that are missing and/or distorted we have black (and other non white) people, women, poor people, workers, non-European people and LGTB people
:/ My impression regarding the race issue is essentially an effect of before and after the Aryans/Kantekkians/white people or whatever you want to call them, came here, or as is the case, were brought here. Their genetic structure wasn't as 'dumbed down' as the peoples of Earth, thus any seeming sense of superiority, though that was an initial situation long since lost in the regeneration of the race on this planet. After the usual regrouping process, it seems that they essentially picked up where they left off... total control of everyone everywhere, and this pattern of behaviour has continued since.... but in that process, all the other peoples/races on the planet had their own issues to deal with, which seems to have been punctuated on a massive scale once these psycho-type Kantekkians arrived and brought their issues here.... the usual desire to be king of the world, only, in classic STS fashion, they are mostly competing with themselves... infighting... and this seems to be a pattern in their current confrontation with Russia... you don't see them in active attack mode with China, who are playing it 'nice and easy' in their desire to do the same... they are following the same gameplan as the West/Aryan/Kantekkian crew... same debt explosion, ponzi scheme behavior in finance, education, media, religion and of course their miiltary strategy for their version of the NWO, leaving Putin to lead Russia through this game of avoidance as best as he can... If the American idiot crew operates like the German nazi one a few decades back, they will tire of Russia and redirect their resources towards China... as they still think they can manipulate India, which isn't too hard to do given all their internal racial issues, and alot of these issues seem karmic as well.
African civilization, as we see it today, has long passed its prime and remind me of the Native American people who couldn't imagine anyone acting as barbaric as the White Europeans.... the genocide, the constant state of war, the propaganda and lies, lies, lies to most especially their own peoples... same then as now, perhaps since they destroyed their home planet and came here to finish dealing with their issues. Ra made mention of how static the situation was on Earth before these Kantekkians arrived, and perhaps the reason they were allowed to be imported to Earth was to give the locals more catalyst.
Inferiority isn't the issue it seems, but lesson plan, karmic balancing etc. It would seem that STO type peoples would have a much easier time 'waking up', making The Choice, and empowering it if they individually and collectively as a people/race/etc are born and come of age in a situation of seeming inferiority.... same here in the West isn't it? Isn't it easier if the catalyst is hitting you in the face, kicking you in the ass etc? Those incarnating in a rich, powerful family would seem more likely to be STS oriented to begin with, though going against the family tradition is a good catalyst for an innately STO orientated individual... there was a good documentary of this situation in the USofA by a son of a man who tried and failed to do the same in his youth... .can't remember the name of it, interesting to see the son pick up the fathers' discarded agenda... as if to remind him of his lesson plan... like a slap in the face after all those years of buckling under the weight of social responsibilities etc.... to maintain the family wealth, tradition etc. Isn't this a common 3rd level catalyst? Race isn't the issue or so it seems. It presents a difference in approach as I mentioned with West vs East..... they take things for granted and because they aren't there 'in-country' and don't understand its peoples and traditions, they lose control.... same STS pattern everytime.... empires have to continuously expend energy to maintain control... they have to keep growing or face collapse... it's all based on expansion... thus the ponzi nature of our empires. China thinks it can slip in and begin its own... ;) they just don't understand what they are dealing with...
Any 'punishment' is therefore by oneself for one's own growth... to wake up and realize WTF is going on... to get 'as mad as hell' until you 'arent going to take it anymore'. The C's implied that rather than being 'inferior', it is more of the opposite in terms of spirituality... what we see today seems a repeat of the usual tech based society like Atlantis.... imagine a civilization that is tens of thousands of years more advanced technologically speaking, yet remain basic 2d predators in mind and spirit. What better catalyst than these psycho types to wake up sleepy civilized, essentially peaceful and respectful peoples? That's how I read the data. Peaceful people have a hard time seeing evil in others, right? Laura has covered this often in her writings, not that all the other races didn't engage in the usual warring etc, but it seems to have occurred in a much more simplified expression, whereas the 'white races' seem to take global conquest as a natural expression of their innate nature... at least the leaders of the tribe... as most people in any race are much the same, sleepy sheep who follow the traditions of their tribe, from birth till death, like any 2d animal.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the other races that haven't been consumed into the Aryan mindset, seem more parochial,more attuned to the Earth with respect, and thus 'weak' and easy prey to the imperial mindset of the predatorial Kantekkian peoples, thus seeming to be 'inferior' by comparison... but as usual, there are always enough criminal/predatory people in any civilization/race that will join the foreign imperial types when they come ashore, as they always do, as they have to, to complete their conquest. It seems that the other races don't have this deeply STS need to conquer everyone everywhere as the 'white' races, something they seem to have brought here with them so long ago. Has it really changed since? Local psychos, predatory type oligarchs etc will gladly join up with the global conquest crew when invited to do so, as they recognize their own kind... same could be said of the 'prey' or nonviolent people in all the other races, they too recognize their own kind, and they just aren't into genocide. This challenge seems to be for the intellect of the individual as they try to make sense of the world around them.
Of course history is messed up, same as everything else here in Purgatory... lies upon lies to support the need of the imperial mindset of the conquering tribe/race. Train and educate the conquered people to think highly of you and lowly of themselves, basic economics, right? Self-censorship etc.... get the sheeple to limit themselves, so that no fence is needed... that story/analogy of the dark magician/shepherd who hypnotized his sheep.... same rap everytime. A shell of limitation that gives one something to bang their heads against in an attempt to forge a new mind in a new direction of self-empowerment... the ole shaman stories, right? Sure, having a master show you the ropes would be nice and make things so much easier, but then less is gained that way. In the end, it is your shell that you have to break through, others can only point the way and show you the hammer that you already hold in your hands, called free will. Isn't this another reason why it's called an experiment? No pain, no gain, right? And it seems that with the game rigged as much as this current one is with psychos especially, that the Dracos are showing that reflection in placing this limit upon themselves.... they can't help it, tunnel vision and all does that automatically and Orion STS don't seem to care... taking things for granted like the West usually does in most of its operations.... same pattern everytime.
African civilization, as we see it today, has long passed its prime and remind me of the Native American people who couldn't imagine anyone acting as barbaric as the White Europeans.... the genocide, the constant state of war, the propaganda and lies, lies, lies to most especially their own peoples... same then as now, perhaps since they destroyed their home planet and came here to finish dealing with their issues. Ra made mention of how static the situation was on Earth before these Kantekkians arrived, and perhaps the reason they were allowed to be imported to Earth was to give the locals more catalyst.
Inferiority isn't the issue it seems, but lesson plan, karmic balancing etc. It would seem that STO type peoples would have a much easier time 'waking up', making The Choice, and empowering it if they individually and collectively as a people/race/etc are born and come of age in a situation of seeming inferiority.... same here in the West isn't it? Isn't it easier if the catalyst is hitting you in the face, kicking you in the ass etc? Those incarnating in a rich, powerful family would seem more likely to be STS oriented to begin with, though going against the family tradition is a good catalyst for an innately STO orientated individual... there was a good documentary of this situation in the USofA by a son of a man who tried and failed to do the same in his youth... .can't remember the name of it, interesting to see the son pick up the fathers' discarded agenda... as if to remind him of his lesson plan... like a slap in the face after all those years of buckling under the weight of social responsibilities etc.... to maintain the family wealth, tradition etc. Isn't this a common 3rd level catalyst? Race isn't the issue or so it seems. It presents a difference in approach as I mentioned with West vs East..... they take things for granted and because they aren't there 'in-country' and don't understand its peoples and traditions, they lose control.... same STS pattern everytime.... empires have to continuously expend energy to maintain control... they have to keep growing or face collapse... it's all based on expansion... thus the ponzi nature of our empires. China thinks it can slip in and begin its own... ;) they just don't understand what they are dealing with...
Any 'punishment' is therefore by oneself for one's own growth... to wake up and realize WTF is going on... to get 'as mad as hell' until you 'arent going to take it anymore'. The C's implied that rather than being 'inferior', it is more of the opposite in terms of spirituality... what we see today seems a repeat of the usual tech based society like Atlantis.... imagine a civilization that is tens of thousands of years more advanced technologically speaking, yet remain basic 2d predators in mind and spirit. What better catalyst than these psycho types to wake up sleepy civilized, essentially peaceful and respectful peoples? That's how I read the data. Peaceful people have a hard time seeing evil in others, right? Laura has covered this often in her writings, not that all the other races didn't engage in the usual warring etc, but it seems to have occurred in a much more simplified expression, whereas the 'white races' seem to take global conquest as a natural expression of their innate nature... at least the leaders of the tribe... as most people in any race are much the same, sleepy sheep who follow the traditions of their tribe, from birth till death, like any 2d animal.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the other races that haven't been consumed into the Aryan mindset, seem more parochial,more attuned to the Earth with respect, and thus 'weak' and easy prey to the imperial mindset of the predatorial Kantekkian peoples, thus seeming to be 'inferior' by comparison... but as usual, there are always enough criminal/predatory people in any civilization/race that will join the foreign imperial types when they come ashore, as they always do, as they have to, to complete their conquest. It seems that the other races don't have this deeply STS need to conquer everyone everywhere as the 'white' races, something they seem to have brought here with them so long ago. Has it really changed since? Local psychos, predatory type oligarchs etc will gladly join up with the global conquest crew when invited to do so, as they recognize their own kind... same could be said of the 'prey' or nonviolent people in all the other races, they too recognize their own kind, and they just aren't into genocide. This challenge seems to be for the intellect of the individual as they try to make sense of the world around them.
Of course history is messed up, same as everything else here in Purgatory... lies upon lies to support the need of the imperial mindset of the conquering tribe/race. Train and educate the conquered people to think highly of you and lowly of themselves, basic economics, right? Self-censorship etc.... get the sheeple to limit themselves, so that no fence is needed... that story/analogy of the dark magician/shepherd who hypnotized his sheep.... same rap everytime. A shell of limitation that gives one something to bang their heads against in an attempt to forge a new mind in a new direction of self-empowerment... the ole shaman stories, right? Sure, having a master show you the ropes would be nice and make things so much easier, but then less is gained that way. In the end, it is your shell that you have to break through, others can only point the way and show you the hammer that you already hold in your hands, called free will. Isn't this another reason why it's called an experiment? No pain, no gain, right? And it seems that with the game rigged as much as this current one is with psychos especially, that the Dracos are showing that reflection in placing this limit upon themselves.... they can't help it, tunnel vision and all does that automatically and Orion STS don't seem to care... taking things for granted like the West usually does in most of its operations.... same pattern everytime.
obyvatel
The Living Force
Almariel said:
The questions we ask often condition the answers we receive or look for. I could ask for example what about children born in circumstances which severely restrict the chances of leading what is generally considered a "normal" life? It could be a war-torn nation or more generally impoverished societies in Asia for example where the standard of living is off the charts? When the question is put in this way, karma provides an explanation for those who are ready to admit it. For more materialist mindsets, just random chance would be a plausible explanation. Explanations related to racial/ethnic/national fitness and superiority used to be very popular in the past and still are plausible explanations for many. Depending on the framework that conditions one's view of reality, these explanations could all seem convincing enough. Changing the framework could change the status of the original question entirely.
One such change of framework involves studying psychopathology and admitting the existence of a deviant pathological subspecies within the human species, unrestricted by race/ethnicity/nationality. The members of this subspecies act as the instruments through which a lot of human injustice is brought forth. Historical cycles tend to shift power around amidst different nations. When a nation is powerful, the pathological deviants within that nation have more means at their disposal to bring into reality their deviant worldviews. When viewed from within the narrow lens of time/space that we can access, we see particular configurations of the oppressors and the oppressed and try to construct causal explanations about why and how these roles ended up being the way they are. But we are likely to miss a huge part of the picture if we identify the oppressors and oppressed with national/racial characteristics alone without taking into account pathology.
Further change in framework comes from the work of Gurdjieff which forms part of the foundation of this forum. G's views take into account the larger picture where the issues of mankind are put into a cosmic context. Humans have studied ecology and come to the conclusion that pretty much all that is known to exist serves a purpose which is beyond the level of its own existence. Humans are no exceptions to this general cosmic "rule" and human existence serves a cosmic purpose as well. This purpose is said to be transformation of energies - just like other flora/fauna etc studied in ecology. With humans the hypothesis is that despite technological progress, we have failed to evolve meaningfully as a species in accordance to our potential. Thus we, as in humankind as a whole, serve the bigger purpose of the universe in ways which involve a lot of suffering, making up with low grade quantity what could have been a high grade quality of collective existence. The roles of oppressors and oppressed within the human species can be looked at as a general consequence of the cosmic requirements of the human species and our failure to understand and serve this requirement in a more creative and harmonious way.
If someone seriously studies reality using this framework, many of the questions that divide and polarize humans - like the issue of race - can be looked at in a different light. While social justice is important and worth striving for at our level of existence, the bigger picture questions that we tend to ask from this framework change completely and so do the answers and explanations that make sense.
It is my understanding that since the original question was asked of the C's and answered, the view of reality that has emerged out of research and observation has changed considerably. So rather than getting caught up with the apparent political incorrectness of the answers under discussion, getting up to speed with the framework which would facilitate a different perspective towards these questions may be more useful imo.
luke wilson
The Living Force
Hey, so I read the latest SOTT article today about #AllLivesMatter. I figured it was an ok article... I thought it was interesting that the author was giving 5 examples to show that indeed all lives matter...
Then I read Whitecoast's responses and I have to say I felt deeply moved because he made some very poignant points. I didn't even know #AllLivesMatter was some sort of meme or as a matter of fact, #BlackLivesMatter was one either. But alas, they are.... Shows how much I have my head in the sand nowadays. Can't handle the stench of racism in the same vein I can't handle to keep up to date with the ongoings of child abuse by the PTB. Just makes me feel sick.
Anyways, the article and ongoing comments drove me back to a blog that I used to read back when I was at university. It helped me get a handle on western racism (xenophobia is different everywhere - just last weekend I was checking up on xenophobia in Russia and that boggled my mind). Anyways, I stopped keeping tabs on the blog as it was based to much on racial issues and life has to be more than just spinning around race. Anyways, for minorities who are having a very hard time getting some of this stuff right in their head, it's a good extra source to check on. SOTT is good obviously as well but my criticism of it in this subject is that it can't really see the world from the eyes of minorities, as pointed out by the points made by whitecoast (I don't even know his racial heritage, but he made some really good points!) which to me represented something that the article refused to acknowledge even though I know that the article is trying to make the point that the PTB are dividing us.... still, you can't ignore what is actually what millions of people experience as a matter of daily life. This in my view is something that can't be made to appear otherwise... it is what it is. But yeah, for sure, no one would argue against all lives matter... I fear it is a disingenuous meme though as the very same people saying it seem to be putting down the black lives matter meme which in itself doesn't mean that other lives don't matter but rather a meme that is supposed to bring the issues faced by african americans (which other people also face! but not to the same extent) into focus.
Anyways, here is the blog which also every now and again comes up with nice tidbits of historical stuff that you would otherwise not be aware off... It's written by a single person as far as I know, though I don't get how it is he has managed to build such a MASSIVE readership. He's been around for awhile, surprised to see he's still going strong.
Anyways example of good posts that I just read today since I went back to check the blog out
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/burning-black-churches/ ---> There was a recent spike, who knew?!
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/jerry-hough/ ---->Not surprised any more with such stuff!
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/bill-cosby/
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/lumumba/
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/steve-biko/
Anyways, I suppose now that race is back on the menu of popular culture I'll be dipping every now and again to the blog to see what's being said. Closing off, I noticed some recent articles stating that the PTB are trying to start some sort of race war.... all I have to say to that is LOL! What? I assume they are meant to instigate black people into attacking white people in some sort of rage of anger? Lol.... I don't know where this came from... the only thing they are likely to instigate is to get people out on the streets demanding for equal rights that translate into lived experience rather than just empty words... not a race war. The only people likely to go around killing people based on race are paranoid right wing fanatics.
Then I read Whitecoast's responses and I have to say I felt deeply moved because he made some very poignant points. I didn't even know #AllLivesMatter was some sort of meme or as a matter of fact, #BlackLivesMatter was one either. But alas, they are.... Shows how much I have my head in the sand nowadays. Can't handle the stench of racism in the same vein I can't handle to keep up to date with the ongoings of child abuse by the PTB. Just makes me feel sick.
Anyways, the article and ongoing comments drove me back to a blog that I used to read back when I was at university. It helped me get a handle on western racism (xenophobia is different everywhere - just last weekend I was checking up on xenophobia in Russia and that boggled my mind). Anyways, I stopped keeping tabs on the blog as it was based to much on racial issues and life has to be more than just spinning around race. Anyways, for minorities who are having a very hard time getting some of this stuff right in their head, it's a good extra source to check on. SOTT is good obviously as well but my criticism of it in this subject is that it can't really see the world from the eyes of minorities, as pointed out by the points made by whitecoast (I don't even know his racial heritage, but he made some really good points!) which to me represented something that the article refused to acknowledge even though I know that the article is trying to make the point that the PTB are dividing us.... still, you can't ignore what is actually what millions of people experience as a matter of daily life. This in my view is something that can't be made to appear otherwise... it is what it is. But yeah, for sure, no one would argue against all lives matter... I fear it is a disingenuous meme though as the very same people saying it seem to be putting down the black lives matter meme which in itself doesn't mean that other lives don't matter but rather a meme that is supposed to bring the issues faced by african americans (which other people also face! but not to the same extent) into focus.
Anyways, here is the blog which also every now and again comes up with nice tidbits of historical stuff that you would otherwise not be aware off... It's written by a single person as far as I know, though I don't get how it is he has managed to build such a MASSIVE readership. He's been around for awhile, surprised to see he's still going strong.
Anyways example of good posts that I just read today since I went back to check the blog out
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/burning-black-churches/ ---> There was a recent spike, who knew?!
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/jerry-hough/ ---->Not surprised any more with such stuff!
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/bill-cosby/
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/lumumba/
_https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/steve-biko/
Anyways, I suppose now that race is back on the menu of popular culture I'll be dipping every now and again to the blog to see what's being said. Closing off, I noticed some recent articles stating that the PTB are trying to start some sort of race war.... all I have to say to that is LOL! What? I assume they are meant to instigate black people into attacking white people in some sort of rage of anger? Lol.... I don't know where this came from... the only thing they are likely to instigate is to get people out on the streets demanding for equal rights that translate into lived experience rather than just empty words... not a race war. The only people likely to go around killing people based on race are paranoid right wing fanatics.
Trending content
-
-
Thread 'Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?'
- wanderingthomas
Replies: 30K -
