Atreides and "The List"

mada85

The Living Force
Laura's NOTE:
This thread has been split off from the 12 December 2010 Session discussion. It was at that session that we inquired about a sickness that had fallen on many of us in the Chateau following a meeting of group members here in France: Paleofest. The "bug" led to two members of our household becoming seriously ill and one of them, Atriedes, my son, nearly died. It was from these experiences that we learned a LOT more about diet and health than we had previously taken onboard. As a result, we made further experimental adjustments to our diet and did more research which we have subsequently shared here on the forum and on sott.net.

Since I refer to this learning experience now and again, I thought it would be useful to consolidate the posts that reference it into a single thread. It is helpful to read the session thread linked above first, but even without doing that, one can catch on quickly in this thread alone.


Mrs Tigersoap said:
I'm probably understanding this my (limited) way, but I've been a bit discouraged lately when I see people with whom I can sometimes speak about some 'SOTT subjects'. I thought that they seemed interested, that they would go and check for themselves, read the books, apply some diet principles, mainly because they're asking lots of questions and seem to have 'aha' moments. And now I see that they are either rejecting and ignoring the data, finding excuses not to apply the diet, etc. It's discouraging and disheartening. I know it's never lost, but in these particular cases, I wonder if I have not been 'had' and that it was just a way to make me lose a lot of time and energy...

It's nothing new for people on this forum, but it does take a lot of energy to try and keep ourselves awake, following the diet, doing the EE and generally helping in different ways while leading a 'normal' life. And trying to awaken some people who are actually having a good time sleeping could just be the straw that broke the camel's back. Am I understanding this in a too limited way?
I don't think your understanding is too limited here, Mrs T – you have put your finger right on an important point osit. I have noticed the same thing. People ask questions, they may agree with a description of those in power as lacking conscience. They may comment that I look really well but when I explain that this is because I follow our dietary guidelines, they will dismiss this as 'Oh, he eats all that healthy food,' – as if they have no choice but to eat what they eat. It's most odd and a little disconcerting.

People often don't seem able to make simple connections e.g. between my degree of health compared to theirs and the diet I follow, or the fact that I haven't had a cold for a long time, when they clearly have had, and then completely ignore information about stopping colds and flu with ascorbic acid. They seem to just switch off or delete the information from their conscious awareness. Having said that, it will actually be really painful to stop these kinds of efforts (if indeed that becomes necessary for my strategic enclosure) as I do want to help people. It is rather frustrating knowing that simple means within everyone's reach are available to improve health and mental and physical functioning. Another example: I spent some time a few weeks ago describing my diet, and the effects of gluten and dairy in particular, to a woman in her late 40s who is very overweight and who really wants to slim down. She is an intelligent woman and seemed genuinely interested and fascinated by what I was telling her, and said that she would try to change her diet to this different way of eating. I have just heard that she is seriously considering paying to have a gastric band fitted!! The phrase 'pearls before swine' comes to mind, but when I see people suffering, with help so close at hand, I find it difficult not to make suggestions which, if acted upon, could be of help.

But I do agree with you, Mrs T, that it appears to be a drain of energy but then one never knows when such seeds may bear fruit. The problem is that if one waits to be asked for such information, one may never be asked as people generally don't think of asking!
 

Mrs.Tigersoap

The Living Force
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

BTW, I just wanted to add to Ailén: when you told me you were sick, I thought you had caught a cold recently. I had no idea you were still sick from Paleo!! OMG, you've been sick all this time?? :O What a nasty bug indeed!

Get well soon, Atréides and Ailén!

Endymion said:
The phrase 'pearls before swine' comes to mind, but when I see people suffering, with help so close at hand, I find it difficult not to make suggestions which, if acted upon, could be of help.
Same here. On the one hand, I cannot help but give the info I know about diet, etc. to people who are asking me how to get better(especially as a kinesiologist). And then, I inevitably see that it was to no avail. Sometimes I do spend a lot of time for clients or friends, reading through material, making personalized summaries for their condition, typing everything, sending them the data on their emails. Usually they don't even bother to acknowledge the reception of the email, let alone put anything in practice. I feel really stupid for doing all this, actually.
Then they come for another session and complain that they don't improve that much, or (if they're friends), they see me and pretend the conversation never happened. Just yesterday, I saw a friend who has a bad knee and we had talked a while ago about gluten. He had limited his intake and felt a bit better but never stopped altogether. He's getting operated on soon and I asked about his gluten intake and he told me, like I'm such a moron for believing that the two could be connected: 'Pff, one has nothing to do with the other! Absolutely nothing."

He's the same person who started the EE program but found Laura's voice too annoying... Come on!
 

Bluestar

Jedi Council Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Thank you all for this very important session. I hope that all that are still feeling the effects of the paleovirus feel better soon.

There were many insightful posts from this session and lots to think about.

Mrs.Tigersoap said:
Perceval said:
I suppose the point I am making is that it is a rare breed of person who is motivated to take on both the basic challenges of the reality of normal life AND attempt to face into and fix the problems of reality on a global (or larger) scale. And I'm not sure there are enough.
Absolutely. FWIW, I never even went as far as thinking the people I was talking to would change so drastically. I was just proposing to quit gluten and dairy. And that's apparently already too much.

I may be way off, but maybe we don't need more people 'on board'. Maybe we are enough. Gurdjieff was talking about 200 conscious people. Aren't there 200 people on this forum doing the diet, the EE, having read (almost all) the books, trying to remember themselves as much as possible, i.e. doing the Work?
So maybe we 'just' need to clean our machines better (maybe even in ways we have not thought of yet?) and stop wasting time with people who cannot/will not be awoken? Especially since we might not get to stay in contact with each other for very long.
In relation to this line of thought, for many years I have brought to the table of the people I know, many various foods for thought. Including diet, meditation and prayer like EE and conversations of topics that are discussed here on the forum. The observation and conclusion I have come to is that many people just can not absorb the info or choose not to because they have too many distractions. They can not grasp the fact that diet is what makes us feel the way we do. Even by being a living example, the subject is brushed off or negated. So what I have done is try and I mean try because I have not mastered this, is not have attachments to it. I still feel for them, but am not going to beat myself up against a brick wall if they do not take heed the message. Nor will I stop suggesting things for people that come across me that are asking a general question of "why is this happening to me?"

If just one person can benefit from the message spread about diet, EE and such then maybe we have done a good job.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Just wanted to make a few notes about the "bug". Several of us had rather mild cases that seemed to be over pretty quick except for an ongoing coughing/clearing that wasn't TOO bad. But the main symptom seemed to be depression that was almost paralyzing. It's been so bad that we didn't get our tree decorated until yesterday because nobody wanted to do it. (And we usually do it on the 1st of December.)

I heard from the Canada crew that it hit them pretty bad there when Galahad returned sick and it was suggested that it might be bacterial instead of viral because of certain clues. I think that is correct because of the way it then went on to attack in particular ways.

It went on in the background with Ailen and Atriedes, both of whom have autoimmune conditions that are controlled by diet. But apparently, this thing aimed for their physical weak spots and they both came down with infected organs, different for each, but horribly painful. Doxycycline seems to have knocked it out - along with total fasting for a few days to calm everything down. The fact that the doxycycline had a positive effect suggests that it was bacterial and not viral.

What is curious, as I said, was the depression - it's like the darn bug was eating neurochemicals or producing nasty ones. I wasn't too sick (it was rough for about three days) and I actually was coming down with it (though I didn't know it) during the last few days we had guests here. I knew something was wrong when BurmaJones asked me to sing a song that I can usually do quite well and my vocal cords just were all over the place. I couldn't control them. It was crazy. I was sure that my voice was completely gone and I got depressed about it. But I didn't realize that it was the bug which hit me full force during that night!

So, it was/is a really weird one and it is always fascinating to see how bugs affect us all differently.
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Interesting, I haven't experienced any physical symptoms whatsoever, but the depression - boy I don't remember feeling so low ever. It has been only few weeks that I am slowly coming out of it.
I would have never made the connection with the Paleobug.
 

HiThere

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Herr Eisenheim said:
Interesting, I haven't experienced any physical symptoms whatsoever, but the depression - boy I don't remember feeling so low ever. It has been only few weeks that I am slowly coming out of it.
I would have never made the connection with the Paleobug.
I've gone through similar tings lately - extreme sensation of cold, stomach flu in the family, lots of little things in the house that don't function and then suddenly works, general feeling of danger.
 

shijing

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
I heard from the Canada crew that it hit them pretty bad there when Galahad returned sick and it was suggested that it might be bacterial instead of viral because of certain clues. I think that is correct because of the way it then went on to attack in particular ways.
Aw, you mean we can't call it PaleoVirus anymore? ;) (Added: I hope all the Canada folks are doing better as well!)

Laura said:
What is curious, as I said, was the depression - it's like the darn bug was eating neurochemicals or producing nasty ones [...] So, it was/is a really weird one and it is always fascinating to see how bugs affect us all differently.
I just wanted to note that in the last part of October and better part of November, I was emotionally all over the place -- it wasn't just depression (there was that for sure) but also elation and the whole spectrum in-between, and I was having major physical symptoms like insomnia and complete lack of interest in food for awhile. I don't know how much this bug had to do with it, but given what Laura just described, it could have easily been a big part of it. One reason I bring this up is that during this time, all of the mods and admins were extremely supportive of and patient with me on The Bridge (the mod/admin subforum), including Ailén -- I had no idea until today that she was feeling so crappy herself the whole time, and that makes me all the more appreciative :)
 

Ollie

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Thank you Laura for sharing this session.

Big hugs to both Ailen and Atriedes for a continuing recovery. :hug:

Interesting about the liver too, I'd just come to the conclusion that a lot of my recent progress with supplement protocols was being hampered with what I now know of as 'sluggish liver' effects - to be dealt with after the festive season.
 

Gimpy

The Living Force
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
Just wanted to make a few notes about the "bug". Several of us had rather mild cases that seemed to be over pretty quick except for an ongoing coughing/clearing that wasn't TOO bad. But the main symptom seemed to be depression that was almost paralyzing. It's been so bad that we didn't get our tree decorated until yesterday because nobody wanted to do it. (And we usually do it on the 1st of December.)

I heard from the Canada crew that it hit them pretty bad there when Galahad returned sick and it was suggested that it might be bacterial instead of viral because of certain clues. I think that is correct because of the way it then went on to attack in particular ways.

It went on in the background with Ailen and Atriedes, both of whom have autoimmune conditions that are controlled by diet. But apparently, this thing aimed for their physical weak spots and they both came down with infected organs, different for each, but horribly painful. Doxycycline seems to have knocked it out - along with total fasting for a few days to calm everything down. The fact that the doxycycline had a positive effect suggests that it was bacterial and not viral.

What is curious, as I said, was the depression - it's like the darn bug was eating neurochemicals or producing nasty ones. I wasn't too sick (it was rough for about three days) and I actually was coming down with it (though I didn't know it) during the last few days we had guests here. I knew something was wrong when BurmaJones asked me to sing a song that I can usually do quite well and my vocal cords just were all over the place. I couldn't control them. It was crazy. I was sure that my voice was completely gone and I got depressed about it. But I didn't realize that it was the bug which hit me full force during that night!

So, it was/is a really weird one and it is always fascinating to see how bugs affect us all differently.

I know it can be hard to do much when the depression is bad (Its been chomping on me lately too). Gentle yoga and light weights, with limited sun exposure has helped me through the worst of it, in addition to tweaking supplements and sticking to a strict eating schedule.

I hope the Holidays afford everyone some rest from all the crazyiness. :hug:
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Shijing said:
I just wanted to note that in the last part of October and better part of November, I was emotionally all over the place -- it wasn't just depression (there was that for sure) but also elation and the whole spectrum in-between, and I was having major physical symptoms like insomnia and complete lack of interest in food for awhile.
Glad you mentioned it because I forgot to: yeah, INSOMNIA was a big thing with the bug. I had to double my 5-htp AND my melatonin just to get close to a decent night's sleep.

Shijing said:
I don't know how much this bug had to do with it, but given what Laura just described, it could have easily been a big part of it. One reason I bring this up is that during this time, all of the mods and admins were extremely supportive of and patient with me on The Bridge (the mod/admin subforum), including Ailén -- I had no idea until today that she was feeling so crappy herself the whole time, and that makes me all the more appreciative :)
Ailén is a trooper, for sure.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Gimpy said:
I know it can be hard to do much when the depression is bad (Its been chomping on me lately too). Gentle yoga and light weights, with limited sun exposure has helped me through the worst of it, in addition to tweaking supplements and sticking to a strict eating schedule.
In this case, it wasn't just depression. The depression was a side-effect of sickness that made it impossible to do anything along the line of exercising in any way. This is particularly true for Ailén and Atriedes who, as I mentioned, had infections in specific organs that produced chills, fever, excruciating pain, and when they weren't forcing themselves to try to get some work done, they were in the bed under piles of blankets. For the rest of us, there were dizzy spells, general aches, etc.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
INSOMNIA was a big thing with the bug. I had to double my 5-htp AND my melatonin just to get close to a decent night's sleep.
Laura, for insomnia you can buy "Arkogélules" (the brand) of passiflore in a pharmacy. It's only passionflower in an handy format and very effective. It's a blue box. I don't know if Arkogélule is distributed outside France.
 

Rabelais

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Hildegarda said:
thank you for another insightful session :flowers:

apart from what has already been mentioned, the following stood out for me:

Q: [..] That means that we actually are stronger than we used to be.

A: Yes.

[..]
A: On the right track. Protect the liver.

I made two trips last week to my local health food store. They always drop free samples into the bag at check out. Both trips I received a small bottle of an herbal liver tonic. How timely. I think I try some now.


Edit=Quote
 

Séamas

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Thank you for posting the session transcript. I hope Ailen and Atreides are feeling better soon! :flowers:
 

mada85

The Living Force
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

LAura said:
Just wanted to make a few notes about the "bug". Several of us had rather mild cases that seemed to be over pretty quick except for an ongoing coughing/clearing that wasn't TOO bad. But the main symptom seemed to be depression that was almost paralyzing. It's been so bad that we didn't get our tree decorated until yesterday because nobody wanted to do it. (And we usually do it on the 1st of December.)
Cs said:
Q: (REL) What would they gain by making us sick?
A: That should be obvious: hoping for a “hit”.
This makes me wonder of the bug was engineered in some way, designed to produce these effects so as to halt or at least slow down your activities.
 
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