Are you a "drama queen"?

[TheSpoon]

I was reading a book by a psychologist recently and he suggested that the need for ongoing stimulation in life from dramas etc occurs in persons who do not have very well formed ego-selves and need for stuff to be constantly happening to feel "alive". Such a person will trigger dramas unconsciously to "get attention", because if they aren't getting attention they feel like they are going to disappear.

Could you say what was the book please Laura?

Thanks!

 

[Laura]

Yes , the extreme cases i've encountered, are impulsive, attention seeking , extremely manipulative people, and will always tell you how they want you to regard them or how they want you to think of them, very narcissistic, and play the pity card all the time.

The lady I referred above would always make the puppy face, cry and tell me how good of a person she was and how god sent her here to help others, and that she only wants the good and god is on her side and she prays, and that she is a woman with high standards and integrity,
i kid you not. Those were her catch phrases.
They always tell you how they want you to think of them and how bad the world is , sometimes in the same sentence.

Wise words here; and how often we get caught in this trap.

 

[Laura]

I was reading a book by a psychologist recently and he suggested that the need for ongoing stimulation in life from dramas etc occurs in persons who do not have very well formed ego-selves and need for stuff to be constantly happening to feel "alive". Such a person will trigger dramas unconsciously to "get attention", because if they aren't getting attention they feel like they are going to disappear.

Could you say what was the book please Laura?

Thanks!

"Psychopathy" by Carl (Karl) Frankenstein. Quite a fascinating read since it gives a lot of clues as to where Lobacewski's ideas came from (that type of school/inquiry/theorizing). There were obviously quite a few anti-Freudian types working on the problem back in the day but their work has been almost completely sidelined because of their "genetics is important" stance.

Alongside of psychopathy he must, naturally, discuss disorders that develop in people who are not essentially psychopathic and it sure gives one a lot of food for thought.

You can read his works made available on this site:
http://en.carl-frankenstein.com/HTMLs/page_691.aspx?c0=419&bsp=3

 

[Arwenn]

~snip

Here is a relevant quote:

The 'drama queen', psychologists define Need for Drama as a compound personality trait
http://www.sott.net/article/315949-The-drama-queen-psychologists-define-Need-for-Drama-as-a-compound-personality-trait

As psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman from the University of Pennsylvania, who was not involved in the research, explains, after submitting almost 500 volunteers to the test, they found that those who scored highly on the NFD scale were more likely to display so-called dark triad personality traits, such as non-clinical psychopathy, non-clinical narcissism, and Machiavellianism.

High NFD individuals also showed a higher tendency towards gossiping, neuroticism, and an external locus of control - a feeling that you can't control the negative things that happen to you, even if you actually did play a role in making them more likely.

A high need for drama coupled with a strong sense of victimhood and very impulsive behavior has very devastating effects for the person and her or his relationships. It is a source of suffering, but deep down inside, they are concerned only about themselves and how they see the world, forcing other people to conform to that view and support their victimized status. At some level, there seems to be some sort of enjoyment in the whole dynamic. These people have to stir things up from time to time out of no good reason at all, except perhaps the need to feed. They can't help themselves. It seems like there is a malignant force working through them as there is really no one home to control or regulate the impulses and the emotions.

~snip

I scored a low, though I do agree with the others it's a very short test, and perhaps not the most accurate.

Interesting article Gaby, thanks for posting it. I am coming across more and more people (young and old) who thrive on drama. And at the end of the day, the people who create all this drama care not a whit for anyone but themselves, and perpetuate the image that they are kind, caring, concerned individuals who are truly the victims here (all BS, all impression management)...when in actual fact, they are the aggressors! They have no desire to learn and grow and help others, instead they are ingrained in their distorted views of reality which is narcissistic, selfish, manipulative and basically dark. They are on the downward spiral to use the term from the book Darkness Over Tibet.

And the biggest problem for empathic individuals, is believing them, and worse- FEELING SORRY FOR THEM, because they come across as genuine people in need. So we help. And we get sucked in. And the only thing I've learned is to look at their actions rather than believe their words.

I also think that they thrive not only on the resultant drama, but the enjoyment of manipulating people, fooling them with their impression management. It takes a certain level of skill to do this, to maneuver people to create the drama. For them, the whole thing is a work of art. They are not happy to simply be, they need to create mischief. Like it says above, it seems like there is a malignant force working through them... 4D STS maybe (harvesting misery, fear, unhappiness etc)??

 

[Michael B-C]

I scored low but suspect if I had taken this test a decade or so ago - and been honest with myself (which I wouldn't have been) - I would have scored much higher. I looked at the questions though and smiled, recognizing a few familiar adversaries from the past.

I've lived through drama as a profession (obviously starting out as a drama queen) and that experience has knocked most of it out of me and the work of this forum has thankfully helped a great deal in gaining a fuller perspective and taming all but the embers of the beast. I trust! Becoming conscious of it and working on it is key. There are clearly personality disorder issues here with the more acute types but for many others it is most likely I think a stage of reaction to external influences in early childhood, especially the process of narcissistic wounding.

As Laura states above

the need for ongoing stimulation in life from dramas etc occurs in persons who do not have very well formed ego-selves and need for stuff to be constantly happening to feel "alive". Such a person will trigger dramas unconsciously to "get attention", because if they aren't getting attention they feel like they are going to disappear. This drama can be any type of thing even including screwing up royally so that everybody has to give attention to a situation to fix it. So it's not necessarily just somebody "stirring the pot" consciously.

These appear to me to be classic signs of narcissistic wounding - because the child receives absolutely no validation from the narcissistic parent, but is rather told day in day out it is wrong - and inherently wrong - it must eventually seek it elsewhere by creating fake 'dramas' to give validity to an otherwise empty core. When puberty kicks in followed by early adult life, it is easy to get caught up in a sea of fake emotions and hormonal reactions which help to turbo boost this stage. If it gets stuck as a soap like pattern - as Mr Cyan pointed out this is for so many their benchmark of 'normal response to any touchstone - it gets stuck as a life forming pattern that only self-work will shift.

As others have said hypersensitivity also most likely plays its part whether as a latent or learnt reaction to wounding. I also wonder if the excitability trait that Dabrowski speaks of can play a part, especially if under lying issues of disintegration are not acknowledged and dealt with.

 

[Anamarija]

I have also scored "very low", maybe because I'm getting older and wiser (I hope) and I'm trying to avoid any form of stress/drama.

But, in the past, I was a sucker for love drama. That was my breakfast, lunch and dinner.

btw. even, when I check some of my posts on the forum I can see some of the contour that can be understood like 'drama queen' state. Maybe I'm to open and sincere in the wrong way .

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I scored average. Those of you who have had face-to-face interactions with me know that I was a MASSIVE drama king. I say "was" because I have had the wind taken out of my drama sails pretty thoroughly over the last few years by external events. This thread has provoked some thoughts, but I am not entirely sure how to order them. I am going to try though.

This comment below struck me:

Interesting; it makes sense to me. Just like we're programmed to seek food, warmth, or shelter, we can be programmed to seek drama in order to maintain emotional balance. It becomes an addiction/craving we have. This need for drama reminds me of an article about narcissism I read a while back:

I have been mostly working on changing the way I react to things and not thinking so much about "why" because I can think about "why" all day long and still act like an asshole. Please excuse my language. I just spent about a minute trying to think of a polite word with the same connotation and came up with nothing.

As an English-as-a-foreign-language teacher in an environment where I had bright, curious young people as students, who had the fear of being incorrect in front of others drilled into them, I had to try to dismantle the traditional classroom atmosphere. I was thus able to channel my dramatic flair into a positive direction. I would use exaggerated and dramatic behavior to sort of overturn the "scholarly" atmosphere. It pretty much worked. Even in my adult classes, I found my students were starting to "experiment" with their English. For me, I started to build a different, more impersonal relationship with my external behavior by having found a positive channel for my shenanigans.

One thing I found interesting about this online test is its association of thinking people are talking about you (read "paranoia") with this drama tendency. At age 20, I thought I was the center of the room, that everybody must be talking about how awful I am. I knew even then that it was an unrealistic view, but it easily swept me away. Reading Hesper's quote above marks the first time that I have thought that the dramas I use to create externally could have been a mechanism to re-establish some kind of internal equilibrium. It rings true, but it is such a new idea that I am not sure what to do with it.

A couple of years ago, someone close to me died and it pûnched the dramatic part of me square in the gut. Additionally, I am making a career change and am working in new environments. I have a work-study contract, so I go to school a few days a week and work the others. I work in a large but family-owned company. My boss and immediate colleagues are super intense people to the point of aggression. The dramatic part of me wants to be offended by this behavior. BUT IT IS NOT PERSONAL!!!

I don't want to work indefinitely in such an environment, but I feel strangely blessed to be in an environment where drama-making is simply not the correct reaction.

This thread plus my current experiences make me think about how I have always wanted to be taken seriously. The dramatic flair was about being noticed, but as dysfunctiuonal behavior tends to do, my drama-making had exactly the opposite effect.

I can't say I know the correct way to act right now, but I am starting to be able to isolate that dramatic tendency in me as simply one of those thousand I's we have. Just this week, I found that when my boss came at me like a derailed train, I took a moment to breathe and tried to listen to what he was saying. He is not actually personally offensive, just super intense.

I guess what I am trying to say is that drama-making can be about protecting oneself. Like the book "Narcissistic Family" spoke of, a certain behavior had a desired effect at some point, and we keep doing it. Because it worked at some time in the past, we conflate the FEELING of being protected with the desired effect even though we may have just diminished our standing.

Thanks for the thread!

 

[Scottie]

First, my score was low. That was funny, because I would classify myself as "in the middle". I can be pretty dramatic, but not as bad as some people I've met.

Second, the test was so short and simple as to be totally useless, IMO.

Third, I think there are different levels of Drama Queeniness. The worst kind is the manipulative type that affects others strongly in a negative way. Then there is another kind that sort of affects others, but not so negatively. And then there is the self-drama kind, where it's like, "Oh my god I'll totally DIE if I don't have drama somehow! I know: I'll beat myself over the head for something totally insignificant! Phew..."

Probably there are all kinds of variations and in-between modes, as well.

In all cases, it's pretty useful to vocalize it, as in the I'm Gonna Go Eat Worms and Die routine. But even then, that can still affect others negatively depending on how it's done. And it's not easy to do - in any case!

I think that pretty much everyone is a drama queen. Sure, there are differing degrees... But the more I think about it, the more it seems that we're Drama Machines. It's like we thrive on it: this constant need for emotional conflict, or emotional craziness disguised as rationality, etc. How many times have you said something that had totally rational-sounding reasons, but the source was really emotional craziness inside? A lot, I reckon. So, is that sensible, or dramatic? We're very good at justifying our own dramas.

Or, how about a person who is always super-sweet and nice? Is ANYONE ever that super-sweet and nice all the time? Normally, no. But then we think and say all kinds of wonderful things about that person, even though we know that we don't know them fully because they're hiding behind this "niceness".

That's not really real; it's drama. So, I suggest that any not-totally-sincere expression of emotion is in fact drama - or at least it generates drama. One definition of drama is:

a state, situation, or series of events involving interesting or intense conflict of forces

Only a crazy person would actually LIKE intense conflict of (emotional) forces. And yet it seems most of us do! That's just a little too weird. Like, what's the point? Is it learned, or is there some innate wiring involved?

I used to think that reading dramatic novels or watching drama on TV was helpful. But actually, I don't think so. That doesn't give a person their "fix"... It has to be personal and in real life for it to count.

Well, one thing is for sure: We are WEIRD...

 

[Nević Nenad]

Low for me. I thought that I would be higher ( I have my moments :) ) Questions are not so good though.

 

[theos]

I scored very low. I know some drama queens. One that is really an overt case of borderline personality disorder and another who is pleasant to be around but a depressed basket case when you dig a little deeper. Their similarity lies in the fact that both their lives are complete train wrecks. Their health is crap, something is always going wrong with relationships, jobs, housing and they are constantly needing to be rescued in some way or requiring favors.

Some people subconsciously enjoy intense relations with others while claiming that they hate drama and want everything to be smooth. I think part of it is addiction to the chemicals and the other is having someone else to blame for the state of their lives so they don't have to take responsibility.

 

[annp]

I got a low score – and I think that’s probably related to having a number of family members who are definite drama queens. However, in thinking about it, I can see how my loathing of all the drama probably contributed to my tendency to bottle up emotions, which would eventually burst – leading to another kind of drama. Still working on trying to find a middle ground there, but its gotten much better over the years. I still keep too many of my emotions to myself but have learned to sense when they are building up now well before the critical stage. But I also think I engage in a lot of internal drama - I may not express it but am sure it contributes to my moods. So, I have to agree that the test really isn't an accurate measure of how much we create drama in our lives.

My mother is one of the family drama queens, and quite telling she’s a huge fan of grand opera. She’s the perennial victim and likes to stir up trouble between all her children. When we finally got her MO, we teamed up and now everyone ignores the pity ploys when it’s clear the intention is to make one of us look less caring of her well-being. When she says anything about anyone else in the family, first thing we do is check with each other to get the straight story. It’s helped us communicate much better and made us all much closer, which is something she no doubt finds aggravating because we essentially nip all her plays in the bud, and things are much calmer now.

 

[Celena Johnson]

Low, but I wonder how this "drama queen or king" type relates to those who also dislike confrontation? Because on that side being a drama king or queen could stem from enjoying other's drama...or would such a person be involved no in drama at all? Just a thought

 

[paralleloscope]

Low, but I wonder how this "drama queen or king" type relates to those who also dislike confrontation? Because on that side being a drama king or queen could stem from enjoying other's drama...or would such a person be involved no in drama at all? Just a thought

Yeah the test is overly simplistic, only loosely framing a context-less score for the classic overt drama seeker, and disregards the covert, more suppressed or indirect characteristics which seek drama, confrontation or attention through upset of affairs. Regarding the quote from 'Myth of Sanity' Gaby posted I think if one emphasizes safeguarding ones own emotional safety, by avoiding drama or rocking the boat, ones subconscious will produce the conditions by indirect means to receive the feedback missed by being avoidant in emotional 'up-frontness'.

I was reading a book by a psychologist recently and he suggested that the need for ongoing stimulation in life from dramas etc occurs in persons who do not have very well formed ego-selves and need for stuff to be constantly happening to feel "alive". Such a person will trigger dramas unconsciously to "get attention", because if they aren't getting attention they feel like they are going to disappear. This drama can be any type of thing even including screwing up royally so that everybody has to give attention to a situation to fix it. So it's not necessarily just somebody "stirring the pot" consciously.

This I can relate to, making mistakes essentially in order to get feedback. I got a low with the test, never thought of myself as a drama seeker, quite the opposite. But, at a base level there's a conditioned way of negative attention seeking (the means I worked out to get attention or a sense of love in my teens). The mention of 'aliveness' certainly resonates, as with negative attention there's: Adrenaline pumping, attention gathered around my person (normally avoided), and a clear sense of feeling my boundaries towards others as well as clearer intention of wanting to improve and work on self. An adolescent way of dealing with the problem of myself and the world in a passive aggressive way, producing the needed confrontations for growth in a backward manner.

Coming back to that Martha Stout quote about self-protection, assuming responsibility and victim-hood. Normally I don't think of myself as a victim and like to assume responsibility for mistakes I in some way been involved with, but then I am quite protective about putting my personality out there, not out of direct fear where I would want to say something that might rock the boat and don't, but it's more like a underlying physical fearful constriction of brain processes that inhibit situational input, which leaves room for the subconscious to work out its own way of expressing its unease with being stuck in the victim-hood of a nervous system acting against the conscious personality. So this misbegotten notion of emotional self preservation is thus driving and actually avoiding responsibility for the mishaps that keep on 'happening' as a result of not having taken control of the nervous response, which seems to equate an old childlike roleplay without means to express his emotional reality in an upright conscious fashion.

The workaround seems to be attaining more awareness, exerting more will on a regular basis, doing what it doesn't like. Feeling the boundaries of your body with breathing, stretching, cold therapy. Exercising the span of consciousness with writing, reading, meditation, creative outlets. Getting a hold of the runaway disowned nervous response to the world.

 

[luc]

I got "average".

And I agree with Scottie that the test is too simple, but still, I found it very interesting!

I scored "average" mainly because of the last couple of questions (osit), "holding back my opinion" can be hard for me in certain contexts, and I do sometimes have the feeling that "people are out to get me". But I think it has more to do with irrational fears and the fear of being critizised (for example on facebook), plus sometimes there are people who are "out to get you", it's the general law playing out... FWIW

 

[A Jay]

I scored high. I tried to answer as best I could based on observations of my behavior, and not on a conscious desire to do those things. Which I think would put me in the 'self-drama' type of Scottie's categories.

My tendencies from what I can tell is to unconsciously self-sabotage, thus seeking or creating drama, as a way to reinforce self-pity, negative beliefs about myself, and avoidance of responsibility. But the more I practice EE, meditate, journal, and I do what 'it' doesn't like the more in control I feel and the less things 'happen'.

The workaround seems to be attaining more awareness, exerting more will on a regular basis, doing what it doesn't like. Feeling the boundaries of your body with breathing, stretching, cold therapy. Exercising the span of consciousness with writing, reading, meditation, creative outlets. Getting a hold of the runaway disowned nervous response to the world.

Very helpful ideas here Parallel.