Carlos Castenada

Mal7 said:
Part of De Mille's methodology was to put into a timeline everything that Castaneda and Don Juan did, as far as it could be determined from the novels, and then to look for inconsistencies, such as things that are first described as happening before something else, and then later after that something else, or changes in Don Juan's personality or manner as presented in the same time periods (although this can be negated by assuming Don Juan was capable of assuming all different kinds of personalities in quick succession).

i'm inclined to think Castaneda's stories are not an exact account of his experiences. perhaps he simplified and linearized much of them, so as to make the whole thing easier to follow while preserving its essence. the incosistencies might be a result of that.

Here is another quote from Castaneda's Journey about a possible source. I include this one not as further evidence of Castaneda's possible plagiarism of ideas, but on the other hand as an example of what I think is a weak point from De Mille. The matter of which ear was spoken into, left or right, could just be a coincidence, rather than something derived from western psychology:

from what i read, this seems largely representative for De Mille's method. he simply treats any analogies between Castaneda's accounts and various other esoteric and psychological writings as a proof of plagiarism on the part of the former.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
I've spent some time reading bits and pieces of The Don Juan papers by Richard De Mille, and I wrote a short critique as an exercise in developing my communication skills. Bare in mind that I haven't read the whole thing, and it presents just my personal opinion. Enjoy.

The Don Juan papers are a collection of 44 essay’s written by various authors (including R. De Mille) and edited by Richard De Mille. De Mille seems to believe through and through that Castaneda is a hoaxer and a trickster, but to his credit, the book doesn’t contain essay’s coming from just this view.

From what I read of the book (roughly 10 of the essays) it seems to me that De Mille is just trying to show that there are elements of fiction in Castaneda’s books, while making no attempt whatsoever to debunk the phenomenon. To me, it seems that De Mille’s argument is that Castaneda evidently made up his stories, therefore there is no phenomenon to debunk.

Having said that, I think taking the romance out of Castaneda’s stories isn’t such a bad idea, as it seems that quite a lot of people got carried away by the books, and as a result, caused some damage. And the fantasies created by these books may have held people back from understanding the actual phenomenon presented in the books.

De Mille seems to have found that while Castaneda was supposedly in the desert with Don Juan, according to his books, he was actually at the UCLA trying to push his writings, but no one seemed interested. De Mille also argues that the narrative in Castaneda’s books follows the rise and decline of Leary’s drug craze movement, and even borrows names and themes more of less directly.

This leads to the idea that Castaneda’s experiences in his books are just his memories from his experiences taking drugs, as well as just straight rip offs of reports by other drug users.

So, is this where Castaneda’s alternative cognitive system came from? Is it just a social consensus of reality from a group of people who experience reality zoned out more often than not? This seems possible to me on the surface, but De Mille does reference some pretty good circumstantial evidence for phenomenon that exists outside of the current mainstream scientific understanding in his attempt to show the sources that Castaneda ripped off. What I think is interesting about that is that De Mille never tries to debunk the phenomenon presented in those sources, however, I think he thinks he doesn’t need to.

De Mille does bring up the point that Castaneda speaks of some of his experience’s in the second ring of power as definite, even after he has made the point that these experience’s can’t be verified by the reasonable mind, i.e. they’re more like dreams than actual real experiences.

De Mille also suggests that some of Castaneda’s narratives are just metaphors and allegories of everyday life. For example, the idea that children steal part of their parents energy, De Mille suggests that this is a metaphor of when someone has a child, they are then forced to grow up, and thus the child has stolen the parents ability to live in the fantasy would, which is the world De Mille suggests Castaneda is writing about. Other examples include the feminist movement and the drug craze.

Suffice it to say, that either I’m completely convinced that Castaneda's narrative is at least partly fictional or De Mille’s book is filled with outright and blatant lies. Having said that, De Mille doesn’t seem to discuss the phenomenon presented in the books, and he doesn’t seem to present an opinion of whether or not there’s some truth to them. And due to the nature of the reality presented in Castaneda’s books the only way to verify the existence of the phenomenon is work on the self. Because of this, I believe that De Mille couldn't see the forest for the trees.

That's it, I still haven't finished reading De Mille's alleglossary, I'm looking for other references and information about the various subject's in Castaneda's books. I'll post anything I think is relevant here.
 

Mal7

Dagobah Resident
I don't think De Mille was writing from the perspective of a hard-nosed scientific materialist/reductionist skeptic, trying to debunk the existence of any kind of non-ordinary psychic phenomena. My reason for thinking this is that in the preface to the second edition of De Mille's Castaneda's Journey (1978), in replying to a few fans who thought Castaneda himself had written De Mille's Castaneda's Journey, he wrote:

Delighted as I was with that reaction, I must state for the record that in spite of common interests in social science, religion, metaphysics, magic, ESP, visions, and trickery, Castaneda and I are definitely not the same person.
- page vii.

The recent book by William Patrick Patterson, which was mentioned earlier in this thread, The Life and Teachings of Carlos Castaneda (2008), sounds like it might be an even better secondary source on Castaneda's books than De Mille's books are, particularly as two of the Castaneda books on the "Recommended Books from the QFS" list (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4718.msg31032) both came out after De Mille's (edited by) The Don Juan Papers (1980):

The Active Side of Infinity (1999)
The Fire from Within (1984)
 
A

Archaea

Guest
I don't think De Mille was writing from the perspective of a hard-nosed scientific materialist/reductionist skeptic, trying to debunk the existence of any kind of non-ordinary psychic phenomena.

I've been thinking about this for the past few days, and I think my thinking on this was either an assumption on my part or an inference I made which may not have been warranted. At any rate I don't think it's what's important, I think what's important is whether there is any phenomenon which results from doing and achieving the work.

I've also finished reading De Mille's Alleglossary, and I've compiled a list of books and authors which I think might shed some light on any phenomenon that exists, I used Amazon.com fairly heavily. I haven't read any of these books, but on the surface some of them look interesting. Quotes are from the linked website.

Books:

*Magic and Mystery in Tibet By Alexandra David-Neel
http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Mystery-Tibet-Alexandra-David-Neel/dp/0486226824/ref=sr_1_2/191-9579129-1483752?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372917947&sr=1-2

Seeker, adventurer, pilgrim, and scholar, David-Neel (1868–1969) was the first European woman to explore the once-forbidden city of Lhasa. This memoir offers an objective account of the supernatural events she witnessed during the 1920s among the mystics and hermits of Tibet — including levitation, telepathy, and the ability to walk on water. Includes 32 photographs.

*The Peyote Dance Antonin Artaud
http://www.amazon.com/Peyote-Dance-Antonin-Artaud/dp/0374511004/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372918329&sr=1-1

this book floored me. this was the first of artaud's books that i have picked up. what a fascinating guy! in this book he writes of his experiences with some red skinned indigenous people in the mountains of mexico. the people he encounters are so 'unevolved" from an ignorant western perspective. they are without technology or science as we know it and yet they have existed untouched by modern man for eons. how could this be? well, like many indigenous peoples they use shamanic healing ceremonies in which their leader eats peyote in order to reach an altered state of being. in this altered state profound visions are seen, visions that can help and heal the community. artaud gets initiated into their tribe over the course of his visit, takes peyote, starts tripping, and all the while keeps on writing....his words, his thoughts definately span the entire spectrum: from intriguing diary-like passages, to all-out madman raving, cursing at our sophisticated society that by his comparison is the weaker, un-evolved and lost to no end. he also writes with little punctuation in a stream of consiousness style that is fluid and mind-blowing. this is a brilliant mind, a troubled soul, a questioning spirit. read his words. get lost in his visions. he is seeking, as we all our at some time in our lives. read this book. you'll forget where you are. you'll remember something deeper. on the "other side of the veil" before life and after death, there is much to be gained. whether that state of being is achieved through psychotropic drugs or meditation or dreamstate...there is something to be gained. start your search here, with this book, and keep going deeper.

*Flight of the Eagle J. Krishnamurti
http://www.amazon.com/Flight-Eagle-J-Krishnamurti/dp/0060803029

Regarded as one of the great spiritual teachers of the twentieth century, Krishnamurti delivered his radical insights with a disarming simplicity. Here, in records of talks and dialogues in London, Paris, Amsterdam and Saanen, Switzerland, he speaks on freedom, fragmentation, radical change and more.

Chapter titles include: Freedom, Fragmentation, Meditation, Can Man Change?, Why Can’t We Live at Peace?, The Wholeness of Life, Fear, The Transcendental, On Violence, On Radical Change, The Art of Seeing, On Penetrating the Unknown.

*Flesh of the Gods: The Ritual Use of Hallucinogens Peter T. Furst
http://www.amazon.com/Flesh-Gods-The-Ritual-Hallucinogens/dp/0881334774#

For centuries, hallucinogens have been of great significance in the ideology and religious practices of primitive societies. In fact, the use of psychotropic plants to achieve states of religious ecstasy goes back almost to the beginning of human culture. Furthermore, the content of the psychedelic experience in the West today has been found to be similar to that of the religious pilgrimages of Oriental and aboriginal New World groups. But one fundamental difference overshadows all similarities: In the traditional cultures described in this collection of ten essays, the hallucinogenic "trip" is a means to an end--a quest for confirmation of traditional values, for unity with the tribal ancestors. In contemporary Western society, by contrast, it tends to be an end in itself and a rejection of the society's values--perhaps, it has been suggested, because Western drug-users tend to be a-cultural. Clearly, we have much to learn from an objective study of societies with long histories of sanctioned, and controlled, drug use to achieve recognized cultural objectives.

*Peyote Hunt: The Sacred Journey of the Huichol Indians (Symbol, Myth and Ritual) Barbara G. Myerhoff
http://www.amazon.com/Peyote-Hunt-Journey-Huichol-Indians/dp/0801491371/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372919457&sr=1-2

"Ramón Medina Silva, a Huichol Indian shaman priest or mara'akame, instructed me in many of his culture's myths, rituals, and symbols, particularly those pertaining to the sacred untiy of deer, maize, and peyote. The significance of this constellation of symbols was revealed to me most vividly when I accompanied Ramón on the Huichol's annual ritual return to hunt the peyote in the sacred land of Wirikuta, in myth and probably in history the place from which the Ancient Ones (ancestors and deities of the present-day Indians) came before settling in their present home in the mountains of the Sierra Madre Occidental in north-central Mexico. My work with Ramón preceded and followed our journey, but it was this peyote hunt that held the key to, and constituted the climax of, his teachings."—from the Preface

*Pygmies and dream giants Kilton Stewart
http://www.amazon.com/Pygmies-dream-giants-Kilton-Stewart/dp/B0007DQ6NK/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372919846&sr=1-1

I'm buying another copy of this book because I don't want to loan my copy out. Stewart travelled to the Philipines in the 50s to carry out further research related to his psychology thesis. I'm not qualified to comment on the theory he was testing/formulating. My imagination was caught by his lyrical prose, the amazing descriptions of people and landscape, the obvious self-awareness and wry wit and the fact that he faced real danger. The book left me envious - he travelled in a time prior to most modern communication technology and, while travelling, was often completely immersed in local tribal culture and dependent on local guides. Most of the time he was short of money and this triggered some amusing and ingenious strategies. It's one of the books I've categorised as 'to be read every few years'.

*Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus Ludwig Wittgenstein
http://www.amazon.com/Tractatus-Logico-Philosophicus-Ludwig-Wittgenstein/dp/1482045028/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372920265&sr=1-6

One of the most groundbreaking works in twentieth century analytic philosophy, Wittgenstein s Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus ambitiously attempts to delineate the relationship between reality and its representation in language, logic, and propositional thought. Composed in Wittgenstein s notoriously aphoristic style, the Tractatus is the only book Wittgenstein saw published during his lifetime. While Wittgenstein famously criticized the Tractatus and his early thought in his posthumous Philosophical Investigations, it nonetheless remains one of the most influential contributions to contemporary philosophical literature.

*Cave and Cosmos: Shamanic Encounters with Another Reality Michael Harner
http://www.amazon.com/Cave-Cosmos-Shamanic-Encounters-Another/dp/1583945466/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1372920590&sr=1-1

In 1980, Michael Harner blazed the trail for the worldwide revival of shamanism with his seminal classic The Way of the Shaman. In this long-awaited sequel, he provides new evidence of the reality of heavens.

Drawing from a lifetime of personal shamanic experiences and more than 2,500 reports of Westerners’ experiences during shamanic ascension, Harner highlights the striking similarities between their discoveries, indicating that the heavens and spirits they’ve encountered do indeed exist. He also provides instructions on his innovative core-shamanism techniques, so that readers too can ascend to heavenly realms, seek spirit teachers, and return later at will for additional healing and advice.

Written by the leading authority on shamanism, Cave and Cosmos is a must-read not only for those interested in shamanism, but also for those interested in spirituality, comparative religion, near-death experiences, healing, consciousness, anthropology, and the nature of reality.

Authors:

These are some of the other authors who have written about things which are similar to various bits and pieces of what Castaneda wrote about.

*Morris Edward Opler
http://www.amazon.com/Morris-Edward-Opler/e/B001HPZY80

Morris Edward Opler (May 3, 1907 – May 13, 1996), American anthropologist and advocate of Japanese-American civil rights, was born in Buffalo, New York. He was the brother of Marvin Opler, an anthropologist and social psychiatrist. Morris Opler's chief anthropological contribution is in the ethnography of Southern Athabaskan peoples, i.e. the Navajo and Apache, such as the Chiricahua, Mescalero, Lipan, and Jicarilla. His classic work is An Apache Life-Way (1941). He worked with Grenville Goodwin, who was also studying social organization among the Western Apache. After Goodwin's early death, Opler edited a volume of his letters from the field and other papers, published in 1973. Opler earned his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in 1933. He taught at Reed College in Portland, Oregon during the 1940s and later taught at Cornell University and the University of Oklahoma.

*Ruth Murray Underhill
http://www.amazon.com/Ruth-Murray-Underhill/e/B001H6UZXI

Ruth Murray Underhill (August 22, 1883 – August 15, 1984) was an American anthropologist. She was born in Ossining-on-the-Hudson, New York, and attended Vassar College, graduating in 1905 with a degree in Language and Literature. In 1907, she graduated from the London School of Economics and began travelling throughout Europe. During World War I, she worked for an Italian Orphanage run by the Red Cross. After the war, she married Charles C. Crawford and published her first book The White Moth. Her marriage ended in 1929 and by 1930 she decided to go back to school to learn more about human behavior. After speaking with Franz Boas and Ruth Benedict in the Anthropology Department at Columbia University, she decided to pursue the field, graduating in 1937. She wrote numerous books on Native Americans and helped to dispel many myths about their culture.

*Mircea Eliade
http://www.amazon.com/Mircea-Eliade/e/B000AP85TS

Mircea Eliade (March 13 [O.S. February 28] 1907 – April 22, 1986) was a Romanian historian of religion, fiction writer, philosopher, and professor at the University of Chicago. He was a leading interpreter of religious experience, who established paradigms in religious studies that persist to this day. His theory that hierophanies form the basis of religion, splitting the human experience of reality into sacred and profane space and time, has proved influential. One of his most influential contributions to religious studies was his theory of Eternal Return, which holds that myths and rituals do not simply commemorate hierophanies, but, at least to the minds of the religious, actually participate in them. His literary works belong to the fantastic and autobiographical genres.

*Frederik van Eeden
http://www.amazon.com/Frederik-van-Eeden/e/B001JOXWGU

According to De Mille's alleglossary Frederik van Eeden wrote some pretty interesting stuff about dreams. De Mille points out similarities of some sort between Eeden's and Castaneda's work, and comes to the conclusion that Castaneda ripped off some of Eeden's work.

*G. I. Gurdjieff
http://www.amazon.com/G.-I.-Gurdjieff/e/B000APS0SY

George Ivanovich Gurdjieff (Russian: Гео́ргий Ива́нович Гурджи́ев; January 13, 1866 – October 29, 1949) was an influential spiritual teacher of the early to mid-20th century who taught that most humans live their lives in a state of hypnotic "waking sleep", but that it is possible to transcend to a higher state of consciousness and achieve full human potential. Gurdjieff developed a method for doing so, calling his discipline "The Work" (connoting "work on oneself") or "the Method". According to his principles and instructions,. Gurdjieff's method for awakening one's consciousness is different from that of the fakir, monk or yogi, so his discipline is also called (originally) the "Fourth Way". At one point, he described his teaching as being "esoteric Christianity". At different times in his life, Gurdjieff formed and closed various schools around the world to teach the work.

*Joseph Chilton Pearce
http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Chilton-Pearce/e/B000AQTH08

Joseph Chilton Pearce (born January 14, 1926, Pineville, Kentucky, US) is an American author of a number of books on child development. He prefers the name "Joe". He served in the U.S. Army Air Corps during World War II. He graduated with a BA from College of William and Mary, received a Master of Arts degree from Indiana University, and did post-graduate studies at Geneva Theological College. He presents the idea of the heart - or compassionate mind - as a category of brain function equal in stature to the thalamus, prefrontal cortex and lower brain. He believes that active, imaginative play is the most important of all childhood activities because it cultivates mastery of one's environment, which he terms "creative competence". Children denied that form of play develop feelings of isolation and anxiety. He also believes that child-parent bonding is crucial, and sees modern clinical…

*Daisetz Teitaro Suzuki
http://www.amazon.com/Daisetz-Teitaro-Suzuki/e/B000AQ6TYU

Daisetsu Teitaro Suzuki (鈴木 大拙 貞太郎 Suzuki Daisetsu Teitarō; he rendered his name "Daisetz" in 1894; October 18, 1870 – July 12, 1966 ) was a Japanese author of books and essays on Buddhism, Zen and Shin that were instrumental in spreading interest in both Zen and Shin (and Far Eastern philosophy in general) to the West. Suzuki was also a prolific translator of Chinese, Japanese, and Sanskrit literature. Suzuki spent several lengthy stretches teaching or lecturing at Western universities, and devoted many years to a professorship at Otani University, a Japanese Buddhist school.


There are some other authors, like yogi Ramacharakra from a previous post from Mal7, which I might add later. De Mille also mentions something called Zeta Coding, which sounds like something that came from Zenuu from the planet QuinDakor or whatever, I'm going to quickly check it out though. Another thing I might do is look for the snippets from the C's sessions regarding seers and intent.
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Archaea said:
I think what's important is whether there is any phenomenon which results from doing and achieving the work.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this statement? If you're looking to "develop psychic powers" or phenomenon chase then you're missing the mark. That's rather like buying boxes of cereal for the worthless plastic prizes inside each one. The Work is about growing the seed of a soul and, with that comes everything, the psychic and "paranormal" (I put that in quotes because I don't think there's anything paranormal about it, it's just not well understood) aspects are secondary to the point, which is the development and immortality of the soul.

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding your point, though, which is why I ask.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
anart said:
Archaea said:
I think what's important is whether there is any phenomenon which results from doing and achieving the work.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this statement? If you're looking to "develop psychic powers" or phenomenon chase then you're missing the mark. That's rather like buying boxes of cereal for the worthless plastic prizes inside each one. The Work is about growing the seed of a soul and, with that comes everything, the psychic and "paranormal" (I put that in quotes because I don't think there's anything paranormal about it, it's just not well understood) aspects are secondary to the point, which is the development and immortality of the soul.

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding your point, though, which is why I ask.

Hi Anart,

Well, what I meant was similar to what you said about seeding the soul. So, it's not important whether Castaneda was truthful about the details of running around in the desert, but whether the details of the phenomenon that he describes is true. To put it another way, does the phenomenon of seeing and being able to affect things through intent result from living like a warrior and being able to silence the mind to some degree.

I'd also like to say that this forum seems like a good place to discuss this because the C's have talked about seers and have discussed intent and how it's affected by anticipation. I think this suggests that maybe Castaneda wasn't completely making up his narrative, unless he found some obscure esoteric text somewhere and got all his subjects from there, which I think is possible too, but that still doesn't discount the ideas of seeing and intent.

I hope that clears up what I meant.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
Here are the rest of the authors from De Mille's alleglossary:

*William Walker Atkinson
Books from Amazon: (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A12621%2Cp_lbr_one_browse-bin%3AWilliam%20Walker%20Atkinson)

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Walker_Atkinson):

William Walker Atkinson (December 5, 1862 – November 22, 1932) was an attorney, merchant, publisher, and author, as well as an occultist and an American pioneer of the New Thought movement. He is also known to have been the author of the pseudonymous works attributed to Theron Q. Dumont and Yogi Ramacharaka.

Due in part to Atkinson's intense personal secrecy and extensive use of pseudonyms, he is now largely forgotten, despite having written more than 100 books in the last 30 years of his life. (He obtained mention in past editions of Who's Who in America, Religious Leaders of America, and several similar publications—-but these are mostly subscription based, and reflect more on his desire to be known than his contemporary fame.) His works have remained in print more or less continuously since 1900.

*Anagarika Govinda
Books from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-author=Lama%20Anagarika%20Govinda&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3ALama%20Anagarika%20Govinda)

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anagarika_Govinda):

Anagarika Govinda (May 17, 1898–January 14, 1985), born Ernst Lothar Hoffmann was the founder of the order of the Arya Maitreya Mandala and an expositor of Tibetan Buddhism, Abhidharma, and Buddhist meditation as well as other aspects of Buddhism. He was also a painter and poet.

[...]

Govinda wrote several books on a wide variety of Buddhist topics. His most well known books are The Way of the White Clouds and Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism, which were translated in many languages. Some of his works such as Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism were written in German and were subsequently translated in English. His articles were published in many Buddhist journals such as the Maha Bodhi, and the German journal Der Kreis published by his Buddhist Order Arya Maitreya Mandala. Govinda considered The Inner Structure of the I Ching, the Book of Transformation as his most important book.

*Aldous Huxley
From Amazon(http://www.amazon.com/Aldous-Huxley/e/B000APWRRY)

Aldous Huxley (1894-1963) is the author of the classic novels Island, Eyeless in Gaza, and The Genius and the Goddess, as well as such critically acclaimed nonfiction works as The Devils of Loudun, The Doors of Perception, and The Perennial Philosophy. Born in Surrey, England, and educated at Oxford, he died in Los Angeles.

De Mille thinks that Castaneda stole some of his ideas from Huxley's work.

I also ran a couple of searches on the transcripts for anything to do with the subjects of seeing and intent.

From Session 13 July 2002 (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21637.msg227019#msg227019):

Q: Do the "centers" as described by Mouravieff relate at all to the idea of "chakras?"

A: Quite closely. In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - sexual chakra

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

From Session 20 August 2011 (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24722.msg285390.html#msg285390):

Q: (L) Okay. What's the next question? (Psyche) We were checking some statistics and we realized that full siblings of schizophrenics are nine times more likely than the general population to have schizophrenia, and four times more likely to have bipolar disorder. Is {name redacted} affected by this genetic tendency?

A: Oh indeed! However this requires explanation. First of all, the genetics that are associated with schizophrenia can be either a doorway or a barrier. Second, the manifestation of schizophrenia can take non-ordinary pathways. That is to say that diet can activate the pathway without the concomitant benefits.

Q: (Burma) I think that they're saying that schizophrenia could essentially be a way to be open to seeing other aspects of reality but diet can make it so it basically just makes you crazy without actually seeing anything.

A: Primitive societies that eat according to the normal diet for human beings do not have "schizophrenics", but they do have shamans who can "see".

Q: (Perceval) So a schizophrenic on animal fat is a shaman. (L) Well, wait a minute. There's something real subtle here. What I think you're saying is that when these genetic pathways are activated through wrong diet, it screws up the shamanic capacity?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, schizophrenia as we understand it or have witnessed it is a screw-up of something that could or might manifest in a completely different way on a different diet? Is that it?

A: Yes

Q: (L) And that's what you meant by not only a doorway, but also a barrier because the person who is on the wrong diet and has schizophrenia is barred from being able to be a bridge between the worlds. They kind of get lost. They're barred from having a normal life, and they're also barred from coming back from their delusions or whatever they're seeing even if they're not delusions. Maybe they’re seeing, but they're unable to help or do anything.

And from Session 9 December 1994 (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28389.msg353194.html#msg353194):

Q: (L) Is there any qualification that needs to be established for us to get the lottery numbers? Is there some thing we have to do, or be, or think, or say?

A: Completely pure intent, i.e. open.

Q: (L) Completely open?

A: Nonanticipatory.


Q: (L) Our anticipation constricts the channel when we ask for that kind of information?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) We have to be completely uncaring whether we get it or not, so to speak?

A: Happy-go-lucky attitude helps. As you were before.

Q: (L) So, as long as we are worried, tense, anticipatory, and attached to the idea, we constrict the flow?

A: Yes.

I seem to remember another session where the topics of intent and anticipation were discussed but I can't find it.
 

Mal7

Dagobah Resident
I have read books by a few of those authors (including Alexandra David-Neel, Lama Anagarika Govinda, Krishnamurti, Aldous Huxley), and found most of them interesting in their own right, but wasn’t struck by any close similarities in them to the ideas in Castaneda’s books. Maybe if I read them a second time with that question in mind, I might find something.

The list is becoming so diverse, that if Castaneda did draw on them as sources for his ideas, it could perhaps be said he was drawing on the general cultural capital of the times, and presenting his own synthesis, with his own particular emphasis on certain elements such as seeing and intent.

It is also possible some of Castaneda’s ideas did originate with himself, or were learned from a person he met out in the desert.

If you are choosing any of Lama Anagarika Govinda’s books to read, my personal favourite of his is The Way of the White Clouds. That is his most autobiographical book.
 
A

Archaea

Guest
Mal7 said:
I have read books by a few of those authors (including Alexandra David-Neel, Lama Anagarika Govinda, Krishnamurti, Aldous Huxley), and found most of them interesting in their own right, but wasn’t struck by any close similarities in them to the ideas in Castaneda’s books. Maybe if I read them a second time with that question in mind, I might find something.

The list is becoming so diverse, that if Castaneda did draw on them as sources for his ideas, it could perhaps be said he was drawing on the general cultural capital of the times, and presenting his own synthesis, with his own particular emphasis on certain elements such as seeing and intent.

It is also possible some of Castaneda’s ideas did originate with himself, or were learned from a person he met out in the desert.

If you are choosing any of Lama Anagarika Govinda’s books to read, my personal favourite of his is The Way of the White Clouds. That is his most autobiographical book.

I had a look at my local university library catalogue on the internet and it looks like they have some books by Lama Anagarika Govinda and Jiddu Krishnamurti, including the The Way of the White Clouds. However, they are in the library for "asian collection, rare books, theses" so I'm not sure what access is going to be like for these books, I'll have a look though.

I've never read any Aldous Huxley books, even though I consider myself to be a massive sci-fi nut. I had a look on the library catalogue for Huxley's books and they have some of them. They also have one of the books that De Mille say's that Castaneda used called The Doors of Perception, but Wikipedia say's that it's about a mescaline trip that Huxley took, so I think it's not a good way to go in terms of learning more about the topics of seeing and intent.

De Mille certainly thinks that Castaneda was drawing on cultural themes of the times when he was writing his books, and I think De Mille makes some good points, however, they are circumstantial. Personally, I think Castaneda's narrative is far to rich to be solely a product of his imagination, and the C's also say that the Don Juan character has some basis in reality, even if he is a composite character.
 

SMM

The Living Force
Going through things in the garage earlier, I found Castaneda's Journey to Ixtlan & realized I hadn't finished reading it from all those years ago. I found a few books in fact, alongside Marciniak's Earth: Pleiadian Keys to the Living Library & Huxley's The Doors of Perception.

Seeing how my perspective on Castaneda has changed over time could be worthwhile.
 

Haiku

Jedi Master
I know that there have been no posts here for a while, and the Castaneda validity topic is well documented here, but I was reading the news and this story came up …

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Somehow this reminded me of the scene in the ‘The fire from within’ where zippered-up life-less sleeping bags were groveling at his feet.

From the fire from within …

‘Don Juan was working his glow of awareness for my benefit. The glow suddenly shone on four or five threadlike filaments on his left side. It remained fixed there. All my concentration was on it; something pulled me slowly as if through a tube and I saw the allies, three dark, long, rigid figures agitated by a tremor, like leaves in a breeze. They were against an almost fluorescent pink background. The moment I focused my eyes on them, they came to where I was, not walking or gliding or flying, but by pulling themselves along some fibers of whiteness that came out of me. The whiteness was not a light or a glow but lines that seemed to be drawn with heavy powder chalk. They disintegrated quickly, yet not quickly enough. The allies were on me before the lines faded away.

They crowded me. I became annoyed, and the allies immediately moved away as if I had chastised them. I felt sorry for them, and my feeling pulled them back instantly. And they again came and rubbed themselves against me. I saw then something I had seen in the mirror at the stream. The allies had no inner glow. They had no inner mobility. There was no life in them. And yet they were obviously alive. They were strange grotesque shapes that resembled zippered-up sleeping bags. The thin line in the middle of their elongated shapes made them look as if they had been sewed up.

They were not pleasing figures. The sensation that they were totally alien to me made me feel uncomfortable, impatient. I saw that the three allies were moving as if they were jumping up and down; there was a faint glow inside them. The glow grew in intensity until, in at least one of the allies, it was quite brilliant.’

I want you to know that I almost split my gut the first few times I saw this news story thinking of Biden standing there with groveling lifeless (worms) entities all around him. I have gone so far as to put faces on each of the worms. Haiku …
 

Mark7

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I want you to know that I almost split my gut the first few times I saw this news story thinking of Biden standing there with groveling lifeless (worms) entities all around him. I have gone so far as to put faces on each of the worms. Haiku …
As an avid reader of CC in my youth, I cannot see much correlation between Biden's meetups with foreign leaders and what Carlos was writing about in the section of "The Fire from Within" that you mentioned. Admittedly, I have no idea what Mr. Casteneda was writing about there, but I have to suggest the possibility that your thesis here is perhaps "pattern recognition run amok", as discussed on this forum in regard to many subject matters where correlations between data points are augmented beyond the available evidence.
 
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