Are you a Narcissist?

[Nienna]

I have to say that I'm at least a 5-6. As others have mentioned, once I really started looking at myself, I found that I really was selfish and self-serving.

I think that what a lot of people don't get is that they see themselves as giving, and on the surface, they may be right. But looking deeper, you have to ask yourself, are you being giving for giving's sake, or to make yourself feel goo/look good.

 

[nf3]

Thing is, the the more I see of myself, the more narcissism I see. It shows up in damned insidious forms. Quite humiliating and painful really, and there's a lot more about myself yet to be revealed.

I'd hazard a guess that most people involved in the study probably had never engaged in much work on the self, 'seeing' the self, etc.

Exactly...

Gurdjieff: "They are too lazy to work on themselves; and at the same time it is very pleasant for them to think that they are able to help others. This is being false and insincere with oneself. If a man looks at himself as he really is, he will not begin to think of helping other people: he will be ashamed to think about it. Love of mankind, altruism, are all very fine words, but they only have meaning when a man is able, of his own choice and of his own decision, to love or not to love, to be an altruist or an egoist. Then his choice has a value. But if there is no choice at all, if he cannot be different, if he is only such as chance has made or is making him, an altruist today, an egoist tomorrow, again an altruist the day after tomorrow, then there is no value in it whatever. In order to help others one must first learn to be an egoist, a conscious egoist. Only a conscious egoist can help people."

 

[adam7117]

I'm gonna say 4.

Ditto.

 

[whitecoast]

I think that what a lot of people don't get is that they see themselves as giving, and on the surface, they may be right. But looking deeper, you have to ask yourself, are you being giving for giving's sake, or to make yourself feel good/look good.

I think the latter is a very difficult question for some to answer. Even actually altruistic giving for its own sake would by necessity be motivated by the request to satisfy an internal state; this is the case even when that internal state's satisfaction is genuinely contingent on the well being of others. What I take away from this realization is that just because behavior is motivated doesn't mean it's selfish-- that is to say, motivated by one's objective self-interest.

I think the fact that everyone seems to see an element of self-interest in everything we do may not be a factual observation, but a misinterpretation. Because if you think about anything hard enough, or any situation hard enough, you will find a combination of good and bad in it (which means, things both agreeable and disagreeable to the emotional-instinctive machinery). One of the main tenets of the stoic was that all negative emotions come from errors in judgement. The main strategy was to take the negative events and find the positive spin to each of them that our emotions can identify with. It is quite evident that, with all the little i's the stoic may choose from to neutralize negative emotions, he could just as easily use this cognitive behavioral therapy to attribute all events to selfishness. But this could simply be confirmation bias on the stoic's part.

In the end, as many of the cognitive psych books indicate, I don't think we can simply look within ourselves and find the truth about whether or not we are always just being objectively selfish.

To some of those who were "dismayed" about seeing selfishness in you, remember that (1) you can't actually see reality, and (2) even if it does SEEM like you're just selfish, remember that as an STS being STO candidacy will superficially resemble just another form of self-interest, but it is illusory for the reasons I have given above.

I hope what I have said is a little coherent. I just felt sorry for some of the people I saw here flagellating themselves in spite of all their demonstrable tremendous efforts. Self-compassion should a role here too, I think. :)

 

[Jacques]

It depends who « I » is on board.

So some day I am 7, some other days 6 and some other days 5.

 

[crystalicdream]

Hmm, it is kinda hard to say where I am on the scale.
I think I might be on the middle ground?
I am not exactly vain and often do not care about how I appear.
I am always trying to accomodate everybody and be of help whenever it is needed and give more than I expect in return.

However, there is also another side of me in which I like to hear praise.
I am dreaming of ideal love, and I am living in the fantasy-world inside my own head whenever I am unable to face reality.

... I must admit, I think I am still lying to myself on some points, but it is really hard to see the self from an objective point of view when you have always ever engaged in lying to yourself and always seeing yourself as the hero of your own story.

 

[lostinself]

In fact on the contrary, I think it is also possible for very narcissistic people to have little concern for their own appearance - if the opinions of others don't matter as much as one's own, then what does it matter what they think you look like? And you already know that you look just fine, because you are so fine, right?

Good point IMO. Narcistic individual cares mostly about the image of himself that he carries in his own mind. It may or may not coincide with what makes a person "better" in common perception. Abnegation may actually be a symptom of NPD if the person feels supreme because of not being bound by social norms. Individualism per se doesn't always stem from narcissistic tendentions, but "intentional" individualism often does. OSIT.

(5 here)

 

[josssve]

4. indeed tend to be a little careless of myself XD. exact in the city where I lived before I came up with a murder, a young woman murdered by her boyfriend, a young man in some reports they called him a narcissist. interesting.

 

[lainey]

It depends who « I » is on board.

So some day I am 7, some other days 6 and some other days 5.

Good point, something to ponder

 

[nf3]

you can't actually see reality

Indeed! Probably the point of the original question.

[quote author=whitecoast]To some of those who were "dismayed" about seeing selfishness in you[/quote]LOL. Yeah, it's okay. Don't worry about it...

 

[Skyalmian]

"What to expect when breaking up with a narcissist"
_http://the-courage-to-heal.tumblr.com/post/94450190444/please-note-this-article-is-for-people-attempting

 

[lilyalic]

Compared to the narcissism I've been exposed to, I'd say a 5. But considering I'm very much still trapped in my own subjective viewing of everything, I'd go as far as 7 on some days. This may be due to not quite yet fully letting go of my STS suffering. As Gurdjijeff said, we have to let go of our suffering and only conscious suffering is of value.

However, as some views of narcissism are boiled down to self-image, it seems my 'I's' are decreasing in this realm, so a 5/6 most days?

The collective knowledge of the fourth way, the 'truth' (to how far my knowledge goes individually so far), the diet and so on makes me feel somewhat narcissistic whilst looking down on others unwillingly for them being unconscious, does anyone else ever feel this? I'm somewhat realising more so that we cannot blame those for their machines and increasing external consideration aids this persona or I a lot!

 

[Michael B-C]

By even pondering and answering I become the narcissist I am. As the child of two narcissists (perfectly expressed at different times to different people, they both let it be known they did not like their children because ‘they were nothing like them’!) I have come to know I am deeply infected by the disease. In fact in the years since I have come into contact with the work of this forum I have, I fear become more obviously – to myself – narcissistic. I used to think I was a giver, a server of others – but I’ve come to know that was merely a learnt survival program to get me through my upbringing. My professional life in the public eye has brought the narcissist kicking and screaming to the surface. And what else can we be in an STS environment; for all we can do is aspire to be is an STO candidate. Facing the Gorgon, the Weitiko virus within, is painful and vial but a necessary act of self observation. Even my self disgust and self hatred is a form of acute narcissism. So 7 is the magic number. Some days I hope it is lower, but in the acutely stressful life I live I suspect the 7 is digging in and at times reaching for an 8! Resist, resist, is all I can do.

 

[thinker]

I think some people confuse the question of being a narcissist (7) / healthy human (1) with a question on being sts / sto. Like someone said before in this thread, if you try to be better, if you work on your bad traits, then you're not narcissist. I'd say that anyone attempting to work on themselves is already better than a typical human.

Wikipedia:
"Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other."

Another article:
How to Spot a Narcissist

 

[hesperides]

Quote from: Lilyalic

The collective knowledge of the fourth way, the 'truth' (to how far my knowledge goes individually so far), the diet and so on makes me feel somewhat narcissistic whilst looking down on others unwillingly for them being unconscious, does anyone else ever feel this?

I´ve been there too and spent a long time squeezing my brain trying to understand how and why the narcissistic feeling works, even long before I was acquainted with the word narcissism.

I see the feeling you are referring to, Lilyalic, as the expression of our dual world and as such it requires my active and conscious participation in life, independently whether I´m aware of it or not. That is how I understand this third density area as a school. When I´m lying to myself, like for example in a repression mode, the tension between yes and no seeks to draw my conscious attention, the recognition of what I´m repressing. In this way I´m given an opportunity to understand that I´m part of my own process in the everyday life and from there on, making personal choices becomes then a matter of tremendous importance.

Regarding the example you gave above, let´s say you are looking down on others because you feel you are doing IMPORTANT things and have access to IMPORTANT information here, this could resonate with a huge need to be valued yourself (not saying this is your case), and then the emotional thought "I shouldn´t feel superior" enters the scene and one may be easily confused by mixed feelings and psychological defences arising right there, like i did by judging this state of confusion, which further distorts things even more.

What I do after recognizing symptoms of a disturbing feeling process is resorting to the third principle of reconciliation -positive, negative, reconciliation of both extremes -. In the example I just used, this could mean stopping to evaluate my self worth through others while taking note of obsolete ideas I´m still holding on from past and early experiences, disengaging myself of any a priori explanations about peoples actions towards myself, and reintegrating a more objective new self based on the new information. Lot of readings and reflections need to be done at the same time of course.

Maybe I extended myself too much with the explanation, but I still did it because your question reminded me of how much time -years I was dedicating to find THE answer to your question. Sure enough, a signal of a narcissistic trait lurking its ugly head, particularly when this question rebounds without echo for too long a time in the mind! And so many aspects to take in account for such an apparently naive question, so to speak.