Canning meat/what Equipment is needed, how much canning is necessary

[dugdeep]

I think it is best practice to sterilize jars as soon as the bone broth has been made. This way you avoid two problems in one go:
- the bone broth is still hot (even though I cannot really see why this should contribute to jars breaking more easily)
- no contamination

Normally it is recommended to sterilize low-acid foods for 90 minutes, but bone broth only for 25 minutes for a quart. The reason that I believe this is enough is that the broth is still hot and bubbling and thus sterile. This may not necessarily be the case if the bone broth is left to cool down and then kept unsterilized for a certain period of time.

That's my understanding anyway - please correct me, if I'm wrong!

I'm pretty sure the pressure canning process IS the sterilization process. What reason is there to pre-sterilize jars you're about to crank up to 120 degrees? As far as I know, sterilization is for doing things in hot water baths like jams and fruit and veggie preserves.

Unless I'm not understanding what you mean by sterilization.

Sorry, dugdeep, if I wasn't precise enough ...

Sterilizing refers to the process to make food safe for longtime storage. At least in my native language, so maybe this is not the correct technical term in English ... ?

Depending on the type of food you want to sterilize, the method differs. For low-acid foods you need to pressure can, for high-acid foods it is enough to put them through a waterbath type process.

Hope that this clarifies the problem, thanks for pointing this out to me!

OK, yeah, misunderstanding. I think you and I were saying the same thing, nicklebleu :) What the Bernardin rep was referring to was pre-sterilizing the jars by putting them in boiling water before putting the food in them. Although this isn't a harmful step, everything I've read about canning is that it's not necessary if you're pressure canning.

 

[Gaby]

For those of you who are having trouble finding the appropriate canning lids and jars, here is what I've found. In some countries, canning is a tradition but without the classical recommended lids and jars. They use twist-off lids that are sterilizable at very high temperatures. They sell them specifying that they are for meat or fish. If it is not specified, be suspicious because a manufacturer might really not have a clue. It could be the case that the lids are just suitable for canning vegetables or fruit.

The twist-off lids for canning meat should withstand very high temperatures and they shouldn't give you any sealing problems. I'm attaching pics of my jars and lids. They are the ones used by some manufacturers to can fish and pork for mass production. I've never had a problem with them even when I stuff the jars to the very top. For lamb, it doesn't matter how much I squeeze it in or stuff it to the very top, it always shrinks to almost half its size.

Notice how the lids have some indentations on the edges and a seal-ring at the inner side.

 

[Gwenllian]

I did my second batch in the pressure canner with my new jars and twist-off lids. It didn't go so well. One jar was fine, one jar didn't seal and the rest was filled with water, but they did seal.

Are the twist-off lids sterilizable? Strange, I've done several batches and never had any problems. The first couple of times I over did it because I thought it was supposed to be 3 hours instead of 90 minutes... The other times I did 90 minutes, but instead of removing the canner from the heating source, I just turned it off and went to bed. The morning afterwards, I opened the canner and all the jars were still hot and bubbling. So I took them out and checked them at the end of the day to find that they cooled-off and got sealed. I pack the jars to the very top and only once I found some spillage, but all the jars sealed when they cooled off.

Only once have I done it by the book. That is, after 90 minutes, I remove from heating source, wait until the pressure gets exhausted and then take the jars out so they can cool off. It was okay. Perhaps if you continue having problems, it would be better to find another source for jars.

I thought it was water, but apparently it was gelatin! I canned some meat from Scottish Highlanders (as they are called over here) and didn't expect any gelatin. But of course in the beginning it looked like water, until I put one jar in the fridge to test it. And it gelled beautifully. The meat tastes wonderful and is also fatty.
Thanks for the replies. :)

 

[Andromeda]

OK, yeah, misunderstanding. I think you and I were saying the same thing, nicklebleu :) What the Bernardin rep was referring to was pre-sterilizing the jars by putting them in boiling water before putting the food in them. Although this isn't a harmful step, everything I've read about canning is that it's not necessary if you're pressure canning.

Yeah, apparently it's not necessary to pre-sterilize the jars unless you are processing them for less than 10 minutes. http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_01/sterile_jars.html
We wash/rinse them before use in case there are any chemicals from production, packing and shipping though.

She still kept saying that the problem was using room-temperature jars and not heating the broth first before putting it in the jars. I told he I've never had this problem before, but she pretty much wouldn't budge on her position.

The only time we've had any trouble is if the jar was REALLY hot and was touched to REALLY cold water. So maybe if the jar is REALLY cold and is put in really hot water, it would weaken the glass - but I'm talking about serious extremes. There have been many times that we prepared jars the day before and stored them in the refrigerator overnight to process the next day, and they turned out fine.

The twist-off lids for canning meat should withstand very high temperatures and they shouldn't give you any sealing problems. I'm attaching pics of my jars and lids. They are the ones used by some manufacturers to can fish and pork for mass production. I've never had a problem with them even when I stuff the jars to the very top. For lamb, it doesn't matter how much I squeeze it in or stuff it to the very top, it always shrinks to almost half its size.

Everyone should be careful about not stuffing jars TOO full though. Even if they initially seal, they may lose their seal quickly and spoil. http://www.pickyourown.org/canning_headspace.htm

 

[dugdeep]

She still kept saying that the problem was using room-temperature jars and not heating the broth first before putting it in the jars. I told he I've never had this problem before, but she pretty much wouldn't budge on her position.

The only time we've had any trouble is if the jar was REALLY hot and was touched to REALLY cold water. So maybe if the jar is REALLY cold and is put in really hot water, it would weaken the glass - but I'm talking about serious extremes. There have been many times that we prepared jars the day before and stored them in the refrigerator overnight to process the next day, and they turned out fine.

Yep, that's what I did; ie. storing it in the fridge overnight. I even let them come up to room temperature on the counter all day, so there was no extreme temperature difference. I still think there was something wrong with this batch of jars and it wasn't "heat shock", as the rep from the company said (or rather, it might have been heat shock, but a normal functional jar shouldn't have reacted that way). I'll try another brand next time.

 

[aragorn]

I canned a some ground beef in quart jars yesterday, and once again some of them didn't seal properly!

The label is Italian, goes by the name 'Quattro Stagioni' and they come with one piece twist lids. I'm gonna stick with pint jars from now on, since I haven't had any trouble with those. Besides, pints are probably more convinient to use, one might be enough to cook a meal for two adults and two little children.

 

[Breton]

I canned a some ground beef in quart jars yesterday, and once again some of them didn't seal properly!

The label is Italian, goes by the name 'Quattro Stagioni' and they come with one piece twist lids. I'm gonna stick with pint jars from now on, since I haven't had any trouble with those. Besides, pints are probably more convinient to use, one might be enough to cook a meal for two adults and two little children.

What size jars are most people using the most? Quart (near 1L) or pint (near .5 L)?

Also any trouble with glass stop stoves? There has been some conflicting comments about those on Amazon. Some people have gone out and bought a propane burner for their large canner.

 

[seek10]

I canned a some ground beef in quart jars yesterday, and once again some of them didn't seal properly!

The label is Italian, goes by the name 'Quattro Stagioni' and they come with one piece twist lids. I'm gonna stick with pint jars from now on, since I haven't had any trouble with those. Besides, pints are probably more convinient to use, one might be enough to cook a meal for two adults and two little children.

What size jars are most people using the most? Quart (near 1L) or pint (near .5 L)?

Also any trouble with glass stop stoves? There has been some conflicting comments about those on Amazon. Some people have gone out and bought a propane burner for their large canner.

I have seen confusion with the glass top stoves for canning. Based on the some video's I have seen, the manufacturer recommends not to use glass top stoves for canning, but people any way do it with out any issues. Since manufacturer doesn't recommend it, there may be some thing to it. Not sure what it is.

 

[Breton]

I canned a some ground beef in quart jars yesterday, and once again some of them didn't seal properly!

The label is Italian, goes by the name 'Quattro Stagioni' and they come with one piece twist lids. I'm gonna stick with pint jars from now on, since I haven't had any trouble with those. Besides, pints are probably more convinient to use, one might be enough to cook a meal for two adults and two little children.

What size jars are most people using the most? Quart (near 1L) or pint (near .5 L)?

Also any trouble with glass stop stoves? There has been some conflicting comments about those on Amazon. Some people have gone out and bought a propane burner for their large canner.

I have seen confusion with the glass top stoves for canning. Based on the some video's I have seen, the manufacturer recommends not to use glass top stoves for canning, but people any way do it with out any issues. Since manufacturer doesn't recommend it, there may be some thing to it. Not sure what it is.

Example comments from various people on Amazon:

I've heard that you don't want to use a canner on a ceramic top because the bottom of the pot extends so far outside of the burner that the difference in temperature between the burner and the outside area of the burner -- with the pot distributing the heat outside the burner area -- will cause the glass to crack. A friend told me that this happened to her stove.


Actually, for all of you folks who think this is a smooth cooktop issue, alone, please be advised that any large piece of cookware used on any ELECTRIC range, can damage the burner coil outlets beneath the range top; this includes large griddle plates, or large stock pots because they hold heat over a large surface area. I had to replace a burner coil outlet on one stove because it was melted by my 17-qt Presto canner. When it was replaced, I was advised by the appliance service person that the cause of the meltdown was the canner. Evidently, only gas cooktops are absolutely safe for this type of equipment.

This has to do with weight, not with the actual product (the All-American canner). I work my glass-top stove like a rented mule (water baths, stir-frying, pressure canning, etc) and haven't had any problems, but to each their own. P.S., my mom has this canner, and it's excellent- I aspire to own one some day.

Just about every informational source on home canning describes the problems of canning on a smooth cooktop. The problem is NOT the weight of the canner, the problem is that most smooth cooktop stoves have sensors that limit the amount of continuous heat, which is a canning safety issue.

We bought a camp chef stove (explorer model) from amazon to use. We really like it because you won't damage your stove and you keep the heat outside. :)

Some people are concerned that it cannot be used on a glass top stove. This is not true. I have used mine on a glass top for several years. I have also used it on coils and even gas. It works on every type of stove I have tried it on.

 

[dugdeep]

Example comments from various people on Amazon:

[...]

Just about every informational source on home canning describes the problems of canning on a smooth cooktop. The problem is NOT the weight of the canner, the problem is that most smooth cooktop stoves have sensors that limit the amount of continuous heat, which is a canning safety issue.

[...]

I think this is the real issue, not so much the weight or the canner being too big for the element. Most of the glass top stoves I've seen work by heating the element to a certain level and then turning off until it cools to a certain point, then turning on again. Canning requires a constant heat source. My canner instructions even warn against having any kind of draft blowing on the canner while it's operating.

 

[aragorn]

I think I'm done with the glass top stove, grrrrr! Yesterday I canned again the ground beef from the non-sealed quart jars (that I processed the previous day), this time using pints. Again, it was hard to keep the temperature even at 11PSI, on occasions it went up to 13PSI. And the result was that many of the jar lids got burned, and they did not seal.

I think I've been lucky so far with good seals, now the limitations of the glass top stove are becoming apparent. I'm gonna check out those portable electric stoves.

 

[Breton]

Example comments from various people on Amazon:

[...]

Just about every informational source on home canning describes the problems of canning on a smooth cooktop. The problem is NOT the weight of the canner, the problem is that most smooth cooktop stoves have sensors that limit the amount of continuous heat, which is a canning safety issue.

[...]

I think this is the real issue, not so much the weight or the canner being too big for the element. Most of the glass top stoves I've seen work by heating the element to a certain level and then turning off until it cools to a certain point, then turning on again. Canning requires a constant heat source. My canner instructions even warn against having any kind of draft blowing on the canner while it's operating.

Yes this caught my eye too, and I have seen this. However those that seem satisified with their canners on the glass stove top must not find the alternating heat to cause them real troubles, despite the warnings to have a constant heat source - maybe?


Here is another one to add to the different stories:

[snip]
I did some research to see what was up with this issue. My range is made of Schott-Ceran. Here's what they say on their site:

"Pans with copper or aluminum bases are also not suitable for cooking as these may leave residues which are very difficult to remove. If aluminum residues are not removed with a suitable cleaning agent immediately after cooking, they may leave permanent burning stains and make the appearance of the cooktop less attractive."

I called All-American to see what they said and they pretty much agreed, saying that the range-makers want them to have that on the box because it could mess up the top.

So apparently it isn't the weight of this pressure cooker that's the problem -- it's the aluminum (though obviously if you drop this beast on your glass-top stove it won't be good).

My glass-top stove looks like crap anyway so I kept this pressure cooker and it works great. I use it once a week to make dog food and haven't noticed any serious staining to the range.
[snip]

 

[paralleloscope]

I think I'm done with the glass top stove, grrrrr! Yesterday I canned again the ground beef from the non-sealed quart jars (that I processed the previous day), this time using pints. Again, it was hard to keep the temperature even at 11PSI, on occasions it went up to 13PSI. And the result was that many of the jar lids got burned, and they did not seal.

I think I've been lucky so far with good seals, now the limitations of the glass top stove are becoming apparent. I'm gonna check out those portable electric stoves.

I've been using a portable electric stove and even though the burn plate is smaller than the base of the presto it has had no problem heating it. Did you get the 3 way regulator that you recommended? Since getting that and doing thorough vinegar wipes of glasses rims, unsealed ones are very rare. It's really so much less hassle (time and worry wise) not having to constantly adjust to find the right heating/pressure, and I think the seals like the even pressure.

What size jars are most people using the most? Quart (near 1L) or pint (near .5 L)?

I've only used 1 liter glasses (type: Weck)

 

[Ollie]

...
What size jars are most people using the most? Quart (near 1L) or pint (near .5 L)?

...

OK, I'm using a boiling water canner, and the size of jars that I predominately use are 3/4L backed up by 0.5L jars - this is mainly due to height restrictions. When canning lard or butter, eggs and beetroot, I have used 1L jars (much shorter immersion time).

This may help, or not.

 

[Foxx]

I think I'm done with the glass top stove, grrrrr! Yesterday I canned again the ground beef from the non-sealed quart jars (that I processed the previous day), this time using pints. Again, it was hard to keep the temperature even at 11PSI, on occasions it went up to 13PSI. And the result was that many of the jar lids got burned, and they did not seal.

I think I've been lucky so far with good seals, now the limitations of the glass top stove are becoming apparent. I'm gonna check out those portable electric stoves.

I'm wondering if you're not using enough water or whether using more water would alleviate this problem. I haven't had this happen yet and the stove I've been canning on is completely inconsistent so I usually end up canning between 13-15PSI because I can't regulate it to a consistent temperature (so annoying). It is an old electric stove, so maybe it being on glass really is the problem.

Is there water in the pressure canner when you open it after a canning session?