Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

Status
Not open for further replies.
is in a situation on May 6, See how many contracted military equipment and especially SPG under the Sloviansk. this night junta was made 2 artillery firing in City district.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsTyl9G3w7w
 
Lumiere_du_Code said:
is in a situation on May 6, See how many contracted military equipment and especially SPG under the Sloviansk. this night junta was made 2 artillery firing in City district.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsTyl9G3w7w

Thanks Lumiere and others for your updates. It really helps to have independent sources about what is going on in Ukraine.

I really feel for the people there. Nazi thugs supported by Kiev military attacking and killing civilians is horrific.
I don't know what Putin will decide to do. If he decides to send troops into the Ukraine hopefully it will be enough to end it quickly. 2 or 3 armored divisions and full air support maybe. I'd like to see them go all the way to Kiev but that would be risky indeed.

I am concerned also about this situation turning into nuclear war. No doubt nuclear forces are on a hair trigger right now. One miscalculation or error....

Mac
 
The situation is really depressing for the people there and I can totally understand that most of them do not want to be butchered and just stay home. I guess those who have a calling to resist will do that. Resistance does not have to be physical either - the information war may be much more important in the long run.

Also, I don't think that nuclear forces are on a hair trigger now. The whole reason this thing might not get out of control is that Russia is heavily armed with nuclear weapons. That is pretty much the only reason NATO is not going in for the kill as it usually does.

A few weeks ago, when Obama was accused at a press conference that he is preparing nuclear war against Russia, he said: "What the hell are you talking about?" And in this case I actually believe him.
 
The latest news:

Putin Calls For Postponement Of Referendums In East Ukraine

May 07, 2014

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on separatists in eastern Ukraine to postpone plans to conduct referendums on self-determination planned for May 11.
...

At the same time Putin called on authorities in Kyiv to immediately halt security operations in eastern Ukraine aimed at wresting control of several cities and towns from the pro-Russian separatists.
...

He also claimed Russian forces near the Ukrainian border had been pulled back but he added those forces had withdrawn to their areas of "permanent exercises."

There have already been reports that pro-Russian leaders in Donetsk said they would consider Putin's call to postpone the referendum.

There was still no word from the pro-Russian separatists in Luhansk, the other Ukrainian city where separatists planned to hold a referendum on self-determination.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-russia-referendum-putin-postponement/25376616.html
 
Thank you, Latvia!

Latvian European Parliament deputy suggests Right Sector be deemed terrorists

May 07, 2014

European Parliament deputy from Latvia Tatyana Zhdanok has requested fellow MPs to support her demand that the European Commission (EC) includes the radical movement Right Sector in the list of terrorist organizations, Zhdanok's press office told ITAR-TASS on Wednesday.

If the request is satisfied, bank accounts of this organization and all its members will be frozen, the radicals will not be able to enter EU countries, while governments of different countries will cooperate for political isolation and detention of the militants. However, Zhdanok believes “it is the Ukrainian interim government that is to bear the main responsibility for defeating the Right Sector, as it will have to finally draw a clear line between political organizations and far-right extremists”.

“This line is now vague, and a number of state posts are occupied by radicals of fascist views, their reputation besmirched with participation in violent actions against their opponents or law enforcement authorities,” Zhdanok added.

“After the appalling tragedy in Odessa, where Right Sector militants burnt 43 supporters of Ukraine’s federalization alive, the need to prohibit the Right Sector became evident. And an ordinary ban on its activities is inadequate here - there is a need to defeat this extremist organization, disarming its militants, arresting activists and court trial,” the deputy said.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730786
 
This, to me, exemplifies the madness, and unfathomability, of human life. Against the background of what is happening in Ukraine, and in particular what happened recently in Odessa, a football match took place today.

Din. Kiev4 - 0 Ch. Odessa
Or does it show the indomitable human spirit?
 
I've just finished the translation if the article published at http://www.discred.ru/news/zonderkomanda_vozmozhno_v_odesskom_dome_profsojuzov_vse_bylo_gorazdo_uzhasnej/2014-05-05-5599. Here its English translation.


Special force unit? It might well be that everything in the Odessa's Trade Union building was much more horrible...


.
Gradually it turns out that we know literally nothing about the tragedy occurred in Odessa. We know only the version which is presented in massmedia in two variations: either the people which have found shelter inside the Trade Union building were burnt by Right sector members or they burnt themselves „carelessly“. In fact there was NOBODY who died out of suffocation..

When the whole picture little by little was reconstructed, it turned unexpectedly out that... Anyway if you have strong nerves you can read it yourself...http://vvv-ig.livejournal.com/690116.html

When the number of the dead bodies and the number of the arrested people became public, the citizens of Odessa realized that the number of the missing people was thrice as many.
In the evening a new group of about 2000 Right sector members arrived for some „unknown purpose“ in Odessa. It turned out that they came not just to have a good time but to do something important - namely to clean up after heroic deeds of somebody who has a good time before them.
„It was just announced on TV, that in cellars of the Trade Union building other 160 dead bodies were found which apparently were killed by fire weapons and slashed by axes (!!!), women and children among them (!!!)“
These 2000 monsters encircled the building and are going to take out the dead bodies in plastic bags... The are trying to hide what the have done. There were 160 dead bodies and not 40 as claim the massmedia.
https://www.facebook.com/rabbozhi.rostislav/posts/310909642397774?fref=nf


"Dear citizens of Odessa! We have terrible news. There are more than one hundred missing people which you won't find neither in hostpitals nor in morgues... It is very hard for me to write it, yet they are not alive any more. 126 dead corpses were in the cellar of the Trade Union building. They were butchered there and were not died from fire. It was gestapo who did it. For this reason is the building blocked. About 2000 Right sector members recently arrived in Odessa in order to dispose of all the dead bodies. There are being token out of the building, cremated and buried. I DON'T KNOW what to do in this situation... And something else... Today on Monday mass burial of identified bodies are expected. They plan provocations right at funeral. Please be carefull. I appeal to the citizens of Odessa, arm yourselves... A war is broken out in Odessa, a real war! God please save all you from these monsters and eternal peace to all the innocent people who were brutally killed."
https://www.facebook.com/drugaya.ukraina/posts/650341771681866?fref=nf

A final (?) number of dead bodies in the cellar of the Trade Union building was cleared up a bit later: 217.

Journalist Anatolij Sharij:
„I interviewed a woman from Odessa who survived the slaughter in the Trade Union building. As soon as I get the video done I will publish it at the site From-UA.
The fact is: Right sector members and „football fans“ after having been rushed into the building, started to kill people directly, without further parley. Men were killed directly, women were either raped or brought into the cellar and killed there.
The most shocking was: „don't waste ammo, kill them barehanded“, people WERE BEATEN TO DEATH, they even continued to beat already dead bodies although the women shouted that they were not breathing any more. I haven't seen any guns by the people who was in the building. Yet almost every executor had fire gun.

https://www.facebook.com/anatolijsharij/posts/10203910596553730?stream_ref=10



Special force unit at work

In our information age it is pretty problematic to hide something. On one more video of the slaughter in the Trade Union building we can see that before the building caught fire a large group of militants came into it and was remaining there all the time: shortly before and during the fire, i.e. they were there not less than one hour. The building has just started to catch fire: at the entry and in the vestibule as on the third floor the nazis were waving with ukrainian flag, proudly demonstrating that the building was already occupied.

I see that all the conclusions should be made by police although it seems that the actions of police of Odessa aim not to investigate at all. Yet the issue with so many dead bodies in the building with bullet and incised wounds becomes pretty clear. During one hour the special force unit slaughtered everybody they could find – that's why some people were jumping out of the windows of the rooms that were not on fire and not even had traces of smoke – they were escaping not from fire but from the killers.

The Maidan propaganda persistently continues to declare that the actions of the incendiaries were provoked through somebody of the roof of the building who was shouting and throwing stones; yet after it becomes pretty clear that there were both killers and the their victims inside the building and it is hard to imagine that the victims had time and opportunity to throw someting at the people gathered outside the building – they were being slaughtered inside the building.

It is beyond any doubt that the committed crime was a crime against mankind. The only hope that this junta will be nevertheless destroyed and all the fotos and videos of this slaughter will serve as an evidence of the crimes of both cold-blooded executors who killed innocent people and the people who were giving the orders to do that...

Can anybody post it on Sott?

Many thanks
 
Laura said:
Ark says this site is interesting: http://www.discred.ru/

It's in Russian. Can anybody tell us what is going on there? Anything worth translating?

An interesting today's article from discred.ru "Political Judo: Putin Did Not Surrender or Betray South-East Nor Is He Scared".

http://www.discred.ru/news/politicheskoe_dzjudo_jugo_vostok_putin_nichego_ne_sdal_nikogo_ne_predal_i_sovsem_ne_ispugalsja/2014-05-08-5645

If noone is translating it yet, I will do it and post it here.
 
Thanks, Siberia, good compilations. Having watched many videos about the thing, it's shocking to notice how many of the most violent "nazis" are very young people. Teenagers who seem to enjoy beating up, and even killing people. I'm sure there has been some "grassroot" activities for long, encouraged by Washington, to brainwash these youngsters.
 
Aragorn said:
Thanks, Siberia, good compilations. Having watched many videos about the thing, it's shocking to notice how many of the most violent "nazis" are very young people. Teenagers who seem to enjoy beating up, and even killing people. I'm sure there has been some "grassroot" activities for long, encouraged by Washington, to brainwash these youngsters.
Yes, thanks Siberia.
They really look very young and very stupid full of adrenaline, ideal for be used by the elite. There are many stereotypes. It seems an identity that emerged from the joint between a strange nationalism and football hooligans. The ponerology already seems to be overly widespread. I draw much attention that they chose a nazi collaborator as a reference. Beyond that there are many truly nazi groups, it is amazing how this is possible knowing the history. It's like a total denial, a authoritarianism that imposed amnesia. Maybe the Ukrainians not had where to go, and resorted to a pro-nazi with the attempt to build their incipient nationalism and positioned against Soviet Russia. Since 1991, with a patient and horrible job in Ukraine, the elite slowly poisoned the people with the american dream, free markets and follow Europe to distance themselves from the hunger of Soviet debacle. But times change, and Russia has also changed.
It appears that still is needed defeat nazism definitely, it was / is not (only) the one of Hitler and gang.
 
Here is my translation of the article from www.discred.ru, as I've mentioned above. Maybe it could be posted on SoTT?
Political Judo: Putin Did Not Surrender or Betray South-East Nor Is He Scared

May 8, 2014

After meeting in Moscow with Swiss Foreign Minister and OSCE Chair, Didier Burkhalter, Russian President Vladimir Putin made a number of seemingly unexpected statements regarding Ukraine. Thus, he asked the South-East to postpone their referendum, supported president elections scheduled for May 25 and declared Russian troop withdrawal. Some of Putin’s opponents say this is the evidence of his betrayal of Ukraine’s South-East and his weakness in face of the sanctions. But in fact, by his declaration Putin pursued two important tasks.

First of all, he demonstrated to the world that Moscow is ready to follow Geneva agreement on de-escalation of tension in Ukraine. This allows for reducing the risk of new sanctions against Russia: now Washington will have to work even harder convincing Europe to continue their economic pressure. In witness of this fact, the market reaction was very positive: euro dropped below 49 rubles, dollar - below 35, and the stocks rose by 5%.

Besides, Putin induces Ukrainian coup government to react. Up to now, Kiev strategy was plain and simple: escalation of violence, confrontation with Russia and constant complaints to Washington and Brussels. This time Russian President complicated the matter: Kiev will have to respond to Moscow’s suggestions. And if Putin’s plan works out, the junta will either bury itself or deescalate the situation and consider federalization. Both variants are fine with Russia.

Let’s consider the major points of Russian President. He shelved referendum: “We are calling for southeast Ukraine representatives, supporters of federalization of the country, to postpone the May 11 referendum to create the necessary conditions for dialogue.”

Putin’s statement shouldn’t be considered as refusal to defend Donbass and support its separatists. Firstly, he actually bound the cancel of referendum to the cessation of “anti-terrorist operation”: “A mandatory condition to start this dialogue is to stop all violence - both with the use of armed forces, which is absolutely unacceptable, and illegal armed groups of radical elements.” By this statement he put Kiev in a very uncomfortable position. It is known that on May 6, Rada voted against the dialog, refused holding decentralization referendum and cast the communist party, the only one which insists on the dialog, away from the session. Now Rada will have to either change its position and overcome its russo-phobia or take public responsibility for confronting Putin’s peaceful solution. Note that international community members, including the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and OCSE Chair, supported Russia’s demand: “To stop violence and fire it would be important for top-level officials and persons bearing political responsibility to reject violence and stop all armed actions, intimidations and provocations,“ said Didier Burkhalter. Russia will benefit from whatever reaction of Kiev to this.

Secondly, it is only Kiev now who will have to react to Putin’s statement: federalists don’t have to listen to Russian president. The People’s Republic of Donetsk is not part of the Russian Federation, so if they still decide to hold referendum, it won’t be easy to blame Putin for this. Moreover, the President didn’t mentioned any sanctions for failing to follow his request and didn’t promise not to recognize the referendum results, if any. That’s why the federalists, who got Putin’s message, have already set forth conditions to Kiev under which they would be ready to refuse the referendum: “Immediate termination of “anti-terrorist operation,” as well as military and police troop withdrawal to their permanent garrisons; dissolution and disarmament of all illegal armed groups (all armed groups created after February 21 to be deemed illegal, including the National Guard and special police battalions); release of all political prisoners, including those who were arrested under falsified accusations,” said Rada Deputy Oleg Tsarev.

Now let’s turn to Putin’s statement regarding the president elections. Saying that “president elections are a move in the right direction” he demonstrated to the West and Kiev that Moscow is not going to confront the elections and possibly even ready to accept the results. But he also noted that “the elections will not solve the problem, if all Ukrainian citizens do not have their rights guaranteed after such elections… We suggest that direct dialog between Kiev and South-East is the major key to a positive solution.” Some political scientists consider this statement as a demand to adopt a new constitution. They also suppose that Moscow has possibly reached an agreement with the West that the elections should be postponed. Thus, Putin didn’t ask federalists to participate in the elections. Now he is free to maneuver. If the rights of the federalists will not be guaranteed, Moscow is free to protest.

In conclusion, Putin said that Russia withdrew its troops. “We are being told all the time that there are Russian troops on the Ukrainian border. We pulled back the troops, and they are currently stationed not on the Ukrainian border, but on the locations where they conduct their regular exercises on range grounds,” he said. Thereby Putin pursued one very rational task. Moscow has never intended intervention which would certainly entail rough sanctions and political consequences, not to mention a fratricidal war. Intervention is the last instrument to be used for supporting federalists. And now, it seems, other instruments work well. If the Ukrainian army couldn’t defeat rebels during several weeks, it can hardly do it now. In this situation it is politically and economically ineffective to have troops on the Ukrainian border.

Kiev understands Putin’s play and tries to neutralize his statements by any means. “It ill becomes you to deal in hot air, Mr. Putin, for you are a president of a large country. If Russia asks to postpone some referendum planned for May 11, I must inform Russian President that no such referendum has ever been planned. If terrorists and separatists who are supported by Russia got orders to postpone what hadn't been planned, that's their internal issue,” Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said. Nevertheless, if Putin’s statement has been agreed upon with Europe (which is very likely), Kiev is to wait in silence to learn its fate.

Gevorg Mirzayan
Sourse:

http://www.discred.ru/news/politicheskoe_dzjudo_jugo_vostok_putin_nichego_ne_sdal_nikogo_ne_predal_i_sovsem_ne_ispugalsja/2014-05-08-5645.

Original source: http://expert.ru/2014/05/8/politicheskoe-dzyudo/

PS: I found a picture which seems to perfectly reflect the title of this article :P

25ro2sj.jpg
 
l apprenti de forgeron said:
Aragorn said:
Thanks, Siberia, good compilations. Having watched many videos about the thing, it's shocking to notice how many of the most violent "nazis" are very young people. Teenagers who seem to enjoy beating up, and even killing people. I'm sure there has been some "grassroot" activities for long, encouraged by Washington, to brainwash these youngsters.
Yes, thanks Siberia.
They really look very young and very stupid full of adrenaline, ideal for be used by the elite. There are many stereotypes. It seems an identity that emerged from the joint between a strange nationalism and football hooligans. The ponerology already seems to be overly widespread.

Just like gangs are the perfect place for psychopaths, so too situations like this attract psychopathic individuals, as well as ponerized ones.

Siberia said:
PS: I found a picture which seems to perfectly reflect the title of this article :P

25ro2sj.jpg

That is a really good summary, I think. ;)

On another note, there have been some cracks in the mainstream propaganda reporting in Germany. This article is one of the most recent and powerful examples:

_http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/rolle-der-usa-in-der-ukraine-krise-die-egoistischen-staaten-von-amerika-2108267.html

The title is "The Egoistical States of America" and it was written by a German professor who was born in Teheran. It sums up how the U.S. is just following its own interest to the detriment of Europeans in this case.
 
Yup, Putin did it again. He out maneuvered the pro-escalation crew and put a very important wedge between EU (particularly Germany) and US. Putin really keeps reminding me of a modern day Caesar. He's not only a master of military war, but an all-around master. AND he cares about regular people's lives....
 
SeekinTruth said:
Yup, Putin did it again. He out maneuvered the pro-escalation crew and put a very important wedge between EU (particularly Germany) and US. Putin really keeps reminding me of a modern day Caesar. He's not only a master of military war, but an all-around master. AND he cares about regular people's lives....

Yeah, a smart move he did again! He probably anticipated that the anti-Kiev folks wouldn't postpone the referendum, but in this way he was able to show how - contrary to the main steam propaganda - Russia doesn't control or intervene. And by "pulling back the troops" he makes the other side look bad, since they are not stopping the violence. But I guess that the pathological types can't do this kind of peaceful decisions, they just know aggression and bullying.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom