Barack Obama

If Obama tries to conduct a positive policy, then we can clap our hands at so much cleverness and wisdom.

It would mean that for years he had duped observers, analysts, medias, lobbies, funders, other politicians...

If Obama manages to conduct a positive policy, then we can call him a supergenius.

It would mean he will manage to avoid martial law enactment, convenient terrorist attacks, assassination attempts...

Such a scenario is 99% unlikely, not impossible though, only time will tell.

Very interesting time ahead indeed.
 
Belibaste said:
If Obama tries to conduct a positive policy, then we can clap our hands at so much cleverness and wisdom.

It would mean that for years he had duped observers, analysts, medias, lobbies, funders, other politicians...

If Obama manages to conduct a positive policy, then we can call him a supergenius.

It would mean he will manage to avoid martial law enactment, convenient terrorist attacks, assassination attempts...

Such a scenario is 99% unlikely, not impossible though, only time will tell.

Very interesting time ahead indeed.

Yes, unlikely.

You speak of a "fifth column" type infiltration with an intention for good. The problem is that the variables for creating good from this system are very much multiple, multiple orders of magnitude more complex than usurping the system for a particular, selfish goal.

The system is narrow and focused for a reason. It's why I keep harping on those who think that someone can change the system from within. It's a closed system, with near mathematical axioms and the resulting formulas, and it's those axioms that people swallow as being the only reality there is.

The system is not designed for social good. It is designed to extract something from the participants.

Hoping that someone can change the system from within belies the limited perception of what can be done.
 
Laura wrote:
...why do we not think that a decent person could, under the very trying circumstances we have all endured over those same 8 years, decide to try to do something about it, to behave covertly, so as to get into position to do something?

It's probably not the case, but I think we ought to leave the door open to that possibility.

From what I've read about Obama's background so far (mostly via Internet,) I get the impression that he's actually a perennial Outsider who's become adept at becoming an Insider wherever he goes - like a Participant-Observer ethnologist.

Unusually diversified cultural/geographic/family background (as a child in Hawaii, reportedly had friends in diverse social situations.)

When first elected to statewide office, he was regarded as an Outsider by everyone (he neither black nor white.) Folks in the Black Caucus made fun of him. Intent on sussing the socio-political dynamics, he established acceptance from various factions, cultivating various mentors. Joining in a weekly poker game with a group of veterans, even taking golf lessons for same purpose. Once called out his main Black tormentor into the hall for a fight (after some pushing, others separated them - but he thereby gained respect.)

[Apologies - I've lost links to the source for the info above.]

Seems he has the capacity for bridging oppositions - conflict resolution.

Cynically, his motivation would be Machiavellian Power Lust. But as Laura said, its possible that he's a decent person ... behaving covertly. But doesn't 'behaving covertly' connote, again, Machiavellian machinations?

Is it possible that he's an Outsider/Insider who has learned to maintain his essential integrity by deft use of Strategic Enclosure?

As for his cabinet choices, I recall a saying: "Keep your enemies close."

PS: First Black Prez!!! Historic hysteria!! Politically Miraculous! No. The most amazing thing is that Americans so insular & ignorant of geopolitics, have actually elected a Prez with multicultural roots.

Thanks for opportunity to offer my Tuppence. Hope its not distracting.

- ayamaya
 
ayamaya said:
When first elected to statewide office, he was regarded as an Outsider by everyone (he neither black nor white.) Folks in the Black Caucus made fun of him. Intent on sussing the socio-political dynamics, he established acceptance from various factions, cultivating various mentors. Joining in a weekly poker game with a group of veterans, even taking golf lessons for same purpose. Once called out his main Black tormentor into the hall for a fight (after some pushing, others separated them - but he thereby gained respect.)

[Apologies - I've lost links to the source for the info above.]

it's been posted earlier in this thread, on page 8 ;)
 
Some recommended reading for those who continue to hope beyond hope....


The Obama Letdown
by Michael Hudson, CounterPunch.org
November 26, 2008

Excerpt:
Two weeks ago I was at an economic meeting on “financialization” in Germany. Most of the attendees with whom I spoke expressed the hope – indeed, almost a smug conviction – that Obama would be like Gorbachev in Russia: a man who saw the need for deep structural change but chose to bide his time, seeming to “play the game” with the protective coloration of going along, but then introducing a revolutionary reform program once in office. Instead, Obama is looking more like Boris Yeltsin – a political umbrella for the kleptocrats to whom the public domain and decades of public wealth were given with no quid pro quo....

Same Old Gang: Obama's Odious Entourage
by Eric Walberg, CounterPunch.org
November 26, 2008

Excerpt:
[Obama] would never have made it past the first, obscure primary without his army of selfless, grassroots activists, and his coffers were first filled by millions of small, personal donations. Surely these are the people he should honour with at least a few names.... Not one of the 23 Senators and 133 House Representatives who voted against the war in Iraq are on his transitional team or even on a short-list for an important post in his Cabinet....

Back to the Future With Barack
by Matt Siegfried, CounterPunch.org
November 26, 2008

Excerpt:
Here is a taste of Obama’s “Back to the Future” cabinet. For those of you who voted for him with the hope that the US would soon become a North American Sweden — you were wrong and we told you so. I just didn’t think it would only take two weeks to become clear. I guess Barack doesn’t want anyone to get the wrong idea about him being a “progressive” or something so he stocked his cabinet with rightist retreads....

Obama in Bedlam
by John Ross, Counterpunch.org
November 25, 2008

Excerpt:
I don't buy Barack Obama as the Messiah. I didn't vote for him (I voted for another Afro-American) and I haven't filed an application to join his regime. He ran a duplicitous, multi-million dollar campaign that masqueraded as a social movement and because it was a gimmick and a shuck, it will thwart and demoralize the re-creation of real social movement for years to come....
 
PepperFritz said:
Some recommended reading for those who continue to hope beyond hope....

Ok, but who exactly is 'hoping beyond hope' and what exactly were they 'hoping' for?

I was under the impression that the world is full of situations coloured in the many shades of grey and that this is the environment that challenges a person to use discernment. It is not black or white, or right or wrong. No matter how much a person may prefer it to be so. Because that, unfortunately, is an oversimplification. :(

The question then becomes: Are you oversimplifying how you see people? (on this forum... or in general...). Its a bit of a 'leading' question, I suppose.... :)
 
I'll keep my options open with Obama as well, but all in all I think we are looking at only three scenarios ... and none of them look palatable to me:

1. Scenario - Obama is just another political eliticist
This seems to me to be the most likely scenario. He's talking the talk, but won't walk the walk - at least not the way I would like him to walk. So it will be the same political agenda behind a new face, things will deteriorate slowly (or quickly?), and the "drastic measures" a la Biden will "have to be implemented" and the US citicen will have to stomach this as well. Obama will be just "another Bush".

2. Scenario - Obama is a "Mandchurian Candidate"
I think this scenario cannot be completely ruled out - Obama basically being a brainwashed frontman to some groups holding the power over him and moving him like a puppet. In favour of this scenario is the fact that he has almost "come out of nowhere" - and was able to defeat Hilary Clinton with ease (which I still don't understand quite well ...).

3. Scenario - He is a good guy "howling with the wolfes" to get into power
I think this scenario to be quite unlikely, for the following reason: I think it is impossible for a "good person" to lead a prolonged double-life with "the bad guys" without being negatively afflicted - kind of a "political" Stockholm Syndrome. And even if that was true, as soon as he was showing his true colours - he would be eliminated a la JFK - to be replaced by Biden - and the PTB would be happy again.

So all in all - not much hope of a "change" in my humble opinion ...

Maybe we should start to focus our attention more on Joe Biden - I know about him even less than about Obama.
 
Ruth said:
Ok, but who exactly is 'hoping beyond hope' and what exactly were they 'hoping' for?

Anyone who downplays what we are able to objectively observe about Obama's past and current political behaviour and allies, in favor of an interpretation of him that is based, not on objective data, but on "hope" and highly improbable "what if" scenarios.


Ruth said:
I was under the impression that the world is full of situations coloured in the many shades of grey and that this is the environment that challenges a person to use discernment.

Surely "discernment" and one's perception of "shades of grey" should be based on objective data, not just "hope" or wishful thinking. Where are the "shades of grey" that I am missing in relation to Obama? How is my perception of Obama an "oversimplification"? His record is what it is. Do you have data that contradicts my perceptions and observations of him? Please be specific.


Ruth said:
It is not black or white, or right or wrong. No matter how much a person may prefer it to be so.

Are you suggesting that there is nothing that you would consider to be "right or wrong"? Somehow I don't think you'd be talking about "shades of grey" and no "right or wrong" if the subject were Bush and his administration. What is significantly different about Obama that we should apply a less stringent standard of objectivity when evaluating him and those he has chosen for his administration?


Ruth said:
The question then becomes: Are you oversimplifying how you see people? (on this forum... or in general...).

I don't think so. I'm trying, as much as possible, to see "people" and situations objectively, and not as I wish they would be. Perhaps you can specify which "people" in particular you think I am "oversiimplifying", and why you think that is so?
 
Ruth said:
Ok, but who exactly is 'hoping beyond hope' and what exactly were they 'hoping' for?


This whole idea about "Hope" and "Change" as part of the slogans of Obama's campaign seems more like hot air than anything else.
Empty words.
Hope for what and change what?
So far I haven't seen or heard anything from Obama that shows more specifically what is meant by "Hope" and "Change".

It seems more and more that people are projecting their own highly subjective ideas and wishes of how "hope" and "change" is supposed to look like according to their "world".
In that sense the slogans of "Hope" and "Change" become great tools of deceptions and distraction, even a form of mind control, by giving Obama the image of someone who will bring what "you" hope for or anyone hopes for, based on subjective wishful thinking, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will echo these projections. Nor are are there any signs for any true change so far. Quite the contrary actually.
Objectivity is being thrown out of the window as people don't seem to see clearly what Obama stands for on many issues, in particular foreign policy. His choice for advisers also doesn't speak for him very well as shown in a recent article on SOTT:

from http://www.sott.net/articles/show/169631-This-Is-The-Big-Change-20-Hawks-Clintonites-and-Neocons-to-Watch-for-in-Obama-s-White-House

U.S. policy is not about one individual, and no matter how much faith people place in President-elect Barack Obama, the policies he enacts will be fruit of a tree with many roots. Among them: his personal politics and views, the disastrous realities his administration will inherit, and, of course, unpredictable future crises. But the best immediate indicator of what an Obama administration might look like can be found in the people he surrounds himself with and who he appoints to his Cabinet. And, frankly, when it comes to foreign policy, it is not looking good....


The fact that Obama is an eloquent speaker, has a good charisma, a "minority" look and seems to know how to trigger emotional buttons, doesn't mean that he's a "good" guy.
It seems to me that people project a lot of "hope" into this guy simply because he seems or appears like a nice guy. That's at least what I've gotten from many Obama supporters. It's interesting to notice in certain conversations, when I try to make some Obama fans aware of the people behind him , his advisors and his stand on foreign policy, it is all being ignored and the focus is tunnel visioned on HIM. As if he's the only ONE who decides ALL in Washington and it doesn't matter who in his administration is. He alone will bring "change", whatever that means. In certain cases the hype is so strong that many people only hear what they want to hear and ignore the things he says/does that may contradict the image they have built of him. Certain facts are seen just as being "negative" and hence not considered. It seems more that people are oversimplifying their hope into Obama. All the hope seems based on subjective projections and wishful thinking.
I don't see any signs for any true change yet.

Sure, nothing is set in stone, the future is open, but if that is confused with wishful thinking, it may lead to a "road to hell paved with good intentions".

Time will tell.....two months from now he'll be (proabably.....you never know) in office, then he will have to "do" and not just talk. So far his strings seems pretty well attached.


Here's something that reminded of what Gurdjieff said in regards to politicians:

[quote author=ISOTM]"But may there not be honest and decent people among politicians?" someone asked. "Certainly there may be," said G., "but in this case they are not practical people, they are dreamers, and they will be used by other people as screens to cover their own obscure affairs.
[/quote]
 
Bernhard said:
Here's something that reminded of what Gurdjieff said in regards to politicians:

[quote author=ISOTM]"But may there not be honest and decent people among politicians?" someone asked. "Certainly there may be," said G., "but in this case they are not practical people, they are dreamers, and they will be used by other people as screens to cover their own obscure affairs.


[/quote]

This understanding is not only aimed at politicians, but also to those who think the "system" encompasses the one and only (TM) reality, that they have come to accept through no searching of their own.
 
Azur said:
Bernhard said:
Here's something that reminded of what Gurdjieff said in regards to politicians:

[quote author=ISOTM]"But may there not be honest and decent people among politicians?" someone asked. "Certainly there may be," said G., "but in this case they are not practical people, they are dreamers, and they will be used by other people as screens to cover their own obscure affairs.

This understanding is not only aimed at politicians, but also to those who think the "system" encompasses the one and only (TM) reality, that they have come to accept through no searching of their own.
[/quote]

I agree with the above quotes, and to wish for something to become a reality, is nothing but just wishful thinking, period. We will certainly see what actually happens in the days to come. I think that we have been provided a pretty reviling picture, based on the appointments already assigned at this point. I will continue to keep myself open to what may happen, but the deck is starting to stack up (imp).
 
[quote author=Pepperfritz]
from: Ruth on Yesterday at 08:52:58 PM
It is not black or white, or right or wrong. No matter how much a person may prefer it to be so.

Are you suggesting that there is nothing that you would consider to be "right or wrong"? Somehow I don't think you'd be talking about "shades of grey" and no "right or wrong" if the subject were Bush and his administration. What is significantly different about Obama that we should apply a less stringent standard of objectivity when evaluating him and those he has chosen for his administration?
[/quote]

Spot on Pepperfitz.

Ruth: Without an elaboration of applying the third force for moral discernment, your statement is a paramoralism.
 
_http://www.truthout.org/120208J

Barack Obama's Kettle of Hawks
Monday 01 December 2008

»

by: Jeremy Scahill, The Guardian UK


Barack Obama's national security team has been called a cast of rivals. (Photo: Reuters)

The absence of a solid anti-war voice on Obama's national security team means that US foreign policy isn't going to change.


Barack Obama has assembled a team of rivals to implement his foreign policy. But while pundits and journalists speculate endlessly on the potential for drama with Hillary Clinton at the state department and Bill Clinton's network of shady funders, the real rivalry that will play out goes virtually unmentioned. The main battles will not be between Obama's staff, but rather against those who actually want a change in US foreign policy, not just a staff change in the war room.

When announcing his foreign policy team on Monday, Obama said: "I didn't go around checking their voter registration." That is a bit hard to believe, given the 63-question application to work in his White House. But Obama clearly did check their credentials, and the disturbing truth is that he liked what he saw.

The assembly of Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, Susan Rice and Joe Biden is a kettle of hawks with a proven track record of support for the Iraq war, militaristic interventionism, neoliberal economic policies and a worldview consistent with the foreign policy arch that stretches from George HW Bush's time in office to the present.

Obama has dismissed suggestions that the public records of his appointees bear much relevance to future policy. "Understand where the vision for change comes from, first and foremost," Obama said. "It comes from me. That's my job, to provide a vision in terms of where we are going and to make sure, then, that my team is implementing." It is a line the president-elect's defenders echo often. The reality, though, is that their records do matter.

We were told repeatedly during the campaign that Obama was right on the premiere foreign policy issue of our day - the Iraq war. "Six years ago, I stood up and opposed this war at a time when it was politically risky to do so," Obama said in his September debate against John McCain. "Senator McCain and President Bush had a very different judgment." What does it say that, with 130 members of the House and 23 in the Senate who voted against the war, Obama chooses to hire Democrats who made the same judgement as Bush and McCain?

On Iraq, the issue that the Obama campaign described as "the most critical foreign policy judgment of our generation", Biden and Clinton not only supported the invasion, but pushed the Bush administration's propaganda and lies about Iraqi WMDs and fictitious connections to al-Qaida. Clinton and Obama's hawkish, pro-Israel chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, still refuse to renounce their votes in favour of the war. Rice, who claims she opposed the Iraq war, didn't hold elected office and was not confronted with voting for or against it. But she did publicly promote the myth of Iraq's possession of WMDs, saying in the lead up to the war that the "major threat" must "be dealt with forcefully". Rice has also been hawkish on Darfur, calling for "strik[ing] Sudanese airfields, aircraft and other military assets".

It is also deeply telling that, of his own free will, Obama selected President Bush's choice for defence secretary, a man with a very disturbing and lengthy history at the CIA during the cold war, as his own. While General James Jones, Obama's nominee for national security adviser, reportedly opposed the Iraq invasion and is said to have stood up to the neocons in Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon, he did not do so publicly when it would have carried weight. Time magazine described him as "the man who led the Marines during the run-up to the war - and failed to publicly criticise the operation's flawed planning". Moreover, Jones, who is a friend of McCain's, has said a timetable for Iraq withdrawal, "would be against our national interest".

But the problem with Obama's appointments is hardly just a matter of bad vision on Iraq. What ultimately ties Obama's team together is their unified support for the classic US foreign policy recipe: the hidden hand of the free market, backed up by the iron fist of US militarism to defend the America First doctrine.

Obama's starry-eyed defenders have tried to downplay the importance of his cabinet selections, saying Obama will call the shots, but the ruling elite in this country see it for what it is. Karl Rove, "Bush's Brain", called Obama's cabinet selections, "reassuring", which itself is disconcerting, but neoconservative leader and former McCain campaign staffer Max Boot summed it up best. "I am gobsmacked by these appointments, most of which could just as easily have come from a President McCain," Boot wrote. The appointment of General Jones and the retention of Gates at defence "all but puts an end to the 16-month timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, the unconditional summits with dictators and other foolishness that once emanated from the Obama campaign."

Boot added that Hillary Clinton will be a "powerful" voice "for 'neoliberalism' which is not so different in many respects from 'neoconservativism.'" Boot's buddy, Michael Goldfarb, wrote in The Weekly Standard, the official organ of the neoconservative movement, that he sees "certainly nothing that represents a drastic change in how Washington does business. The expectation is that Obama is set to continue the course set by Bush in his second term."

There is not a single, solid anti-war voice in the upper echelons of the Obama foreign policy apparatus. And this is the point: Obama is not going to fundamentally change US foreign policy. He is a status quo Democrat. And that is why the mono-partisan Washington insiders are gushing over Obama's new team. At the same time, it is also disingenuous to act as though Obama is engaging in some epic betrayal. Of course these appointments contradict his campaign rhetoric of change. But move past the speeches and Obama's selections are very much in sync with his record and the foreign policy vision he articulated on the campaign trail, from his pledge to escalate the war in Afghanistan to his "residual force" plan in Iraq to his vow to use unilateral force in Pakistan to defend US interests to his posturing on Iran. "I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel," Obama said in his famed speech at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee last summer. "Sometimes, there are no alternatives to confrontation."

--------

Jeremy Scahill pledges to be the same journalist under an Obama administration that he was during Bill Clinton and George Bush's presidencies. He is the author of "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army" and is a frequent contributor to The Nation and Democracy Now! He is a Puffin Foundation Writing Fellow at the Nation Institute.

Of course we will see what happens but it doesn't look like much is going to change...
 
Just a heads-up, folks..... :cry:

Obama apparently just named Iowan Tom Vilsack as Sec. of Agriculture - good buddy of the Monsanto demon-spawn. :evil:
[Mon-satan-o's "governor of the year"]

On top of that, he's invited to give "invocation" at the inauguration....guess who!.....RICK WARREN!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
(Wasn't that the guy from Saddleback megachurch in Orange Co., CA who helped develop that wonderful video game about exterminating all non-evangelical Xtians....you know, Muslims, homos, pagans, Hindus, Buddhists, environmentalists, Catholics, feminists, etc etc etc?)
Anyway, Ricky boy was big into Prop. 8.....so he's probably a closeted self-hating whatever...... :lol:

Does anyone not GET the terror of the situation, YET?
And, how long do we give this freak...I mean Pres.-Elect...the "BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT"?????
_____________________
It's a good day to die.
 
More bad news, I'm afraid with Obama's appointment of Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education. :rolleyes:

Obama's Betrayal of Public Education?

Unfortunately, Obama has appointed as his secretary of education someone who actually embodies this utterly punitive, anti-intellectual, corporatized and test-driven model of schooling.

Barack Obama's selection of Arne Duncan for secretary of education does not bode well either for the political direction of his administration nor for the future of public education. Obama's call for change falls flat with this appointment, not only because Duncan largely defines schools within a market-based and penal model of pedagogy, but also because he does not have the slightest understanding of schools as something other than adjuncts of the corporation at best or the prison at worse. The first casualty in this scenario is a language of social and political responsibility capable of defending those vital institutions that expand the rights, public goods and services central to a meaningful democracy. This is especially true with respect to the issue of public schooling and the ensuing debate over the purpose of education, the role of teachers as critical intellectuals, the politics of the curriculum and the centrality of pedagogy as a moral and political practice.
Duncan, CEO of the Chicago Public Schools, presided over the implementation and expansion of an agenda that militarized and corporatized the third largest school system in the nation, one that is about 90 percent poor and nonwhite. Under Duncan, Chicago took the lead in creating public schools run as military academies, vastly expanded draconian student expulsions, instituted sweeping surveillance practices, advocated a growing police presence in the schools, arbitrarily shut down entire schools and fired entire school staffs. A recent report, "Education on Lockdown," claimed that partly under Duncan's leadership "Chicago Public Schools (CPS) has become infamous for its harsh zero tolerance policies. Although there is no verified positive impact on safety, these policies have resulted in tens of thousands of student suspensions and an exorbitant number of expulsions."[4] Duncan's neoliberal ideology is on full display in the various connections he has established with the ruling political and business elite in Chicago.[5] He led the Renaissance 2010 plan, which was created for Mayor Daley by the Commercial Club of Chicago - an organization representing the largest businesses in the city. The purpose of Renaissance 2010 was to increase the number of high quality schools that would be subject to new standards of accountability - a code word for legitimating more charter schools and high stakes testing in the guise of hard-nosed empiricism. Chicago's 2010 plan targets 15 percent of the city district's alleged underachieving schools in order to dismantle them and open 100 new experimental schools in areas slated for gentrification. Most of the new experimental schools have eliminated the teacher union. The Commercial Club hired corporate consulting firm A.T. Kearney to write Ren2010, which called for the closing of 100 public schools and the reopening of privatized charter schools, contract schools (more charters to circumvent state limits) and "performance" schools. Kearney's web site is unapologetic about its business-oriented notion of leadership, one that John Dewey thought should be avoided at all costs. It states, "Drawing on our program-management skills and our knowledge of best practices used across industries, we provided a private-sector perspective on how to address many of the complex issues that challenge other large urban education transformations."[6]

Duncan's advocacy of the Renaissance 2010 plan alone should have immediately disqualified him for the Obama appointment. At the heart of this plan is a privatization scheme for creating a "market" in public education by urging public schools to compete against each other for scarce resources and by introducing "choice" initiatives so that parents and students will think of themselves as private consumers of educational services.[7] As a result of his support of the plan, Duncan came under attack by community organizations, parents, education scholars and students. These diverse critics have denounced it as a scheme less designed to improve the quality of schooling than as a plan for privatization, union busting and the dismantling of democratically-elected local school councils. They also describe it as part of neighborhood gentrification schemes involving the privatization of public housing projects through mixed finance developments.[8] (Tony Rezko, an Obama and Blagojevich campaign supporter, made a fortune from these developments along with many corporate investors.) Some of the dimensions of public school privatization involve Renaissance schools being run by subcontracted for-profit companies - a shift in school governance from teachers and elected community councils to appointed administrators coming disproportionately from the ranks of business. It also establishes corporate control over the selection and model of new schools, giving the business elite and their foundations increasing influence over educational policy. No wonder that Duncan had the support of David Brooks, the conservative op-ed writer for The New York Times.


_http://www.truthout.org/121708R
 

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