Canine Bone Cancer

Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

I has to put my boxer too sleep two years ago. She just showed up one day and was the most amazing friend anybody could ask for. I had her for five years when one day She just refused to follow me around the yard to do some work. Turns out she had bone cancer and her entire body was ate up with it. It still hurts me to think about how much pain she must have been in, yet she was always there to work with me.

I swear people, she would what know I needed before I did sometimes. Here's an example. I was removing a small rose bush that was not doing so well. I wanted to put it in a pot and bring it closer to the house so that I could better care for it.

I was getting up to get the pot and there she was, pot in mouth, waiting for me to get it. That's just one of many, many, many examples. I know people who are only a quarter as useful.

Companions this great don't come around every day so I do know your pain. :cry:
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Very sorry to hear about Jack. :hug2: :hug2: :hug2: :hug2:

Hubby and I faced this same issue not too long ago. Our 11 year old Chow-lab mix was 'off' and when we took him in, it wasn't one thing, but a number of problems that all added up to the decision to let him go. With Dexter, his body was plumb worn out.

We could have extended his life with drugs, all of them toxic and with side effects. He was right on the cusp of suffering, and it was the hardest decision we had to make, but we chose to let him go. He was comfortable, happy, and at peace.

Whatever will be the most comfortable for Jack is what I'd do, if it were me. I know its hard. Is the vet certain its cancer? Can you get a different opinion? What about Jack? Is he 'telling you' he's tired?
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Hang in there, Voyageur. This must be so painful for both you and your poor puppy. I can't add anything, except for encouraging to try this vitamin C therapy. It performed a miracle with logos5x5's dog. If nothing else, it should help give him strength and reduce the pain a bit. But you will know what is best.

:hug2:
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Voyageur, I am really sorry to hear that your furry friend is in pain. :hug2:

I showed the image and told your story to one of the teachers here that also practices as a vet doctor, and he said that he doesn't see any tumor (and usually that would be osteosarcoma). He said that's it's probably arthrosis (Not arthritis as I previously mentioned. Arthritis is an inflammatory condition affecting joints whereas arthrosis is a degenerative condition where the cartilage of the joints are affected by wear and tear due to age) and recommended beside analgesics and anti-inflammatory drugs to take also chondroprotectors. But there are probably also natural ways to treat it.

Don't know how cancer was diagnosed and if your vet did other tests beside x-rays to reach this conclusion, also it's possible that my teacher is mistaken, so that's just another opinion without actually seeing your dog. Maybe HE will have a better idea.

Lots of hugs! :hug2:

edit: added content
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Here is a small image of how osteosarcoma of the canine humerus looks like.
https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2005/fall/co.htm
And this one too:
http://www.infovets.com/healthydog/Images/F610-11.jpg

And this quote is from the first link, that explains how to actually diagnose osteosarcoma. Notice that other cancers beside osteo- can't be seen on the x-ray, so bone biopsy has to be done.

The typical presentation of canine OSA is lameness of the affected limb with or without a noticeable swelling or mass at the tumor site. The lameness is either due to periosteal inflammation, microfractures, or pathologic fractures. If swelling is present, it is likely due to extension of the tumor into the surrounding soft tissues.

Diagnosis of canine OSA is made based on the clinical presentation described above, a complete orthopedic and neurologic examination (to rule out other causes of lameness), physical examination, regional radiographs and bone biopsy. Radiographic signs include loss of cortical bone, periosteal proliferation, palisading cortical bone, Codman's triangle, loss of fine trabecular pattern in metaphyseal bone, and metaphyseal collapse with a pathologic fracture. Although these changes are distinct, they are not pathognomonic for OSA. Other conditions such as fibrosarcoma (FSA), chondrosarcoma (CSA), and fungal osteomyelitis may be indistinguishable radiographically. This is why a bone biopsy is needed to help obtain an accurate diagnosis.

Added: It's possible that the image is just isn't clear enough, because if I squeeze my eyes I can actually see some darker areas just under the humeral epiphysis. But it still has a long way to go to resemble the other images of osteosarcomas. But I can understand the confusion, because the description of the symptoms is similar. So yeah, ask your vet for a biopsy, unless he already did it.
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

I am very sorry, voyageur. Jack has such a serene face in that picture, I hope he doesn't have to suffer more. I agree with everyone else about amputating his leg, and chemo will only make him sicker. Some vit C therapy and lots of love will make his remaining time more comfortable, I too think. Is the vet sure in his diagnosis?

Hang in there, it seems that you had a lot on your plate recently, but know that we are here :hug:

Added: Just saw your post Keit. I was also wondering if biopsy was performed and whether the vet who saw Jack was sure about his diagnosis.
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Keit said:
Voyageur, I am really sorry to hear that your furry friend is in pain. :hug2:

I showed the image and told your story to one of the teachers here that also practices as a vet doctor, and he said that he doesn't see any tumor (and usually that would be osteosarcoma).
I didn't see it either. But the image quality is very poor. If I were you Voyager at this point I would take the dog and the x-ray for second opinion possibly to the vet who specializes in radiographic imaging or at least orthopedics if possible. He might need to take more images though.
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Thank you all very much for your words; they mean a great deal. As Laura's words mentioned concerning removing his leg, this was immediately clear when it was conveyed by the vet to me; this would not be considered due to Jack's age, along with the implicated bearing on his physical and psychological health. The vet rolled this off i guess as the standard treatments given, and he and i both knew this was (including the chemo) not for Jack.

Thank you for the link to logos5x5, and although it was bladder related in his uncle's dog, similar treatment will be tried with Jack with close monitoring of his pain. The links to the article and photo's offered by Keit give me great pause to understand why a biopsy was not suggested ( i will be calling today about this). The original x-rays did show a cross hatching shadow in that area seen on the referenced link, although not as pronounced. The vet indicated that the cancer in this type is rearranging calcium. The pain is caused by the lifting up (i don't have the correct term) of his skin from the bone and movement impacts the nerve endings causing sharp pain. The separation of something, possibly bone fragmentation, may be the worst driver of his pain.

I have some DSMO and am going to apply this and keep him hydrated as Psyche suggested.

Jack slept through the night and i walked him around the house up a ramp this morning. He immediately drank water and then lay down. He ate part of his food (and this is what i mixed the medication in so he did not get a full dose), and since has been resting. He even tried to roll over on his back for attention and is content to remain still and sleep.

Herr Eisenheim said:
Keit said:
Voyageur, I am really sorry to hear that your furry friend is in pain. :hug2:

I showed the image and told your story to one of the teachers here that also practices as a vet doctor, and he said that he doesn't see any tumor (and usually that would be osteosarcoma).
I didn't see it either. But the image quality is very poor. If I were you Voyager at this point I would take the dog and the x-ray for second opinion possibly to the vet who specializes in radiographic imaging or at least orthopedics if possible. He might need to take more images though.

The vet is one of two at the practice and the other, who generally treats our animals, is away till after the weekend, so ill await for his return, if Jack remains stable, and seek additional discussion over and above what can be determined today. I'll ask about a specialist in radiographic imaging and see what comes up, i'm also going to ask if they can somehow send me a better image then what i photographed - i am not sure how the vet will react to me asking questions about baseline diagnostic evaluation, yet will figure it out.

Thank you each and all again for your words and thoughts. I'll check in later today.
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Glad you have some info and things to try voyageur. I hope you can treat Jack and ease his suffering. Take care. :hug2:
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

I'm very sorry, too. My thoughts are with you and Jack, Voyaguer. Pets are so special.
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

It has been an interesting day to say the least. Having read the things people have said here or linked to, i knew i needed to take notes and come up with questions to ask the vet that i did not think of before.

Firstly, Jack had a fair day despite his lameness. He ate, as said earlier, only a partial morning meal, yet drank lots and lots of water through the day and slept or rested with comfort - he had lots of attention. His great grandmother (who he adores) came up to the house to watch him for a few hours so i could get things done in town, including the vet visit.

Earlier, i called the vet with my fist question and they said he would call back. The call did come, and to my surprise it was Jack's long time vet from his puppy days. The vet was shocked at hearing the news and said they had been discussing just how much the think of him their, and he was surprised, checking his notes, at the passage of time in remembering Jack was over ten yrs of age. Anyway, he and i go back over a few decades so was comfortable asking questions. Asked if he had looked at the x-rays and he had. I don't know if what he said makes sense to people like HE or Keit, however, i'll try and convey in the questions and answers below:

- Confirmed that the original thinking was Osteosarcoma
- He said of the negative film that it appears at an early stage, there are always other possibilities, yet 80% (when asked) was what his thinking was towards this cancer type.
- He too, discussed the typical options (remove leg, Chemo) and i said that this would not be done; he agreed.
- Of the possible fragmented section (when asked) he said it could be a tendon and calcification, he is not clear absolutely.
- When asked concerning doing a biopsy, he said, yes this can be done of course. He said his bone would need to be drilled and then the biopsy sent to a lab. The biopsy plug then needs to be bathed (for a period of time) to remove calcium. He said this can take upwards of a month.
- He recommended monitoring his pain and keeping him comfortable and then x-ray again in a month; which would further confirm or not, what the biopsy delay would confirm.
- Discussed blood sample for this and he said it might indicate a elevated calcium level, yet often it will not.
- He was not overtly keen on the DSMO (and he uses it a lot with horses), yet he gave me a new tube.
- He was not hopeful with Vit-C, yet said, like the DMSO, it can't harm.
- He gave me the negative film proofs so i can check them out with a specialist (i don't have one) and said the specialist would likely want to take further photo's, so this means taking Jack a long long way with sedation again - this is not ruled out.

Of the reading today, applied DMSO, picked up and administered EFA High potency (the vet had this). Started a new batch of lipo vit-c and have yet to work out the dose (Ascorbate is recommended at 1500 mg for large dog's twice daily with immune dysfunction). Does this sound the way to go rather than what is typical with Vit-C? Jack's food has been adjusted to include a different raw blend, which he ate well this evening (this had the medication added).

I know the vet has Jack's best intentions at heart and know that he is conventional, too. With whatever happens during the next while, his comfort will always be foremost and will go day to day trying to give him what i can to see if internal change can be made.

Overall today, Jack was grateful for the attention and love he received and looked content. It is devastating watching him try to manage while on all fours and he clearly knows his limitations and seeks his own comfort. I'll try to listen to him as he speaks of his beings needs - i know he will let me know.

Of the negative print x-ray, i tried to see if i could somehow copy it professionally and digitally; it is not possible here at least. Improvising, taped (both prints) to our window with a white towel hanging outside and behind. This is the best reproduction i can manage, and it is difficult to tell. Having looked again at the photo Keit linked to; it certainly is not like that, i guess a later stage (dark and pronounced).



Having posted before about our families other animals health or their passing, many people here have also shared their experiences, some of late. These little creatures we bring into our lives and nurture are simply incredible for what the teach us about their being and ourselves. I am very grateful for people like HE, who give care each day to these animals and help people with their animals suffering. I thank you all for helping me struggle through this, and Jack, if he could post, would especially thank you with :hug2:
 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

voyageur said:
Improvising, taped (both prints) to our window with a white towel hanging outside and behind. This is the best reproduction i can manage, and it is difficult to tell. Having looked again at the photo Keit linked to; it certainly is not like that, i guess a later stage (dark and pronounced).

I sent the image to the vet, and the only additional thing he had to say was, that the fragmented segment may be indeed a biceps brachii's (one of the shoulder muscles) tendon ossification. Beside that, if it's a tumor in its early stages, maybe only a biopsy (or a good specialist) will be able to confirm the diagnosis.

In any case, here are snapshots from the pdf file I have that describe the biopsy procedure. Just in case you would like to know how it works.





I also took the following snapshot from the Merck Vet Manual program. It may give you additional info, and it also contains an image for comparison.

 
Re: Receiving a most difficult diagnosis today

Hi voyager,
I am glad you wouldn't consider chemo, it would only prolong the suffering.
The image is not much better now and I wouldn't be able to state with certainty changes on the image are 100% conclusive of osteosarcoma. But since the two of your vets agree on this diagnosis perhaps they are seeing something I cannot see. That's why I leave these to radio-graphic specialty - its a very subtle craft . I am going to send the image to my uni and see what they say.
The biopsy would definitely be a way to go but on the other hand this means more pain and discomfort. My attitude in situations like this is-"is this procedure going to cure the condition?
If the Osteosarcoma diagnosis is correct - confirming it will not give us more therapeutic options.
 

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