Alex Jones - COINTELPRO? Fascist Tool?

[anart]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Of course you wouldn't know any of this because no one is taking the time to meet the new people and people are just seeing IP addresses and sharks in the water and so on and so on. So do me a favor and please do not assume that just because my first real foray into these boards is an emotional issue that has to do with AJ that I am somehow naive and haven't "grokked" any of the material. I have taken in far more than you might be aware of, so please don't make any assumptions about me because I am not doing the same to you.

Actually, the entire first part of this paragraph is an enormous, and entirely erroneous, assumption about me - which makes the last sentence laughable. You are greatly mistaken in your conclusions about what is going on here.

Anart, I don't want to fight with you. Seriously. I had a nasty reply but somehow it didn't get posted and I am thankful for it. You seem like a good person and your picture reminds me of someone that I care about in my life, and I simply don't want to argue about this anymore.

I believe that there is a side to all of this that I am not seeing and I want to take the time to see it before I comment any further. I am perhaps mistaken in what I am seeing here and it is not my intent to be anyone's enemy on these boards. I apologize if I have disturbed the peace here.

Yes, actually, I read the 'nasty reply' and deleted it. It matters much less to me what you think about me than it does whether you are sincere about learning how to SEE the truth in any given situation, and sincere about taking the necessary steps to do that. However, only you can determine and/or prove that, so I'll leave that up to you.

 

[Guest]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

I get a lot of that as well from some of his material. Remember the whole ordeal about Schwarzenegger being "the next President"? It was so laughable that it really detracted from some of the other material which seemed to be a lot more along the lines of what we knew to be true as well.

From what I see, you don't agree on a lot of things with AJ, as you did mention. Our disagreement is that you think that "oh well, he's got his flaws, but he means well", while I think: "I don't care what he means. It's the result that counts, and the result is that he is poking his fingers on collective emotional buttons".

I am "harsh" because I think of all those people unable to sleep at night because of the way this guy presents things. "Run for your guns! Their coming, any minute now!" See, I don't call that the truth, I call it spreading fear. The truth includes the weaknesses of the PTB as well as their "strengths", and I don't think the testimony of Charlie Sheen on CNN, for example, is a stroke of victory for the good guys.

And scaring people, and then screaming at them to DO something, is really counterproductive. Why, you'ld think the guy was doing it on purpose!. Oh my, what did I just say! How unforgiveable! He couldn't possibly have malicious intent!

And why not? Who made him St. Francis? He's human. The point is that his attitude is ENOUGH reason to suspend the tendency of forgive and forget, and really explore the possibility that he IS not only a shill, but a malicious shill. You know, a lot of people were saying the same nice things about Hitler before the war: Yeah, he's tough, but he means well.

Hmmm,... I think I heard similar initial assessments about EVERY person later proven to be a psychopath. Is that a coincidence?

My point is there is a line. Crossing it means suspending beliefs, and at the same time being open to every option, including the UNTHINKABLE. One should not hesitate crossing it, if one cares about the truth. If more Americans would learn to accept the possibility of the "unthinkable", the criminals of 9-11 may have been brought down already.

And by considering the "unthinkable" I mean as a human being with healthy and active higher brain functions, not as a reptile-brain dominated primate running-scared and ready to dig a grave and bury itself, or grab the nearest club and start swinging!

 

[The Gardener]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

And why is it so hard to believe that maybe he is sincere in his apology?

He is sincere on his apology.
He just skipped all he provoked thou.
He somehow didn't see the part about he being an "agent".

Jeez Laura, why does everything HAVE to be some kind of conspiracy or some kind of "troll" siege?

And you skipped all that has been said.

As Laura have been repeating (but you skipped that, and this is the origin of your comments): He is perhaps sincere.
But he does not address the questions he aroused.
He does not comment on the most important thing Laura said to him.

What has he done for him to earn any kind of suspicion aside from being a new poster on the forums?

He does not reads, he just talks.
And you have not been reading neither.

there seems to be some elitism from some of the senior members.

I am not a senior member. Nobody invited me to come here and no one has never asked me to remain.

the fact that you're so sure I'm some sort of double agent makes me question the conclusions you've come to otherwise.

Ok. And then? Where is you questioning? What are the concrete questionings you have to make? Or does this follows from the fact that we are so shure you are some sort of double agent, as you expose? Because, let me tell you, this is evident only to you.

and you won't have many people sticking around.

Like you, for instance? You mean people who can guide us and save us, like the Chrsit you say Jones refers to?

I hope that you are aware that every single one of those "steps" is subjective and prone to error.

I do not want to "attack you", but I think you are wrong here. You quote a set of steps designed to avoid subjectivism. And can you guess who reacts to that methodology?

Funny how the minute you start discussing Alex Jones, suddenly people crawl out of lurk-mode to defend him (...) I guess this is what they get paid for and they do it well.

Reaction Machines. They are upset because they are being told so, when in real they are innocent souls (to their eyes, of course).
But, why you say they do it well? I think they suck at it!

I have been reading the C's material for years and as I mentioned before, I belonged to a message board that discussed the C's material extensively for nearly 2 years.

Can you mention what forum was that?

Why aren't you guys interested in backgrounds, or where someone came from, or what their convictions are, or anything like that?

Because this is not a club. Instead, we are very interested on who we are and what we see.

It's evident that it's an emotional issue with some of the posters here and I frankly didn't come here to get into emotional confrontations.

I am shure you think this excludes you, right? If you had read what has been said here on the subject of your offuscation, you would perhaps realize of many other facts you by-pass.

And it's very presumptious to think that anyone that disagrees has little or no knowledge and are just "trying to start arguments".

You are not disagreeing. You are offended because we don't send kisses to Jones.

I belonged to a discussion group that discussed the C's EXTENSIVELY for two years.

Ok here is the link. Two years is too little time, and the real thing is here, not there. This is open forum. That one is restricted.

We didn't put his IP address into a database and consult with peers about lword useage or anything like that.

Because the kitchen is here. So you don't have to.
And how Amir come to the picture? What for? Youre trying to get some credibility with this?

I have taken in far more than you might be aware of,

Uhu...

That being said, I am not going to discuss AJ any longer.

You never discussed AJ. You have been discussing your self.

Until I look at all of the evidence and have read everything, I will not talk much more about the AJ issue.

Nice little noise you introduced so far, before groking you would had to look at the evidence.

you seem like a good person and what I will do is take your advice and go looking through the boards.

Is that your parameter? Poor you, if you get to feel EQ's bite. Would you take his advices then?

Anart, I don't want to fight with you.

She is not fighting you. Don't play the innocent victim, please.

You seem like a good person and your picture reminds me of someone that I care about in my life, and I simply don't want to argue about this anymore.

Is that your parameter? Poor you, if you get to feel Anne's bite. Would you take her advices then?

I believe that there is a side to all of this that I am not seeing and I want to take the time to see it before I comment any further.

Oh! Alright. So all your rant is now forgotten...
Can you feel the patience you are being given?

I am "harsh" because I think of all those people unable to sleep at night because of the way this guy presents things. "Run for your guns! Their coming, any minute now!" See, I don't call that the truth, I call it spreading fear.

Beside the tone of EQ being totally different to the one CyberChrist uses (which means it is possible to talk about AJ in different terms that "why you hate him"), it is to notice AJ explotes the fear factor to reach the population. He has been like that since ever. He is AJ thanks to that style.
He is an alarmist. And he has audience: Christians. White American Patriots who automatically nod at his every call to violence.
AJ justifyes the violence, the radicalism, the paranoia. This is effective on the skared minds which he does not invites to trascend the fear. He takes them to train them. So they come to talk-out loud, using the same argumentative strategy they have been learning from this "good man".
AJ hipnotizes the audience with a dramtic suspense which he satisfyes when enough momentum has been gathered, releasing the orgasm.
The questions he asks, when he ask questions, are not dangerous. Are key questions he applyes to follow a theatre he has been elaborating: He is after his bussiness. So he neds to have friends. He needs to be appreciated. He needs people to defend him... because they love him.
AJ audience gets reliable information?: No.
They get a fix of anger.
This is the style of AJ. So this is the message AJ spreads, despite of the subject he is treating (or not treating! Harrison pointed quite accuratelly "I want to hear him talking about zionism" -what does CyberChrist has to say about that, besides "I am being terribly attacked here, like you always do to everybody!!!"?).
Actually, the subjects are pretexts for AJ to come through.
In AJ world, everything besides AJ is totally irrelevant.
We have seen it: He teaches to hear only to the "good guys". Isn't that right, CyberChrist?

 

[Joe]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Alright, let's take it for granted that the situation is far more sinister than I would at first assume. He's part of the conspiracy, etc etc...

His body of work really only carries three messages though:
1. The government is NOT your friend. Stop trusting them.
2. Act now. (Constant calls to action, references to government sources)
3. Don't take my word for it. Get out there and find out for yourself.

Seriously guys, for a government shill... isn't this the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he should be saying?

Here's a theory:

there are people within the US government and its agencies whose job it is to contact members of the alt news and "9/11 truth movement" and feed them, little by little, accurate inside information about the US government and 9/11 and also to provide general support for their activities. Such contacts would claim to be disaffected and unhappy about the direction the US is taking.

If this is the case, then it is not hard to imagine that such people in the alt news and 9/11 truth movement would seek to maintain such sources and would, to some extent, abide by any rules laid down by their source.

In reality, the "inside source", while a real inside source, is working for the state of Israel and the so-called "Zionists" in both the American and Israeli government.

The goal of such an operation is to keep the pressure on those members of the Bush government who are not 100% committed to the state of Israel, over the potential exposure of the US government's involvement in 9/11 by the alt news and 9/11 truth online communities, and, most importantly, to ensure that the most prominent members of these communities do not write, speak or in general make noise, about the very obvious and even central involvement of agents of the state of Israel in the orchestration of the 9/11 attacks, and the continuing genocidal policies of the Israeli government towards the Palestinian people.

About 95% of the alt news and 9/11 truth people fit this profile. Which is not to say that all of them, or even most of them, are actually in this position, but it is likely that some are, and it is also likely that they will be the ones that have the highest profile, like Rense and Jones.

Joe

 

[redwraith33]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Seriously, this thread has left me hesitant to post anything for fear that the words that I type may reveal me to be an unconscious cointelpro agent. You guys scratch hard!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Seriously, this thread has left me hesitant to post anything for fear that the words that I type may reveal me to be an unconscious cointelpro agent. You guys scratch hard!

If you are honest, and can handle criticism to possibly illogical arguments, what do you have to fear?

 

[Wrayer]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Here's a theory:

there are people within the US government and its agencies whose job it is to contact members of the alt news and "9/11 truth movement" and feed them...

-snip-

In reality, the "inside source", while a real inside source, is working for the state of Israel and the so-called "Zionists" in both the American and Israeli government...

Hi Joe,

Well that's interesting but once again I find myself out of my depth. I'm completely missing the Israel connection to 9/11. I see it alluded to all over these forums but haven't yet found the actual explanation of how these things are actually related. I'm sure there will be a day where what you're saying makes sense to me but for the moment it's way over my head. Ah well, I guess I have a little more reading to do...

What you've said here does trigger an interesting connection for me: both Democracy Now (which I know you don't like but hey, it's a good daily) and Guerilla News Network routinely report atrocities committed by Israel against Palestine, and neither of them ever uses "informants". Possibly an important connection... mentally filing that away.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Well that's interesting but once again I find myself out of my depth. I'm completely missing the Israel connection to 9/11. I see it alluded to all over these forums but haven't yet found the actual explanation of how these things are actually related. I'm sure there will be a day where what you're saying makes sense to me but for the moment it's way over my head. Ah well, I guess I have a little more reading to do...

Check out the following link: http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/Stranger_Than_Fiction.php

Also, if you like books, Justin Raimondo has a book entitled "The Terror Enigma: 9/11 and the Israeli Connection". Also, Lisa has announced that WingTV will be publishing Michael Collins Piper's new book on this very subject, if I remember correctly.

 

[The Gardener]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Seriously, this thread has left me hesitant to post anything for fear that the words that I type may reveal me to be an unconscious cointelpro agent. You guys scratch hard!

There are other threads even more hot than this one. This one is but a taste.
I, on many many times, decide not to post too, on many subjects. I have writen many pages to then erase them: I am afraid too.
And this is delicate and important: While no one, never, has pushed me to sign some agreement, I have realized the fear is on my mind. Here, I have seen it, the participants are not biased, despite what others come to try to demonstrate.
I fight my fear. I do not succede all the time, granted. But every post I manage to write with some sence, is a batte I won over me and the forces controlling me .
I asure you this: Like you, like all the rest (ask, to verify this, if you feel like: Why dont you open a thread titled "What brings you here?", as a means for you to research your valid worries, ah?), what did bring me here was my conscience. Quite literally, my conscience drags me here.
I am struggling. And I am trying to face my self.
On the case of my participations on this thread in particular, my conscience dragged me to type what I did.
See, this is not only a forum. There is more to it than what meets the eyes.
I belive. This force has been devastating for me. Because that is the size of my stupidity.
Damn... see, I was to eares this. I wont: When I started to post, me too I also received my "welcome". It almost manages to skare me away.
Are you reading casschat? There, and here, it seems to happen very often. As CyberChrist and many other have got it. But it is not me! It is not anyine in particular!
It is... something else.
I am not making sence. I know. I can feel it. I am risking my self. I am exposing my self. I am opening my self. Right now I feel very nervous: Many participants here have high standars, you know? And I do not want to fail... them.... me!
Thats the fear!
To that, there is only one way -and it is on times hot.
But not always. Gain confidence. Thats a treshold to conquer!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

I'll start from the beginning:

While I have some problems with some of the names on the poll, I don't think that some of these names are "shills" per se. I have a lot of problems with some of the views that Alex Jones has, and I do think that he unwittingly pushes government agenda at times, especially with regards to the immigration issue, but I don't think of him as a government plant and the comments about him are a bit unfair considering that he practically gives away his videos and encourages others to make copies of them and distribute them.

Right from the beginning you are offering nothing but opinion. You "do not think" Jones is a shill. So what? A lot of people agree with you. Some do not. Why not say, "I do think that he unwittingly pushes government agenda at times, and therefore he is as good as a shill." When an alternative researcher seems to be doing CoIntelPro's job for them, he or she is either CoIntelPro themselves, or they are too dumb to be worth listening to.

I have challenged Alex Jones on his own show many times on the air and I still have a problem with a lot of what he says. But it never crossed my mind that he is some kind of secret government plant or anything of the sort.

Again, nothing but opinion. Who cares if it never crossed your mind? I have learned many things that, until learning them, had never crossed my mind. That's usually the way learning works.

Well, let's think about that for a minute. The poll isn't named "Do you think any of the following are govt. shills?" The poll is called "Who do you think is the biggest plant-shill-government op in the patriot movement and/or alternative media?"

Exactly. Who do you think is the biggest shill? In other words, a poll of opinion which is all you are giving here. The purpose of the poll was to show who thinks that these guys are shills. It is not saying, "all of these researchers are proven as shills because of the opinions of the takers of this poll." It is saying, "people think these guys are as good as shills." Why listen to researchers who are as good as shills? What's the difference between a shill and a dupe who does a shill's job without government funds? It's that the dupe is dumb enough to do a shill's job without government funds!

It assumes that every name on the list is a govt. shill or a plant for the U.S. government. It just asks people to pick the biggest one. Even Tom Flocco, who got 3% of the vote, is a govt. shill according to this poll.

No it doesn't. See above. It seems that, because of the fact that you are only capable of providing opinion as fact, that you think anyone else stating an opinion is stating it as a fact. Did you consider that some people see a difference between opinion and fact?

I do find his delivery to be over-the-top many times, but how does his delivery and ranting change the overall topic of what he is talking about?

What is he talking about? Or, more importantly, what isn't he talking about? Jones ignores Israel, Zionism, psychopathy. What he does speak about, he without discretion. He presents evidence in a false light, implying that it is something it is not. He says the Operation Northwoods documents prove the government planned 9/11, for example. This is not what they prove.

Jones is a censor, Rivero is a censor, Rense is a censor, Blood is a censor, and many others who censor content in the name of "reducing noise".

I find it interesting that you mention four people seem to be "as good as government shills." Why does Rivero ignore the Pentagon? Why does Rense promote Holocaust revisionists? Listen to the latest podcast for Blood...

Great or not, I don't see a lot of other people around with the balls to do something like [bullhorning Bilderberg].

What does this have to do with anything? You do not need balls to bullhorn an empty street. You can also have the following: a government paycheck, a lack of conscience, a need to be seen by others, etc. No shortage of possibilities here...

So why can't I question the nature of a poll and its results?

You can. You just didn't do so very well.

I don't think Alex Jones is an evil person, so while I do agree that he is trying to influence perceptions, I don't think it's something that is necessarily aimed at people like us who already know much about what he is talking about.

Opinion again. If Jones was a government agent, you still would not think he was evil. That is the point.

I think of someone being employed by a 3-letter agency on the side and I just don't see Jones as being that kind of person.

How many times are you going to let us know this?

In fact, it is my belief that Art Bell is pretty much one of their spooks now. I just don't believe that Alex Jones is directly involved.

That's one more...

Trust me, if anyone knows about their ways, it's me. I have first-hand experience with these guys. But that being said, I see these guys as blinded by the zealotry more than I see them as shills.

That's two...

Jeez Laura, why does everything HAVE to be some kind of conspiracy or some kind of "troll" siege?

When there is a lack of a 'troll siege' it is not commented on, because there is a lack of a 'troll siege'. When there is a 'troll siege', it is commented on. Therefore, you are certainly going to here more about 'troll sieges' than 'NOT-troll sieges.' Do you really think that Laura thinks everything is a troll siege? Honestly.

Is there any consideration at all that maybe, JUST MAYBE, this is just people questioning the assumptions of the poll? It does, after all, assume that every single person on that list is a shill, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, there are others with experience with the said people that don't think so?

That's three... Compare this to your original posts in this thread. Notice that you are simply saying the same thing over and over again. Have you not digested anything that has been said here since then? The emotionally-driven sarcasm doesn't help, either.

And why is it so hard to believe that maybe he is sincere in his apology? What has he done for him to earn any kind of suspicion aside from being a new poster on the forums?

Some manipulators are conscious of their manipulations. They know that "if I say this in a certain way I can get a desired response." Others are not aware that they are manipulative. They know they can get a response, but they never run the inner dialogue. Perhaps they grew up in a family of narcissists and know no other way of communicating. Perhaps he was sincere, but he was still manipulative. They are not mutually exclusive, osit.

In one thread, I am expected to believe that Alex Jones is a bad person because he drinks beer and may smoke. And as much as I don't agree with a lot of his material, I am forced to defend someone like AJ because that kind of attack is simply ridiculous.

Is this really the reason you made your original post? You made your original post at least 2 hours before Ark made his. Also, if you would read his post, you would find the following: "I do not necessarily trust the author of this quote about the rest of his article, but here he apparently speaks about some fact." The 'fact' related to Jones and Yahweh, not his smoking and drinking, which he'd certainly get away with here, as Anne mentioned.

I simply didn't consider the "poll" to be fair or accurate, as much as I may disagree with Alex Jones.

That's five...

Anyone dissenting from the official party line just HAS to be an agent provocateur, right?

What makes one an 'agent' is not dissenting from the consensus (not a party-line, as a consensus can be changed with the introduction of new data), it is the reactions they show in their responses. A person can disagree and be civil. Better yet, they can disagree and provide evidence.

As far as the AJ issue goes, this is my last post on it. It's evident that it's an emotional issue with some of the posters here and I frankly didn't come here to get into emotional confrontations.

So, this is your last post on the subject. Okay. Also, it seems that you are projecting your own emotional reactions onto some other members here. Opinions are emotionally charged, and all you have been dealing with is opinion.

That being said, I am not going to discuss AJ any longer. As I said before, I am not going to be put in a position to defend someone that I have problems of my own with just because the attacks on him are logical bombs.

That's twice you've said this now...

Until I look at all of the evidence and have read everything, I will not talk much more about the AJ issue. But I do think the poll is a bit flawed even if the WING-TV audience already thinks that the list members are "shills".

Thrice...

Anart, I don't want to fight with you. Seriously. I had a nasty reply but somehow it didn't get posted and I am thankful for it. You seem like a good person and your picture reminds me of someone that I care about in my life, and I simply don't want to argue about this anymore.

Now you're trying the same manipulative tricks that mk31 was using, trying to ingratiate yourself to Anne.

I tell you what-you seem like a good person and what I will do is take your advice and go looking through the boards.

Same thing here, with EsoQuest.

I don't feel like getting dragged down some emotionally-laden posts just because you feel like you're a better person for taking 20 quotes and answering them with snippets.

They're only 'emotionally-laden' because of the emotional reactions occurring in you. Have you asked yourself why you are having these emotional reactions?

 

[Fifth Way]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Seriously, this thread has left me hesitant to post anything for fear that the words that I type may reveal me to be an unconscious cointelpro agent. You guys scratch hard!

Seriously, you make your entrance by saying that you (victim) are afraid of our (perpetrator) reaction!
There are pattern of behavior to be observed. If, like many newbes, you would have extensively read a number of relevant threads that deal with the big subjects this web site is all about as a whole, It would have been quite impossible for you to not notice the advanced level of the discussion and the advanced level of the research already carried out by many members.
That level can be intimidating for a newbe but it will not inflict FEAR. If you show up and say: "You frighten me!" then why post here at all??

To me it is crystal clear that the level of discussion (especially in regards to Jones!!!) has deteriorated to an unseen low level from the side of the group that tries to talk UP Jones or to excuse his "faults", in an extremely short time (days) and that is unlikley.

Because there are things such as probabilities: All these "newbes" that communicate so manipulative, that play victims (i.e. pleaaase don't attack me - I'm inocent, realy, realy!) that don't supply arguments but uneducated opinions that are not only unsupported by arguments but can be taken apart WITH arguments easily, who then answer without addressing the arguments could in fact be just uninformed/ignorant, whatever. That is not really a problem. See, the reasons why one doesn't use background checks here is because we try to train ourselves in discernment and on the top of the list of qualities to discern is SINCERITY!

An that can be evalutaed from ONE OPENING LINE (like yours) redwraith!

The thing is; the pattern shows that those aforementioned "newbes" then do not go and read/use the information given (to reduce their level of uninformedness) only to come back with more manipulative responds, i.e. 'I don't want to fight with xyz' or 'Really I'm not an agent.'

And what is the probability that this happens suddenly, over the course of one week, multiple times?

Well I tell you: ZERO.

So if you are a sincere newbe, than you KNOW now that this forum is clearly UNDER COINTELPRO ATTACK and you (having walked into this situation that makes it unfortunately harder for YOU) would be good advised to be extra generous with the members that are here since a while.

Because now you KNOW what is going on! You know that THIS is what the attack is all about! The purpose of the attack is to make YOU fear US.

What needs to be pointed out is that the fear is not inflicted by the old-time members but the agents that come here with their manipulative strategies.

I hope that helps.

PS: Yes, your next post will be used to discern your sincerity - but that does not need to "frighten you".

You want to learn, don't you?

PPS: If you are just another agent, then feel free to "fear" this forums capability of intellectual self-defense. Lots of black belts around.

 

[Ruth]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Alex Jones has just released a documentary called TerrorStorm. You can see the clip of hit here:
http:(2slash)www(dot)prisonplanet.com/articles/june2006/230606terrorstorm.htm
From the appearance of the clip, it looks like he is trying to push the angle of 'the secret service/intelligence agencies are behind it....' Specifically British Intel - when it comes to the London bombings and Spanish Intel, for the Madrid bombings. I wonder if these organisations are just being set up as patseys and have been infiltrated already?

 

[The Gardener]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

In my opinion, Harrison's obervations were very accurate: He was exposing just what has been happening with you here. Why do you react with such a sarcasm to that, instead of taking seriously what he pointed to you, using the chance to clean your one day adventure with cassiopaea? I feel you make nothing but eluding his questions (I forgive you mines, I understand they are too much): What was it that triggered your sarcasm? That he was counting how many times you have been reapiting your same line? What is wrong with that? I also find it boring from you.
I wish I could say it is sad to see you cannot address the arguments being presented to you, but if you observe your supossedly "free thinker" actitude, it only has the goal to impose your perspective, and not only about the subjects you think are making you a part of the "trolls".
I don't understand why you got so upset with Harrison. Is it because he dared to challenge your views? Because you don't seem like one who would get upset because someone challenges your views. You seem like someone who can talk in a very mature manner, thinking you have too much experience as to be objected. But not even his opening line was of your taste!
Can you please explain me this? Or this is just an appearance?
Also, it appears you have been victimized here. You sound hurt: What was you did not liked? Me? Harrison? Fifth Way? Anne? Laura? Lisa? Eso Quest? Ark? Ben? mk31? Ryan? Sleepyvinny?
Or was it you do not like to be treated like a man?
Because, you know, a man can handle dissonance, you knew that? But you mock Harrison.
Why is that?

 

[Ryan]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Is there something wrong with me giving my opinion around here? So you guys think Jones is a shill? To that I frankly also say your words: "SO WHAT??"

Except you are not just saying "so what?" to our opinion, you are saying "so what?" to the evidence being provided to back that opinion up. How about we reset the discussion from here on and stick to facts?

And let's take your example of "Alternative Researchers". Just what do you think is a person that does research on "Alternative Research"? What makes you think that anyone that is doing the supposed research and labeling isn't COINTELPRO themselves? What makes you think that anyone involved in this idiotic game of suppositions isn't also living in a house of glass themselves and shouldn't be throwing stones?

This is where you have to make up your own mind in deciding what is Truth. I know that the QFG and SOTT are not COINTELPRO. If you aren't willing to admit that is the case, then you will be continually juggling different perspectives unable to decide what is correct, and this will paralyze you from doing anything.

I'll tell you how this looks from someone that isn't either Alex Jones or WING-TV-- it's idiotic and a complete waste of time and an insult to the intelligence of anyone that is trying to get to the BOTTOM OF THE 9-11 PROBLEMS to think that we have to sit here and separate the wheat from the barley because the barley doesn't happen to like the wheat.

Except it is not just a matter of the "barley not liking the wheat". It is a case of shills attacking others who don't "make nice" and scratch their back by not holding them to account when they spread BS. You seem pretty upset about this conversation being so critical of Jones, yet would we even be having this discussion if Jones was willing to put his own bloated ego aside and get to the bottom of things? You think that SOTT wouldn't be willing to cooperate with Jones if he really was sincere?

I don't have to agree with everything that Jones says to be able to take some of the message and distill the kernel of truth from it. Same for WING-TV. Same for SOTT.

Yes, you very much sound like you are "juggling" perspectives here. You sound like you want to hold on to what Alex Jones is saying, and what SOTT is saying, but now you have a point of dissonance which is making you uncomfortable. Well, how you resolve that dissonance is your own path, but if you decide that Jones is correct and SOTT is just "name calling", does it really make sense for you to expect a warm welcome on this forum?

Whether he is a shill or not is frankly not as important as whether I can take something and use it.

What about others who might not be as discerning as you?

Did you see the posts elsewhere about Thermite being found at the WTC ruins? Guess where I first heard that story? On the AJ radio show.

I wonder if you would have heard about it if the evidence was to do with the Pentagon strike?

Who cares if it did cross your mind? If you're not going to care about what crosses my mind, do you really think that I should care about what crosses yours?

Ok, you are getting emotional here. Take five and have a cigarette or something. :)

I'll tell you why you should care-- because someone that has followed him somewhat closely formed an opinion that may differ from yours. If there is any kind of legitimate research being done, then that opinion should matter to you and to whoever else.

OK, but see it from our point of view. If you join up just as all this stuff is being discussed, put forward a pro-Jones point of view when some serious facts are coming to light about his sincerity, then it looks as if you are just pushing your own "Sacred Cows" onto the rest of us.

In my opinion, which you apparently don't care about, it's a flawed poll. It's like putting up some names and saying "Who is the biggest child molestor" when one of the names may not be a child molestor.

Well, it's not a flawed poll if those people really are shills, is it? Again, you're not going to convince anyone here of Jones' innocence unless you start to address the many facts and questions that have been discussed here.

Now, I know someone here is going to say that I am accusing WING-TV of deliberately misleading people and that is frankly not the case. I just think it's a flawed poll based on an emotional opinion that so far seems to be mostly about his delivery and his demeanor.

Umm, don't you think using a dentist's office as one's address details on one's website seems a wee bit suspicious?

To ME.. a government shill is someone towing the government line. To me, that's people like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Neal Boortz, and the rest of the talk radio cabal. Not one of those names is on that list and I will wager you $10,000 that Rush Limbaugh would top that list in a heartbeat since I am pretty sure that the guy gets his talking points from the White House itself.

Yeah, but come on... I think the "targeted audience" for Alex Jones and SOTT is probably already aware of that, don't you think? ;)

I agree with that and I think Alex is doing this to placate his right-wing Christian outsider audience. One of his biggest supporters is Tex Marrs, who is one of the old-fashioned fire-and-brimstone preacher types that preaches about the End Times and Revelations.

The instant any so called "truth movement" site starts doing things to placate their audiences is the instant they should stop being taken seriously as a "truth movement" site.

Government paycheck? Look man, you can either tell me that he is as good as a shill, a shill, or a government plant. You can't have it all 3 ways.

I think Harrison was referring to possibilities here. We don't know for sure which of the above he is.

This is a U.S. Ambassador saying this, and a wife that is a former spy. Is the information good or bad because it comes from a government source?

I see your point, but are people in the "truth movement" as suspicious of Jones as they are of the US government? It would appear not. And I'll qualify that by saying that I don't think that means they should automatically take SOTT as gospel, either.

Honestly? It's frankly hard to tell at this point. Anyone new that questions anything is viewed as suspect. She has posted about how they have checked IP addresses against databases, spoken to others, and so on. I'm sure my IP address has been run through the wringer by now, along with my handle. Maybe they even found my blog.

Well, if you are not an agent or psychopath, then you should have no worries, should you? (Yes, I know this sounds exactly like something the Bush administration would say. The point is nonetheless valid in this circumstance).

Everyone manipulates. It's a human trait. You're manipulating public opinion for anyone that may happen upon this thread in the future, for example.

Wrong. We are simply presenting things as we see it. People are not obliged to join this forum or discuss things here. There are always going to be blind believers, but we can't help it if they blindly believe the stuff on the SOTT site. That does not mean we are manipulating them. It means they are exercising their free will to blindly believe. The only thing we can do is actively try to discourage that kind of attitude.

Give me a break, please. Talk to me like a man or don't bother. I'm not going to sit here and let someone insinuate anything about me just because they happen to disagree with a point I am making and sit here and think that they can use these sophomoric attacks on me. That's frankly Bush League tactics-- pun intended.

Well, you're making it clear why you like listening to Jones. What you might not grok is that psychopaths are absolute experts in pretending to be "men of honor" in order to manipulate people. That is part of the base of knowledge that the QFG works with. So try not to get too insulted at such things being given no "slack" here. It's nothing personal. The fact is that certain "tests" have to be made, and will be made, in order to prevent psychological deviants ponerising the space here.

So don't get too upset about it. If you are sincere, just be yourself. Things will work themselves out.

 

[vinny]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Seriously, this thread has left me hesitant to post anything for fear that the words that I type may reveal me to be an unconscious cointelpro agent. You guys scratch hard!

the thing is, its like this: anyone can post anything they choose, within the rules of the forum. but they will be called to account on whatever they write. and most important of all it is ok to be wrong, as long as this goes somewhere and doesn't become a blockage.

This is a good thing. It means that everyone has to consider carefully what they say, and networking can provide feedeback where we can point out each others' errors. It also minimises the effects of cointelpro confusion tactics, and shows them up for what they are - in itself, this can be very educational to watch unfold, see the forum over the last couple of days!

we are programmed so hard in school that it is NOT ok to be wrong - this is why it can provoke a strong emotional reaction when we are criticised. if someone can't allow the possibility of being wrong, and then learning from that mistake, and genuinely accept sinceredly meant critical feedback, then how can they actually learn critical thinking, or anything at all? You think Laura never made any mistakes? Reading 'The Wave' and 'The Adventures' articles should illustrate very well that it is all a necessary part of the learning path.

Can you imagine someone who never got anything wrong!?