Are Hindu Gods same as 4D STS Lizzies or Orions?

[Gaby]

Some of Zoroaster's main tenets seem to be: Right mind, right speech, right speech deeds. That our world was a creation of Ormazd/Ahura Mazda and it was the followers obligation to go forth into the world, be productive and create abundance. Incorporated into this was that one had to exercise moderation and reason, and not the extremes of asceticism nor excess, and for one to be charitable with one's bounty with those most deserving. There was even a part in Dawn which described enjoyment and pleasure, within this frame of moderation using reason, as a totally natural, even reverent, experience, if we consider that it relates back to god.

Here are some related quotes from Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism:

 

[Ursus Minor]

	Zoroastrian Tradition	Vedic Tradition	Comments
Ritual	Ritual exist, but it is simple representation ( earth, sun, animal products) done by individual himself	This is priest directed, can be confusing and costly.
Hierarchy	Not so much hierarchical at least in Zatha's perspective and some later texts seems to suggests there may be hierarchical as Veda's	Kashtriya, Brahmana, Vysya and Sudra and untouchables	Major difference
Good and Evil	Exist: Deva's bad , Asura's good	Exist: opposite.	Vedic Gods( Indra, wind, fire etc.) are different from the modern gods ( Rama, Krishna, Vishnu, Siva) though they have some side roles.
Choice	unmediated choice, individual chooses ( I guess according to owns own conscience) to the service.	More Ritual based; Priest driven
Deities	Monotheism	Polytheism	Other Monotheistic religions ( Judaism, Islam or Christianity)
Cleanliness	Very important in all aspect of the planet	Not much mentioned
Aim	To reform Nomadic warrior like pastorals to one location based non warrior style who strive for righteousness	In veda's it has Dharma. Which actually changes for each caste, duties etc.

It also explains couple of points:

Date	Event	Comment
6243 BC- ( C's Time line (TL) 8243 Years Ago)	Aryans Invaded India. before that Asian tribes and #3 prototype; We are 4b,c,d. Rama was Tribal leader under the influence of confederation	It was not clear of Rama's Timelines after very later or before. Tribal by in its nature, it is local event not a national event.
4098 BC 6092 yr ago- (1994 sess)	city of Mohenjo Daro – built by Reptilian Beings- people were taken to other planets. Last time they inhabited 3065 years ago(1994).	It lasted 3000 years . Traditional interpretation is Hinduism might have come from here. They do have caste system, but their god is bearded guy called Pasupati- though considered as Siva, looks are very different. There is speculation that Mohenjo Daro is destroyed by nuclear blast based on the partially glassed stones.
3131BC 5129 yrs ago:	"nordic covenant came to existence , - pact between Mostly between humans and humans, but some of the other. To safeguard the secret of Bloodline extends off the planet and	Not sure of this covenant has any thing to do with this topic.
3218 BC/ 3217/3216	The city of Baalbek - built by Atlanteans and Sumerians -they created Huge building for huge people which they genetically engineered- but failed- stopped because of venus passage. 3216 BC: Venus first appearance and pass. 3217 BC 5211 yrs ago: life of Hermes Trismegistus - Traitor to court of Pharoah Rana ( Egyptian leader of spiritual covenant ). Broke covenant of spiritual unity of all peoples in area now known as Middle East. Broke covenant of spiritual unity of all peoples in area now known as Middle East. power hungry ,inspired by white brotherhood (which is created by lizzies)	First Venus Passage
2676 BC:	Exodus in Bible happened.- last passage of the comet Venus- 7 passes Venus make through the solar system before it was precipitated into a regular planetary orbit-At that time cometa Venus pass close to the earth and cause disruption	Venus's Last passage
1644 BC 1644 to 1628 BC:	Last return of comet cluster - returns around 3600 yrs
1110BC 3108 yrs ago(1998 sess)	Angkor Wat - Reptelians built it - people moved to other planets.	Another incubator lab to airlifted to other planets. We didn't know how long they incubated to airlift and how frequent. But Cambodia history (as per Wiki) seems to start with 50 AD with Hindu Kings and Chinese visitor in 250 AD wrote of fantastic structures and advanced civilization. so Angkor Wat of 12th century is not correct. But the real question is - If Angkor What created in 1110BC and first empire started in 50 AD, Did Indian got Vishnu from Angkhor Wat? . True, Indians are busy in the trade routes in the Indian oceans. But some how that information is not there
1071BC 3065 yrs ago (1994):	Last in-habitation in Mohenjo Daro - people moved to other planets.	It is interesting when Mohenjo Daro is winding up, Angkor Wat pops up

(...) It looks LOT to dig through.

Fine piece of work, seek10.

Assuming that there are about four centuries missing though, the dating of a lot of events in the distant past becomes somewhat confusing...

For example the "Last return of comet cluster - returns around 3600 yrs" (1644 BC to 1628 BC) must then be considered to have happened only 3,200 years ago. With the C's having determined the "Nordic Covenant" at 3131 BC, have they already corrected the "time"? 🕰

I wonder which timeline the comet cluster is considering actually, since it was said to be due every 3,600 years.

Maybe developments on the BBM are heating up so much that it won't be able to wait another 400 years and quite frankly neither will I.

 

[Laura]

For example the "Last return of comet cluster - returns around 3600 yrs" (1644 BC to 1628 BC) must then be considered to have happened only 3,200 years ago

Well, if you add 1644 BC to 2019, you get 3663.

Like, overdue?

 

[Jones]

I remember even in medieval Europe soceity was divided into tripartite order, between those who prayed, those who fought, and those who worked. This division apparently has quite deep Laurasian roots, as stated in Witzel's History of World Mythology:

"We can observe this developmen (of Laurasian myth-inspired state societies), happening almost in front of our eyes, among the Neolithic food-producing societies of the eight islands of Hawai’i. They were united under a common leader, King Kamehameha, only at the end of the 18th century. At the time of Captain Cook’s visit (1778), the islands still had their own chieftains, and a clear division of classes existed: kahuna (priests), ali’i (nobles), kanaka (commoners), and slaves. The ali’i and kahuna guarded their rights vigorously, employing a taboo ( kapu ) system that threatened instant death for violators."

The tripartite order that you mention is still reflected currently and is represented in the preamble of the Australian Constitution which traces back to old English Law:

".....on the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual, the Lords Temporal and the Lords Common".

The constitution itself organises government into three branches - The Parliament, The Executive, and the Judiciary. So Cook would have been familiar with tripartite order, though the chain of command that he followed would probably have come through the Executive.

 

[Ursus Minor]

Well, if you add 1644 BC to 2019, you get 3663.

Like, overdue?

As they say:

Never assume always check...

 

[seek10]

Veda's doesn't have Mahabharata (mainly Krishna ) and Angkhor Wat has Ramayan and Mahabharata. It has all those Garuda's, snakes etc. The similarities between Angkhor Wat and current Hindu temples are very striking but they are very small scale. This makes me wonder whether Angkhor Wat is template delivered hundreds of years in advance for Indians to emulate later in architecture? Sounds Wierd.

I looked for more evidence to continue the thought process that Angkhor Wat as template for the Post Vedic restructuring of Hindu religious scriptures. Problem with this gigantic religious structure built ( double height of the london tower in mere 35 years with a laser tight precision dated in 1100 AD) on a water table by people who lives in bamboo structures, looks to me like mental gymnastics of the historians National Geographic video

Traditionally, it was told that Ramayan was written by Saint Valmiki and Veda's splitting in to 4 pieces and writing of Mahabharat are attributed to Saint Vyasa as the events happened during their life time and they are the participants of the story they wrote.

Vyasa appears for the first time as the compiler of, and an important character in, the Mahabharata. It is said that he was the expansion of the god Vishnu who came in Dwaparayuga to make all the Vedic knowledge available in written form which was available in spoken form at that time. He was the son of Satyavati, adopted daughter of the fisherman Dusharaj and the wandering sage Parashara, who is credited with being the author of the first Purana, Vishnu Purana)

MahaBharata

The evidence of the Puranas is of two kinds. Of the first kind, there is the direct statement that there were 1015 (or 1050) years between the birth of Parikshit (Arjuna's grandson) and the accession of Mahapadma Nanda (400-329 BCE), which would yield an estimate of about 1400 BCE for the Bharata battle. However, this would imply improbably long reigns on average for the kings listed in the genealogies. Of the second kind are analyses of parallel genealogies in the Puranas between the times of Adhisimakrishna (Parikshit's great-grandson) and Mahapadma Nanda. Pargiter accordingly estimated 26 generations by averaging 10 different dynastic lists and, assuming 18 years for the average duration of a reign, arrived at an estimate of 850 BCE for Adhisimakrishna, and thus approximately 950 BCE for the Bharata battle

There are 18 major purana's and 18 minor purana's where All the Hindu gods with weird body configurations/decorations comes up. one example: ganesh : elephant headed man, with large belly rides on tiny mouse). Each god has their vehicles - siva on cow, vishnu has eagle, another has goose, one has peacock. Siva wears snake to the neck. Weird List goes on. All these comes from Puranas

There are 18 Maha Puranas (Great Puranas) and 18 Upa Puranas (Minor Puranas), with over 400,000 verses. The first versions of the various Puranas were likely composed between the 3rd- and 10th-century CE. The Puranas do not enjoy the authority of a scripture in Hinduism, but are considered a Smriti.
...
Vyasa, the narrator of the Mahabharata, is hagiographically credited as the compiler of the Puranas. The ancient tradition suggests that originally there was but one Purana. Vishnu Purana mentions that Vyasa entrusted his Puranasamhita to his disciple Lomaharshana, who in turn imparted it to his disciples, three of whom compiled their own samhitas. These three, together with Lomaharshana's, comprise the Mulasamhita, from which the later eighteen Puranas were derived.
...
These five or ten sections weave in biographies, myths, geography, medicine, astronomy, Hindu temples, pilgrimage to distant real places, rites of passage, charity, ethics, duties, rights, dharma, divine intervention in cosmic and human affairs, love stories, festivals, theosophy and philosophy.The Puranas link gods to men, both generally and in religious bhakti context. Here the Puranic literature follows a general pattern. It starts with introduction, a future devotee is described as ignorant about the god yet curious, the devotee learns about the god and this begins the spiritual realization, the text then describes instances of God's grace which begins to persuade and convert the devotee, the devotee then shows devotion which is rewarded by the god, the reward is appreciated by the devotee and in return performs actions to express further devotion.

The Puranas, states Flood, document the rise of the theistic traditions such as those based on Vishnu, Shiva and the goddess Devi and include respective mythology, pilgrimage to holy places, rituals and genealogies. The bulk of these texts in Flood's view were established by 500 CE, in the Gupta era though amendments were made later. Along with inconsistencies, common ideas are found throughout the corpus but it is not possible to trace the lines of influence of one Purana upon another so the corpus is best viewed as a synchronous whole.

If we see the above picture, major hindu religion contents are there. If I see the pictures, original actors/script/action ( vishnu, Krishna, Rama - Krishna with flute , Krishna killing kamsa , Vishrupam ) are exact same, though there are indications of morphing over the time based on the 9th , 19th scripts found later . It seems to hard to find which one is first with whether Purana's first or Mahabharat first. Probably it doesn't matter as all these epics on the wall of Angkhor Wat.

Is the architecture that is attributed to SuryaVarman II is a later addition in 110AD ( some body carved it like wood) or probably, it is a story of completely some body else? Who ever calculated the date of Anghkor wat pushed it 2000 years forward ( Based on C's date) consciously or unconsciously hiding the fact that reconstruction of Hindu scriptures are from Angkhor Wat rather than some imagination.

On the Programming front:

Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarians: More than 70% are non Vegetarian in India.

Overall, the percentage of non-vegetarians across India has dropped from 75% in 2004 to 71% in 2014. Telangana has the highest proportion of meat-eaters in the country with almost 99% of its residents being non-vegetarians, a Registrar General of India survey of people aged 15 years and above has revealed. An almost equal percentage of men (98.8) and women (98.6) are non-vegetarians in the state.

Here is a 2016 govt. data in a map

COW Business: A retired professor who wrote called " The myth of Holy Cow" contends that Cow sacrifice and eating Cow products are common during vedic period and this sacredness only got introduced during hindu rennaisance period around 400 AD.

The Wall Street Journal:

Where does the Hindu belief in the sanctity of the cow come from?

Dwijendra Narayan Jha: There was no sacred cow concept in the Vedic period [around 800-1500 B.C.] in India.

The Vedic Aryans sacrificed the cow in religious sacrifices and ate its flesh.

The cow was most frequently used in similes and metaphors in the Vedic texts and these may have been taken literally in the course of time.

While this may partially account for the supposed sanctity of the cow in later centuries, there is much in ancient Indian texts to suggest that cow killing for sacrificial purposes, continued side by side.

WSJ: When did Hindus start to eschew beef eating?

Mr. Jha: It was only in the early Christian centuries, around the middle of the first millennium A.D., that the Brahminical texts began to discourage and even disapprove of cow slaughter.

This change of attitude can be understood against the general background of the transformation of the rural society in post -Mauryan centuries, especially from around the middle of the first millennium A.D., which ushered in a phase of unprecedented agrarian expansion. Brahmins emerged as a feudal land owning class and, unlike in the earlier period, became more and more involved in agriculture. This led to the recognition of the pivotal role of animal husbandry, and the disapproval of killing of cattle by the Brahmins. All this is encapsulated in the concept of kali age in which many age-old practices came to be forbidden.

to be continued...

 

[thorbiorn]

Well, if you add 1644 BC to 2019, you get 3663.

Like, overdue?

2019 reminds me of this session which mentioned the problems with our calendar.

Session 12 July 2014

Session Date: July 12th 2014 Laura, Ark, and Andromeda at the board Pierre, Perceval, Tomek, PoB, Kniall, Chu, Atriedes, Data, No-man's-land, Parallel, Mr. Scott, Alana, Timotheos Q: (L) Today is July the 12th, 2014. It is Caesar's birthday, or close enough. I mean, how the hell do you really...

cassiopaea.org

Q: (L) So, when they have Halley's Comet coming at these vastly expanded periods, then those are the periods where years have been added?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And in some cases they're added, and in some cases they're subtracted. It's very strange. Like they can add 10, and then subtract 5. Overall there's a definite, I think that... I think that enough has been added that we're off by 200 or...

(Pierre) Maybe you can ask this question. Caesar was born roughly 2,114 years ago according to our official calendars. In reality, how many years ago was Caesar born?

A: 1635. {Difference of 479 years}

Q: [General oo-ing and ah-ing] (Perceval) The whole thing went so horribly wrong, we were thinking how did it last another 400 or 500 years?

(L) It didn't.

(Perceval) Yeah, it didn't. It lasted maybe 100.

(Pierre) Or, there was a collapse in 400 or 500 AD, and most of the added chunks are between 400-500 AD, and 1000 AD, as Fomenko suggests.

A: Check the artifacts. In some cases there were multiple "emperors" at the same time rather than sequential.

From the perspective above how would one find out the number of years since the last passage of the comet cluster. Halley's comet has a cycle of 75-76 years and 3600 years if the period has been stable would be 48 cycles, unfortunately the records do not go that far back. If one checks the Wiki the records do not go that far back. The English, Russian and German Wiki claim back to 240 BC: On the German Wiki there is a table: Halleyscher Komet – Wikipedia

25. Mai 240 v. Chr. 13. Oktober 164 v. Chr. 6. August 87 v. Chr. 11. Oktober 12 v. Chr. 26. Januar 66 22. März 141 18. Mai 218 20. April 295 16. Februar 374 28. Juni 451 27. September 530

15. März 607 3. Oktober 684 21. Mai 760 28. Februar 837 19. Juli 912 6. September 989 21. März 1066 19. April 1145 29. September 1222 26. Oktober 1301 11. November 1378

10. Juni 1456 26. August 1531 27. Oktober 1607 15. September 1682 13. März 1758 16. November 1835 20. April 1910 9. Februar 1986 28. Juli 2061 (Vorhersage)[6]

 

[Ursus Minor]

Vegetarian or Non-Vegetarians: More than 70% are non Vegetarian in India.

Here is a 2016 govt. data in a map

I have found this commentary on quora.com...


Varun Gowda, studied Psychology
Answered Nov 5, 2018 · Author has 66 answers and 64.3k answer views


"Just to let you know, ours is a Hindu family which doesn't eat Halal meat for religious reasons.
Hindus aint supposed to eat halal. But the industry is so much taken over by halal followers that its tough for any non- halal meat eater to manage to find a good Hindu Cut meat (jhatka) in any good restaurant.
Hence most of us are limited to home made which we get cut by Hindu butchers, limited to our family functions or eggs/fish.
We are now as good as vegetarians because of forced Halal meat in market. Am sure many like us would add on to vegetarian community in upcoming years."

 

[seek10]

to be continued...

Meat Production in India
India ranked 5th in meat productions.


Buffaloes in India contribute about 31% of total meat production. The contribution by cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and poultry is 31%, 5%, 10%, 10% and 11%, respectively. The share of bovine meat is about 62% as against the small ruminants of 15%. The share of red meat is 77% , which is in line with other countries.

Gandhi's take on Cow:

On 25 July 1947, in a prayer meeting, Gandhi opposed laws that were derived from religion. He said, "In India no law can be made to ban cow-slaughter. I do not doubt that Hindus are forbidden the slaughter of cows. I have been long pledged to serve the cow but how can my religion also be the religion of the rest of the Indians? It will mean coercion against those Indians who are not Hindus." According to Gandhi, Hindus should not demand cow slaughter laws based on their religious texts or sentiments, in the same way that Muslims should not demand laws based on Shariat (Quran, Hadith) in India or Pakistan

Despite, Gandhi's take, many of the states banned the Cow slaughter decades back- some 3 or 4 decades back. random Cow vigilante lynching is a problem well before Modi came to power but it became a sensational news only after Modi became PM. Even Wiki paper tries to put the blame on Modi ignoring the victims before him -20 (2011), 15( 2012), 17 (2013)- I will skip long list of links. The more Modi became a popular, more that noise grows. But that is big topic itself and one thread here.

With all the worship in the Bhakti movement and rituals and dietary habits of Hindus, I'm wondering if the Hindu scriptures and are a work of 4D STS?

I does look like 4D STS work. Thank you for opening the thread. In my experience, there is more than usual religiousness exist and it could even be noisy display due to high population density. All sorts of variations exist in teachings, costumes, - good, bad, ugly and even stupid. It is not that people doesn't see it, but lack of alternatives I guess.

In West, you have materialism in the name of "reasoning" which doesn't completely explain the complexity of life and West comes with their Christianity that takes the form of religious conversions which is not taken in good spirit there. Those insecurities takes the form of Hindu revivalism.

C's , Laura's work and Forum is completely beyond all the things in the mainstream religions.

Spiritual Scenery

In india, you can see all sorts of variations, main stream religious Hindu folks combined with Yoga, Ayurveda, commentaries of the Hindu texts and others that border psychological advice, People who talk about "God as one" irrespective of religions ( like MK Gandhi with motto of "Serving people is serving God") , popular busted demi-gods like Saibaba, Nityananda,"One movement" etc. who show tricks as miracle with strong political connections. Being not tightly controlled, many things can coexist in India, but can be heavily misused too( ex: corruption).

It is not the deities that keeps popularizing the religion, but the activities of Saints/fakirs/Sufi's that convert the religious texts to solutions to the practical problems as a service. They do heavily use the religious structure in this purpose .

I found what P.D. Ouspenky wrote in in search of Miraculous is the best answer I could find.

1. Main stream Religion : Lot of Gods in all sorts of disciplines, costumes and variations etc. People can choose what ever they want

As a well-known scholar of Hinduism, who was also a missionary in India for a while, Klaus K. Klostermaier observes: “Many Hindu homes are lavishly decorated with color prints of a great many Hindu gods and goddesses, often joined by the gods and goddesses of other religions and the pictures of contemporary heroes. Thus side by side with Śiva and Viṣṇu and Devī one can see Jesus and Zoroaster, Gautama Buddha and Jīna Mahāvīra, Mahātmā Gandhi and Jawaharlal Nehru, and many others. But if questioned about the many gods even the illiterate villager will answer: bhagvān ek hai — the Lord is One. He may not be able to figure out in theological terms how the many gods and the one God hang together and he may not be sure about the hierarchy obtaining among the many manifestations, but he does know that ultimately there is only One and that the many somehow merge into the One.”

2. Those who are tired of main stream Religion - Esoteric side ( Not sure Esoteric is correct or not, using it lossely )

• Way of Fakir : Impressed by other Fakir's actions and followed by blind imitation out of necessity or simply carried away by the situation without any proper structured teaching.
• Way of Monk: Strictly under the guidance of the teacher, with a focus on emotional center.
• Way of Saint: Under the guidance of the teacher with focus on intellectual center.

Other variations: G talked about people who are not interested in spiritual, but subjects of hypnotism of others who can do physically tough things like fakirs who lays down on the bed of sharp nails. You can also see fakirs lying at the side of road oblivious to the surroundings in the dirtiest areas. It could be very overwhelming to figure out what is what.​

Western adaptations based on the pieces of Hindu religion: The zeal with which Western agencies took it (ex: Hare Ram, Hare Krishna), endless Fancy Yogas variations with commercial products, rigidity with which they created Vegetarianism is a Western choice is surprising for me. They did it because it suited their motives. In the Western mechanized commercial world, order is very important. So you introduce some thing in supply chain, it becomes very visible. I think that where the disconnect is.

For example, My Doctor in India always said to me "eat meat". I used to settle with eggs, until i came out of the house. I always felt surprised what I see the fervor with which Western people promote vegetarianism, bhakti in US in the name of India. Consider that India is a forest, these are only some trees.

Is mantra chanting and bhakti/Bhagvad Gita a real medium for spiritual growth or does it just feed the 4D STS?

This is very complicated question with so many words with varying meanings and answers. C's already said Knowledge ( Information utilized) in its all encompassing meaning gives progress. So any idea of one thing or one means does gives spiritual growth is probably over simplification and a trap.

In India, It is common feeling among many who looked for order - "how this country works". With Modi, things are rapidly becoming orderly, that raised another question in my mind for a while. Is Modi another pied piper for 4D STS? I read and read for answer to this question. I wrote it here. I couldn't find any thing in that direction. He looked to me like another rare Eastern leader( Putin, Xi etc.) came out of non-traditional poor background bringing some balance in a world when the West is melting down. But, we never know.

 

[Agron]

Excellent excellent thread for my questions on Hinduism!! I hit likes on most informative posts

Cheers everyone