Body by Science / HIIT Experiment

We've been doing it for 2 months kind of irregularly (every 1-2 weeks), 6 sessions so far. /.../

Now, my problem is that I can't get to exhaustion with the dead lift exercise - my back starts hurting as hell. I really tried hard keeping a good posture and so on, tried different things etc., but I can't get it to work.

The squats don't work either - if I don't use a heavy weight, I can't get to exhaustion, but if I use one, it's just too dangerous and I can't get to exhaustion because I'm terrified of getting hurt.

Does anyone else use free weights and has some advice, perhaps alternative ways of doing dead lift and squats? Perhaps using dumbbells instead of a barbell might help?

if you say that you performed the exercise with a good posture and do not have any typical irregularity such as scoliosis, the most likely thing is that your lumbar area is noticeably weaker than your ischiosural (something quite common), although isolated work is not the best thing in this case if it would be good to try exercises like the "good morning sitting" or this one (which gave me very good results in strength gains in a short time)


(7:16). ... Regarding the squat I will not deny you that it has its degree of danger and it is preferable to work in cages in case you stay down without going up ... it is important to place the bar well on your upper back without using cushions that actually proboca more pain in the long run because the back position is not ideal, the ideal is to retract the scapulae and place the bar on the natural "cushion" that your trapezoids will form or you can also try with a leg as they said ... and as an alternative to those who do not have weight for reasons dibersas, this is fine for the moment:


and although it is a bit away from the method of discussion, it is strictly rigor HIT is not bad, it is quite entertaining to see how you progress ... make about 10 or 15 repetitions of each exercise to move to the next level and careful to do it without adequate cushioning mainly by the wrists.
 
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genero81

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Okay, so I work Tuesday through Saturday nights. I usually rest on Sunday's because I'm pretty spent after working all week and it's usually really busy on the weekends. Plus the community center where I work out is closed on Sunday. So Monday is pretty much always a workout day. I got up this morning and put on the interview that Keit provided a link to and took notes. So I had a pretty good idea of what I was doing and headed to the gym. I did the five exercises that were recommended. Actually, dead lifts were not one of them. I've done a lot of working out over the years and I've never done movements that slowly. Wow, the continuous stress on the muscles is intense. For chest press I used dumbbells which I usually work out with anyway. The slower movements really worked the chest muscles! I've never felt my pecs scream like that before. It made me realize that the faster movements are recruiting a lot more work from the arm muscles which I sort of suspected all along. Normally I would do a set or two of dumbbell flys or crossovers to supplement. So that was the biggest surprise. Finished with squats using a barbell with just 15 pound weights added to each side. So 75 pounds total. My leg muscles were screaming! Probably could have done another set or two but I checked the clock and I was already about 16-17 minutes in so I called it. Almost felt a little self conscious leaving the place so soon after arriving but I was spent.

So I think it was a good start. Looking forward to getting the book so I can better understand the science behind it so I can really know what I'm doing. Can't wait until next Monday!
 

Laura

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It occurred to me last night that maybe strong elastic exercise bands could also be employed for such as the rowing exercise and even the leg press. Just hook the band(s) around something for pulling, and lie on your back and hook them around your feet in the air for leg press effect. If the bands are strong enough, it can do the job.
 

birk

Padawan Learner
It occurred to me last night that maybe strong elastic exercise bands could also be employed for such as the rowing exercise and even the leg press. Just hook the band(s) around something for pulling, and lie on your back and hook them around your feet in the air for leg press effect. If the bands are strong enough, it can do the job.
I just thought of the same thing. I think it is possible to most of the excercises with resistance bands. Maybe it is safer than free weights when the muscles are nearing failure? Also the leg press can maybe be done as a more strenous squat with bands?

 
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BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
Never ever use weights... Its cheating! And can twist and wrench the joints and sockets about in funny ways when you start getting tired... It takes its toll. Always use your own body weight or a 'contraption' of sorts to use your own weight and/or force-of-strength turned against itself eg something like Laura's elastic-exercising-bands idea.
After a good 10 mins stretching with some star-jumps to open up lungs and give waist and knees a good roll with hands-on-hips: Keep to push-ups (knuckles are best as it positions the wrist better with down-force and teaches to learn to enjoy some much-needed pain :evil:) sit-ups, squat-thrusts (bring knees far up under as you can to chest), leg-raises (don't let feet touch ground), and finally... a damned good thumping on a heavy-duty punch-bag... Make sure bag heavy and dense - you don't want the bag flaying about after every little jab - and its good to get used to forcibly 'digging in': Face punch-bag straight-on in "sitting-stance" (in Taekwondo) - not one-leg-forward-other-leg-back like the boxing stances.
Sitting-stance gives exercised the waist-strength build-up to an even keel both sides of body-core evenly. Keep knees slightly bent giving slight 'squat' of sorts, and feet faced directly forward at all times... Its uncomfortable at first but builds legs and buttocks as power builds up from the ground up and up through ALL your body nice and evenly... Bare feet is best, to get used to good grip of soles and ripples nicely the calves - learn to relish the blisters :-) (they will subside with time) With each blow, bring your arms right back behind shoulders and follow-thru into the centre of bag - not just impacting the surface! Start with 25 sets of jabs on each arm, its awkward at first in sitting-stance but gets you learning to find hidden power within body strength combined with channeling body-force of gravity without lunging about. After jabs do left-right-cross sets 25, then quads 25 untill lungs are on fire and arms like lead!.. ALWAYS in sitting stance straight head-on... You will feel the core getting nice and tight evenly the legs, shoulders, back, buttocks and most importantly the waist... Look after the waist and the rest tend to follow suit.

This builds up strength and power more organically the BMI and keeps in tune with your own body's natural frame.

Never. Use. Weights.
 

Gandalf

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It occurred to me last night that maybe strong elastic exercise bands could also be employed for such as the rowing exercise and even the leg press. Just hook the band(s) around something for pulling, and lie on your back and hook them around your feet in the air for leg press effect. If the bands are strong enough, it can do the job.
I just thought of the same thing. I think it is possible to most of the excercises with resistance bands. Maybe it is safer than free weights when the muscles are nearing failure? Also the leg press can maybe be done as a more strenous squat with bands?
I really like the idea of strong elastic exercise bands :wow: and I think I will adopt that. Reading the book now and should be ready to give a go to this kind of training pretty soon.
 

luc

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It occurred to me last night that maybe strong elastic exercise bands could also be employed for such as the rowing exercise and even the leg press. Just hook the band(s) around something for pulling, and lie on your back and hook them around your feet in the air for leg press effect. If the bands are strong enough, it can do the job.
Well, I'm not so sure about this - I tried using rubber bands for rowing-type exercises in the past, but it didn't really work for me. I just couldn't get to exhaustion, and it didn't feel right. Perhaps the rubber thingy wasn't strong enough or maybe I did something wrong though.

But according to BBS, the key is to slowly, gradually exhaust the muscles to the max. This means that optimally, the weight/strain changes along the "strength curve" of the particular muscle group you are training. So for example when bench pressing, you typically have not that much strength at the beginning of the exercise, then you reach full strength, and then it gets more difficult again - just how the muscles work.

That's why the authors recommend special machines that can "follow along" these natural strength curves, which helps exhausting each muscle group even better than would be possible using a fixed weight/"flat curve". But normal machines (fixed weight) and free weights still give good results with this technique, especially if you have a partner who helps you complete the last 1-2 repetitions, which mimics the effect of a special machine.

Considering this, I'm not sure the rubber thingies can do the trick - because they progressively increase the load, i.e. at the beginning of the movement, there is hardly any resistance, and only at the very end does it get really heavy. So you don't get muscle exhaustion during the full (slow) movement, OSIT?

Maybe if the specific strength curves of certain muscle groups are approximately increasing in a linear way, a strong rubber band would fit, don't know. Maybe others have more experience with this.
 
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Konstantin

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Well, I'm not so sure about this - I tried using rubber bands for rowing-type exercises in the past, but it didn't really work for me. I just couldn't get to exhaustion, and it didn't feel right. Perhaps the rubber thingy wasn't strong enough or maybe I did something wrong though.

But according to BBS, the key is to slowly, gradually exhaust the muscles to the max. This means that optimally, the weight/strain changes along the "strength curve" of the particular muscle group you are training. So for example when bench pressing, you typically have not that much strength at the beginning of the exercise, then you reach full strength, and then it gets more difficult again - just how the muscles work.

That's why the authors recommend special machines that can "follow along" these natural strength curves, which helps exhausting each muscle group even better than would be possible using a fixed weight/"flat curve". But normal machines (fixed weight) and free weights still give good results with this technique, especially if you have a partner who helps you complete the last 1-2 repetitions, which mimics the effect of a special machine.

Considering this, I'm not sure the rubber thingies can do the trick - because they progressively increase the load, i.e. at the beginning of the movement, there is hardly any resistance, and only at the very end does it get really heavy. So you don't get muscle exhaustion during the full (slow) movement, OSIT?

Maybe if the specific strength curves of certain muscle groups are approximately increasing in a linear way, a strong rubber band would fit, don't know. Maybe others have more experience with this.
I agree with Luc. I have tried training with resistance bands and generally, they are not good enough for me for this kind of exercise.
They are good for a warming up the muscle, but not good enough to exhaust the muscle.

Also, the resistance bands can be used for training smaller muscle groups like Biceps or triceps. You can exhaust those muscles with resistance bands.

Then we are talking about bigger muscle groups like back, chest, shoulders, and legs then for me the best way is to use machines.

When talking about this kind of training I choose machines because they are safer. When you are near muscle failure and you want to make few more repetitions, machines are safer because your movements are directed by the machine axis of movement. You don't have to use other muscle groups to stabilize your body and keep the proper form, while free weights are totally opposite.

For example, if you try to do squats on a smith machine you can focus yourself much better on the targeted muscles and exhausted them much efficiently and much safer then doing the same exercise with a barbell and a free weight. Version with free weights is more challenging and I think that only more experienced practitioners should do it.

In a free weight version, you can easy injure your lower back if you try to make it until muscle failure. Maybe after a few years of experience and when the body will memorize the movements and with a good training partner you can try it with free weights.

Also, you can lift more weight and isolate the muscle better on a machine.

And there is one exercise that I found that it is better at least for me to do it with free weights and that is the deadlift. In this exercise you can't go until failure without putting more weights and put more weights increases the possibility of injury. The key point is perfect form while doing the exercise. Key moments are the starting lift ( when you lift the weights from the ground ) and the ending movement when you leave the weights on the ground.It must be done very carefully and very focused, with perfect posture so you won't hurt yourself.
 

Laura

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Well, the exercise bands was just an idea for those who don't have the equipment or would find it hard to get. Perhaps they would work for someone who is in a weak condition to start with? For you strong guys, I know they would be a waste of time!!!! Geeze, when I see the pile of weights the guys here lift, I'm pretty sure that no stretchy band is gonna replace that!!!
 

c.a.

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A contact had sent me a pair of Resistance Bands.
They seemed like a neat idea, and do have value as form of resistance training. So now thinking I'll give them a try, why not. :-)
 
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genero81

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Well, the exercise bands was just an idea for those who don't have the equipment or would find it hard to get. Perhaps they would work for someone who is in a weak condition to start with? For you strong guys, I know they would be a waste of time!!!! Geeze, when I see the pile of weights the guys here lift, I'm pretty sure that no stretchy band is gonna replace that!!!
:lol: I think it could be an option for certain cases. I've done a lot of strength training over the years. When I lived in Dickson my family had a Bowflex. That was the only option I had for strength training. Basically the same principle. It worked okay, better than nothing.

From what I can tell, and I don't have the book yet, you're going to need weights to put the load on the muscles necessary to stress them enough to get results from a 7-20 minute workout.
 

seek10

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Thank you all for the discussion. This looks much more intense than we did as a part of Keto( I think Jack Kruse thread). I got the book and will need to read and try to do it. It looks this needs some body to encourage it. App is a good option when nobody is around. I got the android app mentioned "Time Under Load", but the app interface response looks very slow. I will check whether any other app much better. I am looking forward to doing it, as i lost touch with physical exercise for a while.
 
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