Carl Jung's Secret Life: "The "Aryan Christ" - something rotten in Jungian psychology?

Laura

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#1
Ark gave me the book "The Aryan Christ" the other day and I thought I needed a break from genetics, evolutionary biology and origins of life, so I started reading it. At first, I was pretty annoyed with the author, Richard Noll, for being so snarky and derogatory every time he mentioned anything having to do with paranormal research, etc. ( https://www.amazon.com/Aryan-Christ-Secret-Life-Carl/dp/0679449450 ) But, as I proceeded, and he produced documentary evidence from letters, books, interviews, etc, I began to understand why I've never really cottoned to Jung.

I'm about half way through and it seems to me, based on the account of events and relationships, that Jung was ponerized rather early on by a psychopath named Otto Gross and possibly even possessed much as Hitler may have been.

The main thing I've always thought about Jung and his ideas was that it was a perfect system designed to paper over, distort, draw attention away from, the reality of hyperdimensional beings and the idea that our reality is extruded or embedded in something that we call 4th Density. I think that reading this book makes it pretty clear that Jung was co-opted to 4D STS purposes early on. Of course, Noll would never agree with my assessment which supports entirely the hyperdimensional/paranormal reality, but at this point, I can understand why he was snarky: he was disgusted.
 

Mike

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#3
I recently read 'Jung the Mystic: The Esoteric Dimensions of Carl Jung's Life and Teachings.' This was the first book I have read on Jung. Just ordered 'The Aryan Christ.' What stands out from the book I read from memory is Jung's interest in mediums and the paranormal (he did his Phd dissertation on a relative that was a medium), his continual intimate relationships with patients and what seems like a total disregard for his wife and family, basically not paying attention to his children in any way, such as his daughter not even realizing he was her father at one point in the book that mentioned a sailing excursion, how the author of 'Jung the Mystic' mentioned how inaccessible Jung's writing is, and how much time Jung spent isolating himself and doing 'active imagination' (kind of a engaged, imaginative meditation) for periods of years. This 'active imagination' is what was supposed to have brought him back from metal illness that was threatening to engulf him and losing touch with reality fully as well as being the source or inspiration for a lot, most or all of his ideas. Could be that during this period he was being worked on by 4D STS or whatnot and basically 'inspired' in a deliberate way. I was also very surprised how Jung was so much inner and self-focused overall. He didn't seem to fit with engaging with life and was lost in his own world. Thinking back after reading Laura's post above, Jung seemed to be a precursor to the new-age movement and the drop out of engaging with society and life stuff, but I'd have to do a lot more reading to qualify that and hash it out in my mind. Looking forward to reading 'The Aryan Christ.'
 

fabric

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I'm about half way through and it seems to me, based on the account of events and relationships, that Jung was ponerized rather early on by a psychopath named Otto Gross and possibly even possessed much as Hitler may have been.
That’s very interesting. I read Dreams, Memories, Reflections awhile back and while I did like the book overall, it was quite ‘dark’ in a way. Looking at it in that light, I might need to go back and take a look again because some stuff he says almost sounds like it could be the process of being co-opted. It seemed like his whole life he was stuck in this ‘inner world’ where he was not really in touch with people and seemed rather self-centered. He doesn't mention Otto or the other affairs he had (but that's expected).

Although his work on archetypes I thought was good and some of his musings on the ‘collective unconscious’ (which I looked at more in terms of 'information/morphogenic’ field), some other things didn’t really make all that much sense - like his obsession with mandalas and dreams or his ramblings in his 'Red Book'. But I don't know much else about him other than various bits I've read on the web and in his memoir.

In any case, I look forward to checking it out and busting some myths. I was under the impression that he wasn't so bad and Freud was the bad guy, but maybe I've got it wrong.
 

Pashalis

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#7
I remember reading in the book "The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of Americas's Secret Government" by David Talbot, a while ago, a number of passages about Jung and his direct connections to Dulles and his wife and found myself rather bewildered by it. I thought that was at the minimum somewhat curious. It seems Jung "treated" (and/or was in contact with) a number of high profile CIA people, "Celebrities" and people of power back then. One of course wonders what exactly his ties to those people were and in how far he was used by them and/or he was on a similar page then they were.

Found a couple of websites that seem to look into that CIA/Dullas/Jung connection a bit closer. Have't read them yet, so take it with a big grain of salt:

_Alex Constantine's Blacklist: C.G. Jung and Allen Dulles
_The Shrink as Secret Agent: Jung, Hitler, and the OSS
_The Dulles Brothers and Their Legacy of Perpetual War
_Useful People - The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government
 

Laura

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Well, the sexual dysphoria of today looks like it has roots in Jungian Dionysian ideas. The guy was SERIOUSLY warped. He actually wrote that the "god within" was libido.

I can see a session with Cs coming up...
 

Laura

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#9
Oh, another thing: apparently he collected his ideas about archetypes from the psychotic delusions of people in a mental hospital. If they were kind of like mythological images, he felt this was confirmation; if not, he just discarded them as evidence.

So, we have the libidinal subconscious of Freud on the one hand, and the Libidinal God of Jung on the other. No wonder our world is totally messed up.
 

SlipNet

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#11
I'm somewhat surprised by these revelations about Jung; I always saw him as a kind of antidote to the sexual neuroses of Freud, but this has really got my attention. I've ordered the book and look forward to reading it.
 

Gaby

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#12
That explains a few things!! I read one of his books and that's it. Didn't derive anything beneficial from it. Other books by Jungian psychologists were more insightful and useful. I'm not sure to what extent I benefited from them though. I'm sure that at some point in my life, some Jungian related books I've read were detrimental for me. At some point I felt nauseous with the idea of reading yet another Jungian psychology related book and I stopped. I had more than enough of it. Focusing on practical aspects in my life was definitely more useful.
 

Approaching Infinity

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#13
So, we have the libidinal subconscious of Freud on the one hand, and the Libidinal God of Jung on the other. No wonder our world is totally messed up.
I only ever read one Jung book: Psychology and Alchemy (based on Wolfgang Pauli's dreams). Thought it had some interesting ideas, but not much stuck with me. As for the libido being God, didn't Freud and Jung have totally different conceptions of the libido? As far as I know Jung defined the libido very broadly, as creative or psychic energy, only one expression of which was sex. For Freud, libido was just sex. I.e, for Jung, sex was nested in something larger; for Freud everything was nested within sex. So it might be useful to separate his thoughts on sex from his thoughts in libido?

On that topic, I just stumbled on this. Looks like Jung hated the Catholic church so much that he wanted to destroy it by unleashing the power of "disordered sex".

The Scorpion and the Frog

Source is another work by Roll: "The Jung Cult".
 

Approaching Infinity

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#14

Altair

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I'm somewhat surprised by these revelations about Jung; I always saw him as a kind of antidote to the sexual neuroses of Freud, but this has really got my attention. I've ordered the book and look forward to reading it.
Me too. I read some books of him and they kinda made sense for me back then. But as for practical purposes, there wasn't much that I could derive from them.
 
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