Are you a Narcissist?

Wow. Impressive! :shock:



It is more about lesson`s learned the hard way and feeling the internal changes that come with that.

One very important lesson, was that life in general is not "about me" never was, never will be.

A huge, huge thanks, for all the wake up calls I have received here, even those meant for others have affected me and have helped me, more then I could ever say.

Any growth that has come my way is due to this group. Period.

There is really no way to explain how much I have grown simply from being here.

Thank you. All of you.
 
Captainmurphy said:
Gotta six on it. I think I'm a bit more narcissistic than that but whatever computers don't lie so I'll take it. ;D
:lol:
I got a 7
Authority: 2.00
Self-Sufficiency: 2.00
Superiority: 0.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 1.00
Vanity: 2.00
Entitlement: 0.00
 
7 Overall!

Authority: 1.00
Self-Sufficiency: 1.00
Superiority: 1.00
Exhibitionism: 2.00
Exploitativeness: 0.00
Vanity: 2.00
Entitlement: 0.00

although, who knows the degree of how I used social desirability here? :O Maybe I clicked answers one "I" didn't want to admit too... hard stuff
 
Laura said:
“To what extent do you agree with this statement: “I am a narcissist.” (Note: The word “narcissist” means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.)”

Rate yourself on a scale of 1 to 7 where 1 is “not very true of me” and 7 is “very true of me”.

If I'm dissociated (or inflamed) then it's a 7.
When I'm not it can vary, but probably 5-6.
On a rare occasion I'll understand deeply how someone else feels about something, so rarely a 4.

6 would be my average I think.

As for the quiz:

Your Total: 3

Between 12 and 15 is average.
Celebrities often score closer to 18.
Narcissists score over 20.

Narcissistic Trait
Authority: 2.00
Self-Sufficiency: 1.00
Superiority: 0.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 0.00
Vanity: 0.00
Entitlement: 0.00

So how do those two mesh? The quiz asks a lot about inflated self image (that is expressed externally) and interactions with others (control/dominance of others).
I'm narcissistic by avoiding people/responsibility/life.
By hiding and not getting involved. By being self effacing and 'not caring' what I look like. By having a deflated self image (victim). By bypassing others and doing it all myself (perfectionism, which potentially is a superiority complex as those who are not perfectionist "can't do things as well as me").
All the narcissistic rage etc gets internalized and directed at myself. I control and dominate myself.
Rather than being "greater than others", I am "less than others (and that makes me 'special', because no one could possibly understand!)".
Rather than "Everyone adores me" it's "Everyone rejects me". Vanity in 'self hatred' rather than 'self love'.

It's taken a very long time to see that in myself. I couldn't see any hint of narcissism in me before then, in fact to me I appeared to be the complete opposite of everything described as narcissistic.

The following is the extreme version, of which I have shades of:

http://thenarcissisticlife.com/the-inverted-mirror-narcissist/
The Inverted (Mirror) Narcissist
Written by Alexander Burgemeester on February 2, 2014 · 8 Comments
Can a narcissist’s partner also be a narcissist? Many partners who have stayed with their narcissist have questioned whether they themselves were selfishly staying with him or her (because they liked the fame, success, wealth, etc). Many individuals who do stay with a narcissist- but not all- tend to be codependents. One specific type of codependent is, indeed, a narcissist. They are called ‘covert narcissists’, ‘inverted’ or ‘mirror’ narcissists, or ‘narcissist- codependent’ or even an “N-magnet” (narcissist magnet). Inverted narcissists are codependents who emotionally depend exclusively on classic narcissists. Narcissists and inverted narcissists are, in many ways, two sides of the same coin, or “the mold and the molded” (Sam Vaknin) – hence the terms “mirror narcissist” or “inverted narcissist”. Inverted narcissists are much rarer and harder to identify than the boastful, arrogant “classic” narcissist. Surprisingly for a narcissist, the inverted type is self-effacing and/or introverted. Let’s take a closer look at what we mean by some of these terms.

Codependents

Codependents are people who depend on other people for their emotional gratification. They are usually needy, demanding, and subservient. Like the classic narcissist, they fear abandonment. They tend to be clingy and will engage in immature behaviors to maintain this “relationship”. Codependents will stay with their partners despite whatever abuse is inflicted upon them. Also like the classic narcissist, they seek to control their partner; they do this through being an eager victim.
Codependency refers to excessive and unhealthy caretaking behavior or feelings. This doesn’t just occur with narcissists but also with partners of alcoholics, drug, sex, or other addicts. Codependents often play the role of martyr. They persistently put others’ needs before their own and are not likely to take care of their own needs. This makes them feel “needed”. Codependents are also likely to set themselves up as the “victim”, especially in arguments or disagreements. On occasion, they do stand up for themselves but are then wracked with guilt.

Inverted Narcissist

The classic narcissist has ‘overt’ or obvious/unconcealed behavior. The inverted narcissist has ‘covert’ or concealed narcissistic behavior. The inverted narcissist is a type of codependent who depends exclusively on narcissists. Sam Vaknin, author of Malignant Self-Love, describes the inverted narcissist this way:

To “qualify” as an inverted narcissist, you must CRAVE to be in a relationship with a narcissist, regardless of any abuse inflicted on you by him/her. You must ACTIVELY seek relationships with narcissists and ONLY with narcissists, no matter what your (bitter and traumatic) past experience has been. You must feel EMPTY and UNHAPPY in relationships with ANY OTHER kind of person.

Inverted or ‘covert’ narcissists are “intensely attuned to others’ needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice“. An inverted narcissist makes certain that in true martyr fashion, they will readily provide unlimited supplies of gratitude, love and attention as well as caretaking that is almost compulsive in nature. Vaknin theorized that “the inverted narcissist is a person who grew up enthralled by the narcissistic parent … the child becomes a masterful provider of Narcissistic Supply, a perfect match to the parent’s personality.”

On a day to day basis, the inverted narcissist is extremely shy, introverted and uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him or her. He or she has extreme feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem as indicated by:
  • Possesses a rigid sense of lack of self-worth.
  • Lacks empathy. Is intensely attuned to others’ needs, but only in so far as it relates to his/her own need to perform the required self-sacrifice, which in turn is necessary in order to obtain Narcissistic Supply from the primary narcissist.
  • Feels that he/she is undeserving and not entitled.
  • Is selfless, sacrificial, even groveling in her interpersonal relationships and avoids the assistance of others at all costs. Can only interact with others when she can be seen to be giving, supportive, and expending an unusual effort to assist.
  • Pre-occupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance and beauty or of an ideal of love.
  • Believes that he or she is absolutely un-unique and un-special and that no one at all could understand her because she is innately unworthy of being understood.
  • Displays extreme shyness, lack of any real relational connections, is publicly self-effacing in the extreme, is internally highly moralistic and critical of others; is a perfectionist and engages in lengthy ritualistic behaviors, which can never be perfectly performed
  • Envies others. Cannot conceive of being envied and becomes extremely agitated and uncomfortable if even brought into a situation where comparison might occur. Loathes competition and avoids competition at all costs
  • Demands anonymity (in the sense of seeking to remain excluded at all costs) and is intensely irritated and uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him/her

Do they also have narcissistic rages?

Like the classic narcissist, the inverted narcissist will indeed react with narcissistic rage to what they perceive as threats or narcissistic injury. The inverted narcissist may respond with rage whenever her lack of self-worth is threatened, when envious of other’s achievements or happiness, or when her sense of self-worthlessness is diminished by a behavior/ comment/event. Thus, this type of narcissist might react angrily to good things: a kind remark, a successful accomplishment, a reward, or a compliment. They might also rage when they believe that they have failed or are imperfect, useless and worthless.
During their rage, the inverted narcissist can become verbally and emotionally abusive. He or she ruthlessly attacks her victim but then immediately goes into an unbelievable calm, described as “thundering silence”. The inverted narcissists then regret their behavior and apologize profusely. They gather these negative emotions and use them as weapons for further self-destruction. “It is from this repressed self-contempt and sadistic self-judgment that the narcissistic rage springs forth”.

Relationship with the Narcissist

Although inverted narcissists can have non-narcissists as friends, significant relationships are only with other narcissists. These relationships are usually spousal relationships but can also be significant friendships with other narcissists.
In a love relationship, the inverted narcissist attempts to re-create the parent-child relationship. By mirroring back the narcissist’s own grandiosity, the inverted narcissist obtains his/her own Narcissistic Supply (which is the narcissist’s dependence on them).
The inverted narcissist ensures that the narcissist is happy, cared for, adored, and has plenty of Narcissistic Supply. They suffer narcissistic devaluation with poise and composure. They handle narcissistic rage by managing every last detail in their environment, closely supervising and controlling all situations, so that they minimize the inevitable narcissistic rages of their narcissist.
The inverted narcissist only feels loved in a relationship where their life is totally engulfed by the narcissist. They are not likely to abandon the relationship with the narcissist. The relationship usually doesn’t end unless the narcissist decides the inverted narcissist is no longer useful, and refuses to supply him/her with any more Narcissistic Supply. Only then does the inverted narcissist halfheartedly move on to another relationship.

And:
http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/malignant-self-love/narcissists-inverted-narcissists-and-schizoids/
Question:

Some narcissists are not gregarious. They avoid social events and are stay-at-home recluses. Doesn't this behaviour go against the grain of narcissism?

Answer:

I. The Common Psychological Constructs of Narcissistic and Schizoid Disorders

Or, as the Howard H. Goldman (Ed.) in the "Review of General Psychiatry" [4th Edition. London, Prentice Hall International, 1995] puts it:

"The person with Schizoid Personality Disorder sustains a fragile emotional equilibrium by avoiding intimate personal contact and thereby minimising conflict that is poorly tolerated."

Schizoids are often described, even by their nearest and dearest, in terms of automata ("robots"). They are uninterested in social relationships or interactions and have a very limited emotional repertoire. It is not that they do not have emotions, but they express them poorly and intermittently. They appear cold and stunted, flat, and "zombie"-like. Consequently, these people are loners. They confide only in first-degree relatives, but maintain no close bonds or associations, not even with their immediate family. Naturally, they gravitate into solitary activities and find solace and safety in being constantly alone. Their sexual experiences are sporadic and limited and, finally, they cease altogether.

Schizoids are anhedonic - find nothing pleasurable and attractive - but not necessarily dysphoric (sad or depressed). Some schizoid are asexual and resemble the cerebral narcissist. They pretend to be indifferent to praise, criticism, disagreement, and corrective advice (though, deep inside, they are not). They are creatures of habit, frequently succumbing to rigid, predictable, and narrowly restricted routines.

Intuitively, a connection between SPD and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) seems plausible. After all, narcissists are people who self-sufficiently withdraw from others. They love themselves in lieu of loving others. Lacking empathy, they regard others as mere instruments, objectified "Sources" of Narcissistic Supply.

The inverted narcissist (IN) is a narcissist who "projects" his narcissism onto another narcissist. The mechanism of projective identification allows the IN to experience his own narcissism vicariously, through the agency of a classic narcissist. But the IN is no less a narcissist than the classical one. He is no less socially reclusive.

A distinction must be made between social interactions and social relationships. The schizoid, the narcissist and the inverted narcissist all interact socially. But they fail to form human and social relationships (bonds). The schizoid is uninterested and the narcissist is both uninterested and incapable to due to his lack of empathy and pervasive sense of grandiosity.

In the end (excluding the psychopathic side of things - those that are incapable of feeling empathy) these behaviors all stem from brain/psychological development getting 'stuck'. They require an understanding of that in order to be accepted without feeling annihilated. Or for them not to be completely ignored or turned into rage against the self or others.
Learning to see both the good and the bad in the shades and flavors they appear is most important, and that needs compassion and empathy for yourself as well as others.
 
Meager1 said:
Wow. Impressive! :shock:



It is more about lesson`s learned the hard way and feeling the internal changes that come with that.

One very important lesson, was that life in general is not "about me" never was, never will be.

A huge, huge thanks, for all the wake up calls I have received here, even those meant for others have affected me and have helped me, more then I could ever say.

Any growth that has come my way is due to this group. Period.

There is really no way to explain how much I have grown simply from being here.

Thank you. All of you.

Same here. Thank you all for the mirrors, the honest advice, the constructed criticism and the compassion, empathy and respect that came with it :flowers:
 
I scored a 2, but before I took the test, I just asked myself "are you a narcissist " and my answer was a 7. I think for me, it points to low self esteem (victim mentality) which is still feeding in one way or another. Some points of Redfox's inverted narcissism applies and was helpful to read.

I've been trying to work on my strong aversion to receiving attention. Work is a good place for me to observe it. My supervisor likes to give a lot of praise and I find my reaction to it unhealthy. I start blushing, my stomach churns, and there's a take flight mechanism triggered. I've been working on a simple "thank you" when these situations come up. I'm not sure yet as to why praise equals danger to me. This is embarrassing to admit, but if someone compliments me on my physical appearance, like yesterday a co-worker told me the shirt I had on was pretty, I basically want to RUN. There's probably a predator in there that really does not want to be seen. Taking the test helped bring all of this back up, because I felt the same reactions just answering the questions.
 
skycsil said:
Wow. Impressive! :shock:

I wouldn't say it was impressive... mainly because someone who has a small amount of understanding of narcissm should probably be able to tick off every single box on that test and end up with 0. It was fairly obvious IMO which one was the narcissistic answer and which was not. While doing the test I observed in myself a tendency to click on the "right/non-narcissistic" answer because of the knowledge I have gained and the understanding that this answer/behaviour would be in the direction of STO. I would like to be that kind of person, that is part of my Aim, therefore I am more inclined to click on the answers that benefit and favour my own image of myself OSIT.

The question is this: do I ever actually apply my knowledge and put it into practice? The answer is: 99% no. So, while doing the test I had to consciously struggle against this inner inclination to click on the more favourable option and actually try to take a third person-view of myself and my behaviour. The end result was 14.
 
Keyhole said:
skycsil said:
Wow. Impressive! :shock:

I wouldn't say it was impressive... mainly because someone who has a small amount of understanding of narcissm should probably be able to tick off every single box on that test and end up with 0. It was fairly obvious IMO which one was the narcissistic answer and which was not. While doing the test I observed in myself a tendency to click on the "right/non-narcissistic" answer because of the knowledge I have gained and the understanding that this answer/behaviour would be in the direction of STO. I would like to be that kind of person, that is part of my Aim, therefore I am more inclined to click on the answers that benefit and favour my own image of myself OSIT.

The question is this: do I ever actually apply my knowledge and put it into practice? The answer is: 99% no. So, while doing the test I had to consciously struggle against this inner inclination to click on the more favourable option and actually try to take a third person-view of myself and my behaviour. The end result was 14.

While taking the test, I too had to ask myself if the answer I gave corresponded to current learned behavior or my natural inclination. There are some behaviors that I have changed over the years and even recently, so I went about it in trying to see my behavior as it is now. Even just a year ago, I think I would have scored much higher.
 
CNS said:
Keyhole said:
skycsil said:
Wow. Impressive! :shock:

I wouldn't say it was impressive... mainly because someone who has a small amount of understanding of narcissm should probably be able to tick off every single box on that test and end up with 0. It was fairly obvious IMO which one was the narcissistic answer and which was not. While doing the test I observed in myself a tendency to click on the "right/non-narcissistic" answer because of the knowledge I have gained and the understanding that this answer/behaviour would be in the direction of STO. I would like to be that kind of person, that is part of my Aim, therefore I am more inclined to click on the answers that benefit and favour my own image of myself OSIT.

The question is this: do I ever actually apply my knowledge and put it into practice? The answer is: 99% no. So, while doing the test I had to consciously struggle against this inner inclination to click on the more favourable option and actually try to take a third person-view of myself and my behaviour. The end result was 14.

While taking the test, I too had to ask myself if the answer I gave corresponded to current learned behavior or my natural inclination. There are some behaviors that I have changed over the years and even recently, so I went about it in trying to see my behavior as it is now. Even just a year ago, I think I would have scored much higher.

Same here... the "right" answer seemed a bit obvious to me, so I thought that maybe a narcissistic person would just answer according to what they think is better for their self-image, OSIT.

And I also thought that there were things that I would certainly had answered differently just 1 or 2 years ago. Fortunately, even if I'm a slow learner, I've been learning a lot thanks to this forum :)

And yes, as RedFox pointed out, the score could be different depending on my emotional/physiological state.

I scored a 3 today.

Authority: 1.00
Self-Sufficiency: 0.00
Superiority: 0.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 0.00
Vanity: 0.00
Entitlement: 2.00

Edit> Spelling
 
Chrissy said:
I scored a 2, but before I took the test, I just asked myself "are you a narcissist " and my answer was a 7. I think for me, it points to low self esteem (victim mentality) which is still feeding in one way or another. Some points of Redfox's inverted narcissism applies and was helpful to read.

I've been trying to work on my strong aversion to receiving attention. Work is a good place for me to observe it. My supervisor likes to give a lot of praise and I find my reaction to it unhealthy. I start blushing, my stomach churns, and there's a take flight mechanism triggered. I've been working on a simple "thank you" when these situations come up. I'm not sure yet as to why praise equals danger to me. This is embarrassing to admit, but if someone compliments me on my physical appearance, like yesterday a co-worker told me the shirt I had on was pretty, I basically want to RUN. There's probably a predator in there that really does not want to be seen. Taking the test helped bring all of this back up, because I felt the same reactions just answering the questions.

I know the feeling - I have the exact same reaction: praise wants to make me run, which always made me wonder, because we are all after praise somewhat, because it makes us feel good. I haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, though. Maybe that would be worth a separate thread.

I think you are right, it probably has to do with the inner predator who doesn't want to be found out, but what aspect precisely? I always felt that it "raised the bar" or increased the pressure to do even better.

Scored a 2, not sure this is really a relevant test. Maybe it's investigating some other quality than narcissism, like self-effacement, humbleness. Also to many questions I had to choose between two "wrong" answers, both of which didn't fit the way I see myself.
 
nicklebleu said:
Chrissy said:
I scored a 2, but before I took the test, I just asked myself "are you a narcissist " and my answer was a 7. I think for me, it points to low self esteem (victim mentality) which is still feeding in one way or another. Some points of Redfox's inverted narcissism applies and was helpful to read.

I've been trying to work on my strong aversion to receiving attention. Work is a good place for me to observe it. My supervisor likes to give a lot of praise and I find my reaction to it unhealthy. I start blushing, my stomach churns, and there's a take flight mechanism triggered. I've been working on a simple "thank you" when these situations come up. I'm not sure yet as to why praise equals danger to me. This is embarrassing to admit, but if someone compliments me on my physical appearance, like yesterday a co-worker told me the shirt I had on was pretty, I basically want to RUN. There's probably a predator in there that really does not want to be seen. Taking the test helped bring all of this back up, because I felt the same reactions just answering the questions.

I know the feeling - I have the exact same reaction: praise wants to make me run, which always made me wonder, because we are all after praise somewhat, because it makes us feel good. I haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, though. Maybe that would be worth a separate thread.

I think you are right, it probably has to do with the inner predator who doesn't want to be found out, but what aspect precisely? I always felt that it "raised the bar" or increased the pressure to do even better.

I know the feeling as well... I would say that the reason may be different for each of us, but I guess that it could be that we like the praise but we don't like the fact that we like it, so to say. IOW, we naturally like being praised but we don't want to admit that to ourselves because we relate that to being narcissists so we rather run and suppress the feeling of satisfaction coming from being praised.
 
[quote author=Yas]
.. I would say that the reason may be different for each of us,[/quote]

I agree, and to futher complicate things, the current psychology literature on best management practices offers no consensus on using praise and each has their own evidence to back themselves up. On the one hand, there is the advice to praise and praise often - even to excess because people suffer from its lack. On the other hand, there is the advice to avoid praise because it's manipulative and will be perceived as such thereby inducing resentment as just one negative reaction possible.

So, for two different people, a reflexive 'run from praise' reaction could be both, a valid defense mechanism related to feeling like they're being set up for a downfall, or the 'flight' response could simply be a 'solution' for feeling a gap between how good someone says a person is and that person's own, poorer, internal self-evaluation.

In any case, it's hard to say that avoiding praise is a 'program' in and of itself, and that if it is, that it's good or bad for you.

Personally, I've most often perceived praise as superficial manipulation unless it comes with a believable description of how something I did actually benefitted someone. But maybe that's just me? I don't know.
 
Yas said:
nicklebleu said:
Chrissy said:
I scored a 2, but before I took the test, I just asked myself "are you a narcissist " and my answer was a 7. I think for me, it points to low self esteem (victim mentality) which is still feeding in one way or another. Some points of Redfox's inverted narcissism applies and was helpful to read.

I've been trying to work on my strong aversion to receiving attention. Work is a good place for me to observe it. My supervisor likes to give a lot of praise and I find my reaction to it unhealthy. I start blushing, my stomach churns, and there's a take flight mechanism triggered. I've been working on a simple "thank you" when these situations come up. I'm not sure yet as to why praise equals danger to me. This is embarrassing to admit, but if someone compliments me on my physical appearance, like yesterday a co-worker told me the shirt I had on was pretty, I basically want to RUN. There's probably a predator in there that really does not want to be seen. Taking the test helped bring all of this back up, because I felt the same reactions just answering the questions.

I know the feeling - I have the exact same reaction: praise wants to make me run, which always made me wonder, because we are all after praise somewhat, because it makes us feel good. I haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, though. Maybe that would be worth a separate thread.

I think you are right, it probably has to do with the inner predator who doesn't want to be found out, but what aspect precisely? I always felt that it "raised the bar" or increased the pressure to do even better.

I know the feeling as well... I would say that the reason may be different for each of us, but I guess that it could be that we like the praise but we don't like the fact that we like it, so to say. IOW, we naturally like being praised but we don't want to admit that to ourselves because we relate that to being narcissists so we rather run and suppress the feeling of satisfaction coming from being praised.

I know the feeling as well. You seem to have hit the nail on the head Yas. I react the same, yet always start to get worried when noone notices me or anything i have done.
 
Buddy said:
[quote author=Yas]
.. I would say that the reason may be different for each of us,

I agree, and to futher complicate things, the current psychology literature on best management practices offers no consensus on using praise and each has their own evidence to back themselves up. On the one hand, there is the advice to praise and praise often - even to excess because people suffer from its lack. On the other hand, there is the advice to avoid praise because it's manipulative and will be perceived as such thereby inducing resentment as just one negative reaction possible.

So, for two different people, a reflexive 'run from praise' reaction could be both, a valid defense mechanism related to feeling like they're being set up for a downfall, or the 'flight' response could simply be a 'solution' for feeling a gap between how good someone says a person is and that person's own, poorer, internal self-evaluation.

In any case, it's hard to say that avoiding praise is a 'program' in and of itself, and that if it is, that it's good or bad for you.

Personally, I've most often perceived praise as superficial manipulation unless it comes with a believable description of how something I did actually benefitted someone. But maybe that's just me? I don't know.
[/quote]

fwiw the common underlying mechanism of automatic behaviours is that of the emotional component, no matter the personal experience.
So when it comes to things you 'run from', it is the feeling a situation brings up that you can't handle and run from.

Learning to observe the feeling and learning how to relate to it differently changes the behaviour, or so it seems. :)
 
Good points, RedFox. In hindsight, 'valid defense mechanism' should probably read: valid perception of intended manipulation. That would leave it open for someone to do the work of learning what he/she really feels and why and maybe then responding differently if desired.
 

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