can a psychopath trick another psychopath into thinking he is 'normal'?

[Mountain Crown]

Hi Dave, welcome to the forum.

One of the most important things to study for an accurate understanding of how things work on the BBM is the study of psychopaths and how they operate on a macro-social level. You are in the best place for such a study and will find the truth about psychopathy is such that any lack of clarity holds the potential for disaster.

 

[Niall]

One psychopath interviewed by Hare's team said quite frankly: "The first thing I do is I size you up. I look for an angle, an edge, figure out what you need and give it to you. Then it's pay-back time, with interest. I tighten the screws." Another psychopath admitted that he never targeted attractive women - he was only interested in those who were insecure and lonely. He claimed he could smell a needy person "the way a pig smells truffles."

There may be other threads where the idea was raised of psychopaths' sense of smell being able to select victims, but I'll post this here for now. It's footage of an interview Jeff Goldblum gave on an American TV chat show that raised the hairs on the back of my neck, not least because he reminded me so much of my ex-boss!

Take a look and see what you think:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3paeJS2w0M&feature=related

 

[Chang]

I won't pretend to understand those with ASPD, but after living next door to two of them, I do have an opinion. First of all, I would have to say it depends on their education. The two next door to me (The Sociopath Next Door is already taken, right?) are merely HS grads at best, but their ability to con the local police (including State Troopers) is amazing. Its amazing that the police are that freaking stupid. Or, another way, is amazing that they are that poorly trained.
But getting back to the question, from observing the monsters next door, I truly think that THEY think they are normal! This revelation came to me a little over a year ago, when, for the second time, the male psycho came onto my property, and after knocking me down, he pinned me to the ground (He's 37, 6'-2" and about 250 lbs, while I'm twenty years older, 5'10" and about 150 soaking wet). He is probably the strongest person I know. Anyway, he had me nailed down, was hitting the back of my head as hard as he could, and it was slow and methodical, as though he had all day. Meanwhile, the slightly more feminine of the two, was kicking me from the side, she's about 6'-1", and as it turned out, she caused more pain than he did. I was screaming like a stuck pig (no offense to pigs) in hopes that my wife would hear me from inside the house. He hit me ten times. Finally my wife comes out and screams at them, he grabs the camcorder from my hand, and they both leave, almost in a casual manner. As they passed by my wife, the girl (Sam) says to my wife,
"Fuck you Jackie, your just as fucked up as he is". Now this didn't sink into until a couple of weeks later, at the very least. But to focus in on this, I need to tell you about my wife. She worked for the FBI for four years with high security clearance (HSC) worked for the Dept Of Defense for two years w/HSC, returned to our home state due to her parents divorce, worked as an integral part of one of the leading business's in the States Capitol, then, after her brothers death, did an about-face, and went into nursing, she's been an RN for 7 or 8 years, and for the last two, she's worked at the State Psychiatric Hospital. My resume is much less impressive, but suffice it to say I'm not a criminal, never been in trouble, etc, etc. So here we have this criminally insane female, telling my wife, who is one of the nicest people I've ever known, that she is "fucked up". That one line really summed up the whole equation for me. BTW, it took the State Police a little over two months to find them innocent, so no charges were filed, even though THEY had spoken to him (Kevin) a few months earlier, and TOLD HIM TO NOT TRESPASS ON MY PROPERTY. In court, it took a judge about 30-40 minutes to see what was going on. My lawyer had blood dripping down his cheek, as he was biting his tongue to keep from laughing.
I was given a Protection From Abuse Order, and Kevin was ordered to pay my lawyer fees.
This was my second Protection Order, and the cops (I really hate them now) STILL refuse to arrest him for trespassing, he stole my dog (Todo) he verbally assaulted me, he's murdered three of our cats, the list goes on and on, all while I have the Protection Order.
Sorry for that slight diversion, but I wanted you to hear the details. Sam has been convicted of Food Stamp Fraud (she's a welfare whore) yet she still gets Food Stamps, and went unpunished. She was fired from her job as a clerk at a local Quick Stop, she was caught stealing, and then she lied about that. They've broken into houses, some of the houses were their friends (with friends like that, who needs enema's?). So what was the question? Oh yeah, I have to agree with my first response, it probably depends on their education, BUT, these two act like a totally professional pair of criminals, as they left, she told him to grab my camera (it was full of evidence that would have incriminated them both) she grabbed some other stuff, and as I said, they walked off our property onto theirs, as though nothing had happened. To quote Jerry Seinfeld, "It was a scene, man"!

 

[cubbex]

As Mustanf from Full metal Alchemist say:

When you hurt others you believe you are a monster, but is is not until you see a real monster that you understand that you are just a simple human.

I have seen lot of what makes a psychopath. And really it sounds crepy.

Have any of you meet a psycho????? a real one???

My mother when she was kid, did... when she told me the story or nightmare I just cried because of what I was hearing.

 

[highmystica]

In the book Violent Attachments, ...

Another extremely interesting study had to do with the way psychopaths move their hands when they speak. Hand movement can tell researchers a lot about what are called "thought units." The studies indicate that psychopaths' thoughts and ideas are organized into small mental packages. This is handy for lying, but makes dealing with an overall, coherent, integrated complex of deep thoughts virtually impossible.

This I found interesting when I first read it and it also prompted a recall of a certain hand movement the same above mentioned psychopath made when speaking. Long after the fact, I realized it was a dead giveaway that whatever he was saying at the time was a lie. That hand movement was a flutter movement and, generally, he would trail off or move on to another subject. This recollection made me wish I had a videotape of every conversation I ever had with the guy.

I've recently had the same realization ... it certainly makes watching the news more interesting.
As far as the smell thing and Jeff Goldblum, I doubt that alone is enough to peg him as a psychopath. It wouldn't surprise though to find out that he is a narcissist by virtue of being an actor. Granted, narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths are all excellent role-players, the latter two types have a greater desire for manipulation. Best case scenario: Jeff Goldblum isn't any of the above, but rather a guy with an acute sense of smell.

Back to the original question, you have to ask what is "normal" (rhetorically). I doubt an essential sociopath or a psychopath can ever mistake one another for what they are. I do believe that they think of themselves as "normal" while the rest of us suffer from some sort of weird mass-hypnosis. As far as the other kinds of psychopaths (caused by injury or drug abuse) I'm not sure. They are certainly a different breed.

Regardless, sociopaths do indeed seem linked. Their sense of smell may indeed be how they mark us as prey, but they know each other intuitively almost on sight it seems. Recent experiences with a family made up of several sociopaths has confirmed this, at least to me, though sadly mostly in retrospect. I don't think their technique for identification is necessarily available to us. That's not to say we don't have our own tools that are effective. I noticed certain cues in the speech of one several years ago that really opened my eyes. She had a funny way of speaking, it wasn't as simple as simple leaving out some of the words, rather she also used a lot of double talk, in which words could be interpreted multiple ways (just like a politician), consider how the phrase "divide and conquer" can be interpreted as meaning either to divide the forces of your opponent, or conversely to divide your own forces to attack from different angles, and the last time I heard a politician say that, they seem to have meant both at the same time. Back to what I was saying, latter after the fact I realized she derived some strange "satisfaction" from mocking me to my face (The ones I have dealt with had a strange affinity for the word satisfaction). There are other weird things about their speech patterns. I'm sure that has been brought up on this forum someplace else several times during my absence. The easiest way to catch them is their lack of emotional response. They can and do imitate emotions exceptionally well, indeed they all could be award winning actors and actresses, but they have no real length or depth to their imitations. If something tragic happens to you or your family and you mention it to them they will know to be sympathetic at that point, but they will forget in about ten minutes, they may get annoyed with you if you are still sad by the next day end eventually they may say something like "I don't know why that is still bothering you". As far as their own emotional responses go they are bizarre. They can mimic the range of human emotion but the context can be off. They will feign extreme anger at some imagined insult that somebody did to them (which generally after the fact you'll learn that they themselves were the cause) and rage out of control or sob hysterically, and then they'll use that as an excuse to do bizarre manipulations. Another thing since we don't carry around electrodes to monitor emotional response watch how they react to Movies and T.V. Ever notice how watching T.V. is generally a singular experience? Ever watch somebody watching T.V.? I hadn't bothered to until fairly recently, and had I not been so perplexed and annoyed I probably wouldn't have at the time. So I had tears streaming down my face, yeah brilliant I know, watch a tear-jerker when I'm already emotional. This other person had no emotion on their face - none. A hundred million pieces fell into place. That moment spared me much more pain. There's the other cliche things like promising to change, blaming the victim, saying that we (non-sociopaths) are imagining things, etc. Considering "change", I have never heard a normal person promise to change (I'm sure that have been some), rather normal people just change, and they do so sort of continuously. Sociopaths seem to change much more slowly - if at all. There is one last thing I've noticed. They wear different masks for different people. I know we all adjust behavior for different social situations and contexts, but with them, it doesn't seem based on the actual social context. Their rules are different. But, by the time you mark that difference you've been around one entirely too long. Anybody on this forum should be aware of self-observation, but don't forget to try and use a critical mind (to the best of your ability) when observing those around you. For I tell you truthfully, if my most recent misadventure with a sociopath had been anything like the first I would be fit for a straight jacket. I know it is all good training, but I want to study other things too.

 

[cubbex]

It is necessarily to be an Organic Portal to become a psychopath????

Because I was thinking that a soulde being without their higher centers is like some OP, maybe if they live what sometimes transforms some OP in psychopaths they even with a soul sould become a psycho or sociopath????

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It is necessarily to be an Organic Portal to become a psychopath????

As far as I know, one doesn't become a psychopath. One is born that way. But if you mean, are all psychopaths OPs, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

Because I was thinking that a soulde being without their higher centers is like some OP, maybe if they live what sometimes transforms some OP in psychopaths they even with a soul sould become a psycho or sociopath????

Well all 'souled' beings have higher centers, they just don't have functional connections with them. There's been a little discussion here on the idea of "souled psychopaths", perhaps along the lines of what you're thinking, but I don't know enough to really even speculate there.

 

[highmystica]

It is my understanding that all sociopaths are OP's, but being an OP doesn't mean you are a sociopath. One is a sub-group of the other.

As a random aside I suppose it is possible for a psychopath to make another think they are normal by way of mind control practices like what is portrayed in the "Manchurian Candidate" but that isn't the same as tricking them - but it is a scary thought.

 

[Laura]

Chang, that is a shocking story. And you're right: they do think THEY are normal. The sad thing is, in a world run by psychopaths, they can make it stick.

 

[cassandra]

Well, we all know the expression "it takes one to know one".
In their world might is right and the fittest survive, etc. For them, it's all about dominance, which they confuse with strength of character.
If they are intelligent, I think they can spot others like themselves quicker than we can.
For a while I knew a bunch of guys whose wives completely dominated them. (Sometimes I slightly envied these wives.) The men seemed to admire and respect, although also resent this domineering trait.
My husband simply won't be dominated (good for him). They envied him for his freedom, but disparaged me rather for being "weak".
I had all kinds of problems with this group as I am allergic to being dominated and told what to do. I am not a go-with-the-flow kind of person.
I recognised I had a problem here, and bought a book called "Nasty Women" by Jay Carter, Psy. D "How to STOP BEING HURT by them without stooping to THEIR level.
It really helped me. identify and articulate what was going on, and helped me retain my calm, which astonished these people. Ha!

 

[cassandra]

I forgot to add that even though I had no knowledge of psychopaths, STS, etc, at that time, I always wondered why, when I stopped hanging out with these people (they didn't respect or even seem to like me), they each, separately, would try their hardest to persuade me to come to their parties and other gatherings. HUH?
They were draining my energy of course!!

 

[Laura]

I forgot to add that even though I had no knowledge of psychopaths, STS, etc, at that time, I always wondered why, when I stopped hanging out with these people (they didn't respect or even seem to like me), they each, separately, would try their hardest to persuade me to come to their parties and other gatherings. HUH?
They were draining my energy of course!!

Yes, "Nasty Women" is a great little book along with the other variations that Carter has written. We recommend it highly!

 

[Iconoclast]

Another thing since we don't carry around electrodes to monitor emotional response watch how they react to Movies and T.V. Ever notice how watching T.V. is generally a singular experience? Ever watch somebody watching T.V.? I hadn't bothered to until fairly recently, and had I not been so perplexed and annoyed I probably wouldn't have at the time. So I had tears streaming down my face, yeah brilliant I know, watch a tear-jerker when I'm already emotional. This other person had no emotion on their face - none.

this is something i've been thinking about often. i imagine standing behind the screen in a movie theater and looking out at the crowd during a tearjerker. i'm sure you could spot some of them like that.

for someone in a new relationship, watching a really sad movie together might be a good screening process/test to find out more about the emotional depth of your new companion.

 

[cassandra]

Yet, I noticed years and years ago that sometimes people could be overly sentimental whilst watching films, "I always cry at weddings", and so on- I witnessed their tears could be as hard as nails, cold and without empathy in real life. Not really sure myself if this is an indication.
I visited America once, and watched TV one afternoon. I watched "Living Free", and cried when Elsa was released, then during the long break watched "Who Will Look After My Children?" about a women dying of cancer, who had to find new homes for her numerous children, and while there were breaks for those two films, there was yet another heartbreaker on another channel. What a wet afternoon. (I feel so embarrassed when others are with me!) In real life I am overly emotional , but rarely cry.

 

[Juba]

My guess, based on inference is that, no, a psychopath can't hide from another psychopath. That is just from reading a whole pile of cases both academic and journalistic investigations.

Now, if we could only figure out what it is that gives them away every time, we would know something.

Agree with Laura, more over, psychopats in myriads of varieties who like to gather in groups from bully gang to para military or/and military war criminals, seems to follow certain patterns; endangering, molesting and disturbing regular folks without necessary camouflage for their actions. Harder to find are solo psychopats, some of solo psychopaths are on such positions covered nicely by mass media, where we can and should see discrepancies in their actions, for example all kind of unscrupulous dictators, politicians, businessmen....,... "Defected" kind of psychopats for example: serial killers and rapists are exposed to the public eye only when caught by police forces, these are pretty hard to spot and could be noticed only when they make mistake.

Now coming back to the original question, can they recognise eachother, if answer is YES than we should explain why is that the truth: if we can (their food, their prey) recognise them, they for sure can see and recognise eachother. What is puzzling me is following: do they approve another psychopat presence and if that is only in specific situations, like on battlefield or when their life is directly endangered and presence of another psychopat could free them from accusations, prosecutions or unfavoured marketing or when another psychopath's presence strengthens their positions.