Atlantis

[seek10]

Since Arcturus is approximately 36.7 light years from Earth and the Cs also said Venus was from 19 light years away, maybe that "near" part needs to be questioned? What does "near" mean to the Cs?

we have to consider solar system travel through space considered during this time - for both our solar system and Arcturus system. This along with angle of movements and 'whole 9 yards' of variables we have no idea. As per Grok, Solar system travels 61.38 light years in 80,000 years.

how much solar system travels in space in 80,000 years in terms of light years?

To determine how far the Solar System travels through space in 80,000 years in terms of light years, we need to consider its motion relative to a specific reference frame, calculate the distance traveled, and convert that distance into light years. Here’s a step-by-step explanation:

### 1. **Understand the Solar System’s Motion**
The Solar System moves through the Milky Way galaxy in an orbit around the galactic center. The primary motion relevant to this question is the Solar System’s orbital velocity relative to the galactic center, as this is the dominant large-scale motion through space. Other motions (e.g., relative to the cosmic microwave background or local stellar neighbors) are less commonly used for such calculations but could be considered for completeness.

- **Orbital Velocity Around the Galactic Center**: The Solar System orbits the Milky Way’s center at an approximate speed of **230 kilometers per second (km/s)**, based on current astronomical data. This is equivalent to about **828,000 kilometers per hour (km/h)** or **2.3 × 10⁸ meters per second (m/s)**.
- **Reference Frame**: For simplicity, we’ll calculate the distance traveled relative to the galactic center, assuming a roughly circular orbit. The actual path is slightly more complex due to the galaxy’s spiral structure and minor perturbations, but a straight-line approximation based on velocity is standard for such estimates.

### 2. **Calculate Time in Seconds**
To compute the distance, we need the time in seconds for consistency with the velocity units.

- **80,000 years**:
- 1 year ≈ 365.25 days (accounting for leap years).
- 1 day = 24 hours × 60 minutes × 60 seconds = 86,400 seconds.
- 1 year ≈ 365.25 × 86,400 ≈ 31,557,600 seconds.
- 80,000 years ≈ 80,000 × 31,557,600 ≈ **2.524608 × 10¹² seconds**.

### 3. **Calculate Distance Traveled**
Distance is calculated as **distance = velocity × time**.

- **Velocity**: 230 km/s = 2.3 × 10⁵ meters per second.
- **Time**: 2.524608 × 10¹² seconds.
- **Distance** = (2.3 × 10⁵ m/s) × (2.524608 × 10¹² s) ≈ **5.8065984 × 10¹⁷ meters**.

### 4. **Convert Distance to Light Years**
A light year is the distance light travels in one year, where the speed of light is **c = 299,792,458 m/s**.

- **Distance light travels in 1 year**:
- 1 year ≈ 31,557,600 seconds.
- Distance = 299,792,458 m/s × 31,557,600 s ≈ **9.46073 × 10¹⁵ meters**.
- **Light years traveled by the Solar System**:
- Distance traveled = 5.8065984 × 10¹⁷ meters.
- Light years = (5.8065984 × 10¹⁷) / (9.46073 × 10¹⁵) ≈ **61.38 light years**.

### 5. **Considerations and Context**
- **Orbital Path**: The Solar System’s orbit around the galactic center takes about **225–250 million years** (a “galactic year”). In 80,000 years, it completes only a tiny fraction of this orbit (80,000 / 225,000,000 ≈ 0.00036 of an orbit). The distance calculated (61.38 light years) is the arc length along this orbit, approximated as a straight-line displacement for simplicity.
- **Other Motions**: The Solar System also moves relative to the Local Standard of Rest (LSR, the average motion of nearby stars) at about 20 km/s, or relative to the cosmic microwave background at ~370 km/s. Using the LSR velocity would yield a smaller distance (~5.3 light years), while the CMB velocity would yield a larger one (~113 light years). The galactic orbit velocity (230 km/s) is the standard choice for such questions.
- **Galactic Context**: The Milky Way’s diameter is ~100,000 light years, so 61.38 light years is a small but significant distance, roughly the scale of a local stellar neighborhood.

### 6. **Final Answer**
The Solar System travels approximately **61.38 light years** through space in 80,000 years, based on its orbital velocity around the Milky Way’s center (230 km/s).

But, As per Grok, the Arcturus system is 1.4 light years further away 80,000 years ago

### Was the Arcturus System Closer to the Solar System 80,000 Years Ago?

Yes, the Arcturus system (centered on the star Arcturus, α Boötes) was closer to our Solar System 80,000 years ago than it is today. Here's a step-by-step explanation of why, based on astronomical data about its position, motion, and relative trajectory.

#### 1. **Current Distance**
- Arcturus is currently about **36.7 light-years** (ly) from the Sun. This is a well-established measurement from missions like Hipparcos and Gaia, with a small margin of error (±0.23 ly).

#### 2. **Arcturus's Motion Relative to the Solar System**
- Arcturus moves at a high **total relative velocity** of approximately **122 km/s** (about 270,000 mph) with respect to the Sun. This is one of the fastest among bright stars, making its position change noticeable over long timescales.
- **Radial velocity** (line-of-sight component toward/away from us): **-5.24 km/s**. The negative sign means it's approaching the Solar System (blueshifted in spectra).
- **Transverse velocity** (sideways motion across the sky, from proper motion): About **121.4 km/s**. Its proper motion is **~2 arcseconds per year**, the highest among first-magnitude stars after α Centauri.
- This velocity vector indicates Arcturus is on a path that brings it **toward** the Solar System, passing relatively close before receding.

#### 3. **Trajectory and Closest Approach**
- Arcturus is currently **near its closest point** to the Solar System. It will reach **periastron** (minimum distance) in about **4,000 years** from now (around AD 6025), when it will be only a few hundredths of a light-year closer (e.g., ~36.68 ly)—a tiny change due to the vast scale.
- This means **over the past 80,000 years**, Arcturus has been **approaching** us. It was farther away in the past and is still getting slightly closer.

#### 4. **How Much Closer Was It 80,000 Years Ago?**
To quantify the distance change, we calculate the **radial displacement** over 80,000 years using the radial velocity. (The transverse component contributes to the sideways shift but has a minimal direct effect on distance over this short timescale compared to the overall separation.)

- **Time interval**: 80,000 years ≈ 2.5246 × 10¹² seconds (using 1 year ≈ 31,557,600 seconds).
- **Radial approach distance** = radial speed × time = (5.24 km/s) × (2.5246 × 10¹² s) ≈ 1.323 × 10¹⁶ meters.
- Convert to light-years: 1 ly ≈ 9.461 × 10¹⁵ meters, so ≈ **1.40 ly**.

**Step-by-Step Calculation**:
- Speed in m/s: 5.24 km/s = 5,240 m/s.
- Distance = 5,240 × 2.5246 × 10¹² ≈ 1.323 × 10¹⁶ meters.
- Light-years = 1.323 × 10¹⁶ / 9.461 × 10¹⁵ ≈ **1.40 ly**.

- **Distance 80,000 years ago** ≈ current distance + radial displacement = 36.7 ly + 1.40 ly = **38.1 ly**.

This is an approximation assuming constant velocity (valid for 80,000 years, as gravitational influences are negligible over such a short galactic timescale). The actual change is slightly less due to the orbital geometry (the radial velocity peaks at closest approach), but the order of magnitude holds: it was **~1.4 ly farther away** 80,000 years ago.

#### 5. **Context and Implications**
- **Timescale Perspective**: 80,000 years is brief in astronomical terms—less than 0.04% of Arcturus's age (~7.1 billion years) or the Solar System's orbital period around the galactic center (~230 million years). The stars won't collide; their paths are skewed, and the minimum separation remains ~36.7 ly.
- **Visibility**: 80,000 years ago, Arcturus would have appeared slightly dimmer (magnitude ~−0.04 vs. today's −0.05) due to the greater distance, but still one of the brightest stars in the sky.
- **No Collision Risk**: Even at closest approach in 4,000 years, it's safely distant. In another ~500,000 years, it will recede enough to fade from naked-eye visibility.

#### Connection to Your Previous Question
Your prior query about the Solar System's travel distance (61 ly in 80,000 years at 230 km/s orbital speed) aligns here: Both systems move through the galaxy, but Arcturus's relative velocity (122 km/s) drives the changing separation. If you're exploring stellar dynamics (e.g., for data modeling or simulations), this highlights how proper motion and radial velocity data from Gaia can predict past/future positions.

In any case, C's said Venus as a "Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.". i.e. it is not bounded by Arcturus system and it is 'near' Arcturus ( probably it is not from Arcturus system). I guess there are so many disturbances in the solar system, we may not be aware of all these variables OR
Long Long time before 80K YA , Venus as a rock nearer Arcturus, later floated around during its the interstellar travel.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Q: (L) Where did Venus originally come from?

A: 19 light years away.

Q: (L) So, it is actually an extra-solar system visitor?

A: Yes. [31]

Venus may originally come from 19 lights years away (more or less, we are not sure), it does not mean that Venus could not have been at a certain time a moon of Kantek, IMHO. In absolute terms, the answer indicates that Venus is “basically” an extra-solar system visitor, but does not tell us since when exactly Venus has been in the Solar System. Or so it seems to me.

Q: (L) Where did Venus get all its gases and clouds and so forth? What was its origin? Where did it get all this stuff?

A: Collected during fiery, friction filled journey and space matter in general.

Q: (L) Where was Venus originally from?

A: Ancient wanderer from near Arcturus.

About the first answer in bold, could all this 'stuff" have been collected during its journey which could include the explosion of Kantek? A journey of approximately 79,000 years through the Solar System allows for a great deal of matter to accumulate, IMHO, especially with all the ones resulting of an explosion occurring to a close, and bigger planet.
So, could Venus have first been ejected to the outer Solar System because of the Kantek explosion 79,000 years ago before returning much later to the inner Solar System with all the consequences we know?

And about the second answer in bold, could Venus have been, at first, an ancient wanderer from near Arcturus, like a very very long time ago, ("originally") whatever that means in terms of distance at the time or today, before to be attracted in the Solar system, then attracted by Kantek (naturally or not?), and then be throwned out of its orbit, and transformed into a comet because of its mother-planet explosion, and then traveling through the Solar system, acting like a comet, making seven close passages on Earth, and finally stabilizing between Earth and Mercury at the end of its "odyssey"?

 

[axj]

Long Long time before 80K YA , Venus as a rock nearer Arcturus, later floated around during its the interstellar travel.

Exactly, and since Venus was an ancient wanderer, it must have taken a while to travel the 19 ly from where Arcturus apparently was back then in relation to the solar system.

Venus may originally come from 19 lights years away (more or less, we are not sure), it does not mean that Venus could not have been at a certain time a moon of Kantek, IMHO.

The C's did say that Venus arrived 1000 years before the destruction of Kantek, but also that Venus was not involved in its destruction:

Q: (L) When did Venus enter the solar system?

A: 80000 years approximately.

Q: (L) How many close passes to the earth did Venus make?

A: Seven.

Q: (L) Was Venus involved with the planet Kantek which you said exploded due to psychic energies generated by its inhabitants?

A: No.

Q: (L) What was that planet known as?

A: Kantek.

Q: (L) When did that planet break apart into the asteroid belt.

A: 79 thousand years ago approximately.

So for a thousand years both Kantek and Venus were in the solar system, which is even more surprising than if Venus arrived shortly after - if there is something like 'cosmic balance' involved in a similar planet arriving just as another one is on the verge of being destroyed.

 

[seek10]

Exactly, and since Venus was an ancient wanderer, it must have taken a while to travel the 19 ly from where Arcturus apparently was back then in relation to the solar system.


The C's did say that Venus arrived 1000 years before the destruction of Kantek, but also that Venus was not involved in its destruction:



So for a thousand years both Kantek and Venus were in the solar system, which is even more surprising than if Venus arrived shortly after - if there is something like 'cosmic balance' involved in a similar planet arriving just as another one is on the verge of being destroyed.

session-18-october-1994

Q: (L) Is the solar system sort of a giant atom?

A: No. But similar; remember your atomic knowledge is still mostly theoretical.

Q: (L) Could the orbits of the planets be described as energy 'shells' such as the shells occupied by the various electrons around an atom?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Does the solar system, at different points in time absorb or emit energy and do planets move from one shell to another? And, does the nature of the solar system change what it "is" by adding or taking away bodies?

A: First, if a solar system adds or subtracts bodies then of course it changes. Next, the fundamental changes occur as a result of interaction with outside forces.

If Kantek is going to get destroyed, 'some body' ( probably 5D+ STO forces) has to introduce new body some way ( from a place where there is no time) so that solar system trajectory is not altered for the sake of critters on this solar system ( 1D to 6D). All this because of some 3D beings on a single planet chose to destroy themselves.
...

Q: (L) What outside forces?

A: Plane convergence.

Q: (L) What is plane convergence?

A: What will happen to earth.

Q: (L) Is this going to happen soon?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Is this plane convergence a phenomenon that occurs frequently in the universe, galaxy or solar system?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What is it caused by or manifested by?

A: Passing through realm border.

Q: (L) What is a realm border?

A: Too complex.

Even the planets gets added every 300K years. Our 'great' science talk about 100's of millions of years for plate tectonics so that rulers can show their 'self importance'. i.e. every thing changes so much so fast, it is unbelievable.

 

[seek10]

Here is a video from Randall carlson and Graham Hancock. Carlson visited Azores with some other scientists and zoologists and thinks Azores is part of Atlantis (that is the locus of Atlantean civilization) and cites Plato's description. He goes into some expeditions in 40's and 50's and their findings that proves that. Ex: In 40's there was a boat expedition named 'Atlantis' that found beach sand 100 meters below the water ( as a proof that it was a beach in the recent past).

 

[axj]

Here is a video from Randall carlson and Graham Hancock. Carlson visited Azores with some other scientists and zoologists and thinks Azores is part of Atlantis (that is the locus of Atlantean civilization) and cites Plato's description. He goes into some expeditions in 40's and 50's and their findings that proves that.

It seem that Randall just repeated in more concise form what he already presented years ago in his Atlantis series - the first 10 or so Cosmographia videos on his channel. Did his trip to the Azores result in any new findings?

 

[seek10]

It seem that Randall just repeated in more concise form what he already presented years ago in his Atlantis series - the first 10 or so Cosmographia videos on his channel. Did his trip to the Azores result in any new findings?

I might have watched few of cosmographia series videos and some I haven't. So It is hard to say whether this is new or not. W.r.t the size of Atlantis C's mentioned, I suspect his depictions ( or his findings) of Atlantis is from the last phase of Atlantis ( after 26K BCE destruction).

 

[irjO]

Hello, I found this video on YouTube from Johnny Harris. I like the way he produces archeological content, but there is this particular video from his called The Lost City of Atlantis Explained. In this, he refers the location of Atlantis to a series of maps drawn by a Scottish banker/anthropologist who is also a medium named William Scott-Elliot and through channeling, he wrote a book and created a map along with to explain the evolution of Atlantis.
Although even the entire video could be a big add for these maps sold by the YouTuber, what is described aligns en many things with what the Cs has also said about this pre-deluvian civilization.

Here is the video:

Key points covered in the video include:

• Plato's Atlantis (1:34): Originally, Plato used the concept of Atlantis as a parable in his texts, not a literal place. He described it as a utopian society with advanced technology and a powerful military, located beyond the Pillars of Hercules.
• The Re-emergence of Atlantis (4:04): In the 1800s, with the rise of scientific discovery and the finding of "lost cities," the idea of Atlantis gained popularity. People began to question how distant civilizations, like the Egyptians and Mayans, developed similar structures such as pyramids without communication. This led to the theory of a single, advanced civilization, possibly Atlantis, from which all this knowledge stemmed.
• William Scott-Elliot's Maps (9:00): The video highlights four maps created by William Scott-Elliot in the late 1800s and early 1900s. These maps depict Atlantis at various stages of its existence, claiming it was a circular city with advanced engineering and a unique Atlantean race that existed a million years ago. Scott-Elliot's theories were based on spiritual clairvoyance blended with scientific factoids, presenting Atlantis as a highly sophisticated civilization with advanced technology and even "flying battleships."
• Catastrophes and Dispersal (12:35): Scott-Elliot's maps explain that global catastrophes, including ice ages and a massive flood (like Noah's Ark), led to Atlantis sinking completely by 9564 BC. Before its demise, Atlanteans supposedly fled across the world, spreading their advanced knowledge and explaining the similarities in ancient civilizations.
• The Aryan Race Connection (13:59): Disturbingly, Scott-Elliot also claimed that the descendants of these Atlanteans became the Aryan race, which he considered the most advanced civilization. This idea unfortunately endured into the 1930s and was adopted by figures like Heinrich Himmler of Nazi Germany, who funded archaeological expeditions to prove the existence of a superior ancient civilization, using the Atlantis myth to justify heinous acts of violence.
• Atlantis Today (17:05): The video concludes by emphasizing that there is no scientific evidence for the existence of Atlantis. While the story remains tempting and is perpetuated in various forms of media.

These are the original maps the video reference to, the red areas were how the continents looked like and the second is how it was right before the Younger Dryas:

Not sure if it was previously mentioned in this thread. The book is called The Story of Atlantis by William Scott-Elliot, will begin to read it shortly.

Edit: it seems the book is free for kindle which is nice!

 

[seek10]

I saw those maps from the Fear Channel Root Race series created by guy named Philip Alexander. Those are from Blavatsky follower Elliot Scotts depiction. Johny harris using those maps. C's said Blavatsky material is from both 6D STS and STO. some issues with those maps w.r.t C's material.

• C's gave date of 68K BCE for the major tectonic realignment (most probably due to after affects of Kantek explosition, including the volcano explositions). Adding this C's data point to the map is like throwing cat into group of pigeons. So we need to collect the pigeons and see where it fits. We may not have all the necessary data to create a coherent map. If we choose do it, we have to make snapshot of earth's geography at 100K , 68K , 10.9K(before YD and after- 7 degrees tilt, sliding of the hudson bay, Thawing poles for energy etc.), after that at different periods.
• Philip Alexander explained his thought process in his Fear Channel video. He overlapped information from certain sources ( Blavatsky, her follower William Scott-Elliot , Cayce, Tectonic plate theory). One has to keep in mind that each influenced each other. Blavatsky influenced Elliot Scott and Cayce and later tectonic plate theory has some influence from Elliot Scott.

Here are Fear Channel Root Races videos. There are quite a few nuances to it. I will put my comments ( or questions) in separate posts. I wanted to do this for the last 2 years, but dragging my feet.

The First Root Race: The Polarians

The Second Root Race: The Hyperboreans

The Black Magicians of Atlantis

The World After Atlantis and The Atlantean Language

Philip Alexandar said he will create next part, but I could never find it. Probably he never created.

 

[axj]

C's gave date of 68K BCE for the major tectonic realignment (most probably due to after affects of Kantek explosition, including the volcano explositions).

One thing I realized about the closest Venus flybys (probably much later) is that it is the "easiest" mechanism for major rearrangement of continents, especially as far as which ones rise or sink.

Venus has a similar mass to Earth and if it flew too close it would have ripped apart the Earth crust with enormous tidal forces - stretchening the Earth crust hundreds of kilometers up. It could have also easily destabilized the Moon orbit.

Since this apparently didn't happen, the closest Venus flybys were probably not too close - maybe 5-10 Moon distances. Which is still close enough to for example lift up the Andes or making other landmasses sink. The Younger Dryas might have had one of the closest Venus flybys.

There are also ancient reports from China and elsewhere that people saw Venus shining as bright as the Sun. That was probably during the final not too close approaches as it settled into its current orbit.

One interesting thing is that according to the C's the largest object in the comet cluster has the size of the dwarf planet Ceres. However, even if there are 1000 such bodies in the comet cluster, its mass would still be a tiny fraction of the Venus or Earth mass. So at least the tidal forces from close comet cluster flybys were much smaller.

 

[Wandering Star]

There are also ancient reports from China and elsewhere that people saw Venus shining as bright as the Sun. That was probably during the final not too close approaches as it settled into its current orbit.

There's something really weird about Venus.

According to the C's it arrived in the solar system a couple of thousand years before the destruction of Kantek.

The sixth density social memory complex channeled by Carla (Ra) into the Law of One, stated in one of the sessions that Venus was their planet of origin, but that they were no longer in Venus.

There's something really weird about that planet.

 

[irjO]

The sixth density social memory complex channeled by Carla (Ra) into the Law of One, stated in one of the sessions that Venus was their planet of origin, but that they were no longer in Venus.

Maybe in a different density? Cs said that all planets are or were inhabited in higher densities. If Venus used to be a comet, that would explain its strangeness. I can only imagine what close passes of it must have looked like in the sky, I could imagine the feeling of the mix of fear and fascination people must’ve felt each time it appeared.

 

[Wandering Star]

Maybe in a different density?

Well, what Carla channeled is about "people" of sixth density, so given that Venus was Ra's home planet, it's possible that in third and fourth density Ra was doing things in our solar system, including Kantek and Earth.

Even at this very moment.

The connection I see between Venus and its arrival in our solar system is the session with the C's where they talk about how what our scientists don't take into account is the possibility that an "extraterrestrial" society travels on a celestial body (a huge ship) and then, after establishing a stable orbit, the people on that ship proceed to establish bases on the planets of the solar system and carry out the conquest after a long, patient, and grand manipulation of the existing societies.

We know that Kantek, possibly according to the C's, was a very advanced STS, so who knows, perhaps they decided to fight to the fullest against the invader, which resulted in the destruction of their planet.

Many unknowns, but without a doubt the arrival of Venus changed many things.

 

[irjO]

Just for fun, and because I'm a very visual person, I recreated this world map pre-younger dryas based on a few details from Piri Reis' map, William Scott's map and other ice ages world map I found online based pre Younger Dryas data, I think is a nice mix of all maps. so this could be a bit similar to how the world looked like around 14000 - 13000 BC

 

[Gaby]

The following study raises the possibility that the landmass was thriving as far as "Atlantean times". Dating seems to be iffy, but they seem to be surer about the sinking event, which puts it closer to the times of "When Troy Once Stood". FWIW:

'We got evidence of boars, deer, bears, aurochs': Ancient DNA reveals sunken realm Doggerland had habitable forests

A map of Doggerland 18,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago and 8,000 years ago. The landmass was fully inundated around 6,000 years ago, according to the new study. (Image credit: University of Bradford Submerged Landscape Research Centre & Nigel Dodds)

Doggerland is named after a large sandbank in the North Sea called Dogger Bank, which references a type of medieval Dutch fishing boat called a dogger.

Oaks (Quercus), elms (Ulmus) and hazel trees (Corylus) thrived for millennia in southern Doggerland, where the new study was conducted, before the landmass disappeared. Previous estimates suggest Doggerland was fully inundated by 7,000 years ago, but the new results indicate this may have happened closer to 6,000 years ago. Researchers reconstructed the region's long-lost terrestrial ecosystem using DNA that was preserved in dirt under the sea for thousands of years, known as ancient sedimentary DNA.


"We got evidence of boars, deer, bears, aurochs," study lead author Robin Allaby, an evolutionary geneticist and professor of genomics at the University of Warwick in the U.K., told Live Science. "To my knowledge, it's the largest sedimentary DNA study that's been done."

Allaby and his colleagues analyzed 252 samples from 41 cores that they drilled up from beneath the North Sea off the coast of England. Specifically, the researchers took the cores along the prehistoric, 20-mile-long (30 kilometers) Southern River, situated in what was once southern Doggerland.

Researchers have long known that Doggerland was forested before it was inundated by the North Sea. But the ages of those forests were unclear, so scientists assumed that they appeared around the same time as forests in Britain. The consensus prior to this new research was that 16,000 years ago, southern Doggerland was tundra (a dry, treeless plain), not forest, Allaby said. At that time, ice sheets reached down to what is now the border between Scotland and England, he added.

The researchers analyzed sediments in the cores and separated them into two categories: secure and insecure. Secure sediments were fine silts and clays that contained ancient DNA from species that lived in the area where the core was taken. Insecure sediments were coarser sand and gravel that contained ancient DNA that was shed far from where the core was extracted, meaning this DNA was not useful to reconstruct the local ecosystem.

"That just makes perfect sense," Allaby said, as "DNA doesn't survive long in water." Sediments are usually transported and deposited in fluid, with slow-moving waters picking up only fine sediments and fast-moving, higher-energy waters shifting coarser sediments. Slow-moving waters can transport sediments carrying DNA only short distances before the DNA quickly degrades. Fast-moving waters, on the other hand, can transport sediments with DNA much farther before it disintegrates.

This means that when the researchers found fine sediments with ancient DNA in the cores, that DNA was likely to have been shed locally. DNA in coarse sediments was probably from upstream ecosystems. Therefore, "we could pick out the samples which we would not trust to be telling us about the local environment," Allaby said.


Ancient DNA in secure sediments showed that temperate trees and forest animals lived around the Southern River starting about 16,000 years ago, when much of Northwest Europe and Britain was still covered in tundra. Remarkably, the researchers identified DNA from a walnut relative (Pterocarya) that was thought to have gone extinct from the region 400,000 years ago. The team also found traces of warmth-loving lime trees (Tilia), suggesting that southern Doggerland was milder than the surrounding regions during the last ice age.

"Our knowledge is very imprecise, as it turns out," Allaby said. "This is not pure tundra — there is enough of an environment here to sustain something that looks like a forest."

The results, published March 10 in the journal PNAS, indicate that Stone Age people would have had "plenty to live on" in southern Doggerland after ice sheets retreated from the area about 21,000 years ago, Allaby said. "We can predict where good places for settlement would be, and typically at the mouths of rivers is the place to go, because you're close to resources."

The findings could also help resolve Reid's paradox, which describes the mismatch between seed dispersal rates and how quickly trees like oaks recolonized northern regions from farther south after the last ice age, the researchers said. Southern Doggerland or another nearby region, such as northern France, may have been a glacial "microrefuge" for temperate trees, enabling species to spread north much faster than they could have done if they had survived only on the Iberian Peninsula, for example.

Finally, the study indicated that the North Sea fully submerged southern Doggerland around 6,000 years ago, which is at least 1,000 years earlier than previous estimates of when the landmass was inundated.

"It's another highlight of the imprecision of what our knowledge is of this landscape," Allaby said. "It really is a frontier."