ASTROLOGY

Approaching Infinity said:
Just wanted to add that I thought the virgo/Israel/Dutch thing was interesting. According to her research maladapted virgos are "anxious, hypercritical, obsessed by details, not sociable". Sounds schizoidal to me!

Hey, I resent that! Lol, just kidding. I am on a Leo/Virgo cusp. I found this interesting as well, seeing as how I married a psychopathic Virgo and being one as well (excluding the psychopath part :) ) I have very much analysed the similarities and differences, in my own perspective of this senario. I have always had alot of [close] friends that are either Virgo or Leo as well. Like Stellaria says, maybe I have not identified with psychopaths along the other scopes as well either. Firstly, hopefully I don't offend other Virgos here or let my own ego show through without intention. I think just about all of us have major ego issues. Maybe a mixture of the obsessed by details (being perfectionist) and anxiousness make Virgos analyse situations very thoroughly and ahead of time and social behaviors and manuviors (I know I do). Also, I noticed that Virgos have very EXTREME personalities. Whether it be active, hyper, mean, modest (intro-verted), loving, passionate, or whatever personality their life has given them. Very competetive and always wanting to be the best at everything they do (prolly good for CEO positions). If one has any bad or "evil" in them, they will most likely be the best at it. Maybe the extreme personality has that hypnotic shock effect, where people are suseptible to their spell in the beginning. With my Leo-ness, I have always felt like I was a "laid-back perfectionist" and admired the perfectionism of other Virgo, but specifically noted the extreme behavior. If you ask me it is a recipe for disaster.

If CEOS are spread across the board, then maybe the psychopaths that are Virgos just leave a much worse path of destruction, or deception where they would stand out. I have also known one psychopathic Saggitarius! I have not read into the psychopaths being souless a whole lot yet, but would they be affected the same in the horoscopes, or possibly the psycho Virgos (the ones I know are very Virgo), and maybe just turned extremely STS. Note, some Virgos are extreme into finding spirituality and living in the opposite direction, so don't go burning them at the stake just yet! :scared: :lol:

Lastly, having attracted to another Virgo, possibley psycho, I am glad to be doing an "extreme make-over" (sorry for pun ;)) of my own ego. Being with people (psychos) meerly because they have qualities similair to the ones I admire in myself is nauseating. Reality check, my own ego made/makes me attacted to psychos!
 
Herakles said:
This thread is for the discussion of astrology and sharing related resources.

The topic is vast (the STARS!) so there are many methods, systems, interpretations, how does one know if they are correct?

I will post a few links and articles that I find helpful in coming to grips with the nature of the beast,

e.g. Why is precession important and what exactly is it?

How does the Vernal Point define the Zodiac?

What constellations exist north and south of the Path of the Ecliptic?

Is it only the Zodiac we consider when studying astrology? (The 12 signs commonly referred to as Aries - Pisces)

What do sidereal, tropical and draconic charts demonstrate?

What are the house systems based on and how are they calculated?

What of the Labors of Hercules and Esoteric Astrology?

Some questions for starters....


The Zodiac: Sidereal Vs. Tropical

(originally published in The Mountain Astrologer, 2001)

by Bruce Scofield

Critics of astrology often argue that "astrologers," a loosely defined group that includes dabblers, serious students, and practicing astrologers, are uniformed in regard to the existence of two zodiacs. They may be right about the first group, but certainly not about the second and third. For the past 40 years, at least, most serious astrology books have drawn attention to the tropical-sidereal debate when the topic of the zodiac is discussed. There is no excuse for anyone who considers themselves an "astrologer" today to be ignorant of the existence of this complex issue. However, exactly what are the differences between each zodiac, expecially in regard to symbolic delineation purposes, is a topic that has not been adequately addressed. And so we are still left with a deep and unresolved controversy that haunts our field of study.

The great astrologer Johannes Kepler had a solution to this problem - he basically abandoned the zodiac and built his astrological system around the aspects between the planets. He thought that the zodiac itself was merely a human geometry exercise and primarily served to aid the memory of astrologers as they computed aspects in their heads. To the argument that the zodiac reflects the cycle of the seasons he said "there is no experiment that proves that the twelve signs are divided up into various qualities - especially in view of the fact that in the other (i.e. southern) temperate zone those signs that make us warm would have to be considered cold, and visa versa." (1) Another early scientific astrologer, John Goad, followed Kepler in this regard. In the late 17th century he published a massive study of astro-meteorology in which signs of the zodiac were basically ignored. But the tradition of the tropical zodiac persisted and Kepler's reforms were forgotten.

In the late 60's I discovered that there was a movement in Western astrology that was concerned with reinstating the sidereal zodiac. The Irish astrologer Cyril Fagan began the modern "Siderealist" tradition in the late 1940's with a number of publications that argued strongly for the role of fixed stars in the establishment of the zodiacal framework. He attracted a small group of articulate followers that included Brig. R.C. Firebrace, Donald Bradley, and Rupert Gleadow, all of whom died in 1974, four years after Fagan's death. Bradley (a.k.a. Garth Allen) was a serious researcher who published a number of scientific studies of astrology which proved to his satisfaction that the fixed stars Aldebaran and Antares were positioned at 15 degrees of Taurus and Scorpio, respectively. This put the fixed star Spica at 29 degrees of Virgo. Stars that are said to anchor the sidereal zodiac are called fiducial stars.(2)

Probably the best astrology magazine of the time (and still so today) "American Astrology," had long supported sidereal astrology and frequently ran articles by leading siderealists. As a reader I was intrigued. So I looked into this branch of astrology, reading Fagan, Gleadow, and then tackling Donald Bradley's book on solar and lunar returns. I went right to work; hand-calculating solar returns, quarterly-returns, and demi-returns in both the tropical and sidereal zodiac. Bradley's methodology didn't involve any sign interpretation, it was based primarily on the angularity of planets at the time of the return. So the truth was you really didn't need to convert from the tropical zodiac to the sidereal zodiac, you just needed to account for precession. One thing I found from doing all these returns in both zodiacs was that they both worked - but not necessarily at the same time. I closely followed a series of lunar returns in both zodiacs for several years. Most of the time the tropical zodiac return seemed to be more descriptive of events than the sidereal. But every once in a while, it was the sidereal that clearly symbolized the events of the time. The confusion deepened.

A few years later, at around 11 PM, I ran into to the late A.H. Blackwell, a well-known siderealist, while he was speed-walking a tight arc around Rob Hand's house. Blackwell, who resembled Groucho Marx in some ways, was circuiting the house about every 20 seconds when I caught up to him. We quickly became friends. A.H., as he was known to many, thought of himself as having a stellium in Libra, in the sidereal zodiac, that is. This stellium was in tropical Scorpio, however. Although I strained by brain in trying, I could never see anything remotely Libran in him. A.H's unfortunate and untimely end by cancer was preceded by events like a family member's suicide and very serious martial woes. The battle over his legacy continues to this day. I still can't see any Libra, as I undertand its symbolism, here.

Around this same time I also began to explore what was then called Hindu astrology. We all know that this astrological system (Vedic) uses one or another version of the sidereal zodiac, the slight differences between them being measured by what is called the ayanamsha, the gap between the tropical and sidereal zodiac. The twelve sidereal-based zodiacal signs (rasis) used in this system are not particularly important overall, and they serve more as a background reference plane for planets than as a matrix for personality distinctions. The houses are important, however, but house boundaries between planets will remain roughly constant in a timed birth chart no matter which zodiac is employed. After reading a number of texts on the subject it became apparent to me that Hindu astrology was a tradition that was not concerned with extracting psychological insights from birth charts, it was more event-oriented.

What's really going on here?

Given the above, that both Western and Eastern advocates of the sidereal zodiac did not display any brilliance in the subtleties and dynamics of human personality, I moved on to a study of Dane Rudhyar's ideas on astrology. I was fortunate in even getting to hear him speak in person a year or two before he died. In my opinion, Rudhyar remains the most important astrologer of the 20th century. He had something intelligent to say on just about every issue in astrology, including the sidereal-tropical problem. Rudhyar wrote that the sidereal zodiac, the zodiac of constellations, was a product of the myth-making faculty of the human psyche. These constellations, groupings of stars, are a remnant of an earlier age that saw the rise of agriculture, but they are not relevant to modern life. He felt it was unfortunate that both zodiacs use the same names for their 12-fold division of the yearly circle, and he regarded the tropical zodiac as being the proper framework on which to assess the evolution of mankind. Further, he thought the so-called precession of the zodiac should be viewed in an entirely different way - the constellations should be conceived as moving forward through the zodiac, just as the planets do. For example, today the constellation Pisces could be said to be advancing through the sign Aries.(3)

For many years I asked "why is the notion persist that the sidereal signs of the zodiac actually work separately from those of the tropical zodiac?" My answer has to do with my insight that most people are not able to think clearly or cleanly about astrological typology, i.e. personality differences. On the other hand, I figured that any astrological system could survive as long as it delivered some goods - i.e. working forecasting methodologies which have nothing to do with signs. Here's what I mean in more detail. Consider studies, conducted by skeptical enquirers, in which a group of students are given the same personality delineation and are independently asked to comment on how accurate it is. In general, most report that much of the delineation is true for them. The students, like 99% of the population, have no training in self-knowledge, so they don't really know how to think about themselves and critically analyze an alleged self-description. There are other variations of this loaded anti-astrology experiment that also point to the broad-based lack of psychological insight in our population. (In fact, if anything, that's what these studies really prove, contrary to skeptic's claims that they disprove astrology.) Another observation of mine is that many people who are good at technical astrology are generally not as strong in handling personality delineations, and vice versa. Which relates to the fact that the people I met who were into sidereal astrology were very technical astrologers. So for years I used what I perceived to be a general lack of self-knowledge and penetrating psychological insight among siderealists as a convenient rationale for explaining how the tropical-sidereal debate could go on for so long.

Today I still think most people don't know how to look at themselves in a mirror - so to speak. And I also think that these people should not be allowed to participate in any astrological study that tests the ability to slice personality into thin sections - like the tropical-sidereal debate. So how do we proceed? There are undoubtedly a reasonable number of leading astrologers, some well-known, others not, who have excellent insight into the human condition. It's among this group, if such a group can be sorted out properly, that some kind of study pitting the two zodiacs against each other might be conducted. Oh my, does this smack of elitism! (Then again, not everyone can play the guitar like Hendrix.) Interestingly, among some in the field of astrology, the issue is already settled. I'll bet you can find astrologers who say they know exactly what the difference between the two zodiacs is. I would wonder about these claims - are they basically pushing their agenda by sheer bluff like some priest preaching moral laws based entirely on ancient writings? Who could possibly know with any certainty that the sidereal zodiac is a code for spiritual development or that the tropical zodiac is the key to only that which happens to us on Earth? Does the sidereal zodiac work better for gurus than the tropical? Should we only use the tropical zodiac on the mentally disabled? If I take LSD and raise my consciousness to a "spiritual" level, will I begin to respond to the sidereal zodiac? This is an experiment that I've been meaning to conduct for some time.

Well, I still don't have any authorative word on this thorny subject, thank Uranus. In general though, I agree with Dane Rudhyar's thoughts on the subject. But there are also the studies that have been done. Donald Bradley's work shouldn't be ignored, and it supports a fixed-star oriented kind of astrological influence. Precession correction seems to work sometimes in return charts, for me at least. Rob Hand long ago suggested that precession correction might be applied to transits also. But precession correction is one thing, a separate sidereal zodiac with delineations for the 12 signs closely resembling those for the tropical zodiac (and using the same names) is a much bigger problem, however solvable on an individual basis through the magic of Mercury and Neptune the case may be. Personally, I suppose I can afford to let this side of the problem slide and get on with my life. My natal Sun is in late Cancer, so I'm a Cancer no matter which way you look at it.

Footnotes:

1. Negus, Ken, trans. Kepler's Astrology Excerpts. Princeton, NJ: Eucopia. 1987, p.11.

2. See Fagan, Cyril. Astrological Origins. St. Paul, MN: Llewellyn Publications. 1971, and The Solunars Handbook. Tucson, AZ: Clancy Publications. 1970. Also see Gleadow, Rupert. The Origin of the Zodiac. New York: Castle Books, 1968.

3. See Rudhyar, Dane. Birth Patterns for a New Humanity. The Netherlands: Servire-Wassenaar. 1969. pp. 85 ff. (note: this book was later reprinted under the title "Astrological Timing.")

http://www.onereed.com/articles/sidereal-tropical.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_and_tropical_astrology
http://www.cyberwitchcraft.com/sidereal-tropical.html


Here is a second and in my opinion better rendition of the issue

http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/vp/vedicastrologylesson1siderealtropical.html
Lesson 2:
The Two Zodiacs -
The Great
Sidereal vs. Tropical Debate

by Vaughn Paul Manley, MA
Printer Friendly Version | Email Author | Archive
Discuss This on Vaughn Paul's Message Board
Copyright 2003. All Rights Reserved.


The Two Zodiacs – The Great Sidereal vs. Tropical Debate
It’s important to clearly understand the difference between the two zodiacs, the Vedic/Sidereal and the Western/Tropical, and their perspective places in the world of astrology. Without this understanding it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking one system is superior or inferior to the other and disregard their relative strengths.



The Two Zodiacs
So why two zodiacs anyway? Isn’t one enough? After all, one sky seems to have worked out quite well - thank you very much. God made no mistakes there. One zodiac belt, about 16 degrees wide, with the 12 zodiac signs ranging from Aries to Pisces rising in the eastern horizon - no problems there. It’s just astronomical fact. The stars shine equally on everyone, whether they’re standing in New Delhi or downtown L.A., so why one “Sidereal” zodiac popular in the East and one “Tropical” zodiac popular in the West?

It’s important to realize that both zodiacs are exactly the same in the sense that there are 12 zodiac signs progressing from Aries to Pisces. The elements – fire, earth, air, water; qualities – cardinal, fixed and mutable; and general characteristics associated with each sign are basically the same in both systems. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems.

The classical sign rulerships are as follows: Mars rules Aries and Scorpio, Venus rules Taurus and Libra, Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo, the Moon rules Cancer, the Sun rules Leo, Jupiter rules Sagittarius and Pisces, and Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquarius.

The difference between the two zodiacs, therefore, is not so much in the contents of the zodiacs but in the calculation of the starting point of the 1st degree of Aries.

The 1st degree of Aries
In Western or Tropical astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the spring equinox or March 21st. By extension, if you take out your western ephemeris you’ll note that the beginning of each season is lined up with the Sun passing through each of the cardinal points in the zodiac – Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn. The Tropical zodiac, therefore, is a symbolic system based on the sun earth relationship and is oriented to the seasons.

In Vedic or Sidereal astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Sun actually passing through the observable fixed stars making up the constellation Aries and has nothing to do with the seasons. “Sider” means “star” and therefore sidereal astrology is based on the actual astronomical positions of the planets against the backdrop of the fixed star constellations. The Sidereal zodiac, therefore, is not symbolic but is oriented to an observable phenomenon.

David Frawley writes in his book, The Astrology of the Seers, that “the Sidereal zodiac is probably the original zodiac historically, as it is the observable zodiac. The Tropical, which is an abstract zodiac, must have been derived from it, as all abstractions are usually based on underlying observable things.”

The Precession of the Equinox
An astonishing thing to contemplate is that the ancient Vedic rishis were aware of the fact that the earth changes its tilt or “wobbles” on its axis. Many centuries before the Europeans were debating over whether the earth was flat, the Vedic rishis were figuring out exactly what effect the Earth’s wobble would have on the calculations of their ephemeris’s!

Without the aid of telescopes or modern technology they calculated that the orientation of the equinoxes to the fixed stars precedes or moves backwards through the zodiac at a rate of about 50.3 seconds per year, or about 1 degree every 72 years. That they were actually able to calculate this gives us a clue as to how advanced the ancient Vedic civilization was in terms of mathematical and astronomical knowledge.

This phenomenon is known as the “precession of the equinox”. In other words, where the Sun actually is at the time of the spring equinox moves backward through the zodiac. Sidereally speaking, this year 2003, the sun was at 6 degrees 03 minutes of Pisces, at the spring equinox. Therefore, the current mathematical difference as of March 21st 2003 between the two zodiacs is 23 degrees 57 minutes.

The Ayanamsha
This mathematical difference between the Sidereal and the Tropical zodiacs is called the “ayanamsha” in Sanskrit. As another example, on January 1st 1950, the ayanamsha was at 23 degrees 09 minutes.

However, to further complicate matters there are several commonly used ayanamshas that vary by as much as almost 2 degrees from one another. By far the most commonly used ayanamsha by Vedic astrologers worldwide is the Lahiri ayanamsha, which was given the stamp of approval by the government of India.

The Historical Alignment of the Two Zodiacs
Historically, it’s generally agreed, that the two zodiacs were in alignment with one another about the year 285 A.D. with both ephemeris’s listing the passage of the Sun into Aries at the spring equinox. So what happened? What went wrong?

I don’t know that anything went “wrong”. Obviously, our civilization was just meant to have both zodiacs.

When the Two Zodiacs Will Be Exactly Opposite
Due to the precession of the equinox, the Sun will be at the 1st degree of Libra at the spring equinox in 11,232 years! Mark you calendars! Then we’ll really have a lot of explaining to do with regards to the two systems because they’ll be exactly opposite one another!! The ayanamsha will be 180 degrees 0 minutes!! I’d say it’d be worth it to incarnate at that time just to join in the debate!

The Process of Debating
Let’s face it - we’re basically creatures of habit. We tend to feel comfortable with what we’re used to and resist change. It’s hard to be clear and objective when we feel threatened in any way and it’s easy to dismiss a seemingly opposing viewpoint to save having to expand out of our comfort zones.

I think God gets a lot of mileage out of people debating and facing the stuff that comes up in the process. Take, for instance, how debating is an integral practice in the training of Tibetan Buddhist monks in the qualities of understanding and compassion. Eventually their resistances are broken down and they’re able to contain a broader, more all encompassing viewpoint.

The Debate Today
The debate between the two zodiacs is, of course, centered around one main question: “How can both systems be right?” How can I be, for instance, both an Aries in the Western system and a Pisces in the Vedic system?

It could be argued, first of all, that it’s rather simplistic to identify yourself as only one particular sign like we tend to do in the West. This is more of a recent cultural phenomenon due to the popularization of horoscope columns. In the more distant past, Western astrology was oriented more to the ascendant than the Sun if it had to be limited to one sign. Vedic astrology today favors the emphasis of the ascendant over the Sun as well.

This makes sense because the ascendant is the starting point of the horoscope and the quickest moving indication in the chart so is could be considered more personally associated with your identity or “you”. In practice, the ascendant or 1st house relates more to one’s self, identity and personality traits than any other house.

However, if you asked someone in India “what’s your sign?” they would likely assume you mean their Moon sign, since Vedic astrology is a Moon-based system and it’s primary predictive systems are based on the Moon.

Reasons for the Relevance of Both Zodiacs
The obvious reason why emphasizing one sign is limited is that there are so many potential configurations from which to interpret the same descriptive traits. For instance, your Sun may move from Aries to Pisces in your Vedic chart, but you also may still have three planets in Aries, or Mars in Aries. You certainly would tend to see strong Aries traits in the Vedic chart even though the Sun is not involved.

In fact, in my experience that’s always been the case when I look at the two charts for a particular person. They’ve never contradicted one another looking at the chart as a whole.

Some people say that your Western chart is more “earthy” and represents your personality and your Vedic chart is more “heavenly” and represents your soul. This makes some sense due to the relative vantage points in terms of distance. In other words, the stars are further away than our Sun, which is the closest star.

On the other hand, this seems to imply that your Western chart is more grounded in practical matters on Earth, and your Vedic chart is more spiritual and ethereal. Whereas, the opposite could be argued to be the case because your Vedic chart is related to the actual observable fixed stars and your Western chart is symbolic. This is why some argue that your Vedic chart can be so accurate for prediction with actual events on Earth and your Western chart is better for describing the psychological effects the actual events may have on your psyche.

The Evolutionary Pattern of the Zodiac
I think that what’s important is the realization that the zodiac represents an archetypal evolutionary developmental pattern beginning with Aries and ending in Pisces. As an illustration, the pattern of 12 signs can be visually likened to a clock. If you rotate the clock and get the Sidereal Vedic chart or the Western Tropical chart the clock still works at least symbolically if not literally because it’s based on a true fundamental pattern.

This is why I think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac. Our day to day life on earth is integrally effected by the seasons and so to transpose the zodiac over the seasons – works. The essential qualities of the signs of the zodiac do line up with the Sun passing through the seasons. For instance, the Sun passing into Aries conveys the qualities of spring – active, energetic, vigorous creative new life etc.

Likewise, you could take any developmental pattern and transpose the zodiac. One obvious one would be take the 12 year transit return of Jupiter. Each year is like one sign of the zodiac. The first year when Jupiter is transiting over natal Jupiter is new, energetic and expansive in growth like Aries even though the actual Jupiter return may happen to land in another sign. The twelfth year, like Pisces, has qualities of dissolution and death before the rebirth again with the next Jupiter return.

The Zodiac Wrap Up
Being that the Tropical system is Sun-based the commonly held opinion is that the Tropical system is better at describing the personality and psychological patterns. Whereas, the Vedic system is better at describing the soul nature and predicting actual events because it’s tied to the actual fixed constellations.

And that’s how the reference texts read in practice. The Vedic texts shed very little light on psychological patterns and emphasize prediction whereas it’s just the opposite with the Western reference texts.

I think that the bottom line is that you can get an accurate reading, both in terms of psychological interpretation and prediction, using either system. In the final analysis I think that the accuracy of the system depends more on the astrologer than on the system.

Lesson 1 Exercise:
How to Calculate Your Vedic Chart - Subtracting the Ayanamsha
Obtain a copy of your western chart, if you don’t have one already. Make a list of your planets and their degrees as shown below. Subtract the ayanamsha or 23 degrees from each Tropical planetary position and the ascendant to get their Sidereal position.

Example Calculations:
Tropical Positions Sidereal Positions
Asc: 11 Gemini – 23 = 18 Taurus
Sun: 14 Scorpio – 23 = 21 Libra
Moon: 10 Virgo – 23 = 17 Leo
Mercury: 28 Libra – 23 = 5 Libra
Venus: 8 Libra – 23 = 15 Virgo
Mars: 25 Capricorn – 23 = 2 Capricorn
Jupiter: 9 Pisces – 23 = 16 Aquarius
Saturn: 24 Aquarius – 23 = 1 Aquarius
North Node: 18 Sagittarius – 23 = 5 Scorpio
South Node: 18 Gemini – 23 = 5 Taurus
(Optional)
Uranus: 24 Leo – 23 = 1 Leo
Neptune: 3 Libra – 23 = 10 Virgo
Pluto: 14 Virgo – 23 = 21 Leo

An easy way to do this in your head, if the planet’s degrees are less than 23 degrees in any given sign, is to add 7 degrees and go back a sign. For example, if a planet is at 11 degrees Gemini then add 7 degrees and go back to Taurus. The Sidereal position would be 18 degrees Taurus.

If you want to get the exact position of the planet down to the minute then get out a calculator and calculate the exact ayanamsha of the year and month you were born.

Use the following dates for the ayanamsha as a starting point:

January 1st 1940 - 23 degrees 01 minutes
January 1st 1950 - 23 degrees 09 minutes
January 1st 1960 - 23 degrees 18 minutes
January 1st 1970 - 23 degrees 26 minutes
January 1st 1980 - 23 degrees 34 minutes

Use these approximate figures:

4 minutes 11 seconds per 5 years
1 minute 40 seconds per 2 years
50 seconds per 1 year
4 seconds per month

Thank you for these excerpts Herakles, & SolarMother for Astrology Off the Beaten Track PDFs.
 
obyvatel said:
Hi SMM,
Herakles and Solar Mother are not members of this forum anymore. Regarding astrology, please also take a look at the following threads
Origins of Comets = Origin of Astrology
and
Astrology

Cheers for the pointer obyvatel :)

Was particularly curious about Mayan astrology. The above two threads are full of useful information - all those years spent with limited astrology 'understanding' pale in comparison!
 
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this thread seems eminently suitable. According to Rik, we are due for a violent weekend. He has described it as a 'crazy intense time". Whether it be riots, violence (against the people?) or earth upheavals. The theme of oppression from government is unfortunately a slow moving and ongoing problem which will most likely last well beyond 2020. This is because of the outer planets in Capricorn in the 10th house (Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto - particularly Pluto), as well as other faster moving planets coming in and out of aspect to them.... It's heavy stuff.

 
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but this thread seems eminently suitable. According to Rik, we are due for a violent weekend. He has described it as a 'crazy intense time". Whether it be riots, violence (against the people?) or earth upheavals. The theme of oppression from government is unfortunately a slow moving and ongoing problem which will most likely last well beyond 2020. This is because of the outer planets in Capricorn in the 10th house (Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto - particularly Pluto), as well as other faster moving planets coming in and out of aspect to them.... It's heavy stuff.

Christ. As if the past two weeks weren't filled with enough explosive energy already!

I've had people asking me, "Are you SURE Mercury Retrograde is over?" and "Is there something big going on right now, you know, in astrology?"

To which I always reply that I only keep track of Mercury Retrogrades because it's useful to know beforehand when to shift gears; you can make those periods work for you if you know where to put your focus. -But as for anything else? Heck if I know! I deliberately try not to look at predictions because they stress me out and I end up second-guessing myself rather than engaging honestly in Reality and whatever lessons I have in store for myself.

Astrology is, I find, at its most useful in how it provides a sort of technical manual for the people around me; a glimpse into their inner workings allowing a better read on their moods and behaviors and such. But even that is sometimes not a good thing to know in advance; I find it difficult to not become negatively biased against people born under signs which have burned me in the past. -My behavior then creates openings and unspoken expectations for repeat performances. -Though I still endeavor to learn people's birth dates as I've found it allows me a leg up in terms of establishing strategic enclosures filled with people I know I can work well with and depend on. The benefits outweigh the cost. I think.

None of which is to say that a bit of a warning for upcoming "river rapids" aren't useful. I find it helpful, when things are blowing apart, to know that it's not entirely user error; it provides some comfort to know that things are progressing according to an ordered system overwhich you don't exert much control. The best strategy, I've found, is to not fight it, but rather to surf it.

So thanks for the heads up!
 
I noticed these energies within my family yesterday. There were really intensely negative energies at play, such that I was examining my own transits and my family’s transits and birth charts, which I had collected.
Astrology is such a useful tool. Thanks for the head up, @Woodsman! It‘s a reminder to not take people too personally, be circumspect, not allow yourself to get sucked into the drama, expect shocks, the unexpected (Uranus square Sun), keep your head down, and get your affairs in order ( Pluto, Saturn, Jupiter in Cappie).
Challenging times do grant us opportunities for growth spurts, if we so choose, and forewarned is forearmed.
 
I feel astrology is best used for insight and assistance (i.e a head up) for the individual. Applying it to others can be problematic especially if a person isn't a trained astrologer and also if they had a difficult experience in the past with one particular sun sign. I know this has happened to me. It has led me to wonder if the person giving me 'grief' wasn't actually reflecting back at me something of the shadow within myself.

Also, it occured to me that the 'energy' (of signs) can be both positive and negative in nature, and 'aspects' between planets can be 'easy' or 'challenging'. It's often up to us to make good use of this energy, but most of us (who aren't astrologers) will have absolutely no clue that this energy is even manifesting!

This is one of the reasons I like Rik's presentations, because he can provide a weekly planetary energy summary. This energy is global and will affect people differently according to their own natal charts. Doing a run down weekly, also allows for taking in the position of the moon which represents emotions.

I think, for the majority of people the planetary positions at the moment that are causing the most 'grief' are those 3 planets in Capricorn (Saturn, Jupiter and especially Pluto). They are slow moving and these positions happen very rarely and have other planets coming in and out of aspect to them constantly. So, their 'energy' is long term and intensifies and recedes in accordance to what other planets are doing and also how they impact on each individual's chart.

Because of those planets in Capricorn (represents the government) and also Uranus in Taurus as well as ongoing aspects to Neptune (in Pisces) we have a very long ongoing dire situation for many people on this planet. Many people are feeling emotionally burned out, angry, violent and even suicidal. I "get it", because I have felt like this upon occasion. Fortunately, the moon (which represent our emotions) moves very quickly around the sky. Moods and feelings, especially the negative ones come and go. Unfortunately, those three planets I mentioned in Capricorn are coming up, or have been back and forth over my natal chart moon, so, I have to acknowledge that I'm going to be feeling very down about this situation. Knowledge of my personal chart - especially my relocated chart - has provided me with a lot of insight into how I think and react to what's going on around me.

I think if a person finds a good astrologer, they can discuss areas in their life where they are having difficulties, and talk about positive/potential and reasonable responses to the things that are bothering them.

It's interesting to think that America's Founding Fathers may have used astrology when they set up the Constitution, although there is some debate over when it was signed. This would give America a different rising sign and the houses would be in different positions.

Just my two bits worth.

I think Rik does a very good job about discussing the various energies that are manifesting globally throughout the week.
 
Quite a planetary weather report there. Thanks. Should be interesting to see if and how it plays out
 

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