Broken body clock

[Thor]

...
Supplement 5-HTP to Restore Sleep

All my FMS patients start their therapy by taking 50 mg. of 5-HTP 30 minutes before bed, on an empty stomach (90 minutes after or 30 minutes before eating), with four ounces of grape juice. The juice causes the body to release a little insulin, which, though not necessary for 5-HTP to pass the blood-brain barrier, seems to heighten the supplement’s effect. (If you have problems with your blood sugar levels, try taking your 5-HTP with water or milk.) Patients continue to increase their dose over time, and I’ve typically found 300 mg. to be the optimal therapeutic amount.

One of three things will happen when you start by taking 50 mg. of 5-HTP:

1. You fall asleep within 30 minutes and sleep through the night. If so, you should stay on this bedtime dose and add an additional 250 mg. at dinner (for a total of 300 mg. daily). You may find you sleep even better by taking 100 mg. at bedtime and 200 mg. with dinner.

2. Nothing happens. This is a typical response to such a low dose. You should add an additional 50 mg. each night (up to a max of 300 mg.) until you fall asleep within 30 minutes and sleep through the night. Once you’ve discovered your bedtime dose, subtract that amount from 300 mg. and take the remainder with dinner to keep serotonin levels optimal. If you are taking 300 mg. at bedtime and still can’t get to sleep and stay asleep after two days on this dose, then see “Still Can’t Sleep?” on p. 167.

3. You have a reaction. Instead of making you sleepy, the dose makes you more alert. This occurs more often in CFS and chemically sensitive patients who have a sluggish liver. If this happens, discontinue 5-HTP at bedtime. Instead take 50 mg. at a mealtime for two days. (Taking 5-HTP with food slows its absorption, allows the liver to process it more effectively, and shouldn’t make you too sleepy). After two days on 5-HTP with food, increase to 100 mg. with each meal (300 mg. a day). You may need to play around with your dosing. For instance, you can try taking 100 mg. at breakfast and 200 mg. at lunch. If you are only taking 5-HTP at meals and none at bedtime, then you can increase your dose up to 400 mg. daily if it helps.

If your reaction to serotonin goes beyond alertness to rapid heart rate, increased pulse, elevated blood pressure, and agitation, see your doctor. But don’t be alarmed. I have thousands of individuals on 5-HTP, and I assure you that such a reaction is rare. Just be sure to follow the instructions in this chapter carefully.

Increasing serotonin levels is beneficial for 95% of my patients. But there are those—usually at the far CFS end of the spectrum—who have the serotonin sensitivity reaction described in number 3 above, and it just can’t be helped, even by taking 5-HTP with food. Excessive serotonin levels can cause these patients insomnia, headaches, hyperactivity, and increased heart rate.

I finally received my supplements and have started the basics (MultiVitamins, B-vitamin complex, Omega3-fatty acids, probiotics) and as I sleep very lightly and quite poorly, I wanted to add the recommendations from the serotonin deficiency test from UMS where I scored a slight deficiency. Rather than rushing to start with 5-HTP, melatonin and GABA all together, I decided I would restrain my urge to do all at once and rather try to evaluate my reactions to 5-HTP to reach a dosage that works for me and the introduce first Melatonin and later GABA.

The first night with 5-HTP I took 50 mg half an hour before bedtime along with my magnesium as suggested. I went to bed and felt a slight warmth in my skin and particularly in my hands and feet. Furthermore there was a slight and subtle movement of energy from my root chakra that was pulsating slowly up through the spine, where it stopped somewhere between the solar plexus and the throat. I was very relaxed and all was pleasant. However, I was in this relaxed state for quite a long time and couldn't pass from the relaxed state into sleep. When I finally managed to fall a sleep I slept very lightly, very poorly and with many shifting dreams that I can't remember. The situation of being in the very relaxed state that prevents me from passing into normal sleep also happens if I meditate right before going to bed or even if I don the EE breathing program right before bed.

The next night, I thought that I would increase to dosage to 100mg before bed. I had eaten some rice pudding shortly before that so I didn't take it on an empty stomach. Once more, I found myself very relaxed with a stronger sensation of warmth in the skin but this time no energy along the spine. It was 2+ hours before I finally fell a sleep and I slept very lightly and didn't manage to rest at all. I had a dream with a wolf that at first seemed scary but as I didn't run away it turned out it was an elemental that had taken on the shape of a wolf and was quite friendly :). I don't remember the details but the dream was unusual - to me at least. This morning I felt as if I was too detached and it was somewhat of an effort to concentrate but easy to just go along. I therefore speculate that I either had too much 5-HTP or it was released at the wrong time.

I was trying to place my reaction in the list above and won't exactly say that it made more alert. It definitely made me relaxed - but just in a state that made it hard to sleep so maybe that is what is meant by alert? I don't know whether I am chemically sensitive and I don't know if I have a sluggish liver. I have been doing coffee enemas twice a week for about a month and a half ago which I think would tend to make the liver less sluggish but I don't know this so it's just a guess.

Currently, I am unsure as how to proceed and am hoping that some of you could give me some advice. I am considering either taking the 5-HTP with dinner (if the liver is the problem) or taking it at bedtime, but this time together with Melatonin to ensure that I do manage to reach a deep sleep state. Any suggestions are appreciated with thanks :).

 

[Gaby]

Hi Thor,

Start with 50 mg at lunch and dinner and increase your dose every 3 days by 50mg until you reach 300mg of 5-HTP per day. If you are unable to have a restorative sleep after two weeks, then you can also consider increasing the dose or supplementing yourself with melatonin at night.

Potential side effects of 5-HTP include nausea, diarrhea, and sleepiness. Also, in very rare cases, there might be insomnia and headaches, which usually happen when 5-HTP is taken on an empty stomach and when a person has “sluggish” liver issues. The good news is that when you take 5-HTP with meals and gradually increase the dose, these side effects should be eliminated.

 

[Thor]

Psyche,

Thanks a lot - I will take follow your advice and keep you posted on the development :)

I am really thankful for the sharing of knowledge on the forum - what a help!

 

[Thor]

Hi Thor,

Start with 50 mg at lunch and dinner and increase your dose every 3 days by 50mg until you reach 300mg of 5-HTP per day. If you are unable to have a restorative sleep after two weeks, then you can also consider increasing the dose or supplementing yourself with melatonin at night.

Potential side effects of 5-HTP include nausea, diarrhea, and sleepiness. Also, in very rare cases, there might be insomnia and headaches, which usually happen when 5-HTP is taken on an empty stomach and when a person has “sluggish” liver issues. The good news is that when you take 5-HTP with meals and gradually increase the dose, these side effects should be eliminated.

Hi Psyche,

An update and a couple of questions (it seems like new ones pop up all the time :)). I do coffee enemas regularly and wonder whether there is a timing issue of required intervals between the intake of supplements and doing the enemas? I haven't been able to find any mention of this on the forum or Google but I'd rather be safe than sorry :).

I am currently taking 100 mg at lunch and again at dinner as you suggested. So far I haven't had a full night's sleep so tomorrow I will increase to 150 mg x 2. However, I have noticed that my mind slows down. I don't know if this is what some people refer to as brain fog, but it is as if my mind is not as keen as it normally is - the thought process seems to be slower. Is this a normal reaction and does it last?

On the positive side, I find myself more relaxed and my program that wants to fix whatever seems confrontational in any interpersonal situation is relaxed a bit. These things are definitely good. I am a very mental person and not very good at staying in my feelings - I'd rather intellectualize them and thus distance myself from them, so maybe it is not so bad to have the thoughts slowed down.

As always, thanks for your help :D

 

[Laura]

Might want to avoid rice pudding before bed: gluten, lectins and sugar. All big no-nos. In fact, it's not likely that you'll have much success with supplementation if you are not dealing with diet also.

 

[Thor]

Might want to avoid rice pudding before bed: gluten, lectins and sugar. All big no-nos. In fact, it's not likely that you'll have much success with supplementation if you are not dealing with diet also.

Point well taken :)

I am starting the elimination diet on Monday and today I have made my first ultra broth.

 

[Gaby]

I am starting the elimination diet on Monday and today I have made my first ultra broth.

You'll feel much better. You can do the coffee enemas only when you feel it is necessary. Supplementation can be taken as usual. You can keep taking enough veggies and mg and vitamin C to keep the bowels regular.

 

[brainwave]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

 

[Laura]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

Yes, everybody is different and you'll have to experiment a bit. It could take a month or so to find what really gets your body clock balanced. But it is SO worth it. You'll be amazed at how much better you feel when you have good sleep at the right time to be in synch with the earth's rhythm.

 

[Thor]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

Yes, everybody is different and you'll have to experiment a bit. It could take a month or so to find what really gets your body clock balanced. But it is SO worth it. You'll be amazed at how much better you feel when you have good sleep at the right time to be in synch with the earth's rhythm.

Thanks, once again, for the inputs. I can't wait to find the right balance. I have both melatonin and GABA waiting to be introduced if necessary. And for more or less the first time in my life, I am doing things little by little, which is a great exercise in restraint and will hopefully enable me to be more precise in the adjustment process.

Have you experienced the slow-down of thinking that I described above and if so, did it abate after a while?

 

[Jacques]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

Same thing for me. GABA and magnesium made quite a difference in my sleeping.

 

[Thor]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

Same thing for me. GABA and magnesium made quite a difference in my sleeping.

Thanks for the info :)

Do you take the magnesium before bedtime in addition to another dose of magnesium during the day?

 

[Jacques]

Hi,

I just want to add that for some people, like me 5-htp doesn't do much and melatonin helped me fall asleep but I didn't sleep though the the night. I would wake up with nightmares and felt terrible if I didn't have 8 hours sleep (an impossibility with my schedule). GABA and magnesium seemed to be what I needed before bed along with the pipe breathing and the meditation. It's a huge difference when I don't do that so I make sure to get that in every night.
Try the 5-htp the way psyche and Laura suggested-without eating rice pudding. If your sleep pattern doesn't change much after two weeks, you can try the GABA.

Same thing for me. GABA and magnesium made quite a difference in my sleeping.

Thanks for the info :)

Do you take the magnesium before bedtime in addition to another dose of magnesium during the day?

Yes i take the magnesium before bedtime and during the day, i take magnesium oil.

 

[TOTEM36]

Hi everyone,

I was looking for some suggestions / opinions on 5-htp.

Since 2002 I have been on a low dosage of anti-depressant called Mirtazipine. This never fails to give me a great sleep, and reduce my mania, but also makes me a bit numb during the day. 3 months ago when eliminating dairy and sugar, i decided to ween myself off this antidepressant (after reading anarts experiences in the 5-htp and antidepressants thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,14389.msg194613.html#msg194613 ) and i am barely sleeping, anxiety and mania have returned, and i am not myself (i suppose this is common after 9.5 years of antidepressant)

Anyway, my plan was to not worry about the anxiety issue, just to tough that out, but to focus instead on getting 8 hours solid sleep again.
so, for ths i was going to take 50mg of 5-HTP once every night so i can sleep again.

Reading this thread i have noticed that everyone takes much higher dosages of 5-HTP and usually with other combinations.

So, I know everyone is unique, but generally speaking would 50mg per night of 5-HTP be considered too small a dosage for a successful a long-term solution for sleeping?

and have you found it is true that it wears off?

Thanks.

 

[Gaby]

Hi hallowed,

Did you eliminated your anti-depressant completely already?

If you sleep fine with 50mg of 5HTP, you might not need more. But know that usually one needs 300mg of 5 HTP in order to fill up the tank so to speak. You can take enough 5HTP in order to have a good night sleep. If you only need 50mg, then that's it. You can have the rest (250mg in this case) with meals in order to increase your levels more physiologically over 2 weeks. You'll need magnesium to help out this process.

Know that doing a diet will eventually obviate the need of 5 HTP and stabilize your mood. A lot of people come off of all these supplements when they do the diet. Check out this tread for more info:

Life Without Bread
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.0.html

The ketogenic diet is being used to treat depression and stabilize moods among many other things.