Atreides and "The List"

Chu

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all for your wishes of recovery. :flowers: :love: It really means a lot.

It was just as Laura has explained it. Personally, I though I was almost over the bug. The aches, pain, runny nose and all that went away after about a month. I started feeling a bit better for about a week, although I was still depressed like everyone else. But then, the real pain began, and old symptoms reappeared that I considered pretty much cured with the diet. I had all the symptoms of an attack of pancreatitis. Psyche had me take vit. C every day, and I reached 80gr a day, then 70gr, then 50 for a few days, while fasting, sleeping a lot, fever, and lots of pain. That was the weird thing. The pain wasn't just around the pancreas, but very sharp, from the knees to the upper back. Both laying down and sitting hurt the same. Atreides got that same pain, but some of his symptoms were different.

I have never had problems sleeping, but now my cycle is pretty messed up. Taking more 5-HTP is starting to help.

It is really weird how it seems to eat up all our serotonin, or something. It's a general depression, a sense of doom, like "what's the point?" type of thoughts. With no apparent reason. But we've got to keep going, and we do have each other, and the knowledge shared here which makes all the difference.

Atreides says "thank you and hugs as well. Taking it easy for a few days till I feel better."

So, thanks again, and we'll keep you posted. There are some days when we can get some things done, fortunately, and others are harder. But we'll get there! We promise! :)

Hugs to everyone. :hug2:
 

Meager1

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Sounds like somebody is testing out a new super bug!

I hope everybody is getting over this now and feeling better.

Did anyone use the infra red blanket during any stages of this illness, and if so did it help at all?
And what about the baking soda, like for the Spanish flu?
Just trying to get some ideas, in case this one is going to spread.
 

Richs

Dagobah Resident
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Ailén said:
I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all for your wishes of recovery. :flowers: :love: It really means a lot.

It was just as Laura has explained it. Personally, I though I was almost over the bug. The aches, pain, runny nose and all that went away after about a month. I started feeling a bit better for about a week, although I was still depressed like everyone else. But then, the real pain began, and old symptoms reappeared that I considered pretty much cured with the diet. I had all the symptoms of an attack of pancreatitis. Psyche had me take vit. C every day, and I reached 80gr a day, then 70gr, then 50 for a few days, while fasting, sleeping a lot, fever, and lots of pain. That was the weird thing. The pain wasn't just around the pancreas, but very sharp, from the knees to the upper back. Both laying down and sitting hurt the same. Atreides got that same pain, but some of his symptoms were different.

I have never had problems sleeping, but now my cycle is pretty messed up. Taking more 5-HTP is starting to help.

It is really weird how it seems to eat up all our serotonin, or something. It's a general depression, a sense of doom, like "what's the point?" type of thoughts. With no apparent reason. But we've got to keep going, and we do have each other, and the knowledge shared here which makes all the difference.

Atreides says "thank you and hugs as well. Taking it easy for a few days till I feel better."

So, thanks again, and we'll keep you posted. There are some days when we can get some things done, fortunately, and others are harder. But we'll get there! We promise! :)

Hugs to everyone. :hug2:
Most of us here were unaware of just how sick you guys were, and still to some extent are, but I want to add my condolences and hope for a quick and complete recovery to all of you still having some left-overs from the illness!

And, darn glad it wasn't any worse than that!
 

dantem

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Rabelais said:
Hildegarda said:
thank you for another insightful session :flowers:

apart from what has already been mentioned, the following stood out for me:

Q: [..] That means that we actually are stronger than we used to be.

A: Yes.

[..]
A: On the right track. Protect the liver.
I made two trips last week to my local health food store. They always drop free samples into the bag at check out. Both trips I received a small bottle of an herbal liver tonic. How timely. I think I try some now.
For a period I've tried Sylmarin, bought at supersmart dot com. Time to try it again!

Thanks for the session. Wishing a speed recovery to both Ailén and Atreides :scooter:
 

Laurentien2

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Meager1 said:
Sounds like somebody is testing out a new super bug!

I hope everybody is getting over this now and feeling better.

Did anyone use the infra red blanket during any stages of this illness, and if so did it help at all?
And what about the baking soda, like for the Spanish flu?
Just trying to get some ideas, in case this one is going to spread.
I use a infra red sauna every second days, my symptom started on Friday at the paleofest culminating on Sunday night (day I returned to Canada) and Monday. I took a sauna on Monday afternoon and probably one per day at the beginning and every second day after and the symptom lasted for a good 3 weeks but were mild all together. Another thing is that on The first Tuesday, I got my last 2 mercury filling replace so I did 2 rounds of DMSA, did it help me fight it or was it the sauna?
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

A bit of additional info that may relate to the effects of this bug:

Got the blues with running nose as an accompaniment? Link between depression and inflammatory response found in mice

Vanderbilt University researchers may have found a clue to the blues that can come with the flu - depression may be triggered by the same mechanisms that enable the immune system to respond to infection.

In a study in the December issue of Neuropsychopharmacology, Chong-Bin Zhu, M.D., Ph.D., Randy Blakely, Ph.D., William Hewlett, M.D., Ph.D., and colleagues activated the immune system in mice to produce "despair-like" behavior that has similarities to depression in humans.

"Many people exhibit signs of lethargy and depressed mood during flu-like illnesses," said Blakely, director of the Vanderbilt Center for Molecular Neuroscience. "Generally these have been treated as just a consequence of being physically ill, but we think there is likely to be something more brain-centric at work here."

Blakely and his colleagues previously reported that inflammatory cytokines can enhance the activity of the serotonin transporter (SERT), which regulates the supply of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the synapse, or gap between nerve cells.

Elevations in SERT activity remove serotonin from brain synapses at an enhanced rate and, based on studies in animal models and man, would be predicted to increase the risk for mood and anxiety disorders. Indeed, a class of antidepressant drugs called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) - Prozac, Zoloft, etc. - work by blocking the ability of SERT to eliminate serotonin.

In the current study in mice, the researchers triggered pro-inflammatory cytokine production. Within 30 to 60 minutes, SERT was activated in the brain and the animals displayed despair-like behavior.

Remarkably, this behavior was not observed when cytokine production was triggered in mice lacking the SERT gene. Similarly, a drug that blocks inflammatory molecule signaling also prevented stimulation of SERT and the despair behavior. "It's as if these inflammatory molecules are an 'anti-Prozac,'" Blakely said.

In their paper, the researchers cautioned that "we do not presume that changes in SERT activity alone are sufficient to induce the full spectrum of depression traits, nor that our animal model can reproduce all the elements of a complex neuropsychiatric disorder."

"Nonetheless, we were able to identify a mechanism that may be a engaged, even without inflammation, to impact risk for depressive illness," Blakely said.

More study is needed. Identifying genetic variations in the SERT activation pathway, for example, might suggest additional sources of genetic risk for depression. "Our work suggests that novel therapies targeting inflammation-linked pathways may be of use in the treatment of mood disorders," he said.

Zhu is research associate professor of Pharmacology, Blakely is the Alan D. Bass Professor of Pharmacology and professor of Psychiatry, and Hewlett is associate professor of Psychiatry and Pharmacology.
__________________________
 

RedFox

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Thank you for the new session. I hope Ailèn and Atreides get well soon! :hug:

I was hit with the Paleo bug to, but seemed to get rid of it within a week......the note about depression is really interesting though as I had all sorts of programs and depleted seritonin behaviour kick in after that......some depression, but mostly a lot of staying up late/insomnia and dissociative behaviour. In the end it prompted me to do something about it.

A few weeks ago however I ended up suffering from neck cramps, joint pain, dizziness, really strong depression, stabbing sinus pain and an upset stomach within a few hours....initially I thought it was something I ate, but it seems to be going around. It did pass through my mind to warn the château crew about it....must listen to that part of me.
When it didn't get any better (as food related problems do) I ended up taking 20-30g of vitimin C in 24 hours....

Have been following Psyches protocol on protecting the liver and its been really helping! I've adapted mine to include balancing the digestive and adrenal system. I didn't realise it until looking recently, but Liquorish root is also protects the liver. I've been taking it for adrenal support.
Some other herbs I will be looking out for is Dandelion and Burdock, as both are said to be good for the liver.

I've also been looking for things on serotonin and bacteria and viruses....and may have also found something. It seems to be more along the lines of the 'hit'....but I cannot say for sure.

_http://opac.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=3178

Brain Virus May Give Clues to Causes Underlying Psychiatric and Neurological Problems

Published: March 15, 2002

New Haven, Conn. — A Yale researcher tracing a recombinant virus as it entered the brains of laboratory animals found it damaged selective areas and then vanished without a trace, raising questions about possible mental problems caused by undetected viruses.

"The virus went to areas of the brain that play an important role in functions related to attention," said Anthony Van den Pol, professor of neurosurgery at Yale School of Medicine and lead author of the study published as the cover story in the February issue of the Journal of Virology. "After a few days the virus was eliminated by the immune system, leaving no trace of the virus in the brain, but nerve cells in very specific areas of the brain were lost. This is a potential model for viruses that can cause psychiatric and neurological dysfunction, yet leave no evidence of their presence at later times."

Co-authors of the study were Kevin Dalton and John Rose.

Van den Pol's experiment involved laboratory rodents and a common laboratory virus, vesicular stomatitis virus (VSV), which is not dangerous to humans. The virus was designed to include a reporter gene, which enabled him to follow its path through the brain. Some of the laboratory animals used in the study inhaled the virus, and others received a microinjection in the brain.

When inhaled, the virus infects the olfactory system of the nose and then enters the brain through the olfactory nerve. In developing rodents, the virus continues into the rest of the brain. In mature rodents, cells within the olfactory system manage to halt the further movement of the virus to other brain regions.

If VSV gets past the olfactory system, one area of the brain for which the virus has an affinity is the dorsal raphe, the origin of much of the serotonin in the brain. A number of psychiatric drugs, for instance, the "SSRI" drugs used to treat depression, anxiety,and obsessive compulsive disorder, act by increasing serotonin in the brain. In contrast, this virus first blocks serotonin synthesis, and then may kill the serotonin neuron. Laboratory rodents exposed to the virus show learning and attention deficits.

In regions of the world where the virus is endemic, it does not raise human health concerns. In fact, by using molecular methods to design a recombinant VSV that includes genes from more dangerous viruses, VSV can be used beneficially to generate immunity against these other viruses.

"This virus can cause permanent changes in rodent behavior, lasting long after the virus is destroyed by the immune system. Developing brains show an enhanced sensitivity to VSV infection," he said. "We do not know what causes many psychiatric and neurologic disorders. A hypothesis we are addressing with this model is that some of these diseases could be caused by short term infections of the brain by viruses that leave behind no molecular footprint, but generate a subtle trail of cell loss in discrete regions of the brain."
So does VSV have any relation to bacterial infections?

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2837253
Vesicular stomatitis virus infection enhances invasiveness of Salmonella typhimurium.

Bukholm G, Bjørnland K, Ellekjaer H, Berdal BP, Degré M.

Kaptein W. Wilhelmsen og Frues Bakteriologiske Institutt, University of Oslo, Norway.
Abstract

When mouse fibroblast L-929 cells were pre-infected with vesicular stomatitis virus, an enhancement of invasiveness by Salmonella typhimurium was observed. The effect was more pronounced when higher virus doses were used. Short-time (5 h) pre-incubation with virus caused a moderate enhancement of invasiveness. When virus pre-incubation time was increased to 8 h or 13 h, a further enhancement was observed. Results obtained after pre-incubation with UV inactivated virus were similar to that achieved by the short-time pre-incubation with the corresponding viable virus preparation. This indicates (i) an early phase of virus infection, when virus causes enhancement of invasiveness that is not dependent on viral nucleic acid induced metabolism, and (ii) a later phase, when virus-induced metabolism is necessary for the enhancement. When virus and bacteria were given concomitantly to infant mice, lethality was increased compared to groups that only received virus or bacteria. The data indicate that vesicular stomatitis virus aggravates infection with a facultatively intracellular bacterium, partly by enhancing the invasiveness of the bacteria.
fwiw
 

zim

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
Just wanted to make a few notes about the "bug". Several of us had rather mild cases that seemed to be over pretty quick except for an ongoing coughing/clearing that wasn't TOO bad. But the main symptom seemed to be depression that was almost paralyzing. It's been so bad that we didn't get our tree decorated until yesterday because nobody wanted to do it. (And we usually do it on the 1st of December.)
It is really interesting because I was one of the early attendees but I wasn't sick when I arrived but the second day after try to sleep I had a incredible pain in one of my shoulder, after I arrived in my country I`ve been down with Depression :headbash: :curse: :umm: I even wanted to put something for Christmas. :oops:.. the main point is I`ve never have Depression in my life, never feel so down as I feel now, althought having this kind of situation that I`ve been living since my arrive. Inside of me I really have had a battle about my feelings !!!!! :/

Thanks for the session it is always very interesting!!! Thanks for your effort crew!!! Hope Ailèn and Atreides get well !!!! A great huge for you people!!!! Hope you all Have a nice days this time!!!! ;) :thup: :hug2:
 
G

Gertrudes

Guest
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

I was also very surprised to know that Ailén and Artreides have been sick since the Paleofest. It's been a while now!
I did get a mild cold on the last day that subsided after a few days. I was actually pleasantly surprised with the fact that it was so mild and that I didn't get any fever. For years I had been getting colds several times a year, always accompanied by fever, but since having changed my diet nearly 2 years ago my colds have disappeared completely.

I find it interesting though, that the two most affected persons were part of the chateau. So if they were indeed hoping for a hit, they sure studied who to target.
I'm sending big hugs your way Ailén and Artreides, get well soon!

Laura said:
Interestingly, whenever I get a cold I become a little depressed, so much so that I came to identify being sick with a cold with mild depression. Thanks for the info Laura.
 

anothermagyar

Dagobah Resident
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Thank you for another great session!
Get well soon Ailen and Atreides!
:hug:

I realized when I get to talk to people about health and diet most of them only cares about their weight or look. Not a lot of people realizing the food what we eat influencing our brain and immune-system. The relation between diseases and the food . But I don't expect them to understand what is that mean, besides they addicted to wheat and others.
I kind a see as you try take away the drog from a drog addict.
Of course if somebody works as a health care professional this can be more difficult. We would assume this is great I can help more people!
But the sad truth in our ponerized world where is mainstream medical science ruled by pharmaceuticals is not possible to change people!
How can we teach them to think? To use their common-sense, use their gray cells instead of just listen and except everything what they're hear from "white suit" .
Unless they pray:
"Clear my eyes that I can see
Clear my ears that I can hear!"

I admire that Brainwave truly you were influenced a group of people like that:
:rockon:
Brainwave said:
My super fundie christian aunt told me it helps her to think and feel better as well as work better with others she interacts with. Some of her church folks get together at her house to do it with the DVD playing, which was interesting to hear from my standpoint. This is a woman who likes Sarah Palin! Maybe not for too much longer though if she keeps breathing Smiley.
 

Rabelais

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Endymion said:
This makes me wonder of the bug was engineered in some way, designed to produce these effects so as to halt or at least slow down your activities.

I have a feeling that bioweaponized virus are designed to kill, at least those most immune challenged. Bioweaponization, of virus and bacteria, is ultimately tied to the population reduction agenda.

Detox, detox, detox!!!
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

jhonny said:
Many thanks for sharing this session(as always it was very interesting) and a speedy recovery to Ailén and Atreides.
A little update on the situation.

It became clear last week that Atriedes was getting sicker by the day. He was so sick that even he didn't realize how bad it was getting because he seldom complains and just keeps soldiering on. We took him to the doctor and he was scheduled for a colonoscopy and gastroscopy on the 27th which, at that time, was about a week away.

A couple days went by and we were just hanging on and watching his suffering increase hourly, keeping our fingers crossed that the scans that were still in the future would give us answers. By Christmas Day, it became obvious that something needed to be done NOW. We did what we could to get through the night and the next day, called the doctor. He met us at the hospital and Atriedes was admitted. A scan was done and blood tests and it was seen immediately that he had a major infection in the area of the sigmoid colon. He was put on IV antibiotics and scheduled for a modified colonoscopy done under general anaesthesia. When he came back from the procedure, the inflammation was highly aggravated, he was vomiting and in terrible pain.

More antibiotics, pain killers, a drip for nutrients, etc. for three days.

We brought him home this afternoon. He had a bit of applesauce, his first food in 6 days. He came within an inch of losing his colon or his life.
 

Pashalis

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
jhonny said:
Many thanks for sharing this session(as always it was very interesting) and a speedy recovery to Ailén and Atreides.
A little update on the situation.

It became clear last week that Atriedes was getting sicker by the day. He was so sick that even he didn't realize how bad it was getting because he seldom complains and just keeps soldiering on. We took him to the doctor and he was scheduled for a colonoscopy and gastroscopy on the 27th which, at that time, was about a week away.

A couple days went by and we were just hanging on and watching his suffering increase hourly, keeping our fingers crossed that the scans that were still in the future would give us answers. By Christmas Day, it became obvious that something needed to be done NOW. We did what we could to get through the night and the next day, called the doctor. He met us at the hospital and Atriedes was admitted. A scan was done and blood tests and it was seen immediately that he had a major infection in the area of the sigmoid colon. He was put on IV antibiotics and scheduled for a modified colonoscopy done under general anaesthesia. When he came back from the procedure, the inflammation was highly aggravated, he was vomiting and in terrible pain.

More antibiotics, pain killers, a drip for nutrients, etc. for three days.

We brought him home this afternoon. He had a bit of applesauce, his first food in 6 days. He came within an inch of losing his colon or his life.
I didn't realise that the situation is so bad for Atriedes :scared:
Atriedes get well :hug:
 

LQB

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
We brought him home this afternoon. He had a bit of applesauce, his first food in 6 days. He came within an inch of losing his colon or his life.
Very good to find that root problem. Best from here for quick recovery, Atriedes!
 

Gandalf

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Re: Session 12 December 2010

Laura said:
We brought him home this afternoon. He had a bit of applesauce, his first food in 6 days. He came within an inch of losing his colon or his life.
Gees, even during that time of the year, you do not have peace for a little while. Always under attacks.

Hoping that Atreides will get better soon. He is quite a Warrior. :hug:

Take care and get well Atreides. We are with you. :hug2:
 
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