What can one do for severe depression, esecially when one has children to take care of? 8 years of what I thought was a solid relationship, with a 6-year-old & a 7-month-old, & now betrayal, lies, & all that good stuff. I guess I'm running my most productive (for 4d STS) programs right now; they're probably gorging themseves on me. I realize this. BUT I CAN'T SEEM TO STOP IT & I feel as tho its killing me emotionally. I mean, my kids...I wanted them to have a stable home with the "original" line up of mommy & daddy. I'm will to walk thru fire for them. But I'm so hung up on the loyalty & trust thing (program) that all systems are haywire...I do apologize for my uncouth over-emotional impulsiveness with this post, but SOTT is like a haven for me, & I have no one else really. I expect criticsm for this outburst, but perhaps somewhere there'll be some words I can grasp onto...
Asking For Advice Or Words Of Solace Please...
- Thread starter Ominous
- Start date
Hi Ominous,
As advice, you could go in for psychological counseling - a heart to heart talk with a psychologist or psychiatrist may help you to open out about the problems you are facing and also allow you to see your problems in a fresh light, and find solutions to problems you may have not been able to do earlier.
ael
As advice, you could go in for psychological counseling - a heart to heart talk with a psychologist or psychiatrist may help you to open out about the problems you are facing and also allow you to see your problems in a fresh light, and find solutions to problems you may have not been able to do earlier.
ael
It depends on the severity, but if it's really driving you nuts then I'd recommend finding a good psychotherapist and making sure you're getting enough sleep. Also avoid antidepressants.Ominous said:
Whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Having said that, I recommend cutting down on all this self pity. Don't take what is happening "to you" so personally and try not to identify with "poor me, boohoo" attitude. Don't even see it as happening "to you" - it's just happening, you just happened to be there. It helps to remember that we're all machines, which includes our families. Any illusions you had about your partner are just that, illusions. There was never any guarantee of stability/security/permanence/"love" - any illusion of such things was just that, a feel-good lie you told yourself. Machines have no capability to make any kind of choice like that - the choice was made by some little "i" for its own self-important reasons, and now another "i" for its own self-important reasons is making a different choice - just like that. Just because you thought the previous choice was made for some "greater" reason and something deep and meaningful was driving it, doesn't make it true.Ominous said:
Again, you were anticipating what cannot be anticipated because of your desire to believe a lie about yourself, about your partner, about your family, and about "life itself". This is of course normal, but it is also the reason that you're so shocked right now.Ominous said:
Again, more illusions that you chose to believe - but they never existed. Your partner is doing what they were always prone to do at any moment - you just chose to ignore that possibility and pretend it wasn't there, you saw only what you wanted to see about your partner, hence your shock.Ominous said:
And I'm not trying to be "cold" nor do I lack sympathy for your situation, I'm simply being honest and offering advice that won't just feed your ego and self-importance (self pity), but something that you can use to get a grip on yourself and address the situation more appropriately with respect to efficient utilization of energy and working for your own destiny.Ominous said:
Yes, you had an emotional shock, and you have to give it time for it to heal. But this is also an opportunity to learn why you're having this shock, what are the illusions involved, and how to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. Your emotions and self-pity will hamper critical/objective thought about your situation, so keep that in mind. Plus, I'm sure your kids won't benefit from someone who is not thinking clearly due to so much self-importance and emotions going haywire. If you're going to be making any kind of big decisions that involve your future and their future, I'm sure you understand that it's best if you are clear-headed, objective, and calm.
This is not the end of the world, you cannot anticipate what life situation is ultimately best for your children, but if you're thinking clearly you can make a much wiser decision than if you're emotionally blinded and full of assumptions and anticipation. For example, if you're obsessed with the idea that "2 parents are better than 1 or none" then you may be unable to see that sometimes 2 parents that don't trust one another and only stay together "for the kids" can be much worse - what kind of lesson are you teaching them about what a "relationship" is and should be based on? Then they may very well be much better off with just one parent. Anyway, it's upto you to critically consider the situation and choose. The point is to see situations and people as they really are, because "wishful thinking will get ya every time".
Good luck!
Thank you much for the posts. Its so strange that I can SEE the programs now, as before I couldn't. But yet, it's almost impossible to fight them when the emotions are so strong. I've had anger & drug problems in the past, & getting emotionally out of control scares me because I know it's so EASY to do the selfish "poor me" thing - in the past I'd usually either assault the "other guy," relapse, or turn to "god." But I realize now that NONE of those are viable options. So this leads to feelings of helplessness, that I can't DO anything. And to even think about my son's reaction - it brings me to tears. I have a drug counciler, & an appointment with a psychiatrist Friday. But you suggest no meds? They'd do more damage than good? Again, thank you for listening & apologies if I'm being redundant.
name
Jedi Master
@ominous:
A split-up is always stressful and it is *natural* to go into the 'poor me' posture and see everything dark in such a situation, persons involved in a split-up *are* 'poor' and probably even entitled to a dose of (self-)pity. But it is important to get out of the gloom: life goes on.
In addition to what SAO said: go for long walks outdoors, get lots of sun, try walking barefoot in a forest or in tall grass ... find good friends and/or a good psych to guide you out of the hole at your own pace, and who wont get too involved on the pity aspect of your situation.
And if you really need to take something, try St. Johns Wort as tea, sweeten with honey; and try to stop or reduce smoking and coffee consumption while you are working on this (YMMV as per Anart's post below).
Good luck.
@Anart (you posted while I was editing)
Re smoking: I used to smoke and quit it long time ago - and I've come to see it in retrospect as something which cost me energy, just as coffee. This is why I said that.
A split-up is always stressful and it is *natural* to go into the 'poor me' posture and see everything dark in such a situation, persons involved in a split-up *are* 'poor' and probably even entitled to a dose of (self-)pity. But it is important to get out of the gloom: life goes on.
In addition to what SAO said: go for long walks outdoors, get lots of sun, try walking barefoot in a forest or in tall grass ... find good friends and/or a good psych to guide you out of the hole at your own pace, and who wont get too involved on the pity aspect of your situation.
And if you really need to take something, try St. Johns Wort as tea, sweeten with honey; and try to stop or reduce smoking and coffee consumption while you are working on this (YMMV as per Anart's post below).
Good luck.
@Anart (you posted while I was editing)
Re smoking: I used to smoke and quit it long time ago - and I've come to see it in retrospect as something which cost me energy, just as coffee. This is why I said that.
I didn't mean all meds, I meant antidepressants specifically. But even then, it is your choice. I fully recommend listening to what your doctor suggests and questioning him/her as much as you can about those suggestions - get as much data as you can from your doc. Then do some research yourself and look at what others are saying, what studies have been done, what short and long-term effects have been seen with antidepressants. Once you know exactly what antidepressants are and what they are not, then you can make an informed decision.
It's upto you to find the right solution - but you won't find it if you don't seriously and critically study the "problem".
It's upto you to find the right solution - but you won't find it if you don't seriously and critically study the "problem".
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
I would have to strongly disagree with this statement. Smoking can be quite the lifesaver when it comes to thinking clearly and calming down. In times of extreme stress, there is no reason to 'stop smoking' - why add another 'stressor'? (This is assuming you even smoke in the first place).name said:
I understand that with your past, it's really scary to consider being 'out of control' emotionally - that makes sense. It might be helpful to consider that, in reality, you were more out of control before than you can ever be now since now you are actually starting to see objective reality for what it is - you are now actually dealing with a few facts instead of walking around in a dream. Ultimately, 'assaulting the other guy' and 'turning to god' isn't Doing anything at all - it is just mechanically reacting and self-calming, neither of which get you anywhere in the long run.ominous said:
The counseling is a good idea and as far as 'staying away from meds' - well, for right now, take that with a grain of salt and see where you are after the appointment with the psychiatrist. Yes, I agree that meds are not good (strongly) - however, there are short term, extreme, occasions when they might be beneficial - just make that decision wisely and for the right reasons. No one here can tell you what you should or shouldn't do regarding your own health and safety - all we can do is share our experiences and insights, but it's your life.ominous said:
As far as your son's reaction - this is a difficult thing, but you cannot know what lessons he is here to learn and you can know that living with a pair of dysfunctional parents is often (if not always) much worse than living with just one parent. It's, again, a very complex situation, but just try to keep an even keel for right now and take it a step at a time. fwiw.
Ominous, each situation is unique and only you can see what direction you should take to greet the best outcome for your kids and for yourself. Only you know your situation the best. And only you can assess the seriousness of your situation, whether you can endure stress on your own and still be functional (not deteriorating with kids and work) or better to refer to a psychological councelor. I can speak only for myself – what the hell i would do if having to face situation like yours. You seem to be short circuited now and totally immersed in a pit but here I can very easily downplay seriousness of your situation. I would try (don’t know how successfully) to change perspective, to make a shift from negative short-circuited way of dancing in the bottom of the dark well, to shift a focus from that toward more immediate and little pleasurable goals. Like tomorrow morning the first thing after I get up would be: today I will indulge my kids with divine breakfast I always wanted to cook for them, but never got enough time to do; I would pick up the most vivid favorite cooking recipes book, grab both kids, and start discussing with them what to prepare; then go shopping, and don’t forget to buy these exotic spices, which seem always lacking at the last moment!
Then cook a divine dinner and the oldest kid would be ‘the cook –in-charge’,
After kids sleep well we would go for a long walk in a park, where I will tell them about Cinderella and the Prince. Return home and check mood of kids and then check mine. If nothing changed - tomorrow – for several days we would head for some recreational park, some economy resort, to be with kids, be active, but not at home.
I think if one succeeds to shift a focus from self-pity and dare situation – pity, from yourself, to others – like focusing totally on immediate daily and hourly wellbeing of both kids, new recipes for them, new games, new friends, new places to explore, may be new language for them to learn – that would lift you step by step from that dark well to the light. When you give, especially to kids, universe smiles back. Just two cents, don’t take them seriously.
Then cook a divine dinner and the oldest kid would be ‘the cook –in-charge’,
After kids sleep well we would go for a long walk in a park, where I will tell them about Cinderella and the Prince. Return home and check mood of kids and then check mine. If nothing changed - tomorrow – for several days we would head for some recreational park, some economy resort, to be with kids, be active, but not at home.
I think if one succeeds to shift a focus from self-pity and dare situation – pity, from yourself, to others – like focusing totally on immediate daily and hourly wellbeing of both kids, new recipes for them, new games, new friends, new places to explore, may be new language for them to learn – that would lift you step by step from that dark well to the light. When you give, especially to kids, universe smiles back. Just two cents, don’t take them seriously.
Ominous, if you haven't read the 'Depression as a stepping stone' thread, you may find it helpful:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2832&p=1
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2832&p=1
Also, Ominous, know that many of us have gone through this; I did, too - with five children after 20 years. So I have a really good idea of how you feel. Believe me, it can and does pass and the whole world will seem bright again. It just takes time and some work.
You might want to start off by reading Sandra Brown's book "How to Spot a Dangerous Man." It has a lot of practical advice in there for recovery and taking care of yourself. You don't even have to be a victim of a "dangerous man" to benefit from reading it.
You could also post some of the details of the situation - just what happened - so that we can better know how to offer support.
You might want to start off by reading Sandra Brown's book "How to Spot a Dangerous Man." It has a lot of practical advice in there for recovery and taking care of yourself. You don't even have to be a victim of a "dangerous man" to benefit from reading it.
You could also post some of the details of the situation - just what happened - so that we can better know how to offer support.
Miss Isness
Jedi Master
Hi Ominous,
Grief is a natural reaction to loss, even to the loss of an illusion, but it transforms into something else if you will just feel it. It may sound simple, but for a lot of people it has become almost impossible to cry. It's so much easier to be angry. People often consider crying a weakness, when it is actually a natural way of letting go of what is no longer needed, and cleansing the emotional body.
Before we can heal, we must become aware of the fact that we are suffering because of our illusions and wishful thinking. One way to do that is by having experiences that cause us to feel pain. It is natural to cry when we feel pain. Babies all do it, but as they grow up they are socialized not to. It seems like crying is almost always seen as a form of self pity, which it certainly can be, but it is also a perfectly natural reaction to pain and suffering.
Anyway, I'm not sure if this will be of help, I just wanted to throw it out there just in case.
Grief is a natural reaction to loss, even to the loss of an illusion, but it transforms into something else if you will just feel it. It may sound simple, but for a lot of people it has become almost impossible to cry. It's so much easier to be angry. People often consider crying a weakness, when it is actually a natural way of letting go of what is no longer needed, and cleansing the emotional body.
Before we can heal, we must become aware of the fact that we are suffering because of our illusions and wishful thinking. One way to do that is by having experiences that cause us to feel pain. It is natural to cry when we feel pain. Babies all do it, but as they grow up they are socialized not to. It seems like crying is almost always seen as a form of self pity, which it certainly can be, but it is also a perfectly natural reaction to pain and suffering.
Anyway, I'm not sure if this will be of help, I just wanted to throw it out there just in case.
She & I have almost opposite personalities; she's endowed with more practical common & business sense while I tend to be absent-minded & terrible with money. She is very materialistic & status-minded, whereas I am not. Yet we seemed to compliment each other well. I'm 35, she's 27. She wants to go out partying, I have no use for that anymore. We have a 6-yr-old boy, & just had a 7-month-old girl. I guess I can't expect someone who swears they love me to be honest & faithful, can I? In fact, from what SAO said, that's just me projecting onto someone else my own beliefs. So, in other words, there's no point in trusting anyone because they all have the potential to betray? On top of this, we share a car & both our names are on the house lease. So, I may have to stay there with her until the lease is up in June. Is it possible to shut down my emotions towards her, like she did me? I'd be with my kids daily...She & I could possibly be civil...
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Hi - while I would never presume to tell you what to do in such a personal situation, I did want to at least comment on a couple of things...
Just some thoughts...
I think it might be more accurate to say that you 'saw what you wanted to see' - that you complimented each other well - when the fact of the matter might be the exact opposite. I've done the same thing in relationships - more than once, and it is extremely easy to do - but - the point here is whether you are able to really learn how strong 'wishful thinking' is - and how no matter how much we want/expect/hope someone to be a certain way, they can only be what they are and when we build our lives around who they are not, it eventually hurts a lot. (knowledge protects)Ominous said:
Well, if they are 'awake' and conscious, then, yes you can expect that, but the problem is that almost no one is awake and conscious.o said:
Well, that's not quite how it works. Yes, from the current status of the situation, it was probably you projecting your own 'wishful thinking' onto her - BUT - there are a lot of people out there who are experts at making it really easy to do that (and she might be one of those people) - so try to not be quite so hard on yourself right now. Again, it seems the 'potential to betray' is directly related to how self-aware and awake someone is - it's not the best idea to throw all of humanity out with the bathwater, no matter how much it seems like it fits right now.o said:
Well, it wouldn't hurt to contact the landlord and inquire on that. It would also be a really good idea to get in touch with a lawyer about the shared property - just to find out what your options are and how to protect yourself.o said:
Probably not, and it's not really a good idea anyway.o said:
Sounds like the perfect recipe for some seriously damaged kids. Kids pick up on EVERYTHING - so it might be best for them to protect them by not being there, since from the sound of it, there is no way two parents who do not love each other and are 'being civil' (even if that were possible) is a beneficial thing for their kids.o said:
Just some thoughts...
Telperion
Jedi
Last year I sought professional help to get through a difficult time and I benefited from this choice immensely. I can't imagine what would have happened if I had dealt with those issues alone or simply relied on the advice of well meaning yet non-professional friends. I was prescribed a mild anti-depressant however I didn't like the way it made me feel (sort of robotic) so I ditched the pills and just went to an hour a week, two if I was having a particularly difficult week. Depending on which city/town/area you live in there may be free or reduced cost services if you cannot afford $400.00/hour. Since you have children in your care I strongly urge you to do what is best for their care and safety - take care of your emotional well being first and foremost. Good luck to you.Anart said: