an issue that remains sin

[truth seeker]

What I first noticed when I started reading this topic is how everyone is being nice to this individual and not seeing that he was pulling everyone in more and more conservation with him, and he changed his statements from emotionally hurting to questioning if he is a psychopath, maybe that was a trick because people think that if he questions his actions then he feels something but that is very hard to sense through forum. Maybe he has serious problems and is sincere but very, very confused, maybe he is a pathological individual or he can be some kind of cointelpro agent that was wasting and vectoring energy of forum members(that was my first thought). He said he doesn't have money but if he really wanted to help himself he would do anything to get it and he was using money on drugs, so his intention to help himself is very questionable. But really I don't know for sure but lot of energy was put in this topic, that is for sure! I don't judge him, yes it's negative(not using word evil because it sound s like it's something that isn't right but for who?), I don't agree with it but he has his free will, yes he can use it to hurt others but it's the way things work. There would be always people and beings like him and even more negative!

I think there were several things going on at the same time. I got the feeling from the initial replies that people did sense that something was wrong but were (in general) "being nice" for several reasons. I'll speak for myself. I was genuinely trying to understand the question being asked. What was not being seen (in my case and perhaps others) was that I was withholding the response I really wanted to post. This conversation would have been very different if it had occurred in my house as opposed to someone elses (meaning Laura's).

Perhaps the best response when seeing these types of post is to simply ignore them but the way I currently see it (corrections please) is that all of us have some responsibility (to both ourselves and forum members) to stand up when we see something wrong. Of course the context of each situation should determine what the action should be and therefore there is no one correct action, but there are many people on this forum who have suffered traumas of many kinds and if they are not at a place in their life where they can determine what is harmful from what is not then someone (anyone) should step in.

Did insipido get a chance to feed? I have no doubt about this but if we don't use the situations that occur in our lives to put into practice what we are learning, I don't know if we can truly understand the nature of what we are dealing with. How many people have told friends and family about narcissists and psychopaths only to have it shoved under the rug because they couldn't see what was happening. It was only when someone had personal experience with these people that they then had the knowledge required to do something about it.

On a separate note, I think that many people(in general, not in the forum) confuse homosexuality with psychopathy or predatory behavior. Because we are made to feel uncomfortable with anything that is not part of the general consensus in society, it is deemed unnatural. I think this is a ploy used to confuse the masses so that those who are psychopaths can hide their behaviors. In short, a scapegoat is needed so that people focus on the lie. Our emotions are used against us so while we are rightfully upset at the action that is taken, the wrong person gets the blame.

Last thought:

And I feel homosexuality very disconcerting lol. thats my opinion. im neither religious or dictating how people should live their lives but merely stating my opinions in a grown up manner. no violence no bullying just opinions. the reason i came to this forum in the first place.

I understand people may oppose my opinions and I am cool with that. but be cool when I dont like yours too :P If not this becomes unfair and stands against everythng this forum is about.

Peace and love

and

quote - This is an interesting observation that catches my eye. How often do very
narcissistic people assert "well, that's YOUR opinion, and this is MY
opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion."

What the heck IS an opinion, anyway? -quote-

Is that your opinion then? idiot?

Seems like this thread has turned into a predator catcher. Nice!

 

[Cyre2067]

Hey webglider, I just wanted to thank you for posting this bit below. It really resonated with what I'm Seeing in my own Work.

What I'm learning here is that there are parts of virtually everyone living today that are seriously out of alignment in some way. I can speak only for myself, but I think I spent a lot of time on the forum monitoring myself so that the parts that I disown wouldn't be shown to anyone else.

The best thing that happened on the forum was when, under a time of great stress, when the buffers broke down those aspects of my false personality started coming out for everyone to see. In other words, the mask came off. Of course everyone addressed what they saw, and it was devastating..

However, something is happening. I have started listening to the programs without identifying with them. This didn't happen all at once. There was a great deal of shame until I realized that everyone was really trying to help me see what they saw: I wasn't rejected or banned.

I was mirrored.

I've come to realize that there is a is a core in me that is authentic and can grow, but there are many destructive programs that have been poisoning my life and I'm beginning to learn how to listen to them and at the same time choose not to act on them. It's amazing how they go on and on in my head, and how awful they are. As I listen to them, I go back to specific points in my life, and I am beginning to understand what exactly made me make the choices I did. It's a pretty agonizing process, very emotional - lots of tears, but there is the promise of liberation and that keeps me going. Maybe I won't be keep repeating the same patterns over and over again, and instead create a harmonious and productive life for myself.

Also wanted to thank Anart and go2 for clearing up the data on the issue. I too had recalled reading (probably in Anna Salter's Predators, Pedophiles and Rapists) that most child-predators are reportedly heterosexual in their adult sex life. Then again, the point that go2 made was that it really doesn't matter in the greater picture, what matters is that we have individuals sexually assaulting children and scarring them for life.

The point I tried to make is that pedophilia is not an issue of homosexual or heterosexual orientation, but a pathological sexual preference for children.

Although, IF people are claiming that 'most pedophiles are homosexuals' it does help to have data to shoot them down with.

Given the subject matter, we shouldn't be too surprised that turtlemayhem showed up to 'give his two cents'. Although I'm kind of glad he did because once you get the flavor deviancy down it's much easier to spot it again, and it gave a lot of us the opportunity to exercise discernment that we had just acquired. Convenient.

MC also nailed it.

Troll.

I appreciated that one-liner MC, it really erks me when someone comes and vociferously claims that my life style is a choice. As if pretending to be straight, hiding in a closet and ignoring our real feelings is a 'choice'. Lying to ourselves about who we are and what we want is a 'choice' that if we 'really want' we can be 'straight' again.

I guess for someone who doesn't know what it's like to have a natural attraction toward the same-sex manifest at puberty, it can make sense. But all the science indicates that homosexuality happens in the human population, just as it does within the animal kingdom. It's there, and while experimenting with it may be a choice for some, it's just the way some of us are.

The story you shared was also interesting Gonzo, it seems more socially acceptable for young girls to experiment with homosexuality nowadays, and it does seem to be that female sexuality is a bit more plastic then male, but then again that's just my experience fwiw. Given what we know about male prison populations it may just be the social stigma associated with male-homosexuality that keeps men's sexual preference clearly divided.

I wanted to also mention that peers of my teenaged daughters (twins BTW) seem to be really experimenting with homosexuality and lesbianism. For a while, and it could still be this way, it was cool to be gay and several of my kids' friends starting acting gay, as if they were trying it out. Most reverted back after a couple of years.

I got the feeling from the initial replies that people did sense that something was wrong but were (in general) "being nice" for several reasons. I'll speak for myself. I was genuinely trying to understand the question being asked. What was not being seen (in my case and perhaps others) was that I was withholding the response I really wanted to post. This conversation would have been very different if it had occurred in my house as opposed to someone elses (meaning Laura's).

Indeed, we all do our best to understand and given the most appropriate response given the situation. 'Being nice', asking for more data were completely legitimate, after his first post. However, it soon became clear he wasn't interested in learning how this forum worked, or interested in accepting feedback, in which case the appropriate response shifts from 'being nice' to 'defending one's soul'. That can take many forms, as we saw.

Perhaps the best response when seeing these types of post is to simply ignore them but the way I currently see it (corrections please) is that all of us have some responsibility (to both ourselves and forum members) to stand up when we see something wrong. Of course the context of each situation should determine what the action should be and therefore there is no one correct action, but there are many people on this forum who have suffered traumas of many kinds and if they are not at a place in their life where they can determine what is harmful from what is not then someone (anyone) should step in.

By all means, if you see something wrong, speak up! At the very worst you may have an emotional program pointed out for you (which is a good thing, while somewhat painful) and at the very best you defend the forum from pathology or pathological thinking. I should also add that the latter happens more often then the prior, as y'all have gotten very good at spotting pathology, and we seem to have one or two pop in regularly.

On a separate note, I think that many people(in general, not in the forum) confuse homosexuality with psychopathy or predatory behavior. Because we are made to feel uncomfortable with anything that is not part of the general consensus in society, it is deemed unnatural. I think this is a ploy used to confuse the masses so that those who are psychopaths can hide their behaviors. In short, a scapegoat is needed so that people focus on the lie. Our emotions are used against us so while we are rightfully upset at the action that is taken, the wrong person gets the blame.

They can, simply because they've heard lines like 'most gays are pedophiles' and they believe it because it comes from an authority and it's the first thing they've heard on the matter. In this case it's not so much a person getting the blame, but an entire population. It all comes back to psychopaths/deviants and how they are able to blend into a group, and then use that group and its associated ideology to justify/hide their pathological behavior/thinking.

Seems like this thread has turned into a predator catcher. Nice!

Heh this forum and it's members are the predator-catchers.

 

[abstract]

I've been mulling over the last few posts, it all seems to make sense. I don't feel I need to re-iderate what was already posted.

The whole scenario was a good exercise.

The world is a crazy messed up place, and i'm very happy we all realize that! :D

 

[Erna]

Well, I realize Freud isn't very popular around here, but I do think he definitely had a few hits with sexuality in particular, namely 'innate bisexuality', a theory on which others have expanded after him, but judging from the few times this came up in conversation amongst friends, the world apparently isn't ready for this theory yet (males especially)...

otherwise if unmatched are accepted as norm

 

[Avi]

Dear Abstract, Gonzo, Nienna Eluch, Puck and All,

This topic is interesting and I want to share a bit, highlighted by the following statements.

Gonzo, the last part of your post got me thinking about homosexuality a bit.

What is up with this whole "people choose to be gay" stuff? I honestly cannot believe that a homosexual consciously chooses to be that way. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Now I could be wrong, but isn't your sexual orientation like, hardwired into your brain from birth? Or how does that work?

Abstract, there are cases when it is a choice. The reasons or motivating factors behind this choice, as it appears to me, are highlighted in Nienna Eluch's post:

But he also told me that she wasn't always a lesbian. She had dated men all of her life until she started dating policemen. She went from one abusive relationship to another - all with policemen. She got beat up so badly so many times that she just stopped having relationships with men and turned to women.

From personal experience I believe Nienna Eluch has really honed in on a key factor here. Some people may disagree and that is fine but I want to point out to Puck and others that I am not claiming YOUR life style is a choice, but some cases.

it really erks me when someone comes and vociferously claims that my life style is a choice.

. . .

and while experimenting with it may be a choice for some, it's just the way some of us are.

Oh, good! You did acknowledge that it may be a choice for some.

When I was 12 my mother became a lesbian. She and my father never married, as she was 21 and he 19 at the time. As fate would have it, I never met my father until 19 myself and spent a total of 10-days over two years with him (two visits) without any contact since. My mother married when I was 5 and it was this man she divorced 7 or so years later. This has had a huge impact on my life for obvious reasons, in that if I view the events of life somewhat simplistically I was abandoned by my father and then later, when my mother married, felt abandoned then too. I remember the wedding and all the strange people, though I could not entirely compute what was happening at the time, the feeling was very much being "abandoned".

Then, in early adolescence, she divorced my step-father (which was a royal emotional mess at the time) and we left "home" to move thousands of miles away with this woman. Again the feeling of abandonment was very strong, even though we lived in the same house, for there was no real communication about all of this it was sort of thrust upon me and I just had to accept it. My mother can be very reserved and guarded when it comes to communication which was frustrating for me as a child for I am naturally very inquisitive and curious but she would rarely really talk about things with me. Anyways, I remember asking her point-blank, trying to make sense of everything "does this mean you are gay?" and she told me, flat out, no. Which of course added to the confusion for my mind tried to "hold on" to the past, yet all the time the reality of life stated differently.

Now this was over 20 years ago and so, slowly but surely, there has been some understanding start to dawn. The feeling of isolation has always been with me in life though and the resistance to "family" while at the same time wanting family more than anything, runs very deep. This is why I love my dogs so much and posted pictures, we are a family. :) There are issues for me personally here which perhaps I will write about at another time in another thread because it is not intended to go off topic and make this all about me.

Over the years in trying to understand myself better, hence influences growing up, I've come to see that in many ways my mother made the choice she did based upon, as Nienna Eluch describes, abusive relationships with men. More emotional and mental than physical. But when we talk about this today it is clear that she did not grow up attracted to women or thinking she might be gay. Instead she grew very, very tired and frustrated with her life and the man she married was quite lazy, irresponsible financially and almost entirely self-centred.

The sad part in this however is that just because she changed gender preferences does not mean she escaped abuse, as the next fifteen or so years she found herself in two PHYSICALLY abusive relationships (also mental and emotional) though this time with women. It all came to a head about 4 years back or so when she nearly died due to health complications, underwent a hysterectomy and at that point terminated the relationship which was so draining.

She is today with a 3rd woman and though at face value it does appear she is much happier and even thriving I have noticed some of the same tendencies in the relationship dynamics as before, mainly surrounding issues of control.

Sorry for the long post and maybe TMI but I wanted to share, from experience, a case example if you will of one woman choosing to be gay. As a male I cannot blame her reasons for when I look out into the world today I am often ashamed at the lack of sensitivity and even cruelty a lot of men display.

That is, in my eyes, the general rule today, though there are exceptions to the rule. Like those warm souls we find on SOTT! :)

One last point is that my aunt (my mother's youngest sister, she has two sisters and two brothers) over the past 4 or so years has also started to live a lesbian lifestyle. This aunt is only 3 years older than me and we lived together for a while growing up. In fact, when she left is when my mother divorced.

At any rate, this is another example where she never exhibited the tendency or behaviour in childhood, teenage years or her twenties, but over the past few years has decided to be gay. I cannot claim to know the reasons (i.e. choice or somewhere inside always felt this way) as I have not talked with her about it, but based upon my knowledge of her life and relationships I would say it is also based upon the desire to simply be accepted and loved, in a loving relationship rather than what she often experienced with men, namely frustration and abuse.

So based upon personal experience close to home I do not see homosexuality as being a case in all instances of "hardwired into your brain from birth".

FWIW, they both share the same birthday though seventeen years apart! Isn't that interesting?! And no I do not imply it is "astrological", just a coincidence.

With kind regards,

~leoursa

PS - this topic has morphed from its inception and just wonder if the topic header can be changed, or perhaps threads moved, as "issues of sin" is a dis-service to the topic at hand.

 

[Erna]

[quote author=Leoursa]
[quote author=Nienna Eluch]
But he also told me that she wasn't always a lesbian. She had dated men all of her life until she started dating policemen. She went from one abusive relationship to another - all with policemen. She got beat up so badly so many times that she just stopped having relationships with men and turned to women.
[/quote]
From personal experience I believe Nienna Eluch has really honed in on a key factor here. Some people may disagree and that is fine but I want to point out to Puck and others that I am not claiming YOUR life style is a choice, but some cases.
[/quote]

I just want to point out that someone dating or marrying the opposite sex is no indication of their sexual orientation. Many anonymous surveys were done on 'heterosexual' marriages with people admitting (a surprisingly large percentage) that they were actually gay, and that they also will never admit to it publicly.

Someone dating men all her life, and suddenly 'turns', doesn't necessarily mean she was heterosexual and one day 'chose' to be gay all of a sudden. She might have been gay all her life. I don't know too much about it being a choice, or genetic or due to circumstance, I just know that a heterosexual relationship is no indication of someone’s sexual preference. As long as it is frowned upon in our society, that’s how long you'll have gay people in seemingly heterosexual relationships.

I'm quite convinced that my ex is gay. He's married to a woman today. I am also quite sure he will never admit to being gay, because I know his family too well. He'd rather die than admit to it.

 

[Nević Nenad]

This makes me wonder is there among us pathological persons who convinced even themselves that they are not (me included)

I don't get the impression that you are a psychopath, Avala although you may have destructive programs that at some point you begin to listen to and neutralize if you haven't begun to already.

What I'm learning here is that there are parts of virtually everyone living today that are seriously out of alignment in some way. I can speak only for myself, but I think I spent a lot of time on the forum monitoring myself so that the parts that I disown wouldn't be shown to anyone else.

True Webglider :), but I am working on it. And much self-pityness too.



I think that sexual orientation is irrelevant. Be it choosed or born with, whatever. What is important is that two souls (or more) are in the same vibes. Everything else is just a cosmetic (sort of).


And as Laura said once (can’t remember exactly where, at the moment, so I am write it by the memory) relationship of such two souls can be hot; can be warm, but never cold.

 

[Avi]

Hi E,

I think I understand your point but are you sure about the way you've phrased this? It seems dogmatic.

You are saying that because of the tendencies of society to frown upon anything that is not the norm there are many people in pseudo-relationships, as evidenced by the anonymous surveys you cite. And apparently your strong conviction concerning your ex-husband.

Yet to say that dating or marrying the opposite sex is no indication of a persona's sexual preference is incorrect. Perhaps it is not the sole indicator or should not be taken as the whole indicator, but to say that it is NO indication implies to cover the cases of those who ARE heterosexual.

Semantics, but if we are trying to see objectively they certainly play a role.

[quote author=Leoursa]
[quote author=Nienna Eluch]
But he also told me that she wasn't always a lesbian. She had dated men all of her life until she started dating policemen. She went from one abusive relationship to another - all with policemen. She got beat up so badly so many times that she just stopped having relationships with men and turned to women.

From personal experience I believe Nienna Eluch has really honed in on a key factor here. Some people may disagree and that is fine but I want to point out to Puck and others that I am not claiming YOUR life style is a choice, but some cases.
[/quote]

I just want to point out that someone dating or marrying the opposite sex is no indication of their sexual orientation. Many anonymous surveys were done on 'heterosexual' marriages with people admitting (a surprisingly large percentage) that they were actually gay, and that they also will never admit to it publicly.

Someone dating men all her life, and suddenly 'turns', doesn't necessarily mean she was heterosexual and one day 'chose' to be gay all of a sudden. She might have been gay all her life. I don't know too much about it being a choice, or genetic or due to circumstance, I just know that a heterosexual relationship is no indication of someone’s sexual preference. As long as it is frowned upon in our society, that’s how long you'll have gay people in seemingly heterosexual relationships.

I'm quite convinced that my ex is gay. He's married to a woman today. I am also quite sure he will never admit to being gay, because I know his family too well. He'd rather die than admit to it.
[/quote]

 

[abstract]

Leoursa, there is a minor correction i want to make for this:

Abstract, there are cases when it is a choice. The reasons or motivating factors behind this choice, as it appears to me, are highlighted in Nienna Eluch's post:

I agree that is is a choice to an extent, just like everything else.

However, I was referring to a few discussions that i've overheard before, mostly christians, and most of us know enough to know that christians think up all sorts of ludicrous things.

Many christians actually BELIEVE that being gay is chosen like you choose what clothes to wear in the morning!! They think people wanna be gay just for no reason, that it's satan controlling them or whatever. THAT mindset specifically, is what i absolutely despise.

Yes, true, you can choose to be attracted to the same sex on purpose, but how often is this the actual situation? All i was trying to point out was that the world is not black and white. :D

 

[Galaxia2002]

I think that sexual orientation is irrelevant. Be it choosed or born with, whatever. What is important is that two souls (or more) are in the same vibes. Everything else is just a cosmetic (sort of).

I agree with you Avala, and I know an good example. I have a friend (woman) who always defined herself as heterosexual, one day she receives a phone call by mistake and she started to talk with this unknown and a friendship began, then quick they fall in love each other. This all happened by phone. This person kept at the beginning to be a male but my friend found out that he was really a "she" with masculine voice when they met. The tale is a bit long but the point is that my friend accepted the woman despite the lie and today they live together. What is difficult to understand in conventional terms is that my friend affirms that she really doesn't like women, only this woman she lives with her, and still she feels attracted by men. She tell me that she feels complete with her partner and that she found in this person things that she never had found in other and that she ever imagined to be in love of a woman.

 

[Erna]

Hi E,
I think I understand your point but are you sure about the way you've phrased this? It seems dogmatic.

Hi Leoursa, I think my approach to this is the opposite of dogmatic. For me it’s more dogmatic, even shortsighted to assume someone’s sexual orientation based on their type of relationship, when we know the pressure society exerts.

You are saying that because of the tendencies of society to frown upon anything that is not the norm there are many people in pseudo-relationships, as evidenced by the anonymous surveys you cite.

Yes, but I’m not comfortable with calling it pseudo-relationships, essentially saying it’s a fraud. These people can make quite a success of this, since relationships can take many forms. It’s that societal ‘stamp of approval’ that plays such a big role, it doesn’t compensate for the diverse range of possibilities in between ‘right’ and ‘wrong’.

Yet to say that dating or marrying the opposite sex is no indication of a persona's sexual preference is incorrect. Perhaps it is not the sole indicator or should not be taken as the whole indicator, but to say that it is NO indication implies to cover the cases of those who ARE heterosexual.

Semantics, but if we are trying to see objectively they certainly play a role.

Yes, I would imagine that the majority of heterosexual relationships are amongst heterosexual people, but as I demonstrated, the nature of relationships can’t really be an indicator if it’s not all encompassing.

I think that sexual orientation is irrelevant. Be it choosed or born with, whatever. What is important is that two souls (or more) are in the same vibes. Everything else is just a cosmetic (sort of).

I’m with you on that. For all we know we swap between sexes continuously during reincarnation anyway. :) Our society has unfortunately made this a big deal, disrupting many lives.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

What a fascinating thread this is!

Ok—I have something I’d like to discuss regarding one’s sexual orientation. Specifically, my own sexual orientation.

A few years ago, I started to question the fact that I did not really KNOW what my sexual orientation was. Basically, I admitted to myself and to my spouse that I thought I am bi-sexual.

Because I know I have a sexual attraction towards women AND men. Although I’ve never been with a woman before, I know that deep down inside, I do have a sexual attraction for them physically speaking same with men.

But I have always thought that due to my upbringing, culture and the culture shock I experienced (moving from Iran to Canada) the idea of being sexually attracted to women was not something I would have even thought to explore while younger, simply because culturally speaking it was out of the question.

But after years of trying to get to ‘know myself’ I have come to realize that; sex does NOT matter for me in terms of a partnership between myself and another human being, whether that person was male or female.

If that person possessed the qualities of honesty, integrity, wanting to work on themselves, bravery, loving, caring, sensitive, and empathic individual, I would not care if that person was male or female. I would be able to form a sexual and loving relationship with that person.

Why am I sharing this? Well because while reading this thread, I found myself questioning my idea of being bi-sexual. I thought to myself, am I really just “gay” or “straight”? And I even asked myself, “am I normal?”

But what is “normal”? Because I don’t think being “normal” means being gay or straight. Does it? Doesn’t “normal” define people who are not pathological? Does it matter what their sexual orientation is?

I have also known people that have ‘turned’ gay. My old boss who was also in an abusive relationship with many males became a lesbian. She now lives with her partner for the past 6 years. So does this mean that she was always gay and never embraced her ‘true’ self? But what if she was not in abusive relationships? What if she was with good and sensitive men? Would she still ‘turn’ gay?

In the end, I think that possessing pedophilic thoughts is a pathological issue. Not one of sexual orientation. And one’s sexual orientation should never be of question, but one’s pathological state should, osit.

 

[Erna]

But after years of trying to get to ‘know myself’ I have come to realize that; sex does NOT matter for me in terms of a partnership between myself and another human being, whether that person was male or female.

If that person possessed the qualities of honesty, integrity, wanting to work on themselves, bravery, loving, caring, sensitive, and empathic individual, I would not care if that person was male or female. I would be able to form a sexual and loving relationship with that person.

Why am I sharing this? Well because while reading this thread, I found myself questioning my idea of being bi-sexual.

Well, this thread caused me to read up on the matter a little, so I found this: VICE VERSA: Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life.

Vice Versa: Bisexuality and the Eroticism of Everyday Life in which she argued that most people would be bisexual if not for "repression, religion, repugnance, denial" and "premature specialization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality

I find this plausible, but people (at least those in my circles) take offence to this, which caused me to do a little introspection why I don't take offence. Am I just more 'liberal' (I hate that term by the way, because I have known too many decadent people excusing their decadence by calling themselves 'liberal'), no that's not it.

She has seemingly taken the baton from Freud and ran with it, but I think it would be an interesting read.

 

[anart]

Hi E,

I think I understand your point but are you sure about the way you've phrased this? It seems dogmatic.

Just for another perspective, I don't think it came across as dogmatic at all. In fact, according to my personal life experience, E's statements are correct and stated fairly clearly.

You are saying that because of the tendencies of society to frown upon anything that is not the norm there are many people in pseudo-relationships, as evidenced by the anonymous surveys you cite. And apparently your strong conviction concerning your ex-husband.

Yet to say that dating or marrying the opposite sex is no indication of a persona's sexual preference is incorrect.

Actually, in the context in which she stated it, it is not incorrect. I have personal experience of the truth of her statements - suffice it to say that 'it happens all the time', as it were - and I think that was basically her point. I don't think she meant that all people who marry the opposite sex are not heterosexual - or that who one marries is not any indication at all of sexuality - at least that's not how I understood what she said.

Perhaps it is not the sole indicator or should not be taken as the whole indicator, but to say that it is NO indication implies to cover the cases of those who ARE heterosexual.

Semantics, but if we are trying to see objectively they certainly play a role.

As I mentioned, I don't think that was what she was saying, at least that's not how I understood it, but, make no mistake, there are a lot of gay people who marry the opposite sex for many different reasons and live lives of quiet desperation.

 

[Laura]

But after years of trying to get to ‘know myself’ I have come to realize that; sex does NOT matter for me in terms of a partnership between myself and another human being, whether that person was male or female.

If that person possessed the qualities of honesty, integrity, wanting to work on themselves, bravery, loving, caring, sensitive, and empathic individual, I would not care if that person was male or female. I would be able to form a sexual and loving relationship with that person.

I think that Deedlet is onto something here. Based on long experience and observation, it seems to be pretty normal for sexual attraction to be aroused by persons of either sex in persons of either sex for any number of reasons.

One thing I have observed again and again is that "attraction" that is read by the brain/body complex as "sexual" is not necessarily that, it is simply a deep soul recognition that activates the creative/feminine aspect. Very often this attraction that is read/felt as "sexual" is taken to be just that, and the person acts on that sexually when that is a big mistake. It could actually be a brother/sister soul recognition, or a parent/child soul recognition, etc, and was never intended to be a sexual relationship which can muck things up a great deal in real life. Because, of course, once you act on those attraction things, other chemicals get going, you are in the soup, and all bets are off.

In other words, feeling an attraction that "feels" sexual toward a member of the same sex does not mean you are homosexual or even bi-sexual.

There have been situations I've observed/worked with, where an individual was attached by an entity with strong female expressions and once the entity had been released, many "feminine" expressions that had been bothering this guy just evaporated. In another case I worked with, the homosexual client revealed a past life of terrible abuse as a female at the hands of men, and was so scarred in her soul by this that when she was born in this life, she shut out all consideration of men as beings she could relate to in any way, much less sexually. Interestingly, once this past life was worked through and resolved, she opted for a tentative heterosexual relationship. I didn't follow up after that so can't say how that worked out.

Then, there are brain tests that determine an individual's attraction preferences on another level which suggest that such is often hard-wired into the brain for one reason or another. This could be related to genetic anomalies, hormonal conditions in utero, past life situations, or even attachments. It's really a subject of great complexity.

But, the bottom line, as Deedlet pointed out, is the soul relationship. If one encounters that perfect match in another soul, (assuming it really is a perfect match and not just a "good match"), then what to do? What if that individual is the same sex and you are absolutely adamant that you are heterosexual and nothing can change that? Or what if that person is the opposite sex and you are absolutely positive that you are sexually a homosexual? That would be really tough, eh?