Bird strike leaves MASSIVE hole in United Airlines jet as it lands at Denver air

[loreta]

I tend to think it's a bird strike. A large Canada goose of say 15 pounds in weight hitting the 'softer' parts an aircraft travelling at several hundred miles per hour would be capable of causing the type of damage shown in the picture I reckon.

Are you sure? A bird is made of flesh. How flesh can make a damage like this? I know that some birds can make an accident but a hole like this? Ok, maybe if the airplane is made of cardboard, plastic or thin aluminium. I don't think that an airplane is made of these 3 materials.

Is there an engineer here that can maybe give his point of vue about this? I am very curious. Because we will learn something! I like to learn. :)

Edit: change a verb tense.

loreta, check out the link provided by Vulcan59 in his earlier post.

Geez, the poor birds, what a way to go.

We should however keep our options open with stories like these because it's a fairly safe bet that not all such incidents are caused by birds. For example:

International Space Station damaged by meteor

Poor birds! This is terrible. I am feel sorry for them. My.

So maybe it is a bird or maybe not. The possibilities are open, right.

 

[Search]

If it was a bird surely the bird was made in metal. ;) Or the airplane is made as butter. Do they really think that people are moron to believe this?

Always, almost always, when there is an aircraft accident they LIE.

Hi loreta,
Your post made once again rethink about what could it be. I understand the accidents with birds, when bird can hit into engine of the plane and cause some trouble. Also, I think that they may explain almost of these accident with birds, which in fact, could be something else, because these kind of accident happens rarely. And there are not a lot of witnesses in such cases.
One can fall into water from high above and this water would be for him the same as asphalt. It can be an asphalt for ypu from the heigh of 30 m, if you don't know the technic of correct landing. (I read about it on Russian websites). But it is water and a flash. I don't know what about metal and flash, it is hard to believe.

What I found about Boeing 737
_http://www.aftd.com/TCDS_PDFS/A20WE_35.pdf

Maximum Operating Altitude: The maximum operating altitude is 45,100 feet.

But then, you had to know at what high it was flying that day.

They said that it may be goose or duck.
The one of the most high flying bird that I found and I may be wrong is Asian goose or Bar-headed Goose
_http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/06/110610-highest-flying-birds-geese-himalaya-mountains-animals/

According to wiki
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar-headed_Goose

...A mid-sized goose, it measures 71–76 centimetres (28–30 in) in total length and weighs 1.87–3.2 kg (4.1–7.1 lb)....

It interesting if 2-3kg weight goose can cause such hole in a plane.

Also another, and it seems to be the most, high flying bird is Rüppell's Vulture
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCppell%27s_Vulture

A Rüppell's Vulture was confirmed to have been ingested by a jet engine of an airplane flying over Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire on November 29, 1973 at an altitude of 11,000 metres (36,100 ft). In August 2010 a Rüppell's Vulture escaped a bird of prey site in Scotland, prompting warnings to pilots in the area to keep an eye out due to the danger of collision

As I understad this bird commonly linhabits Africa.
But, maybe it could take place such event as in Scotland. IMO, it is more possibly that Rüppell's Vulture could cause such hole in a plain, because this bird bigger than goose and the weight is bigger. Here is again from wiki about Rüppell's Vulture :

Adults are 85–97 cm (33–38 in) long,[4] with a wingspan of 2.26 to 2.6 metres (7.4 to 8.5 ft), and a weight that ranges from 6.4 to 9 kg (14 to 20 lb)

But as I said before, you need to know at what high Boeing 737 was flying that day in order to know which type of bird could/couldn't make such damage.


Add: I understand that such event as bird strike could took place, but maybe in this case it was something else.

 

[Palinurus]

But as I said before, you need to know at what high Boeing 737 was flying that day in order to know which type of bird could/couldn't make such damage.

According to the original article the plane was landing and the impact occurred about 25 miles away from touchdown. So it was pretty low already.

 

[Search]

But as I said before, you need to know at what high Boeing 737 was flying that day in order to know which type of bird could/couldn't make such damage.

According to the original article the plane was landing and the impact occurred about 25 miles away from touchdown. So it was pretty low already.

Yes and the same with the speed.
As I understand from reading here:
_http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/230309/

Average landing speed of a Boeing 737-800 is 135-160kts
135 Knots is equivalent to 250 kilometres per hour
160kts = 296 km per hour

I think it is enought speed to make in glass, but in metal I don't know.
I think, if it was bird it must be a big bird to make such hole in metal.

 

[jhonny]

Difficult to be sure that it's not a birdstrike. Have a look at other birdstrike pictures here.

Right!, very difficult to be sure. It could be a bird.

 

[Al Today]

Besides the obvious damage to the airplane, are there any physical remains like flesh, bones or feathers left inside that hole? Wouldn't there be blood splatter or some other sort of body fluid? I realize that while traveling at high speed, body fluid may roll off, dissipate. Like rain on a car windshield rolling off while traveling a freeway speed. But I must wonder, wouldn't there be any physical remains from that bird? If that was indeed a bird. Wouldn't there be body parts left inside that hole? Feathers, bones, something? Are we to believe what they say just because they say so? Nothing to see here folks, move along...

 

[Palinurus]

wouldn't there be any physical remains from that bird? If that was indeed a bird. Wouldn't there be body parts left inside that hole? Feathers, bones, something?

This photograph from the original article:

shows a large stain above the impact hole.

The article further states:

Wildlife experts believe that the bird involved in the collision Tuesday morning was likely a large goose or duck.
However, the exact species will be identified when officials from the Smithsonian Institution in Washington analyze the remains of the unfortunate fowl, which were recovered from the surface of the jet.

 

[Cosmos]

I tend to think it's a bird strike. A large Canada goose of say 15 pounds in weight hitting the 'softer' parts an aircraft travelling at several hundred miles per hour would be capable of causing the type of damage shown in the picture I reckon.

Are you sure? A bird is made of flesh. How flesh can make a damage like this? I know that some birds can make an accident but a hole like this? Ok, maybe if the airplane is made of cardboard, plastic or thin aluminium. I don't think that an airplane is made of these 3 materials.

Is there an engineer here that can maybe give his point of vue about this? I am very curious. Because we will learn something! I like to learn. :)

Edit: change a verb tense.

as far as I remember all commercial planes are made up of a very thin aluminum "skin" to make the planes as lightweight as possible ?

I found this article wich refers to the Alumium used for Boeing 737:
(http://jwheeler59.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/grace-under-pressure/)

So how much stress can be involved? After all, the pressure difference is only a few pounds per square inch (psi.) different between ground and cruising altitude, isn’t it? Yes. At ground level the air pressure is about 14.7 psi. At 35,000 feet the air pressure is 3.5 psi and the cabin pressure is typically adjusted to the equivalent of 6,500 feet of altitude, or 11.5 psi. Therefore, when at altitude the internal pressure that the airplane’s skin has to hold in is 11.5 minus 3.5, or 8 psi. Doesn’t sound like much, does it? But what is the force then that is trying to pull the thin aluminum skin apart, due to that internal pressure? The simplistic formula for that tensile stress is:

Stress = [(pressure) (radius)] / (thickness)

where “thickness” refers to the aluminum skin, which, for a Boeing 737 is 0.040″, or forty-thousandths of an inch thick. This is a little less than 3/64 th’s of an inch. The internal diameter of a 737 cabin, from the internet, is 11 feet 7 inches, so the radius would be 69.5 inches. So if you do the calculation you come up with 13,900 psi. This is the force at 35,000 feet that is trying to tear each square inch of the aluminum skin apart. Another way to look at it is to think of how much length of aluminum makes up one square inch. This is 1 inch divided by 0.040″ of thickness. That equals 25 inches. So each 25 inches of skin has to contain a tensile force of 13,900 pounds trying to stretch the skin. Picture suspending 3 SUV’s from a chain connected by clamps on either side of a 25 inch long strip of aluminum, 0.040 inches thick.

so it's seems like the skin of an Boeing 737 plane is made up from very thin aluminum.
so I think it is entirely possible that even little birds can make holes into those planes.

 

[weasel3d]

Another interesting point is, knowing how thin the skin of these planes is, how do you think a plane made all that damage and punched right through multiple reenforced super thick walls at the Pentagon, on 9/11? Not, IMHO.

 

[Ca.]

Yes would think it as well (as others, have posted) that it is what possibly has been claimed.

If the impact were debris from a small meteorite, it would have more than likely went through the other side, or tore off the front of the nose of the aircraft, which may caused deadly structural damage, and possible instability to maintain flight in the air. Very lucky.


Could Radar Keep Birds from Colliding with Aircraft?
_http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=avian-aircraft-radar

 

[Cosmos]

Another interesting point is, knowing how thin the skin of these planes is, how do you think a plane made all that damage and punched right through multiple reenforced super thick walls at the Pentagon, on 9/11? Not, IMHO.

I also thought about that some time back after I saw a german documentary in wich a video was shown that showed a commercial plane crashing to the ground. (_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVo6nJTZ7D8&list=PL004853194232FF27&index=21&feature=plpp_video)

while the plane was at the hight of a wooden telephone pole wich had a diameter of about 20 cm (according to the speaker Robert Stein) the right wing of the plane hit this pole and almost completly dissected the wing before the pole itself broke apart (specific part is from 01:00:40 -01:03:05).

he also presents some interesting pictures of birdstrikes and a video in wich a truck crashes through a commercial planes trunk.
the whole part of the presentation wich describes all this goes from 00:58:53 - 01:03:57.

I think Robert Stein suggests that it weren't commercial planes that hit the towers. maybe somekind of drone or missle was involved ?
also another interesting thing he shows is a footage (01:02:10 - 01:03:05) of the dustcloud directly after the first plane hit the tower. what you can see there is what appears to be somekind of pyrotechnical effect wich cut out the silhouette of the plane after it already has crashed into the building. maybe it is just an illusion because the fire needed sometime to develope out of the dust because of oxygen feed ?

so the question is if it is physically possible that the wings of an commercial plane can cause that kind of damage in the mantle of the WTC buildings ?

PS: just a note that the presentation itself has a number of quite interesting points and footages but it also discusses occult things and all that illuminaty stuff so I would take it with with a pinch of salt.

 

[loreta]

Thanks for all the information about airplanes, materials, dimensions, etc. This is very interesting.

Curiously this happened at the DENVER airport...

 

[MK Scarlett]

Thanks for all the information about airplanes, materials, dimensions, etc. This is very interesting.

Indeed!

Curiously this happened at the DENVER airport...

Yes, I thought too about this on yesterday. Maybe a sign...

I thought about the fact than nothing was discovered about a bird in this fact... When I look for pics from Google, the planes often have always the bird embedded (the poor...). Here, there is nothing.
Even by thinking it is probably a bird (it is the fear of pilots) as always suggested here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28648.msg358756.html#msg358756, I cannot decide if it was not something else.

 

[SethianSeth]

Forgive me if this is noise, but I thought it was interesting. This thread caught my eye, because my band just released an album this year with a song called "Birdstrike" on it. It was actually quite surreal seeing that title in a news story! The song deals with the downward spiral of an American man amidst the bureaucracy of increased airline security controls, as the birdies on his shoulder convince him that he should bring down the whole world with his rage. If anyone remembers the band DEVO, Jerry Casale (bass/synth) lent a personal "secondary screening" story to the breakdown of the song.

Its a pretty dark tune, but it very much has to do with the consequence of hubris and accepting lies as proper justification for violence. I agree with Niall, above, that while this was most likely a real "birdstrike," we should be vigilant looking for similar stories in the news that may be related to fireballs. I'm just glad that the DHS didn't issue a warning that terrorists will likely begin training killer birds to take down American craft. :P

For your listening pleasure, here's a link to the song:

http://soundcloud.com/notbloodpaint/birdstrike

 

[Search]

Thanks Pashalis that you found what metal the nose of the plane is made of . I was searching for it, but couldn't find.

Curiously this happened at the DENVER airport...

I also thought about. :)