Brazil Elections

[Alejo]

the supreme court is clearly interpreting laws according personal pro-socialist political activism of the ministers, and in this way it has been causing a lot of confusion and legal uncertainty to denigrate the current (Bolsonaro) government, but I believe that most brazilians already know that their political objective is to take Brazil on the same way of Venezuela, because that was always the plan of Lula, Hugo Chaves and Fidel Castro, since when they created the infamous Foro de São Paulo (in 1990).

I guess time will tell, I am not sure if they would benefit from Brazil going full blown Venezuela, but they would benefit from Brazil falling in line with the rest of South America in terms of control of the populace via the response to the virus. I also wonder what will happen now, this region has always been in a constant rebound from left to right, but this time it doesn't feel like the early 2000's when Chavez, Evo and Kirchner were actually standing up against neo liberalism and globalism.

Today the rise of the left comes with postmodernism, and inclusive language and so on. I do wonder what it will come down to should he run and become the leader of the country.

 

[Border Dog]

I do wonder what it will come down to should he run and become the leader of the country.

Lula himself has today a very high "rejection" (around 60% or more) of brasilian people which "Never More" will give a vote to him.

he can even run, but due to high rejection there is no way he win a (honest) election, except for electoral fraud that cannot be discarded

Therefore, it is most likely he will use the same candidate (Fernando Haddad) that has already lost last elections, and until the next, create a lot of confusion to wear down the current government. It is exactly the game we are watching, but brazilians are attentive and will not be fooled so easily.

BTW, he free or imprisoned probably will not make difference in that sense.

I agree with you -- We'll See !!

 

[Border Dog]

Personally I don't like politics, but as Plato taught, anyone who doesn't like politics, another will assume that right in his name. In this way, I try to defend what seems to be more correct.

after read others posts on this thread, I need to say that "Adjectives" used by mainstream media about Bolsonaro, is subversive propaganda based on Frankfurt school using negative dialetics. Genocide, Facist, Racist, Xenophobic, Misoginous, Homophobic, etc, etc. it's "Fantasy, cheap Sensationalism".

For who want to know what represents Brazil from Bolsonaro Government and why "Lula" can not represent Brazil again, please read bellow (and check primary source of info)

the info can be seen as Official, from main diplomatic brazilian representant, after all the fuss Lula did with the suspension of the trials, made by a minister who will probably no longer be able to walk peacefully through the streets.

------

Ernesto Araújo, Brazilian Chancellor
has just published a series of tweets “ just to remember what foreign policy was like in the Lula era ”.

Hostiliating USA and Europe, ignoring Japan, discriminating against Israel, detaching Brazil from developed countries and democracies, closing South America to create a cohesive bloc of corruption, terrorism and crime, fraternizing with anti-Semites, financing dictators, defending the anti-life and anti-family agenda at the UN, losing trade agreements, abandoning our exporters and investors so as not to disturb the allies in Argentina and Bolivia, deindustrializing the country, being called a diplomatic dwarf, helping Chavez and Maduro to destroy Venezuela, adopting a submissive attitude towards from China, offend Africa, talk about peace and cooperation to hide the robbery, despise the conservative and Christian sentiment of the Brazilian people, etc. ”, said the Chancellor in his long list.

Ernesto added provocating: “So, dear Lula-followers: double your tongue before talking about our current foreign policy (…). This is not more Lula-land, this is Brazil ”.

 

[Border Dog]

complementing my previous post.

After Minister Edson Fachin, of the Supreme Federal Court (STF), overturned the condemnations of former president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, citizens held a demonstration against the decision on Wednesday (10 mars) in front of the magistrate's house in Curitiba , Paraná.

I said, " this minister of STF probably no longer be able to walk peacefully through the streets ".

So, his home and neighborhoods will not let him forget that badly done, because no judge overturns federal lawsuits claiming that It was tried in the wrong city / place.

Brazilians are warm-blooded Latinos.

 

[Alejo]

The way I see Bolsonaro is similar to the way I see Trump, a perhaps questionable character that I would not want to be friends with, but who was elected to lead his country by his fellow citizens, and that ought to be respected. I think the propaganda against him goes back years, just as the one against Maduro, or Duterte.

But in Brazil, and I suspect it's because of the whole covid nonsense, the effort to get rid of him might have entered a new more active chapter than simply propaganda agains his character, Lula being released might be the way they're preparing to oust him as they did Dilma in 2015, which interestingly enough was disliked even being the ideological protégé of Lula, just because she was essential in creating BRICS.

I think seeing the way the US and the EU behave towards South America, and other countries in the world, is the easiest way to see that these ideological lines of left vs. right are completely illusory. How can the US, for instance, be against the Leftist government of Venezuela and Bolivia but not the one of Argentina (right now, because they didn't much like Kirchner)? while at the same time be against he right wing government of Brazil but not against the right wing of Colombia?

 

[Border Dog]

The way I see Bolsonaro is similar to the way I see Trump, a perhaps questionable character that I would not want to be friends with

I understand what you mean, but I'm sorry, I think the real problem is not personal and the question of be friend of Trump or Bolsonaro is a very complex self-defense theme.

I can be wrong, but I guess you (all) may not understood well why Trump and Bolsonaro was legitimately elected as president, and because of that, both are systematically attacked in the most degrading possible moral ways, to be seen as the worst "individual leaders".

Both was elected not intended to be good presidents, but to be the Least Worst Option available, who "honestly" speech what they think, defend individual freedom, conservative behavior, economic growth of the people and the whole country, that is, exactly the values that the Globalist Agenda intends to be deconstructed.

Payed globalist / progressist supporters and followers call that individual self-defense as Nacionalism, like an pejorative extremism, and So, relativize with Facism, Racism, all bad moral propagandas to perform the "Demoralization Step", as bellow ..

At this point, I'm sorry again, but the real thing is a State of War issue where "My enemy's enemy is my friend".

follow the whole process of subversion, which few people are aware of It, but all (target) people are involved.

Before try to understand why Lula is rising again from Jail by a clear MISTRUST JUSTICE deliberated and monocratic act, I need to remember briefly why Dilma Roussef was impeached:

Soon after Dilma was re-elected, the economic disaster of his administration broke out, and the people began to organize protests against her de-government. Then Dilma Roussef simple ordered to army suppress the protests by force, but the military refused to practice violence against peaceful people, and this refusal was followed by all other police, civil and military institutions.

With the majority of the people, military and police seeing Dilma wanting to act like a "Venezuelan Dictator", her government has become "morally unsustainable".

Bolsonaro always vehemently fought the left, he is a former army captain who has always been close to the military and police forces, so as a good opportunist he is, started be pushed to be the next president of Brazil, just being what he always has been, practically without campaign. He simply placed himself on that scenario, promising to fight the ideologies planted by the left.

At this time, Lula was practically surrounded on all sides to be rightfully arrested and politically discarded, and if Dilma or anyone else had managed to continue with the Agenda of Foro de São Paulo, Lula would end up being released by his partners, which unfortunately happened even under the Bolsonaro government, so that, the great power project can be resumed.

Why Lula rise again on this scenario, we can see as a Metaphor in next image, considering he was arrested (not dead by shot) and conveniently released to chalenge Bolsonaro and take the power again, that is, more of the same leftist Agenda over brazilian people !!

So, under all this political, economic and social complex context:

- Lula match with -- "My Enemy's Friend is My Enemy"
- Bolsonaro match with -- "My Enemy's Enemy is my Friend"

Not forget I'm looking at Brazil people, it's not merely a personal point of view.

For who want to understand more better "the Friends and the Enemies" of peaceful people taking of a potential target to be Divided and Conquered, please watch the video bellow.

 

[Alejo]

I understand what you mean, but I'm sorry, I think the real problem is not personal and the question of be friend of Trump or Bolsonaro is a very complex self-defense theme.

I can be wrong, but I guess you (all) may not understood well why Trump and Bolsonaro was legitimately elected as president, and because of that, both are systematically attacked in the most degrading possible moral ways, to be seen as the worst "individual leaders".

Both was elected not intended to be good presidents, but to be the Least Worst Option available, who "honestly" speech what they think, defend individual freedom, conservative behavior, economic growth of the people and the whole country, that is, exactly the values that the Globalist Agenda intends to be deconstructed.

So, what you're saying is that Bolsonaro was placed in power to be the example of what to attack going forward? as in the problem that they then would offer a solution to? and the same was with Trump?

I am not entirely sure that such was the way it worked, as much as I give the PTB a lot of credit for having tremendous reach with their power, I do think there's a population factor that played in Bolsonaro's arrival and in Trumps arrival. Now I do not live in Brazil so there's very little I can speak to from experience, but I do live in the US and I can say that Trump resonated with millions of people in the nation and his election was legitimate, I would think the same happened with Bolsonaro.

I think there was a need to get rid of Dilma at that time because she was making Brazil and the BRICS something of a threat, now it's time to get rid of Bolsonaro because he doesn't want to play covid and Lula is more than glad to play along. I don't know if in this instance it had much to do with ideology per se, it seems to me that the most useful person will be placed aided to make it to a position of authority.

 

[Border Dog]

So, what you're saying is that Bolsonaro was placed in power to be the example of what to attack going forward? as in the problem that they then would offer a solution to? and the same was with Trump?

pehaps "polarized perception" may be a step to overcome. I said self-defense for the attacks practiced by Subversion (not "what to attack going forward").

avoiding this semantic doubt, my (3) answers are Yes, Yes, Yes.

Socialism which works as capitalism of state and proletary communism ambiguity can not survive whitout exploit and explore own/other people/resources to make money, So they sure have Know-How and (survivor) experiences to do So.

It's much more easy force the people to do the hard work supreesing (human) rights by an Controled Dictatorship, than by an Republican Conservative Democratic (Honest Free) leadership. The Elites know this, and either Trump and Bolsonaro are not fools.

I reinforce that Bolsonaro is a Friend (of people), and the loyalty of this friendship will be tested soon. We'll See ..

if one represents the people legitimately, of course he is taking by example of what people "choose" to do, even for whom "personaly" don't like him for any other reason.

Choice processes can be partially aware and partially unaware, So is a complex (paradoxal) issue which involve Coletive Unconscious.

----
Note:
Subversion is a psych war with systematic unexpected asymmetric subliminal attacks. Each target who can not self-defense and no have a (honest) friend to give protection is an easy prey to be "conquered".

Subversion agents seems to be nice friends to thoroughly study the behavior of the targets, getting info to exploit and explore to manipulate their behavior by psych subliminal (subtil) influence. Power Influence.

A simple provocative suggestion (as propaganda) is not so dangerous and most times can be seen as funny, but sistematic harrasment is pathological psych attack, and harrasment moved by ideological, religious, politic and/or economic interest is "psychological warfare".

----
Obs:
Please, forget Dilma Roussef. You seen me iluded about her. She is an useful idiot (leftist militant) who can not say two or three sentences which make sense. She has always been cause laughter and shame because of her position.

examples of famous Dilma Presidential speachs (to relax)

- (speaking at the UN) proposes dialogue with ISIS to pacify Syria/Iraq.
- she explaining that "don't exist techonology able to store wind". (great!)
- "when rains it causes wet because rain is wet, but there are people who don't like to get wet when it comes out in the rain" .. (not kidding)
- (to explain that no have more money), "works already started will end up later, because the new works starting now will end up first".
- Portugal president refused to met Dilma on official european tour (shameful)
- she mistook a billion with a million and then a trillion (hilarious)
- twenty per cent is one in each four .. (help!!)

 

[Alejo]

I am sorry Border Dog, and it may be just me, but I am having difficulty understanding what you mean. And it could be a language barrier issue, perhaps you could try using a translator like DeepL?

I do not wish to misunderstand what you're trying to say, but it seems to me like you might have fallen on the other extreme of the situation which is equally deceptive and dangerous.

I don't know if it's any benefit to position oneself so entrenched on either the right or the left, one will limit one's vision of reality. Just because currently the right seems to be on the defensive, as there seems to be an effort to use the left as vehicle to impose a global totalitarian system of sorts, does not make the right faultless or their leaders saints. Nor is the adequate response to polarize oneself in a single direction.

I think we all would benefit more from seeing things as objectively as possible, specially with the shifting focus on South America. If it were an ideology thing, a left vs right battle, wouldn't the president of Colombia be in danger of being kicked out? and wouldn't Maduro and Bolsonaro be getting different treatments?

The point I am trying to make is that, the same people that got Dilma out in 2015, are the same ones getting Lula in on 2021, despite the former being the heir to the latter. I am not defending Dilma or her character, nor am I trying to defend Bolsonaro or his character, I am simply trying to understand the political movements from a certain distance.

 

[Border Dog]

The point I am trying to make is that, the same people that got Dilma out in 2015, are the same ones getting Lula in on 2021, despite the former being the heir to the latter.

brazilian people are not so volatile and the majority of us are conservatives

I showed you that One Single Minister of supreme court who "gets Lula in" (again), using what was called by Judicial Contortionism

"the people" is revolted and outraged, and Bolsonaro too,
he is friend of people as I tried to demonstrate ethically ..

 

[Alejo]

brazilian people are not so volatile and the majority of us are conservatives

Well, this is difficult to determine with exactitude, but regardless Lula seems to be a convenient person to have at the helm now and I don't know if it has anything to do with conservatives vs. liberals, the ideologies do not matter, they're just the mask that they hide behind.

 

[Border Dog]

Well, this is difficult to determine with exactitude.

please, just look the official map numbers of people "preferences"

 

[Alejo]

I see that, although the point I am trying to make is that the current effort to remove a conservative from power is not purely because he's a conservative. It's because he's an inconvenient leader to have in Brazil, regardless of his ideological inclination. Does that make sense?

If, for instance, Bolsonaro was all for vaccines and lockdowns, to name but one example, Lula might not have gotten out of his criminal cases and Bolsonaro would be allowed to remain in place.

This is why I warn to not look at what is happening purely form the point of view of left vs right. Look at Argentina for instance, a leftist government is allowed to remain without an issue, just as the one from the right is allowed to remain in Colombia. It has nothing to do with their political leaning in this instance.

I think entrenching oneself to either side of the spectrum can do more harm than good, because all the critical thinking goes by the wayside the minute a leader of your preference makes it to power.

I think Bolsonaro should be allowed to rule if he was elected by the majority, not because he's a conservative, but because he was elected, regardless of what I personally think of his character. Also, if there's an effort to get rid of him, I don't know if it has much to do with simply his conservatism, becase these political labels shift quite rapidly.

 

[Border Dog]

I see that, although the point I am trying to make is that the current effort to remove a conservative from power is not purely because he's a conservative. It's because he's an inconvenient leader to have in Brazil, regardless of his ideological inclination. Does that make sense?

Sure it make sense, but I think partially because Bolsonaro should be much more than inconvenient to Progressists (eufemism for comunist), because he served in the Army during the Military Dictatorship, and belongs to a generation that does not tolerate communism (lol), so he tends to verbally fight all the left policies, in a very reactive way.

In practice it is not quite all that (big mouth) he says literally, because Bolsonaro is very concerned with economic and social issues. The confusions he causes are regarded to not wanting pay the social cost alone, as the country needs an economy more independent of public money, that is, more liberal, otherwise the country will be unable to invest in favor of its own growth, and becomes more dependent of foreign resources.

It must be taken into account that he assumed the country practically broken and he did not let it break until now even with the pandemic, and there is a certain merit in that. The federal govern delivered billions to local governs, and we know that at least US$ 10 bi were deflected by corruption on the locals by opportunists. It's not easy !!

Another aspect that should help in the geo-political understanding of Brazil, is that the country is huge and there are many different foreign cultures mixed (Portuguese, African, Italian, German, Japanese, Arabic, among others) so, anything other than a certain conservatism, causes "political and social" confusion here.

This conservadorism is not just something a political branch, but a natural state of mind for Brazilians to get along well with each other.

Not intended to be accurated, I can say in numbers:

40% of people are conservative (being as Bolsonaro niche)
25% of people are progressist (being as Left, Lula niche)
35% of people are what offer more conveniences (changeable)

So, if Bolsonaro can keep the country economically upright, the Left side have no range to assume the power again, mainly because about 75% of people are aware that the Left has broken the country by diverting money for personal enrichment and to finance a power project for Latin America, and in addition they openly tolerate crime and corruption.

also regard that Bolsonaro is not Saint, he is a professional politician.

BTW, I end this post paraphrasing a unanimity here:

Brazil is not for amateurs. (lol) this really make sense !!

 

[Alejo]

And as the writing was on the wall, Lucas Furtado the attorney general in Brazil requested this Friday to remove President Jair Bolsonaro from the administrative and hierarchical functions of the Ministries of Health, Economy and Civil House, to prevent him from intervening in the management of the coronavirus crisis.

Which is what we were discussing, it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue. It's not a conservative or liberal thing, it's obedience and Bolsonaro simply is not, and now they don't even care if he remains the president, he will be removed from managing emergencies in the country that elected him.