Are 50% of Alien Abductees Homosexual?

[allenb]

Notice that the reference is to recounting a hypnosis session. "Harder asked her if it had been a G-Y-N examination" One wonders, of course, if this was merely reporting what was said during the session - that is, that Harder asked this question by using the letters in that way, or if it was, as Allen perceived, the result of some "issue about sex" with Cone and Randle.

So, my impression of this is simply that it is a non-issue.

Ah, you're right. I didn't take it as that on first reading because he wasn't directly quoting what Harder had asked. In that case, writing G-Y-N would have been obvious. Probably is a non-issue.

My interpretation of that probably comes from how I've always perceived the use of GYN in the medical field as kind of strange. When I saw Randle's spelling out of that, I went searching dictionaries to see if there actually was an acronym I wasn't aware of. The spelling out of those three letters has always struck me like parents spelling out the word c-o-o-k-i-e around a toddler.

 

[Laura]

In summary, if my favourite past-time – as an alien – was to eat equal amounts of estrogen and testosterone, I’d probably eat a gay person.

Hmmm... maybe you have hit on something here? And maybe there is a "plan" to actually "create" a larger population of homosexuals by various means so that their increasing demands for "harvesting hormones" can be met?

 

[Z...]

In summary, if my favorite past-time – as an alien – was to eat equal amounts of estrogen and testosterone, I’d probably eat a gay person.

Hmmm... maybe you have hit on something here? And maybe there is a "plan" to actually "create" a larger population of homosexuals by various means so that their increasing demands for "harvesting hormones" can be met?

But how do you create larger population of homosexuals and by what means?!

I think what Adam said doesn't make a lot of sense as I am quite positive that sexual orientation doesn't play any role in secretion of androgens or estrogens in both males or females.
I.e. homosexuals don't necessarily secrete any more estrogen then regular heterosexual men. Neither do heterosexuals produce more testosterone then homosexual men.

But maybe this needs to be researched more as I am not 100 % positive about it.

 

[Laura]

But how do you create larger population of homosexuals and by what means?!

Well, let's look at sexuality itself. As certain research indicates, sexual orientation may very well be just another program that is laid down in us during our development. The only exceptions that seem obvious to me are individuals who may have had many past lives as one sex and then, suddenly, get born as the opposite sex. These individuals might be considered "born homosexual."

First of all, re-read the post that includes the quotes from "Desire and Anomie in The Turn of the Screw" in my first post in this thread. Notice where it says:

"that in order for desire to exist in any coherent, active, and potentially satisfiable form, it must embed itself in a fully social matrix, which is to say, become directed toward objects conventionally defined and symbolically coded as desirable by human society" [...]

For Durkheim and others, the socially authorized symbolic objects of desire did not in effect limit the avenues of human feeling, but rather constructed those avenues, mapping routes through what otherwise would be a chaotic wilderness of emotions and impulses. In this view, the norms of "civilized" culture were understood not as restraints, as Rousseauistic romanticism would have it, but rather as tools, a kind of technology of satisfaction which provided the necessary matrix for human desires and their fulfillment. [...]

Desires of all kinds (including sexual ones) are experienced as a valences of identity, and are not only "trapped in the economy of the sign," as Lacan says; they are in fact created by that economy, their expression and satisfaction dependent, as Jay Clayton puts it, on "embodiment in social and historical forms" [...]

For Durkheim individual states of conscience arise "not from the psychological nature of man in general, but from the manner in which men once associated mutually affect one another," [...]

the semiotic terms that determine self-consciousness include desires and objects-- including sexual ones [...]

Victor's behavior suggests the incoherency of his sexual identity at two different levels. First of all, his anarchic symptoms suggest a kind of bodily semioclasm: he is unable to experience himself as a "sign," a socially constructed combination of bodily signifiers (including sexual desires and responses) and underlying biologically determined signifieds (his procreant organs and capacities); but secondly, Victor's "semiotic emergency" (Lacan's phrase) is caused by a larger disruption--that of the relational nature of sign to sign.

Deprived of initiation into the system of representations on which the social and interpersonal dimensions of sexuality are contingent, Victor finds it impossible to construct an individual sexual self-concept as well. [...]

Lacan's psychoanalytic model posits as a stage in the development of the psyche a "mirror" image, "through which the I is precipitated in a primordial form," a stage which is followed by a second and dialectical element, its "social determination." The first stage Lacan calls "idealization," and the second "differentiation," with individual self- consciousness a result of the interplay of the two.

Next, let's consider what Gurdjieff said about sexuality that was quoted on another thread:

Phillippe: Why does the major part of human suffering revolve around love and things of sex?

M. G. Why this question? It does not concern you personally. Ask it in another way:

Phillippe: Why are the major part of the associations, which interfere with the work, sexual associations?

M. G. This question is subjective. It is not so for all men. It is an abnormality which is a result of infantile masturbation.

But what is the connection between this and suffering. There is not trace of suffering here.

Each man has in him three excrements which elaborate themselves and which must be rejected. The first is the result of ordinary nourishment and eliminates itself naturally, and this must be each day, otherwise there follow all sorts of illnesses. (The physician knows this well.) For the same reason that you go to the bathroom for this maintenance, you must go to the bathroom for the second excrement which is rejected from you by the sexual function. It is necessary for health and the equilibrium of the body; and certainly it is necessary in some to do it each day, in others each week, in others again every month or every six months.

It is subjective. For this you must choose a proper bathroom. One that is good for you. A third excrement is formed in the head; it is rubbish of the food impressions, and the wastes accumulate in the brain. (The physician ignores it,just as he ignores the important role of the appendix in digestion, and rejects it as wastes.)

It is not necessary to mingle the acts of sex with sentiment. It is sometimes abnormal to make them coincide. The sexual act is a function. One can regard it as external to him, although love is internal. Love is love. It has no need of sex. It can be felt for a person of the same sex, for an animal even, and the sexual function is not mixed up there. Sometimes it is normal to unite them; this corresponds to one of the aspects of love. It is easier to love this way. But at the same time it is then difficult to remain impartial as love demands. Likewise if one considers the sexual function as necessary medically, why would one love a remedy, a medicine? The sexual act originally must have been performed only for the purpose of reproduction of the species, but little by little men have made of it a means of pleasure. It must have been a sacred act. One must know that this divine seed, the Sperm, has another function, that of the construction of a second body in us, from whence the sentence; Happy he who understands the function of the "eccioeccari" for the transformation of his being. Unhappy he who uses them in a unilateral manner.

Aboulker: Why do religions forbid the sexual act?

M. G.: Because originally we knew the use of this substance, whence the chasteness of the monks. Now we have forgotten this knowledge and only remains the prohibition which attracts to the monks quantities of specific disorders and illnesses. Look at the priests where they grow "fat like pigs", (the concern about eating dominating them) or they are "skinny as the devil" (and they have inside little love for their neighbor), the fat are less dangerous and more gentle.

http://www.gurdjieff-bibliography.com/Current/index.html

Now, if you will read this little book published on the web here: http://www.restin.7h.com/

You will find that the author has done some research in order to solve her own emotional issues and quite a few of her remarks relating to sex and sexuality, attachment, infatuation, love, and so on, are very important. This material is directly related to not only what Gurdjieff has said, quoted above, but also the matter of sexuality being a program circuit that is laid at an early age, and the possibility that abduction experiences at times of imprint vulnerability could definitely influence an individual's sexual orientation.

Consider also the wide promulgation of "gay pride" and "gay rights" that manifested at about the same time that the whole SRA and alien abduction phenomenon was cranking on. Most of us already have the feeling that we are all being manipulated by forces we cannot see or understand, and that those forces work through the humans in charge of our governments and media.

It's funny that so many people can see that 911 was a set-up, the JFK was murdered as a result of a conspiracy at high levels, but cannot consider the idea that the anti-smoking campaign also has sinister implications. At this point, we are wanting to look at the idea that the "pro-gay" movement of the 70s and 80s may also have had sinister implications.

Now, keep in mind that there is absolutely no criticism in my mind regarding anyone's sexual orientation. As Gurdjieff points out,

The sexual act is a function. One can regard it as external to him, although love is internal. Love is love. It has no need of sex. It can be felt for a person of the same sex, for an animal even, and the sexual function is not mixed up there. Sometimes it is normal to unite them; this corresponds to one of the aspects of love. It is easier to love this way. But at the same time it is then difficult to remain impartial as love demands. Likewise if one considers the sexual function as necessary medically, why would one love a remedy, a medicine? The sexual act originally must have been performed only for the purpose of reproduction of the species, but little by little men have made of it a means of pleasure.

People are way too identified with their bodies, their sexuality. Get this very clear: your gender and sex itself has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU - your ESSENCE. It is all part of the False Personality.

 

[nf3]

Consider also the wide promulgation of "gay pride" and "gay rights" that manifested at about the same time that the whole SRA and alien abduction phenomenon was cranking on. Most of us already have the feeling that we are all being manipulated by forces we cannot see or understand, and that those forces work through the humans in charge of our governments and media.
...
People are way too identified with their bodies, their sexuality. Get this very clear: your gender and sex itself has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU - your ESSENCE. It is all part of the False Personality.

Well there's one possible connection right there. Create the gay pride movement on one side, the anti-gay movement on the other and suddenly everyone's anti-this and pro-that, but more importantly everyone is forced into even deeper identification with their sexuality and their bodies. Keeping everyone body-centric, with that particular vehemence that sexual energy always adds to the picture, could be part of the overall 'frequency fence' preventing any significant increases in awareness.

 

[Ruth]

The size of our sample was 316 individuals. They were selected because they claimed to have been abducted and "true" researchers had validated their claim. Today, for some reason, everyone is screaming for our demographics, though in the past no one really cared about these numbers, random sampling or even the scientific method.

Maybe it should be pointed out here that African-Americans, Hispanics, and Asians are vastly under represented in the abduction population. Again, you would expect that all racial and ethnic groups would be represented as they appear in the general population, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

Now, in what has become the strawman of our research, we found a disproportionately high number of homosexuals in our sample. One hundred and seventy-four of them expressed homosexual tendencies. [..] And no, we did not investigate to learn the accuracy of their claims.

So, this is as good as research gets into alien abductions? I know it must be a hard topic to research, but you've got to start with some things that aren't variables and can be considered reasonably defined, static or objective. A couple of things stand out even to my untrained mind.

Who are these "true" researchers and how do they validate an abductees claim - does anyone know?

They claim that 'today all people care about is demographics...' and yet they claim that certain ethnic groups are under-represented in the sample. Why? Not explained. Well, I suppose the type of ethnic background that people come from is, at least, easily discernable.

Is a person who 'expresses homosexual tendencies' actually a 'real' homosexual? To use a religious metaphor: is a person who claims to be a (fill in the blank),
a) a practicing member of this religion
b)a member of their church, or
c)a religious leader in that church? What does it mean to be a (fill in the blank)? It may not be all about the one thing.

This is a bit of a can of worms because then you have to define not only what a gay person is, but it would also be useful to know what gender these people are... was there any data on subjects gender?

I think it is a bit of an assumption to say that just because a certain percentage of the people in the study 'expressed homosexual tendencies' automatically means they must be homosexual. It could be an anomaly (which they have made no attempt to investigate or explain). And if it is, then why is it the only one that is being studied, and are there others (such as the problem mentioned with relationships and other 'unusual' behaviour)?

 

[Laura]

Well there's one possible connection right there. Create the gay pride movement on one side, the anti-gay movement on the other and suddenly everyone's anti-this and pro-that, but more importantly everyone is forced into even deeper identification with their sexuality and their bodies. Keeping everyone body-centric, with that particular vehemence that sexual energy always adds to the picture, could be part of the overall 'frequency fence' preventing any significant increases in awareness.

Oh, no doubt about that! Because we sure do see a whole lot of heterosexuals totally identified with their sexuality and sexual orientation as a consequence! I mean, geeze, all the ads for Viagra and that nonsense.

In his book, "Hostage to the Devil," Malachi Martin recounts a case of possession of a homosexual individual that was directly related to his "gender confusion." It's worth reading if you can filter out the church stuff and replace it with "the principle of creativity" vs "principle of entropy." Anyway, in that account a remark is made that sums up the essence of the matter:

A bird doesn't fly because it has wings; it has wings because it flies.

 

[Rabelais]

A book published in 1980, The Tujunga Canyon Contacts, by Ann Druffel and D. Scott Rogo, caught my eye a year ago because I had lived in Big Tujunga Canyon for a while in the late 1960s. It is out of print, but I found a used copy.

The book centers on the investigation of a lesbian couple who lived in the canyon and began experiencing adduction events. It goes on to take in what would have to be a cluster of "alien" abductions involving predominantly lesbian couples, some never having met the others, but all living in the Tujunga Canyon area. These events occurred between 1953 and 1975. The chronicling of these events characterize what would seem to be a "contagion" effect of abduction among a lesbian demographic located in a rather compact geographical area.

While this neither validates or confirms the hypothesis discussed in this thread, it does seem relevant to the issue.

 

[Laura]

I read the "Tujunga Canyon Contacts" some years ago but had forgotten that the protagonists were lesbian. What I do remember is that it was one of the strangest books I've ever read. Creeped me out as bad as "The Mothman Prophecies."

Now that you mention it, I think I'm going to have to re-read it to see if there are any clues.

 

[Annette1]

This article, as countless others regarding sexuality of any type, always seem to raise more questions than are answered. Within my lifetime and limited education, I’ve yet to find any research on human sexuality that doesn’t raise more questions than are answered. To dice it up into “hetero/homo” sexuality makes things even murkier.

IMHO, it seems that there is no “agreed upon” base from which to work from as a starting point, save “heterosexuality” IS the “natural” state of being for humans and one of the main basis for this belief comes from the bible and or religious training and beliefs. But is “heterosexuality” really a viable basis?

Many of us here are willing to consider the “hyper dimensionality” aspect of the order of the universe. Clues and direction have also been provided to us from 6th density. With these two factors included, I’ve considered the following possibilities.

Perhaps “The Fall” involved the “splitting” or division of the human entity. A single being, divided into two parts; male and female. Perhaps sexual intimacy is some sort of primal effort (though futile) to become “one” again. Then, we might want to consider that we are all inherently “bi-sexual” and we “chose” to express our sexuality through “hetero or homo” intimacies.

For ages and ages, “homosexuals” have been “demonized” and “marginalized” as a group worldwide, again largely through religious means. Why is that?? OR what purpose(s) does it (homosexuality) not serve/serve or possibly hinder for hyper dimensional forces? Also, choosing NOT to express oneself through sexual intimacy means or equates to “impairment”??

This article/research, flawed as it appears, does raise LOTS of questions. But for those of us who are considering more factors than the authors of the article, it may provide us with more clues. More learning, more fun.

 

[Z...]

Well, let's look at sexuality itself. As certain research indicates, sexual orientation may very well be just another program that is laid down in us during our development. The only exceptions that seem obvious to me are individuals who may have had many past lives as one sex and then, suddenly, get born as the opposite sex.

yes, this "imprinting" theory seems to be holding water very well in many cases its just that I am trying to contemplate why would homosexuals be more desirable for feeding then then heterosexuals.
I am pretty much sure we cannot simply just boil it down to hormones. I looked around a bit today as this intrigued me, it seems there were many studies trying to prove biochemical differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals but none of them succeded so far.
There is some evidence that points out to certain structural differences in the brain but no evidence with regards to hormone levels.

Consider also the wide promulgation of "gay pride" and "gay rights" that manifested at about the same time that the whole SRA and alien abduction phenomenon was cranking on. Most of us already have the feeling that we are all being manipulated by forces we cannot see or understand, and that those forces work through the humans in charge of our governments and media.

It's funny that so many people can see that 911 was a set-up, the JFK was murdered as a result of a conspiracy at high levels, but cannot consider the idea that the anti-smoking campaign also has sinister implications. At this point, we are wanting to look at the idea that the "pro-gay" movement of the 70s and 80s may also have had sinister implications.

Definitely, I had the same thoughts, but what would be the motive, i.e. ultimate goal of such agenda?
So far I cannot come up with anything sensible enough.

Now, keep in mind that there is absolutely no criticism in my mind regarding anyone's sexual orientation.

never had any doubts about this

For ages and ages, “homosexuals” have been “demonized” and “marginalized” as a group worldwide, again largely through religious means. Why is that?? OR what purpose(s) does it (homosexuality) not serve/serve or possibly hinder for hyper dimensional forces?

Its funny cos the same could be said for the Jews.
In addition certain fractions of Jews claim to be chosen people and it seems certain fractions of homosexuals have the same claims

 

[Approaching Infinity]

In chapter 6, Randle et al offer evidence they say refutes the “alien abduction” hypothesis: the similarities with fairy abduction, medieval incubi and succubae, demon contact, etc. As an explanation for the medieval phenomena, Randle suggests that the original accounts were the result of repressed sexual feelings of nuns and monks who, for example, blamed nocturnal emissions on semen-extracting demons. “[F]or the next three hundred years, thousands of men and women would be tortured and executed for reminding the church of sexual pleasure” (p. 109). In this way, a mundane psychological explanation (the sexual fantasies and rationalizations of repressed clergy members) starts the spread of tales of night-time sexual violations on behalf of imps and demons.

Randle seems to think that the very close resemblance between the historical and contemporary accounts shows that abductions do not actually take place. If it obviously wasn’t demons, it obviously can’t be aliens, would seem to be his logic, which is somewhat faulty, as I’ll try to show.

He quotes one researcher, Bullard, making the point that abductions are often not fulfilling or enjoyable (on the contrary, they are invasive and cold), so it is unlikely that they are fantasies. Randle responds predictably that the results ARE positive for abductees: they become the center of attention. “They are sought be investigators, researchers, others with similar tales, and even television talk show hosts.”

This is like saying that “alleged” rape victims, in the absence of physical evidence, are probably experiencing fantasies which will bring them attention. The subsequent attention of police investigators, sexual abuse researchers, contact with other rape victims, and even a possible appearance on Oprah are the real positive results of so-called “rape.”

Randle is force-fitting the data to support his hypothesis. The fact that abductees, in many cases, end up receiving attention is not evidence that the abductions themselves are fantasies. In fact, they seem more like real trauma.

The fact that alien abduction corresponds remarkably with folklore is taken as evidence that abduction is merely folklore, ignoring what seems to me to be more obvious: that “folklore” is an attempt to the same phenomenon as “abduction.” Whatever the “aliens” really are, the medieval mind saw them as “demons” from the underworld, while the modern technological mind sees them as “aliens” from the far reaches of the galaxy.

Randle repeatedly comes back to this point, as if he had already successfully argued that the “fairy” aspect of abductions is evidence that they are not real events. Interestingly, Randle never critiques Vallee’s hypothesis that the similarity of the two is evidence for their REALITY. But perhaps the idea of a multi-millennial control system that conforms to the cultural milieu with which it interacts is too “far out” for Randle? Maybe that’s why he doesn’t even mention it.

Ironically, from skimming through the rest of the book (which I have yet to read, so I could be off) Randle talks a lot about false memory, but uses the stereotypical appearance of the aliens in each period of abduction history (for example, the sci-fi-esque space suits of the early occupant cases) as evidence of “folklore.” But wouldn’t an “alien” race capable of inducing paralysis and amnesia simply use such images as screen memories? I don’t see how this is evidence that abductions do not take place.

Randle writes: “So Bullard is probably right. Abduction tales do not conform to the folklore tradition. However, alien abduction tales do mimic much of the traditional folklore. This cannot be denied. To suggest otherwise is to miss the real point.”

But I think it is Randle who is missing the point. Couldn’t the similarity between folklore and abductions be because they are describing the same phenomenon? Randle provides no good explanation for the creation of a folk tale; so again, he doesn’t really prove anything because he doesn’t even make an argument. It’s obvious that tales change and are mythicized as they are passed to different regions, and through time. This is one aspect of folklore that Randle mentions. This deviates from the abduction reports because of the nature of global communication: reports are put into print, or film, and are accessible immediately around the globe. But doesn’t this deviation from the “mythicization” of folklore suggest that there is a common phenomenon which provides the original seed of each story?

 

[the_hammer]

I am pretty much sure we cannot simply just boil it down to hormones. I looked around a bit today as this intrigued me, it seems there were many studies trying to prove biochemical differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals but none of them succeded so far.

I too have been looking a bit into this, since our environment has suffered a massive change in hormones in the recent decades due to all the artificial estrogenes which has been dumped in our environment (which binds to our fatty tissues and to our SHBG and which doesn't break down as easily as our natural hormones). This leaves limited space for our natural sexual hormones on the SHBG and therefore allows the natural sexual hormones to travel freely in higher numbers.

Research has been done which showed, that quite a high percentage of lizzards (I think it was alligators in Florida which lived in a lake where the sewage from some kind of chemical factory was led into) would change sex from female to male when being exposed to these artificial estrogenes.

Don't know wether this is a desireable effect for them or wether this can be linked to a higher percentage of homosexuals in abductees if indeed this is true?

 

[Pierre]

During WWII, homosexuals like Free masons, Communists or Jews were the main targets of Nazis. According to the Cs it was a mere rehearsal

The final reason for secrecy is to expand the breeding program, to integrate laterally in society, the aliens must make sure that abductees mate with non-abductees and produce abductee children.' Now, this seems to suggest that there is a particular bloodline that is susceptible to...

A: We have told you before: the Nazi experience was a "trial run," and by now you see the similarities, do you not?

One of the main objectives of the nazis was to eradicate a specific bloodline (correlated to the semitic bloodline) because this bloodline was a threat to their domination plans. So Nazis started capturing, exterminating Jews, they also conducted sterilization programs.

But the Nazi empire finally collapsed, living some carriers (Jews and non-Jews) of the bloodline alive . In addition, Jews were not exactly representing this bloodline :

What is this blood of the covenant?
A: Has to do with bloodline.
Q: So this symbolized the bloodline of the Jews?
A: No.
Q: What bloodline are we talking about here?
A: Aramaic/Aryan.
Q: Are you saying that the Jews are Aramaic/Aryan?
A: No. Jews are not bloodline categorizable, per se.

So the problem was still there : How to ensure that those carriers won't reproduce and how to inhibit their "rebel" potential". One solution was to gather a lot of semitic people in the same place (bringing semitic Arabs and semitic Jews in MIddle East and destroying the whole area)

However this Middle East destruction would not solve the problem of the non-semitic carrier of the bloodline. So here's a paranoid hypothesis :

4D STS conducted a long terme abduction campaign. These abductions had to happen during 2nd stage imprinting period thus allowing to shift the sexual orientation of the abductee toward homosexuality.

This campaign had to target carriers of the bloodline (and maybe some other threatening individuals).

Meanwhile a long term conditioning program would be conducted in order to devilize homosexuality (through churches, schools, main stream medias,...)

Thus those threatening people, having become homosexual, would generally be inhibited (feeling of guilt, inferiority,...), they could be monitored (implant ed during abduction) and in addition they would be harassed by the population all along their life. So their "rebelling" capacity would be dramatically reduced.

Furthermore they would be unable to bring their bloodline onto the next generation through a kind of psychological sterilization : homoexuality.

 

[bobo]

In one of his interviews, Zulu shaman, Credo Mutwa, admitted that he has become homosexual AFTER his abduction experience. Given the possibility that many abductions are multiple, and that abductees do not remember most of them, would it be too far to assume that the homosexuality could be ‘ACQUIRED,’ or better to say, ‘INDUCED,’ when an individual was abducted in an early age (a victim would consider himself as being born as homosexual)?!

In that case, it would not be a surprise if among the abductee population there was a bigger percentage of homosexual individuals.

Now, there is a question if the homosexuality is at the abductees only a side effect of the process of alien abductions or is it deliberately induced?
Or, is the homosexuality one of the ‘desired features’ (from the alien’s perspective) for the human beings, similarly as STS psychological (psychopathological) traits?

**

And a slight digression. A few years ago a friend of mine asked me if I watched a TV program where a researcher claimed that an excessive exposure of fetuses to ultrasound can cause homosexuality (and left handedness)?! Well, I did not, and I have not heard of that before, but I would not be surprised if it was so. And if it was so, then we can ask another question, what percentage of homosexuality in human population is really ‘natural’ or ‘congenital’, or what percentage of that is artifically ‘induced’?! We are probably not likely to find answers to these questions, but there could be here some food for a thought.