Are you a Narcissist?

[Iron]

Compared to the narcissism I've been exposed to, I'd say a 5. But considering I'm very much still trapped in my own subjective viewing of everything, I'd go as far as 7 on some days. This may be due to not quite yet fully letting go of my STS suffering. As Gurdjijeff said, we have to let go of our suffering and only conscious suffering is of value.

However, as some views of narcissism are boiled down to self-image, it seems my 'I's' are decreasing in this realm, so a 5/6 most days?

The collective knowledge of the fourth way, the 'truth' (to how far my knowledge goes individually so far), the diet and so on makes me feel somewhat narcissistic whilst looking down on others unwillingly for them being unconscious, does anyone else ever feel this? I'm somewhat realising more so that we cannot blame those for their machines and increasing external consideration aids this persona or I a lot!

Yes, I've felt contempt of others for not "seeing the obvious". Eventually I realized that this is in no way different from evangelic fanaticals or fanatics of any kind. I realized that what we do here is not obvious, and is not the path for every single people alive. People have diferent paths in life, and different wants. I think that part of the work is learning to acknowledge and respect that, without compromising yourself. Still a work in progress.

 

[RGG]

2

Any excessive narcissism I had was thoroughly stamped out and crushed by raising 3 kids in a difficult environment. I should say that I've had to learn to Protect my empathetic and thoughtful nature well thanks to a few run ins with psychopaths- my sister married one and my husband and I were blackmailed by one to the tune of 15000$. So I don't count self preservation or self work or self awareness as narcissistic. I count that as intelligent living.

 

[Gawan]

I personally would say 7, sometimes more and sometimes less. And I find it fascinating that a simple question could outdo a complex test at least it could give a hint.

 

[Michael B-C]

I think some people confuse the question of being a narcissist (7) / healthy human (1) with a question on being sts / sto. Like someone said before in this thread, if you try to be better, if you work on your bad traits, then you're not narcissist. I'd say that anyone attempting to work on themselves is already better than a typical human.

Wikipedia:
"Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other."

Another article:
How to Spot a Narcissist

I think ‘thinker’ it is dangerous to excuse oneself of the curse of narcissism simply because one is on the path. In fact this is precisely a time when it is highly likely that certain narcissistic traits can and will be easily amplified in subtle and insidious ways, for the ego/predator within will do all it can to stop full integration of the life threatening challenges to its rule that potential self awareness brings. Furthermore, our environment is fully sts and hence so many of the influences we are fed as normal are in fact inherently sts and thence narcissistic (right down to doing good, which so often can actually be a means simply to feel good about oneself. There are undoubtedly many individuals working in the field of charity who "do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves". You say (1) is healthy human; I'd say it’s near unobtainable in this life, or maybe by the very, very few and therefore is also a good fit for being truly sto. After all the C's have only said we are sto candidates, and clearly then only after a great deal of self work. That is why the norm for most of us is nearer the top end of the scale than the bottom, even as we strive to be otherwise. We should all beware the liar within. As Gurdjieff said, we lie to ourselves all the time. Saying one is not is the first sign one is hiding something from oneself. Obviously full blown narcissism is a particular facet of the sts reality - sts gone viral within the personality so that it takes over the entire space. But it is well for all on the path of knowledge to permanently monitor oneself and to not excuse oneself of unpleasant traits simply because we think we have discovered the beginnings of a way out. So frankly I do not see any contradiction between narcissism and sts - they are clearly deeply interconnected. I think those here who give themselves a high mark are actually doing so as a reminder of how deep in this mess we are all in and how much Work it takes to begin to stem the tide. Best wishes to you.

 

[Cleo]

Compared to the narcissism I've been exposed to, I'd say a 5. But considering I'm very much still trapped in my own subjective viewing of everything, I'd go as far as 7 on some days. This may be due to not quite yet fully letting go of my STS suffering. As Gurdjijeff said, we have to let go of our suffering and only conscious suffering is of value.

However, as some views of narcissism are boiled down to self-image, it seems my 'I's' are decreasing in this realm, so a 5/6 most days?

The collective knowledge of the fourth way, the 'truth' (to how far my knowledge goes individually so far), the diet and so on makes me feel somewhat narcissistic whilst looking down on others unwillingly for them being unconscious, does anyone else ever feel this? I'm somewhat realising more so that we cannot blame those for their machines and increasing external consideration aids this persona or I a lot!

Yes, I've felt contempt of others for not "seeing the obvious". Eventually I realized that this is in no way different from evangelic fanaticals or fanatics of any kind. I realized that what we do here is not obvious, and is not the path for every single people alive. People have diferent paths in life, and different wants. I think that part of the work is learning to acknowledge and respect that, without compromising yourself. Still a work in progress.

I've noticed this in myself as well, especially in my last relationship. For example, I might get irritated at my ex or look down on him for his dietary choices which were not in align with mine, or for his views that were more mainstream. Almost as if I was in contempt of him. He would point this out to me as well, my attitude and how emotionally reactive I could get if we disagreed on something, saying that I reminded him at times of a religious person. He was brought up Christian but turned Atheist. A little surprising to hear that from him and then to recognize it in myself (I wasn't raised with a specific religion). Had me wondering whether I had control issues. With other people before and since, I notice that I don't seem to have this type of emotional reaction regarding differences. For some reason, it was really brought to the forefront with him.

 

[lilyalic]

Yes, I've felt contempt of others for not "seeing the obvious". Eventually I realized that this is in no way different from evangelic fanaticals or fanatics of any kind. I realized that what we do here is not obvious, and is not the path for every single people alive. People have diferent paths in life, and different wants. I think that part of the work is learning to acknowledge and respect that, without compromising yourself. Still a work in progress.

Yes, it seems to be coming more apparent that this knowledge is certainly not obvious. It was kind of a selfish hatred towards the mainstream, yet probably entirely down to the loneliness and exclusion people on this path tend to exhibit. At the same time, it makes me feel ridiculous to even be angry at those who don't see the subjective "obvious" to us. As Gurjijeff said, we must be horrified at every single part of ourselves! This is something I'd like to be horrified with enough to change.

Before we got onto this path, everything seemed as knowledgeable as it could be, and it seems we forget how once we where as unconscious as the others.
Definitely still a work in progress!

I've noticed this in myself as well, especially in my last relationship. For example, I might get irritated at my ex or look down on him for his dietary choices which were not in align with mine, or for his views that were more mainstream. Almost as if I was in contempt of him. He would point this out to me as well, my attitude and how emotionally reactive I could get if we disagreed on something, saying that I reminded him at times of a religious person. He was brought up Christian but turned Atheist. A little surprising to hear that from him and then to recognize it in myself (I wasn't raised with a specific religion). Had me wondering whether I had control issues. With other people before and since, I notice that I don't seem to have this type of emotional reaction regarding differences. For some reason, it was really brought to the forefront with him.

Well in a relationship that's probably entirely different, being angry at your partner for not taking the same path as you. Especially when we tend to see our partners as parts of ourselves (Again another narcissistic trait, but not as severe as a full blown narcissist). I suppose you felt more controlling in that relationship because of what you both had before you got onto this path? maybe the hope and the fact that we want our men to be 'greater' than us instinctively haha.

 

[nicklebleu]

Before we got onto this path, everything seemed as knowledgeable as it could be, and it seems we forget how once we where as unconscious as the others.
Definitely still a work in progress!
.

I think that this is an extremely important point, and I know that I tend to forget this. I know for a fact that befor the collapse of my previousl worldview, when I encountered something that went against my belief, I would often not even consider the other point. I simply "knew" that the other point was wrong.

Many other people not in the Work feel the same, so we can't really blame them. For whatever reason, we chose a different path. And the path others are on is their path ... so now I don't judge anyone anymore.

 

[thinker]

I think ‘thinker’ it is dangerous to excuse oneself of the curse of narcissism simply because one is on the path. In fact this is precisely a time when it is highly likely that certain narcissistic traits can and will be easily amplified in subtle and insidious ways, for the ego/predator within will do all it can to stop full integration of the life threatening challenges to its rule that potential self awareness brings.

A narcissist is an emotionally underdeveloped person that doesn't have the capability to distinguish between "himself" and other people (everyone goes thru this stage in childhood). "He" sees other people just as extensions of himself. Like in: "if a part of me is broken, then I need to fix it", but in relation to other people. Or like in this example: "my dog doesn't listen to me, so I don't have a choice and need to put it down" (again, in relation to other people). This developmental sickness affects 1% of population.

There's a difference between healthy self love and a guy / gal that needs to have the shiniest, fastest and newest car on the block, just so he can feel good about himself. Sure, everyone on this planet is sts, but narcissists are just a broken subset of our sts population. If you make everyone on this planet a narcissists, then what do you call the sick ones that need to prove all the time to everyone that they are the coolest?

Best wishes.

 

[H-KQGE]

Before we got onto this path, everything seemed as knowledgeable as it could be, and it seems we forget how once we where as unconscious as the others.
Definitely still a work in progress!
.

I think that this is an extremely important point, and I know that I tend to forget this. I know for a fact that befor the collapse of my previousl worldview, when I encountered something that went against my belief, I would often not even consider the other point. I simply "knew" that the other point was wrong.

Many other people not in the Work feel the same, so we can't really blame them. For whatever reason, we chose a different path. And the path others are on is their path ... so now I don't judge anyone anymore.

For me my previous worldview was a sort of flux. I always listened to everyone around me, & I mean everyone young & old regardless if others who supposedly knew things would frown on them or think different. I would always ask questions & I generally gathered information & correlated it with whatever I could find. Basically my position was "I don't know, I'm not sure, this is what I've heard/read." For some reason people would regularly consult with me on a variety of things, things I would say (mainly think) "why are you asking me for, how would I know?" Maybe it was because I filled a number of roles within social circles (I preferred being around older people, people my age at the time - late teens to early twenties - just guessed & assumed everything, with serious black-and-white thinking) being funny, (apparantley) athletic, fair/balanced/reasonable (dunno if this may have come across as some kind of mild charm, I did get on with nearly everyone I met although, there was a lot of restraint with the more narcissistic individuals) & quiet yet outgoing. Being into many things that people normally are (topics you're interested in that people talk about all the time, at work or play, friends, associates, strangers etc) helped I think; putting me in "affable light." OSIT.

But what I knew was that I was, for the most part, unsure of most things. I just believed that certain people would know more than me, like most populations following authority figures. Fortunately I paid attention most of the time, to what people said & did. Which resulted in pretty obvious discrepancies that made me think twice about "hanging my hat" on what certain people said, especially when I did the briefest of research & found what I was told by someone to not even be close to "the truth"/"facts."

Biggest wake-up call before "The Wave" & all the books I read around that time was listening to politicians & watching the news intently. Now, as ever, they would say something, do different & shift positions blatantly, blaming "the previous party/administration" & quite frankly, the contradictory medical advice in the media convinced me not to trust anything, especially from official sources. But I remember my unconsciousness well, not getting annoyed/frustrated with others (who I believe should "know" better) is a real challenge despite my almost non-involvement anymore. It's the internal considering that can catch me out when I'm particularly stressed, otherwise I just let others do their thing. I still shake my head at people refusing to read things involving serious health concerns though.

 

[skycsil]

This is a quick quiz, not sure is accurate enough to take it seriously tho. It looks like my most remarkable narcissistic trait is Self-Sufficiency. Amusing, to say the least, I thought it would be Superiority ;D

_http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm



My results:

Your Total: 6

Between 12 and 15 is average.
Celebrities often score closer to 18.
Narcissists score over 20.

Of which:

Authority: 1.00
Self-Sufficiency: 3.00
Superiority: 1.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 1.00
Vanity: 0.00
Entitlement: 0.00

 

[Meager1]

I`m a Zero..?

Authority: 0.00
Self-Sufficiency: 0.00
Superiority: 0.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 0.00
Vanity: 0.00
Entitlement: 0.00

 

[skycsil]

Wow. Impressive!

 

[CNS]

I scored a 6 as well.

Authority: 4.00
Self-Sufficiency: 1.00
Superiority: 1.00
Exhibitionism: 0.00
Exploitativeness: 0.00
Vanity: 0.00
Entitlement: 0.00

While taking the quiz, I was pretty sure I had taken this same test once before. There is a great thread on rating yourself as a narcissist here.

In it, nicklebleu posted a link to it here.

Interesting indeed, I am glad you brought this back up. :)

 

[mkrnhr]

The threads have been merged :)

 

[Henchman 21]

Gotta six on it. I think I'm a bit more narcissistic than that but whatever computers don't lie so I'll take it. ;D