can a psychopath trick another psychopath into thinking he is 'normal'?

[highmystica]

@ Iconoclast. Yeah, all my future girlfriends are going to have a trial by water so to speak. I don't think that test would work early in a relationship though. I'd wait about a month in. They do seem to have cues for their random manipulations, a female sociopath will feign sorrow to seem vulnerable. Likewise a woman using this test to early in a relationship might have the exact opposite effect, she might end up pegging a non-sociopath as a sociopath. Remember that our society is ponerized. I remember years ago when in college I went on a date with a girl that I had been very interested in. We went to the movie Titanic, that was the first and last date. She wanted a man somewhat more macho than me I guess. I suppose it didn't help that she was from Korea, and my behavior put me outside of gender roles as she understood them. But, there are plenty of men out there that have mastered stoicism better than me.

@ Cassandra Being overly sentimental isn't what I meant so much. You are more on about their tears having no empathy though - crocodile tears. Sociopaths have no empathy, but they can mimic emotions. To them our emotions make no sense at all, so this does cause them to imitate them imperfectly. They use emotions as a tool. There is always purpose behind their tears, a motivation, a purpose. But this is the other key, since they don't understand emotions they "use" them at inappropriate times. This you would think be harmful to their manipulations but ironically it is extra effective to those that don't understand sociopathy, for it causes confusion in their victims. Can sociopaths imitate being sentimental? Hmm, yes I guess they could. Oh lame, Cassandra, I just got a random image of some person sitting in a bookstore pretending to read a book with silent tears in their eyes. And I thought that was a certain behavior I could use to determine if somebody was NOT a sociopath. I guess I still can. A sociopath will use it as a trap - "look at me, I'm harmless, I cry over books." - the give up the facade after a time. Someone who is truly sentimental will be prone to that all the time. I guess thanks for the lesson Cassandra.

@ Ljubica Let me extrapolate on what I only mentioned in passing in regard to how they are linked and how they recognize each other and why it is not possible for normal people to recognize them using the same technique. Sociopaths and Psychopaths I think (IMO) differ from the average Organic Portal in that they are always in portal mode. I think that they identify each other by virtue of constantly being linked to 4D STS. In effect they are psychically linked. I wonder if general OP's when activated have a similar link. It would hint at disturbing possibilities for Characteropaths ...

 

[cassandra]

I agree, Iconoclast. ( And I've promised myself to start EE tonight. My being overly emotional just has to stop!)
Maybe they were croc tears, but I never had the feeling they were consciously acting, and this puzzled me, as they could often be hardheaded in their dealings with others. Maybe it was part of an unconscious camouflage programme??

 

[Mountain Crown]

I’ve often wondered how psychopaths recognize each other. It seems plausible that the recognition is from noticing that they aren’t non-psychopaths. If true, then the tell would be derived from a fundamentally distinguishing factor between the two groups.

We know that the inner world of psychopaths is without the disturbances and inhibitions of the inner world of non-psychopaths; that these inner conflicts require the need to dissociate.

[quote author=Windmill knight] I recently read [The Corruption of Reality] and it explains that what the human mind seeks the most is order. One way to achieve a sense of order out of a chaotic and frightening world is to dissociate, which can happen in many ways, some pretty obvious (like tv or music) and others not so obvious. The book argues that many forms of mental illness - if not all - are extreme forms of dissociation. . .

Mental illnesses aside, I think this theory goes a long way in explaining many negative thought loops and obsessions, which we could say are mild forms of mental illness. When we are stuck into a negative thought loop that is only making us suffer and will not leave us alone, we are dissociating! Because the mind would rather have this sense of 'order' than face the complex, unpredictable, fearsome, threatening and largely unknown reality. How it manages to dissociate is just instrumental to the purpose of escaping from reality into a predictable and well known fantasy (or thought loop). Re: Thought Loops [/quote]

For psychopaths, order doesn’t seem a need for inner security but rather what they impose on others, often chaotic and destructive.

Maybe there’s a presence in the eyes and facial muscles of people who need to dissociate that’s missing in psychopaths?

 

[Juba]

@ Ljubica Let me extrapolate on what I only mentioned in passing in regard to how they are linked and how they recognize each other and why it is not possible for normal people to recognize them using the same technique. Sociopaths and Psychopaths I think (IMO) differ from the average Organic Portal in that they are always in portal mode. I think that they identify each other by virtue of constantly being linked to 4D STS. In effect they are psychically linked. I wonder if general OP's when activated have a similar link. It would hint at disturbing possibilities for Characteropaths ...

Interesting question, related to the OPs and links to 4D STS, but what is bothering me is following question: Could regular person with the soul, tormented for decades, molded and molested for years, troubled soul, drained soul so to say, can such confused person mimic psychopathic behaviour? I noticed strange things during the war in ex Yugoslavia, something that seems like mass hypnoses when more than 95% of population were zombies thirsty for human flesh and blood. Of course there is possibility that 20 years ago there was 90% of psychopaths in region of ex Yugoslavia but that probability seems pretty small, even if we count OP in the mode similar to psychopathic, numbers are still to high. Possibility that even people with the soul could behave psychopathic, disturbing me pretty much. Is there some pretty vicious mass controlling mechanism or program (or programs), totally unknown to us? I dont know for sure, the time will show.

 

[highmystica]

Without a doubt almost anybody can be ponerized to the point where they show characteristics of a psychopath - that is in essence what characteropathy is. With the OP's I was referring to the 12% or so that Lobaczewski mentioned that changed their colors with little prompting. In a situation like what was going on in Yugoslavia, or Somalia, or any such similar situation is shear desperation and madness. Even under such situations not everybody will become a characteropath. I remember years ago I was watching the news about the violence there, there was this older gentleman who wandered into his house a came back out with his cello and started playing with no regard to the violence around him. I wonder what happened to him - that guy rocked. I hope he survived that madness.

 

[Beau]

Oh lame, Cassandra, I just got a random image of some person sitting in a bookstore pretending to read a book with silent tears in their eyes. And I thought that was a certain behavior I could use to determine if somebody was NOT a sociopath.

Crying? That was something that for many years I never did. Western males are indoctrinated from practically birth to suppress their emotions. We're not supposed to show weakness. So judging people based on that seems rather hasty IMO.

 

[Gimpy]

I’ve often wondered how psychopaths recognize each other. It seems plausible that the recognition is from noticing that they aren’t non-psychopaths. If true, then the tell would be derived from a fundamentally distinguishing factor between the two groups.

It might be something 'simple' like one predator being able to recognize another predator...it comes back to awareness of a kind, maybe situational awareness? Its hard to describe...but I've seen criminal predators scope out a crowd, spot a different group of criminals doing the same thing, and both groups grudgingly fade back into the same crowd.

How do lions recognize other lions? Smell, yeah, but human predators are more complex than that. It has to do with a certain kind of awareness, and I've seen it happen. Describing it tougher.

 

[Joe]

I don't think we know that they ever know they are psychopaths themselves. In fact, it was suggested in a session from 2010 that they don't. So we don't really know that they recognis each other in the sense of "oooh! he's a psychopath like me". I'd say it's more likely to be something like them simply 'getting on' together in their own deviant way, thinking alike, seeing the world in the same way sort of thing.

 

[highmystica]

@ Heimdallr There are different kinds of crying. I did touch on why it would be a dangerous scratch-test for a girl to you as an initial probe in regard to watching a tear jerker up above for the reasons you repeat regarding the western man. Personally though that doesn't make it flawed as a test, you are right it can't be relied upon alone. But let me ask you this. Can you easily imagine a sociopath crying from the highest most acute examples of emotion, like a sense of beauty in art or true joy? These are the most incomprehensible emotions to sociopaths, indeed they are often incomprehensible to most men because we are taught that it is not the way to behave. Indeed as my experience with the Korean girl I mentioned above such thinking isn't limited to the west. But just because it is common, don't think of it as the rule. Most of my male friends regardless of their sexual orientation are sensitive and sentimental.

Ever ask yourself why men are programmed the word over to ignore their emotions? I have always believed it to be dangerous to suppress ones emotions rather than integrate them. I think that roles and rules (not to mention the cues and pageantry that humans are supposed to behave under) are all modes of STS thinking. They ignore free will and personal expression. If you program a society such that the men are to ignore their emotions and be dominant, while programming the women to be dominated by their emotions (rather than masters of them) and to be subservient, you have created a hierarchal system that perpetuates inequity. This is pure STS. This is also why it is an effective test, for it determines who is less bound to STS modes. But as I said singularly this test is nothing. Constant observation is ALWAYS required.

@ perceval no they don't think of themselves as psychopaths, per-se, but there is plenty of scientific evidence supporting that they do recognize each other even from early childhood. I think it was in Cleckley that I first came across that. If it wasn't in Cleckley it was in one of the recommended books suggested on this site. As it is I've noticed a lot of new material has been added while on my vacation from the forum. I have only read the two most recent sessions, so I'm about two and a half years out of sync.

 

[Laura]

It could have something to do with smell. Maybe the same way undetectable smells can attract or repel anybody, maybe they just recognize their own kind by smell and just feel some kind of "we're hermanos" thing?

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It could have something to do with smell. Maybe the same way undetectable smells can attract or repel anybody, maybe they just recognize their own kind by smell and just feel some kind of "we're hermanos" thing?

If I'm remembering correctly, I think one of the sott editors who interviewed Lobaczewski mentioned to me that he explained that they recognized each other through certain gestures or movements. Can't remember specifically, but I think it was something about posture and perhaps hand gestures. That could've just been what he observed, though. It would be great if we could do some real studies on the phenomenon!

 

[anart]

But let me ask you this. Can you easily imagine a sociopath crying from the highest most acute examples of emotion, like a sense of beauty in art or true joy?

Sure - if they're playing a role. There is nothing they won't fake to get something they want. Nothing.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

It could have something to do with smell. Maybe the same way undetectable smells can attract or repel anybody, maybe they just recognize their own kind by smell and just feel some kind of "we're hermanos" thing?

If I'm remembering correctly, I think one of the sott editors who interviewed Lobaczewski mentioned to me that he explained that they recognized each other through certain gestures or movements. Can't remember specifically, but I think it was something about posture and perhaps hand gestures. That could've just been what he observed, though. It would be great if we could do some real studies on the phenomenon!

I knew a guy a few years back who had done substantial time in American state prisons. I met a few of these guys actually and had the opportunity to ask questions you don't usually ask someone. It is a long story how this came about, but anyway...

I had spoken with one guy about psychopaths, and he seemed to understand the notion. He started explaining to me "how we find each other." I was a little nervous, but it definitely was not the time to show it. He said there is a process of "working the room," that one circulates talking to as many people as possible and by asking questions and getting certain answers, one can identify "one's own kind." I don't know if this was the process found by someone who was extremely ponerized by a state prison environment or if he was a live one so to speak.

 

[cubbex]

It is necessarily to be an Organic Portal to become a psychopath????

As far as I know, one doesn't become a psychopath. One is born that way. But if you mean, are all psychopaths OPs, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

Because I was thinking that a soulde being without their higher centers is like some OP, maybe if they live what sometimes transforms some OP in psychopaths they even with a soul sould become a psycho or sociopath????

Well all 'souled' beings have higher centers, they just don't have functional connections with them. There's been a little discussion here on the idea of "souled psychopaths", perhaps along the lines of what you're thinking, but I don't know enough to really even speculate there.

Ok I was asking these because resently I was reading about a case of a murder,that was violent and more and kind of living her own world. She just got a baby and everything changes, and supposedly her husband said she is the most gentle person he had met. So I don't know it she is just acting, or if that event really has change that woman on those years.

 

[cubbex]

@ Ljubica Let me extrapolate on what I only mentioned in passing in regard to how they are linked and how they recognize each other and why it is not possible for normal people to recognize them using the same technique. Sociopaths and Psychopaths I think (IMO) differ from the average Organic Portal in that they are always in portal mode. I think that they identify each other by virtue of constantly being linked to 4D STS. In effect they are psychically linked. I wonder if general OP's when activated have a similar link. It would hint at disturbing possibilities for Characteropaths ...

Interesting question, related to the OPs and links to 4D STS, but what is bothering me is following question: Could regular person with the soul, tormented for decades, molded and molested for years, troubled soul, drained soul so to say, can such confused person mimic psychopathic behaviour? I noticed strange things during the war in ex Yugoslavia, something that seems like mass hypnoses when more than 95% of population were zombies thirsty for human flesh and blood. Of course there is possibility that 20 years ago there was 90% of psychopaths in region of ex Yugoslavia but that probability seems pretty small, even if we count OP in the mode similar to psychopathic, numbers are still to high. Possibility that even people with the soul could behave psychopathic, disturbing me pretty much. Is there some pretty vicious mass controlling mechanism or program (or programs), totally unknown to us? I dont know for sure, the time will show.

That is why I was asking. Becase when I was younger I remember to live in one or other way those conditions until I kinda killed my heart and I was just angry and cold, and without the capacity of have a bond with someone, and if someone in a little way bothered me I answer in a violent mode. Until you got to see yourself so you want to change so you are not a psycho because you understand that is not normal to be like that. But you have big scars, one of them of what I said, be so hard to bond with people, I don't want to hurt them and don't want to be hurt, but it's difficult to have some bond.