can a psychopath trick another psychopath into thinking he is 'normal'?

[Approaching Infinity]

It is necessarily to be an Organic Portal to become a psychopath????

As far as I know, one doesn't become a psychopath. One is born that way. But if you mean, are all psychopaths OPs, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

Because I was thinking that a soulde being without their higher centers is like some OP, maybe if they live what sometimes transforms some OP in psychopaths they even with a soul sould become a psycho or sociopath????

Well all 'souled' beings have higher centers, they just don't have functional connections with them. There's been a little discussion here on the idea of "souled psychopaths", perhaps along the lines of what you're thinking, but I don't know enough to really even speculate there.

Ok I was asking these because resently I was reading about a case of a murder,that was violent and more and kind of living her own world. She just got a baby and everything changes, and supposedly her husband said she is the most gentle person he had met. So I don't know it she is just acting, or if that event really has change that woman on those years.

It's important to remember that not only psychopaths murder people. Without more data, it's difficult to know if this woman was a psychopath who was acting "gentle" as a mask of sanity, or a genuinely gentle person who suffered a psychotic episode or some other pathological phenomenon to provoke her to murder.

 

[EmeraldHope]

There's been a little discussion here on the idea of "souled psychopaths", perhaps along the lines of what you're thinking, but I don't know enough to really even speculate there.

Your mentioning of "souled psychopaths" made me remember something I wanted to bring up on his topic ,and how I think that may be possible.

There are certain "dark" groups that I have researched over the years. In some of these groups, and I will try to use terms that will make sense here, their idea is to "become god". They believe that one must have access and use of ALL of the traits, as they are all valid, as they are all manifestations of god . They do not believe there is right or wrong, just that all that exists just IS, and each trait has a use. They try to develop both sides ( light and dark) to the same degree.
It seems that they are trying to mimic their perception of 7th density.

From what I can gather, that means assuming and taking unto oneself, ALL the names of god, both base and beautiful. For example, If I recall correctly, one of these people was discussing child sacrifice. He was saying that yes, someone wishing to develop the base name of murder of an innocent, would use that for an opportunity, and it would also give others in the group present an opportunity to develop deeper empathy. They do not believe it is wrong, because to them there is no right or wrong- just choice. And they do not believe that one has true choice, unless one has assumed and implemented all the traits themselves, and understand them. Only then can they be truly individuated - a god in their own right. They think to experience truly the deepest levels of empathy, for example, one must also be capable of the most heinous of acts.

From what I understand, though, they view what we term psychopaths with disdain as well, as they perceive them to have no true choice or will, being developed only on one side. However, these same people, to a normal human, would seem just as inhuman as a psychopath, because they do not mind using the base traits. I would say that they would be viewed as a psychopath, for sure.

So I personally think it is possible, that a souled being, could get caught up in something like that. But they would not be psychopaths in sense we use here most often. They would then be a souled being who has made a choice to STS, even though he may not really understand that implication. I guess that what that means is that they perhaps have fused a dark magnetic center.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

There's been a little discussion here on the idea of "souled psychopaths", perhaps along the lines of what you're thinking, but I don't know enough to really even speculate there.

Your mentioning of "souled psychopaths" made me remember something I wanted to bring up on his topic ,and how I think that may be possible.

There are certain "dark" groups that I have researched over the years. In some of these groups, and I will try to use terms that will make sense here, their idea is to "become god". They believe that one must have access and use of ALL of the traits, as they are all valid, as they are all manifestations of god . They do not believe there is right or wrong, just that all that exists just IS, and each trait has a use. They try to develop both sides ( light and dark) to the same degree.
It seems that they are trying to mimic their perception of 7th density.

From what I can gather, that means assuming and taking unto oneself, ALL the names of god, both base and beautiful. For example, If I recall correctly, one of these people was discussing child sacrifice. He was saying that yes, someone wishing to develop the base name of murder of an innocent, would use that for an opportunity, and it would also give others in the group present an opportunity to develop deeper empathy. They do not believe it is wrong, because to them there is no right or wrong- just choice. And they do not believe that one has true choice, unless one has assumed and implemented all the traits themselves, and understand them. Only then can they be truly individuated - a god in their own right. They think to experience truly the deepest levels of empathy, for example, one must also be capable of the most heinous of acts.

From what I understand, though, they view what we term psychopaths with disdain as well, as they perceive them to have no true choice or will, being developed only on one side. However, these same people, to a normal human, would seem just as inhuman as a psychopath, because they do not mind using the base traits. I would say that they would be viewed as a psychopath, for sure.

So I personally think it is possible, that a souled being, could get caught up in something like that. But they would not be psychopaths in sense we use here most often. They would then be a souled being who has made a choice to STS, even though he may not really understand that implication. I guess that what that means is that they perhaps have fused a dark magnetic center.

That description reminds me of what Ra said on the subject. Basically, by focusing on ALL the names, these people do not polarize one way or the other to the degree necessary for "graduation". They may be more STS than normal, because they view things like child murder as OK, but they still have STO buffers. According to Ra, if they want to graduate on the STS path, they have to eliminate ALL STO tendencies, i.e., to become as psychopaths, so their disdain for them is somewhat ironic. They're basically on a one-way track to nowhere. And according to Ra, it is the psychopaths like Goring and Himmler (i.e., add all the ruthlessness of a psychopath like Bundy to the power and influence over a large food supply or populace) that gather the necessary charge to bump themselves up a notch on the STS evolutionary scheme.

 

[anart]

There are certain "dark" groups that I have researched over the years. In some of these groups, and I will try to use terms that will make sense here, their idea is to "become god". They believe that one must have access and use of ALL of the traits, as they are all valid, as they are all manifestations of god . They do not believe there is right or wrong, just that all that exists just IS, and each trait has a use. They try to develop both sides ( light and dark) to the same degree.
It seems that they are trying to mimic their perception of 7th density.

From what I can gather, that means assuming and taking unto oneself, ALL the names of god, both base and beautiful. For example, If I recall correctly, one of these people was discussing child sacrifice. He was saying that yes, someone wishing to develop the base name of murder of an innocent, would use that for an opportunity, and it would also give others in the group present an opportunity to develop deeper empathy. They do not believe it is wrong, because to them there is no right or wrong- just choice. And they do not believe that one has true choice, unless one has assumed and implemented all the traits themselves, and understand them. Only then can they be truly individuated - a god in their own right. They think to experience truly the deepest levels of empathy, for example, one must also be capable of the most heinous of acts.

Sounds like typical, run of the mill, satanists - though they often call themselves something else or don't consider themselves such. Working very hard for ultimate STS, yet not even really understanding the concept.

 

[Laura]

There are certain "dark" groups that I have researched over the years. In some of these groups, and I will try to use terms that will make sense here, their idea is to "become god". They believe that one must have access and use of ALL of the traits, as they are all valid, as they are all manifestations of god . They do not believe there is right or wrong, just that all that exists just IS, and each trait has a use. They try to develop both sides ( light and dark) to the same degree.
It seems that they are trying to mimic their perception of 7th density. <snip>

So I personally think it is possible, that a souled being, could get caught up in something like that. But they would not be psychopaths in sense we use here most often. They would then be a souled being who has made a choice to STS, even though he may not really understand that implication. I guess that what that means is that they perhaps have fused a dark magnetic center.

Yes, I've researched them for many years myself trying to understand evil. It can become a preoccupation to a person who has an internal STO nature and has been inculcated with the religious nonsense of our civilization. I would even say that the individuals you describe have the problem of trying to understand how a "good god" could create a world in which evil exists, and what you have described are their answers to such questions and their solution as to how to get out of it. But, of course, they seem to begin with the internal STS nature, so the consciousness energy directors are different.

Because of this last factor, they miss entirely the point that it is not the act itself that is important, it is the impetus. If you are acting in what you perceive to be an STO manner from an STS motivation - i.e. to become like god - then you have shot yourself in the foot at the start.

I'm not sure that I would say that such an individual has even fused a dark magnetic center. They sound more like the Chimera. Or, as Gurdjieff described them "an immortal thing." Here's where he describes it:

On one occasion, at one of these meetings, someone asked about the possibility of reincarnation, and whether it was possible to believe in cases of communication with the dead.

"Many things are possible," said G. "But it is necessary to understand that man's being, both in life and after death, if it does exist after death, may be very different in quality. The 'man-machine' with whom everything depends upon external influences, with whom everything happens, who is now one, the next moment another, and the next moment a third, has no future of any kind; he is buried and that is all. Dust returns to dust. This applies to him. In order to be able to speak of any kind of future life there must be a certain crystallization, a certain fusion of man's inner qualities, a certain independence of external influences. If there is anything in a man able to resist external influences, then this very thing itself may also be able to resist the death of the physical body. But think for yourselves what there is to withstand physical death in a man who faints or forgets everything when he cuts his finger? If there is anything in a man, it may survive; if there is nothing, then there is nothing to survive. But even if something survives, its future can be very varied. In certain cases of fuller crystallization what people call 'reincarnation' may be possible after death, and, in other cases, what people call 'existence on the other side.' In both cases it is the continuation of life in the 'astral body,' or with the help of the 'astral body.' You know what the expression 'astral body' means. But the systems with which you are acquainted and which use this expression state that all men have an 'astral body.' This is quite wrong. What may be called the 'astral body' is obtained by means of fusion, that is, by means of terribly hard inner work and struggle. Man is not born with it. And only very few men acquire an 'astral body.' If it is formed it may continue to live after the death of the physical body, and it may be born again in another physical body. This is 'reincarnation.' If it is not re-born, then, in the course of time, it also dies; it is not immortal but it can live long after the death of the physical body.

"Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction,' by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man. If a man lives without inner struggle, if everything happens in him without opposition, if he goes wherever he is drawn or wherever the wind blows, he will remain such as he is. But if a struggle begins in him, and particularly if there is a definite line in this struggle, then, gradually, permanent traits begin to form themselves, he begins to 'crystallize.' But crystallization is possible on a right foundation and it is possible on a wrong foundation. 'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' can easily take place on a wrong foundation. For instance, a fanatical belief in some or other idea, or the 'fear of sin,' can evoke a terribly intense struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' and a man may crystallize on these foundations. But this would be a wrong, incomplete crystallization. Such a man will not possess the possibility of further development. In order to make further development possible he must be melted down again, and this can be accomplished only through terrible suffering.

"Crystallization is possible on any foundation. Take for example a brigand, a really good, genuine brigand. I knew such brigands in the Caucasus. He will stand with a rifle behind a stone by the roadside for eight hours without stirring. Could you do this? All the time, mind you, a struggle is going on in him. He is thirsty and hot, and flies are biting him; but he stands still. Another is a monk; he is afraid of the devil; all night long he beats his head on the floor and prays. Thus crystallization is achieved. In such ways people can generate in themselves an enormous inner strength; they can endure torture; they can get what they want. This means that there is now in them something solid, something permanent. Such people can become immortal. But what is the good of it? A man of this kind becomes an 'immortal thing,' although a certain amount of consciousness is sometimes preserved in him. But even this, it must be remembered, occurs very rarely."

 

[Joe]

@ perceval no they don't think of themselves as psychopaths, per-se, but there is plenty of scientific evidence supporting that they do recognize each other even from early childhood. I think it was in Cleckley that I first came across that. If it wasn't in Cleckley it was in one of the recommended books suggested on this site. As it is I've noticed a lot of new material has been added while on my vacation from the forum. I have only read the two most recent sessions, so I'm about two and a half years out of sync.

What 'scientific' evidence is that? I ask because the only way I can think of that scientists could have determined this would be as a result of the claims of diagnosed psychopaths themselves or maybe by observing them? One of the main things we understand about psychopaths is the ease with which they lie. So how can we believe anything such a person would say? I get the impression that they are rather unaware of a LOT about their own inner world and have little capacity for introspection. What they do have in abundance is a predatory nature with all of the heightened and, from a normal person's POV, almost paranormal sensory system. What I am saying is, a normal child or adult 'recognises' another person as having similar (or in some way compatible) interests, demeanor etc. and perhaps there is even a non-physical 'resonance' of some sort, but I don't think we can say that the person is conscious of all of this. I would suggest that while the psychopath's criteria for recognising a kindred spirit is very different from that of a normal person, their awareness of the process is equally unconscious. The reason I suggest this is because I haven't seen any reliable evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

[highmystica]

@ perceval Well, it wasn't in Cleckley. I have come across mentions of it more than once. But being that some of my books are in storage, and that I simply don't have time to read through them all anyway, I'm sure you'll forgive my inability to answer completely. You can however find an article written by Laura here:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6459.0
You'll have to scroll down to the post made by Psalehesost. In the article Laura cites PP for that line ...

The same quote is used in this article at sott:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/191213-Word-gets-around-Twilight-and-the-trick-of-the-psychopaths:%20All

However I was thinking of another quote, It's been awhile since I read PP and since my copy was given to me free as a gift, I gave it away free as a gift with instruction that that person do the same ... so that copy is being a world traveler as we speak.

 

[cubbex]

It's important to remember that not only psychopaths murder people. Without more data, it's difficult to know if this woman was a psychopath who was acting "gentle" as a mask of sanity, or a genuinely gentle person who suffered a psychotic episode or some other pathological phenomenon to provoke her to murder.

Here it is if you want to read it:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/bell/index_1.html

She was some kind of mini-adult. She was a child without guidance and with a poor backstage,prostitute mother that prostitute her. When I got to read she had a baby I thought that she would kill the baby, but she is older now, don't know her age but she es older and didn't kill the baby.

I have read Aileen Wuornos and Mary's case, knowing they got to be killers in one moment of their lives. And I kind of identify myself with them, not on everything but in some cases. You got to a moment when you kind of loose your compassion, your tears. And then you are cold and just to be joking of everything, laughting at older people angriness because of your attitude, because you become the Joker. Thanks god I have found cassiopeans and this place and more, if not, sure I probably would ended like one of them.

In my experience living in ignorance without a little of knowledge and being hurt, you may end to be very bad.

 

[cassandra]

Yes, Cubbex, thank goodness.
Last night I could hardly sleep thinking how hard this all is, and how isolated I feel knowing things that seem to pass others by. But I calmed down, thought again, and remembered to be grateful.
Thank goodness some of us are equipped with a few basic tools, like a heart, some dim instincts, and a little intelligence, that can help us navigate us through
these rocky waters.
Something good is out there too! Thank you Cs!!! We are not alone.

 

[freed1305]

coming back to the question...... yes he/she can.....

These psychopaths, which I call unrevealed Psychapths or American Psychos based on the book/film

Normal psychopaths may can recognize each other. These are genetical psychos, sometime weird sometimes very smart, but
not too dangerous.

But most dangerous psychopath is that one who can hide himself from others, that even a normal gen psycho can not
recognize this kind of unrevealed psychs.
On one hand this american psychos are so smart, intelligent, friendly and charming on the other he/she
is the purified evil, which a normal thinking human and even a normal psycho can't imagine. Such evil that
the word " evil " is becoming an absolutely new worthness.

This American psycho is absoluty camouflaged within the society. You will only recognize him/her when he/she is
ripping of his/her mask and then it is the last thing you'll see.

There are quite a lot of good books, but most of them are in German, so i have to investigate if they are
available in English too.

 

[Cosmos]

coming back to the question...... yes he/she can.....

These psychopaths, which I call unrevealed Psychapths or American Psychos based on the book/film

Normal psychopaths may can recognize each other. These are genetical psychos, sometime weird sometimes very smart, but
not too dangerous.

But most dangerous psychopath is that one who can hide himself from others, that even a normal gen psycho can not
recognize this kind of unrevealed psychs.
On one hand this american psychos are so smart, intelligent, friendly and charming on the other he/she
is the purified evil, which a normal thinking human and even a normal psycho can't imagine. Such evil that
the word " evil " is becoming an absolutely new worthness.

This American psycho is absoluty camouflaged within the society. You will only recognize him/her when he/she is
ripping of his/her mask and then it is the last thing you'll see.

There are quite a lot of good books, but most of them are in German, so i have to investigate if they are
available in English too.

pure assumptions from your side ? or do you have any data that backs this up ?

 

[chachazoom]

I think some psychopaths such as OP's of higher intelligence might experience a vague, barely perceptable feeling of difference on occassion but it wouldn\t go beyond this. They would never be able to understand. There would be no way to explain. They are all that really exists. No empathy no way to comprehend. IMO the pathological types never get a whiff of difference....except in the form of I am superior, smarter, entitled. They see others as things. And these things are divided into 2 categories. Which can serve my desired results and which can't. The psychopath thinks they're normal and that those strange bags of flesh with eyes aren't . But he'll play their game to get what he wants. I think a psychopath would just see another psychopath as an unmanipulatable fleshbag.

 

[cubbex]

coming back to the question...... yes he/she can.....

These psychopaths, which I call unrevealed Psychapths or American Psychos based on the book/film

Normal psychopaths may can recognize each other. These are genetical psychos, sometime weird sometimes very smart, but
not too dangerous.

But most dangerous psychopath is that one who can hide himself from others, that even a normal gen psycho can not
recognize this kind of unrevealed psychs.
On one hand this american psychos are so smart, intelligent, friendly and charming on the other he/she
is the purified evil, which a normal thinking human and even a normal psycho can't imagine. Such evil that
the word " evil " is becoming an absolutely new worthness.

This American psycho is absoluty camouflaged within the society. You will only recognize him/her when he/she is
ripping of his/her mask and then it is the last thing you'll see.

There are quite a lot of good books, but most of them are in German, so i have to investigate if they are
available in English too.

Ohh you look pretty confident, in what you have based your opinions?? documental or book, which part of it?

And even if they don't recognize each other, because the probably ignorance about the concept of psychopaths from them, they may work together, what about those Illiminati, kukusklan, Hitler the Nazis and his fellas? Maybe they didn't know that they were psychopaths, but indeed their aim were the same, the way they reach it, how they know that their true face wasn't accepted from most of the people but it was by them, because for them was normal to show their claws and fangs.

I mean is normal for them to be in one moment of their lives working with other psychopaths.

 

[go2]

The architect of the Holocaust was the Nazi psychopath Adolf Eichmann. Adolf Eichmann leaves a telling statement concerning his relationship with the Hungarian Zionist Jew, Dr. Rudolf Kasztner. Kasztner was the Zionist who negotiated the selection and transit of 1685 Hungarian Jews to Switzerland in 1944 while the remaining hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were deported to the death camps. I posted Eichmann's statement in a 1960 Life Magazine interview as evidence that it is likely psychopaths do recognize each other and find their psychopathy a deeper bond than empathy for their normal ethnic fellows. The article from which this tidbit is excerpted is here. Perhaps, the psychopath Rudolf Kasztner was selecting psychopath genetics to populate Israel. Most of the Jews on the last train from Budapest, moved to Palestine where Israeli Jews are perpetrating their own Holocaust on the Palestinian people.

"This Dr Kasztner was a young man about my age, an ice-cold lawyer and a fanatical Zionist. . . We negotiated entirely as equals. People forget that. We were political opponents trying to arrive at a settlement and we trusted each other perfectly. With his great polish and reserve, he would have made an ideal Gestapo officer himself. As a matter of fact, there was a strong similarity between attitudes in the SS and the viewpoint of these immensely idealistic Zionist leaders, who were fighting what might be their last battle. As I told Kasztner: 'We too are idealists, and we too had to sacrifice our own blood before we came to power.' I believe that Kasztner would have sacrificed a thousand or a hundred thousand. . . to achieve his goal."

Chilling!!!

 

[cubbex]

When I was 16 and 17 I was some magnet to some kind of people because I was in pain, so I was cold and a sarcastic guy, so I made friends, two indimate friends that were with me and I was able to talk with them about some topics, but they were like a false being, one was obsesed with pornography, he was always at the end of our friendship talking about the homosexual guys from his town, about the erotic and very very gross messages from one of his girlfriends, he tend to have a lover here a lover there, other from here, so he was obsessed with porn, and I have to admitt, as a young from where I live, you see porn at least once, but you get over it, but he didn't I mean he talked about pornography like he was talking about phylosophy or politics. So I ended my frienship because he looked like a free mind guy able to talk about things out of the normal way of thinking but maybe because he was not a usual being. The second one always talked with me things like sex wih her girlfriends and his adventures when he was alcoholic fighting and breaking bones. And I have found why they was always looking for me:

First, they want cold beings that don't offend themselves with the way the talk to you, how they refer to you, and how they act towards others.

Second, people that let them be how they are, if they are some perverts they have friends that are equaly perverts as them, or that let them be the perverts and porks they are. I always have tolerance for others, but in these cases this was not helpful.

And three, to not be their aim, prey or victim, and that you enter into one of their "good stereotypes" so they accept you, they looked at me as some lone wolf like them because they wasn't accept by the society or others so wanted to be alone or with other folks like them, I didn't want to be alone, I was simply rejected because my wrong behavior. But they enjoyed their supposedly lone wolf character.

So I'v cut those frienships because they were draining and I don't know how they didn't felt guilt or a little repulsion for their thoughts. LOL, like Carl Jung with Freud.