Chiropractic Nerve Function Chart.

[Jones]

Thought this chart might be helpful for those who are suffering various conditions, have attempted other means of dealing with them with limited success. I've seen chiropractors in the past, but went for a fresh assessment with a new chiro today to address some neurological symptoms I've been dealing with. Waiting on his report on the x-rays that he ordered, but at the initial assessment he has identified areas that might need attention. Thing is, I've been seeing a neurologist and they know there is something going on with my nerves, but their approach to reading images doesn't reveal any site of pathology in my thoracic spine. The chiropractor feels that I have misalignments at a number of levels at this stage, so am hopeful that adjustments might help. Wish me luck!

For those interested in polyvagal theory, note that the sympathetic ganglion is between T1 and T5 and the lines from the first pink diamond from the top of the page show how that area is sympathetically linked to the head, face and chest.

 

[Jones]

The chiropractor that I'm seeing has some posters in his practice that address emotional and stress and how that can impact the alignment of the spine. We can apparently subluxate ourselves as a stress or trauma response.

He had heard of polyvagal theory, but admitted that he doesn't know much about it. He did, however, say that he recognises sympathetic dominance patterns in spinal alignment. Said that he treats a woman with PTSD, and after her first few adjustments she mentioned that her night terrors had stopped. He can also tell now when he assesses her spine before each adjustment whether her night terrors have returned.

Last visit, he mentioned the SD Protocol (SD for Sympathetic Dominance). This protocol was developed by a chiropractor, Dr Wayne Todd, when he recognised the match between posture/spinal alignment, hormonal problems, gut problems, and neurological problems. I'm just early into following up on this material and at the moment it seems as though Todd has not taken PVT into account in his system as he is operating under the old paradigm of sympathetic and parasympathetic in tension with each other. Still it's helpful to know that posture can impact wellbeing and maybe even access to ventral vagal state.

At this point I can say that Todd, and my chiropractor, believe that a 'head forward' posture indicates sympathetic dominance and that 'tech neck' can actually put a person into a sympathetic state. There may be more postural clues revealed as I delve into the material. Dr Todd says that for each cm that the head deviates forward, the misaligning force on the spine increases by 4kg. This is an easy one to get an objective measure on. Have someone take a side-on picture of you standing beside a perpendicular upright like a post or door frame. Ideally you should be able to draw a straight line from ears, through shoulders to hips.

I imagine that misalignments due to stress or trauma might also create a feedback loop where misalignments trigger a warning that something is wrong internally and that might add to the overall given what Porges says about neuroception where the nervous system is on the lookout for welcome or warning signals internally, in the environment and between people.

I haven't read Dr Todds book yet, also available on amazon, but am watching one of his lectures on the video below. If interested, start the video at around 15:15 as before that they are dealing with tech problems etc. that haven't been edited out.

One of the other ways that I think paying attention to posture aside from health and ANS impacts might be helpful is that in the work on the Persistent Predatory Personality, apparently one of the clues that these people use to distinguish possible easy prey is posture and gait.

The other thing I like about the chiropractor that I'm seeing at the moment is that he can give very objective feedback. In the initial physical/neurological assessment he had protractor to measure and record angles compare the differences on each side of my body and to an ideal, as well as a ruler to measure and record distances. He requested xrays and has marked on them a blue line to show ideal alignment, and a red line to show my current misalignments and subluxations. All of these measurements will be repeated after 3 months.

He feels that I'm moving faster through the adjustments than what is common for my age group. Said if he saw my spine in a 20yo, he would be aiming for around 2 months of adjustments, in an 80yo around 2 years. So he figured initially that I'd need somewhere between 12 to 18 months of adjustments, but will revisit that after 3 months. As he's aware of sympathetic dominance, he has started with lighter adjustments to prevent too much sympathetic arousal. That process might be assisted by my knowledge and application of polyvagal theory. He is interested to know more about PVT so I will lend him Deb Dana's flip chart which is what she uses to teach her clients about the ANS through the PVT lens.

 

[aragorn]

Very interesting, thank you!

As he's aware of sympathetic dominance, he has started with lighter adjustments to prevent too much sympathetic arousal.

Can you elaborate on this part? Does this mean that if you adjust and 'snap' the spine too heavily and too often during a short period, that it will trigger a flood of sympathetic arousal?

I'm asking this, because in my late 20's I suffered a fall, landing on my back on a concrete floor. Due to the injury, I started visiting a osteopath, who recommended that I'd see him multiple times. He always did the same routine, which ended in a massive 'side twist push' of the spine (big cracking sounds!). After someting like 4–5 visits, I started getting extremely anxious, with many unpleasant memories surfacing, and also having panic attacks. I remember calling him to ask if this was common, to which he said yes, that this can happen.

 

[Jones]

Can you elaborate on this part? Does this mean that if you adjust and 'snap' the spine too heavily and too often during a short period, that it will trigger a flood of sympathetic arousal?

I think it could.

I did ask the chiro if he gets clients having emotional stuff come up after or during adjustments and he said that he doesn't tend to, though he hears other chiro's talking about that. He reckons he doesn't tend to attract clients who might have emotional releases because he isn't very demonstrative himself, but it also could be because he does adjust his approach if he seems to be stirring things up and since he's looking for signs of sympathetic arousal and he can feel it in the alignment of and muscle tension around the spine. He also seems to be very self aware and does communicate if he has momentarily lost focus - that's one of the things that Deb Dana stresses in the therapeutic environment. Because of neuroception, a clients nervous system will pick up on the change of state of the practitioner even if the client isn't totally consciously aware of that and the nervous system can respond to warning signals. So it's better to tell the client that it has happened so the client can relax.

The chiro did do one adjustment on my thoracic spine that sounds similar to what you describe, but it really hurt and the next time he decided on a different approach. In that approach he stood me up, stood behind me and wrapped his arms around my chest and under my arms and lifted me up and backwards. I still get the popping sound in that approach, but it doesn't hurt at all. In the first thoracic adjustment that seems similar to yours he said 'oh, I think you might get some nausea from that one.' I could be a slow reactor though because after the pain subsided, I felt fine. However, around 3 hours later I felt super nauseous - not to the point of actual vomiting, but had the sick taste in the back of my throat.

I guess any kind of body work has the potential to stir up emotional stuff and if body workers are at least attuned to sympathetic arousal if not totally PVT informed, then they may adjust approach to help clients navigate that.

In PVT, recovery outcomes are apparently better if a ventral vagal state can either be maintained or the client has the capacity to return to it flexibly. So Deb Dana's statement along the lines of 'slower and gentler is faster and stronger' could apply to body work where the client seems to either get sympathetically aroused or go into an overwhelmed shut down response. Also PVT says that even though organ or muscle disfunction might be the end result, the stressor or trauma is stored in the nervous system.

In the initial appointment the chiro explained that it's not just about the adjustment approach, but also the amount of force he puts behind the adjustment that can make it a light or heavy adjustment, so I might be in for bigger yet! He also explained that the popping sound isn't a bone on bone sound. If you dampen your hands and press your palms together then pull them apart suddenly, the popping sound you get then is similar to what is happening in the liquids and gasses in the joint.

Overall, I've felt very comfortable with him, though I have noticed a certain relaxation diminishing at times and I've been careful to be aware of that and counter it if I can.

 

[Jones]

My regular chiro is away and so have been getting treated by his stand in. While he has been doing the same adjustment approaches, he feels for tight muscles first and releases them before the adjustment. The muscle release was quite painful, but manageable. What I wasn't expecting was that he then put a lot more force behind the adjustments. Even though none of the adjustments themselves actually hurt, I could feel the shock to my nervous system and was feeling a bit teary and jittery afterwards. I didn't actually say anything to him, and figured that I could work my way through that shock. I felt as though what I really needed after that adjustment was a big bear hug. On the next visit he used less force and asked was that better, so he read the situation without me saying anything.

For those that are interested there is an app that assesses posture and misalignments of the spine. It works by having a picture taken with both front and side views and the app recognises target posture alignment points on the body and draws lines between them and calculates degrees of misalignment.

It's called APECS Body Posture Evaluation. Thet free version gives a basic analysis of posture and suggests corrective exercises that can be saved in a .pdf report. I don't know if the exercises suggested are the best as my chiro has given me different ones to what the app suggests.

A short intro video here:

 

[Arwenn]

My chiros are usually gentle, but I can sometimes feel emotional or just a bit discombobulated after a treatment. I definitely think adjustments release trapped emotions or stored survival stress. I make sure to be very kind to myself after an adjustment, helps to journal about stuff that comes up too.

One of Irene Lyon’s recent newsletters stated that:
“Trauma is everywhere in our world, but it is NOT in the event…it’s in the nervous system…This is why the same event can trigger different responses in different peoples’ systems.” Makes sense

Incidentally, I slept on a special chiropractic pillow last night & my neck feels much better. Our C6 gets hit hard with so much looking down at devices, & with my work in particular. I’m going to stick with it and see if that helps some of the chronic tension stored in the shoulders.

 

[Beau]

Incidentally, I slept on a special chiropractic pillow last night & my neck feels much better. Our C6 gets hit hard with so much looking down at devices, & with my work in particular. I’m going to stick with it and see if that helps some of the chronic tension stored in the shoulders.

A few years ago I had persistent neck issues from my job and at one point was going to a chiro twice a week. The worst time for me was always when I woke up in the morning. Many days spent at work basically unable to move my neck side to side. Getting a chiropractic pillow was a lifesaver for my neck. Best $50 I ever spent. Yes, stick with it. I think it'll do wonders. I also got a massage gun for my neck and trapezius. That thing was really helpful too. Once your neck muscles tighten, it seems to affect the shoulders and then down to the shoulder blade and spinal area.

 

[Arwenn]

I also got a massage gun for my neck and trapezius. That thing was really helpful too. Once your neck muscles tighten, it seems to affect the shoulders and then down to the shoulder blade and spinal area.

Cheers Beau, might look into one of those too, sounds like something I could definitely do with as well. What you wrote above is exactly what has been happening for me, with lots of tension in my neck, shoulders and upper back.

 

[Beau]

Cheers Beau, might look into one of those too, sounds like something I could definitely do with as well. What you wrote above is exactly what has been happening for me, with lots of tension in my neck, shoulders and upper back.

I don't know how helpful this comment will be but once I switched jobs, everything pretty much went away, even the GERD-like symptoms that started after the mask mandates at work in 2020. The ocular migraines stopped too. My body was definitely saying NO!

 

[Jones]

Bit of a penny drop moment at the chiro today.

He has had me doing some core strength exercises, that are different to the ones I've been doing with the physio, because posture check in revealed that the curve in my lumbar area was going a little too far in the right direction.

Today he also reminded me about belly breathing. I asked him how he resolves the conflict between core strength bracing exercises and belly breathing because when I was doing the stomach bracing exercise I was sucking my stomach in to do it. He explained that when bracing the stomach muscles for core strength exercises, do them with stomach extended - i.e. pushing belly out and holding the muscles in that position because that gives the diaphragm room to keep doing its thing properly and then the diaphragm is not also braced as part of the exercise if that makes sense.

Not sure if that is supposed to be the case with all core strength exercises or if it's even a common suggestion. In any case it seems to work the core muscles differently to what I've been accustomed to.

 

[TheTodd]

There are a bunch youtube videos on proper belly breathing while bracing your abdomen (or while weight exercising). Maybe they will you give you some answers. Here are some:

Generaly, I am not so sure about breathing while exercising, because many of us have very bad breathing habbits even with regular EE. But an interesting question, how do we breathe while exercising? Ok, when you are relaxed/seated, you breathe with your diaphragm and you can see the result, your belly protruding, but how to breathe exactly while exercising, when all of your muscles are tense? Some say with your diaphragm, into the belly with abdominal muscles contracted. But is that really with the diaphragm?

Some offer explanation of diaphragmatic breathing while weight lifting:

Here is mention that if you breath properly during exercises, your body increases flexibility:

And many many more videos on youtube speak of the same thing.

Many of them mention that breathing with your belly, and not your chest(!), is one of the most important things when lifting/exercising - because of core stability, spine position, safety, oxigen uptake, proper muscle activation and so on.

So, recommendations from these youtube videos are: breathe into your belly whenever possible (not just exercising) and when your abdomen is activated/contracted enough, your chest should rise also. And that should be diaphragmal breathing (very roughly speaking). Avoid shallow chest breathing.

 

[Jones]

Thanks for those videos @TheTodd, they help lots

 

[Jones]

He did, however, say that he recognises sympathetic dominance patterns in spinal alignment. Said that he treats a woman with PTSD, and after her first few adjustments she mentioned that her night terrors had stopped. He can also tell now when he assesses her spine before each adjustment whether her night terrors have returned.

At one of my session a fortnight ago, the chiro asked if I'd been under any unusual stressors because some of my adjustmenst seemed to have gone backwards since previous appointment. I couldn't remember anything significant at the time other than my great-nieces first birthday - I didn't really consider that stressful, but there was a lot of preparation for it. He said that maybe it was just that there was a lot to get done and that was enough to relapse into old patterns.

Later I remembered that there'd been an incident at work! Not a biggie in the scheme of things, but it did rattle me at the time. A co-worker lost her temper while changing some stock on the shelf and knocked it all to the floor in impatience or frustration after she fumbled and dropped a few things. In that moment I did feel a shift into fight/flight for a few minutes as a result of the sudden and explosive nature of the incident and walked away briefly to catch my breath, but it was quickly over as we worked to clean up the mess and finish the stocking and got on with the days work. All in all it was done and finished inside 10 mins and I'd forgotten about it.

In any case, the feedback from the chiro was super helpful to be able to pinpoint a personal example of auto subluxation.

He has decided to do a course in polyvagal theory from a Dr of Chiropractic who also has a Masters in Neuroscience, Dr Monique Andrews.