Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

[Siberia]

I reckon Oleg can be assessed as part of this psyop:

http://rt.com/politics/186252-russian-maidan-yabloko-dollars/

Indeed. Those bastards leaded by Nemtsov & Co came here, to Novosibirsk, one month ago: to hold a meeting for.. federalization of Siberia! Those psychos are "unaware" that Russia IS a federation already for quite some time..

- I think you do not understand the irony that Nemtsov put into the word "federalization" saying about Siberia. He was referring to the same phony "federalization" as Moscow means when mentions Donetsk . In fact here is a question of separation of Donbass from Ukraine. And the same topic was about Siberia. I lived in Siberia 5 years and I know that the locals said - here in Siberia - and there in Russia.

Russia for them was all that to the west of the Urals. And you are kidding - or you really have not heard anything about the real Siberian separatism. And do not make a fool of Nemtsov. And do not try to represent the work of the FSB as "the will of the Siberians". It's not the same.

Oh, yeah? I was born here and have lived here for all my life, and you don't feed me with your BS. There is no irony here, only the US-paid puppets like Nemtsov, Kasparov, Navalny and others. Read our local forums - thousands of people stand against those bastards. If you communicated with some of the abovementioned zombies - that's your problem. I communicate with normal real people. We must all be FSB agents here according to your logic then.. FSB must be the largest and the mightiest organization to have the majority of Russian people as their agents!

Donbass people are sick of your fascism and yes, they do want to separate from you because of the creepy attitude of yours. I have read your comments about Crimea at FB: you treat it simply as a piece of land with no regard to the choice of its people. Most Crimeans are happy to re-join Russia, and we are happy to have them back with us. Most of them are Russians, the children of the Great defenders of Sevastopol from fascism. And you go ahead with your jealousy and greed. Dream on. Go sell your printers and forget about aviation, for you and your ilk have almost ruined it yourself already. Putin suggested you unprecedented contracts for aircrafts, but you have refused lately, for which decision I can see only one sober explanation: you're gonna need all the avia kerosene this winter so that you didn't freeze your fascist as*s out!

No more comments, you can go on with your absurd ideas further if you wish, I've said enough.

 

[SeekinTruth]

And do not make a fool of Nemtsov.

These types in Ukraine and Russia (and other places), including the likes of Yats, Porko, Turchinov, etc., etc., don't need any help to be made fools of, they make fools of themselves just fine - in fact the only thing they seem to be good at other than selling out and destroying their country. Evil clowns; evil, yes, but clowns nonetheless. Actually just like Hitler - very evil, but very clownish too.

 

[thorbiorn]

Apparently the cease-fire is only moderately effective as can be read on _http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/89798.html

Summary of the military events in Novorossia as of 09/07/2014

Last night at the front Novorossia passed under the auspices of the so-called "truce" which is actually not a truce at all.
The security forces continued to shell the outskirts of Donetsk using artillery and mortars. This fact is far from being the first fact that points to violating the peace protocol signed in Minsk by the Ukrainian side. Over the day the AFU violated the agreement about a cease-fire more than 10 times.
Besides shelling housing blocks in Donetsk, the units of the NAF located near the city were also shelled. The activity of the Ukrainian security forces on the Mariupol direction was also reported. Here the security forces attempted to pull military vehicles towards the city in order to help the forces thatare blockaded in Mariupol. Movements of "Grad" and "Smerch" were reported. Furthermore, the headquarters of the NAF report that movement of several tens of armored vehicles of the AFU was noticed in close vicinity from the settlement of Debalcevo.
The Nazis actively place their detachments into those settlements where their groups were weakened. The fascist detachments started to show up even in those places where they weren't present before. Some detachments are provided with the weapons from NATO countries (weapons made in the USA). Enemy forces are rotated. Furthermore, the Nazis open fire on settlements too. For example, today the Kiev fascists shelled the settlement of Spartak using artillery.
[...]

Kiev backed by US/EU is making ready for the next round. Are they following the tactics of the Israelis in Gaza?

 

[Ennio]

Use your own critical thinking by asking questions like this: Will the US really invest 5 billion dollars for just altruistic purposes in a country that has critical geopolitical location (or in any country to be honest)?

- Certainly, no. US has a pragmatic goal - not to let Russia to absorb Ukraine again - as there is an obvious Russian trend for such absorbing. And for not coming into a direct confrontation with Russia the best and low-cost way for US in that is to support the own Ukrainians will to live their own life - not under Russian rule.

Where is the evidence for the "obvious Russian trend for such absorbing" Ukraine - or any other nation for that matter? Russia did accept Crimea's own autonomous decision to be a part of the Russian Federation only after the Nazi-fascists were brought into power in Kiev. There was NO movement - political or otherwise - for Crimea to join the Russian Federation prior to this; it was a response made to the justified fear of being subjected to the racist, exploitative, and hateful new leadership brought into power by the U.S. Nothing more.

Also, you seem to be leaving out a whole other piece to this equation, and that is the U.S.'s geopolitical/military strategy - via NATO - to put it's "anti-missle" shields directly around the perimeter of Russia, which would include the area within Ukraine, a non-NATO member. But I suppose you see this very aggressive action, which has been building for several years now, as "non-aggressive," and a way to protect the rest of the world from Russia, eh?

 

[Laura]

Oleg, you don't seem to realize that the US/NATO beast is assimilating Ukraine and will chew it up like a stuffed turkey and spit out the bones. There will be nothing left for Ukrainians. It's all about stealing other people's land and stuff. That's what the USA does.

If you don't see that or you don't care, then go troll elsewhere.

 

[seek10]

- Certainly, no. US has a pragmatic goal - not to let Russia to absorb Ukraine again - as there is an obvious Russian trend for such absorbing. And for not coming into a direct confrontation with Russia the best and low-cost way for US in that is to support the own Ukrainians will to live their own life - not under Russian rule.

Unfortunately US pragmatism is always pump(including scaring) and dump. To see the fruits of it , you may want to read the following. Unfortunately many fall to it.

http://www.sott.net/article/285314-Ukrainian-Role-Reversal-and-Russian-Freedom-and-Democracy

To call the US and Western stance on Russian involvement in Ukraine 'hypocritical' really doesn't accurately describe the egregious mendacity exhibited by Western psychopaths in power. Welcome to the real world.

Here's the list of direct US military interventions in the affairs of other nations since 1945, as compiled by historian William Blum with some updates by me.

Greece, 1947-49:
Philippines, 1945-53:
South Korea, 1945-53:
Germany, 1950s:
Iran, 1953:
Guatemala, 1953-1990s:
Middle East, 1956-58:
Indonesia, 1957-58:
British Guiana/Guyana, 1953-64:
Vietnam, 1950-73:
Cambodia, 1955-73:
The Congo/Zaire, 1960-65:
Brazil, 1961-64:
Dominican Republic, 1963-66:
Cuba, 1959 to present:
Indonesia, 1965:
Chile, 1964-73:
Greece, 1964-74:
East Timor, 1975 to present:
Nicaragua, 1978-89:
Grenada, 1979-84:
Libya, 1981-89:
Panama, 1989:
Iraq, 1990s:
Afghanistan, 1979-92:
El Salvador, 1980-92:
Haiti, 1987-94:
Yugoslavia, 1999:
Iraq 2003- present:
Libya Part 2 - 2011
Syria 2011 - present

 

[Ennio]

Unfortunately US pragmatism is always pump(including scaring) and dump. To see the fruits of it , you may want to read the following. Unfortunately many fall to it.

http://www.sott.net/article/285314-Ukrainian-Role-Reversal-and-Russian-Freedom-and-Democracy

To call the US and Western stance on Russian involvement in Ukraine 'hypocritical' really doesn't accurately describe the egregious mendacity exhibited by Western psychopaths in power. Welcome to the real world.

Here's the list of direct US military interventions in the affairs of other nations since 1945, as compiled by historian William Blum with some updates by me.

[...]

And the U.S.'s "pragmatic" intervention in Ukraine is what - an exception to all these well-documented acts?? It seems like you do not have the context from which to objectively assess what is really happening, and by the sounds of all the "facts" you present here, your cup of understanding, is full.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

why are you wasting time arguing with "dill"? it's like communicating with the wall.
Here is an example:
russian.rt.com/article/49260
The head of the National Bank of Ukraine has accused the FSB (Federal Security Service of Russia) in undermining the hryvnia

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCy4xJ-EMaY

frames fron "ATO". militia destroyed military equipment. in the frame there are the remains of what was the people ...
about the video: junta mocks their own dead soldiers. Now they have come up with "news" that the monsters-terrorists hanged corpse Ukrainian soldier on high-voltage wires.

this is not war - this is a real massacre. and I do not support any of the parties. militias also puppets, playing on an invisible puppeteer behind the scenes. and this chopper stops. Only an infinite chaos, devastation and violence...

 

[Nević Nenad]

Oleg,

I live in Serbia. Stories that you are saying and the way you are saying them are exactly the same that we in Serbia were listening in 1999. and 2000. You look to me like copy-paste And that stories were told to us probably by the very same people who told them to you (I’m guessing that you do know who Srdja Popovic is). Unfortunately at that time, we were so naive to believe it. Now 15 years later we know the truth. Now thanks to that we are living in country devastated in all ways, socially, economically, culturally . . . you name it. Trust me, the truth is far worse that you will read even here on Sott (and Sott really did their investigative job as best as it can be done).

 

[Oleg NN]

Oh, yeah? I was born here and have lived here for all my life, and you don't feed me with your BS. There is no irony here, only the US-paid puppets like Nemtsov, Kasparov, Navalny and others

- I've perfectly realized that everyone of the true Russians adore Putin. It has already become a part of the Russian mentality. And those few nasty Russians that do not like Putin , of course, are being paid by the CIA for their unnatural dislike - $ 100 for each day of the dislike. Because not to love Putin even for 2-3 days is real torment for the Russian.

And all Russians would be happy to learn that the Russian troops finally invaded the Ukraine. And it is very strange that the Kremlin's still hiding thie news.

In fact, every Russian would be glad to die in the battle for the DNR, LNR, Girkins, Borodays and other sturmbannführers of the Rossian World. For all of them:

_http://argumentua.com/sites/default/files/DNR.jpg?1400513689

And the real happiness for the Russians is to die in a battle for that and to be buried in this glorious work in some quiet corner of the Ukrainian land. Like this -
_http://storage1.censor.net.ua/images/f/0/5/e/f05e522be20b128271e5a3abe38cc979/639x960.жпг

- or these - very fresh under Lugansk - _http://censor.net.ua/video_news/301792/vozle_luganskogo_aeroporta_poyavilos_massovoe_zahoronenie_boevikov_zasypannye_transhei_gusto_utykany

Read our local forums - thousands of people stand against those bastards. If you communicated with some of the abovementioned zombies - that's your problem. I communicate with normal real people. We must all be FSB agents here according to your logic then.. FSB must be the largest and the mightiest organization to have the majority of Russian people as their agents!

- Yes, I have read it all already. It was not necessary to read it for a long time. I quickly discovered that it is enough to read one local of yours to get to know what the next 100 Russian people will write in the topic. An amazing unanimity! 150 years ago, a giant of Russian thought - this one - _http://citaty.info/files/portraits/12637.jpg - came up with a great idea - "On the implementation of oneness of mind in Russia"

Now it seems that another great Russian named Putin successfully introduced the idea into reality. And thanks to that I even can not read your messages, too! It's quite enough to read a month or two ago what some other Russian wrote about the issue - and I get a wonderful possibility to predict what you personally will write here in a month or two.

And the dialogue with the Russians on all of these topics has become extremely easy and enjoyable!

Donbass people are sick of your fascism and yes, they do want to separate from you because of the creepy attitude of yours.

- yesss! The Donbass people are so sick of our fascism that right now they simply flooded Kiev! Recently I got 4 resume for a position on the manager's in our Kiev company during one day. And all 4 candidates were from the Donetsk region. Prior to that I conducted interviews with three candidates for the job - and they were also from Donetsk. One of them said that their whole company moved from Donetsk to Kiev. Perhaps because of that property and rent prices in Kiev are now growing - despite the war and crisis. Do you know where in Ukraine are the most expensive apartments? You just do not laugh - in Odessa! In the Odessa itself, which is filled with the "fascists of the Right Sector" who keep on bulling there over the poor inhabitants of the city!

In truth, the people of Donetsk region even earlier were not very eager to separate from the Ukraine. For the millionth Donetsk the separatist rallies rarely collected more than three to five hundred people - even if we assume that there usually were two-hundred noisy visitors from Russia.

And that's why the local "referendums" for the separation there failed so badly. And after some of the people in the region have lived separately from Ukraine - from its pensions, salaries, its peace and tranquility - and got to know the new realities and realized that Putin was going to arrange in their region another Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Transnistria - the local separatism rapidly started to turn sour. And after that Putin had to send out his tanks and a bit airborne brigades - just to revive local separatism.

And now people in Mariupol got ready to devent their city from Putin troops. Or you TV keeps silence of that?

 

[Aeneas]

It is clear that Oleg is not open to new information or responds in a constructive way. For him it is black and white and instead of focusing on Kiev junta and their wholesale destruction of Ukraine, then he chooses to blame it all on Russia.

One would think that the experience that Avala relates to, about how Serbia was destroyed should be an eye opener, but no that is not the case. Oleg appears to be an authoritarian follower by his words at least and behaviour so far.

Defending war crimes, bombing of hospitals, schools, residential areas with phosphor bombs, defending the Odessa massacre and defending the current Kiev leadership, which only has hate towards Donbass and wish to destroy it seems to be okay with Oleg, who prefers to say it is all just lies and Russian propaganda and that Russia is at fault for everything. The US, the EU countries and the caliph of the Islamic state agree that Russia is evil, so it must be true. But with friends like those, who need enemies.

And the fate that await those who willfully closes their eyes to monstrocities is not to be desired!

 

[Oleg NN]

.... Most Crimeans are happy to re-join Russia, and we are happy to have them back with us.

- you mean the "Crymean referendum", no? It was on March, 16. And why on the мedal "For the return of the Crimea", which Putin awards his warriors and authorities, the interesting dates of the military operation are engraved - 20.02.14-18.03.14?

It turns out that the "referendum" was carried out 3 weeks after the start of Russia this operation?

And the February 20 is the date of two another extraordinary events. Date of the massacre in Kiev, when Yanukovych snipers killed several dozen of protestants from the Maidan. And the date of arrival at Kiev airport of the group of FSB officers led by FSB Colonel-General Sergei Beseda - and Putin's Personal assistant - Surkov.

In addition to them, by the day of the massacre in Kiev have already been:

From the Border Service of the Russian Federation:

1 Colonel Vladimir Usanov
2 Konstantin Groşev
3. Sergey Malov
4 Evgeny Mirolov
5 Andrey Chelishev
6 Sergey Antipin
7 Vitaly Belan
8 Alexander Kalitka
9 Ilya Chervjakov
10 Alexander Nikolaev

From the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service:

1 Lieutenant-General Mikhail Ionov
2 Colonel Andrey Golubev
3 Colonel Sergey Minayeff

From the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces:

1 Colonel Alexander Naumov
2 Colonel Alexander Samuli
3 Colonel Cyril Kolyuchkin
4 Captain 2nd Rank Eduard Belashev
5 Colonel Pavel Popov

From the FSB:

1 General-Major Gennady Sviridov
2 Colonel Viktor Chashchin

Maybe you can explain the reason for the strange presence in Kiev of such a large group of Russian experts of a very specific profile in the most tragic day of post-war history of our city?

Most of them are Russians, the children of the Great defenders of Sevastopol from fascism

- Really? And what about the descendants of Russian immigrants, which Moscow authorities brought there from Russia after all Crimean Tatars and Crymean Greeks were deported from there in 1944? No Germans at that time in the Crimea. Neither the German invaders or local Germans who settled in the Crimea together with Russian since the late 18th century. They local Germans who played a solid role in Crymean economy and culture were deported in 1941 - and Moscow never allowed them to return to their homes after the war.

In 1944 it was a barbaric deportation of small peoples of the USSR - Crimean Tatars, Crimean Greeks, Kalmyks, Balkars, Karachays, Meskhetian Turks, Karapapaks, Chechens and Ingushs, which was reminiscent of the worst pages of Nazi ethnic practice during the Second World War.

And you go ahead with your jealousy and greed. Dream on.

- Jealousy to whom? To the inhabitants of your Putinland? Are you kidding me? Ukrainians live on their own lands. And you Russians could just dream of the lands of such fertility and natural conditions. This is not a loam and permafrost of your Russia.

And what kind of greed are you talking about? Maybe - the Ukrainians got on Russia and took a piece of its national territory this year? Maybe - it is Ukrainians who made ​​a real nightmare in Chechnya in the course of the colonial policy of tsarism 19th century and killed about a hundred of thousands of local residents, no? Most of them were killed in the land of their Chechen ancestors that have not been Russian until 19 century. Then the whole world saw how Russia deals with separatism in its territory. And along the way Russia went out of climbs to initiate separatism in the lands of its neighbors. Maybe - it is Ukraine tore big chunks of Georgia in Abkhazia and South Ossetia - and Moldova in Transnistria - and put there their garrisons and their warriors?

In Crimea, within one and a half century you arranged a real multi-ethnic pogrom, and now cry that "Crimea is Russian!". I recall that at the time of the Crimean War (mid-19th century) less than 10 thousand Russian lived there.

Go sell your printers and forget about aviation, for you and your ilk have almost ruined it yourself already. Putin suggested you unprecedented contracts for aircrafts, but you have refused lately, for which decision I can see only one sober explanation: you're gonna need all the avia kerosene this winter so that you didn't freeze your fascist as*s out!

Your version of my profile is a little outdated and not correct. I've never been a sales manager. And the level of a manager I outgrew more than 15 years ago. As for the aviation, take a trip to any of your airport and a look at what the Russians are flying now - and if there are many airliners built in Russia there.

Just do not forget to take a Validolum.

Russia had a real chance to make a breakthrough in transport aircraft building together with Ukraine. But the policy always walked in front of your business, and show-off - ahead of common sense. Therefore, you did not let our aircraft industry to rise from its knees and ruined your own. I know that well from my friends that ended up MAI - Moscow Aviation Institute, and communicate with their former classmates since. And I have not heard that Ukraine produced aircrafts or aircraft engines on your license. But on the Ukrainian license Russia produces our new AN-148 and first-class Ukrainian engines.

No more comments, you can go on with your absurd ideas further if you wish, I've said enough.

 

[Oleg NN]

Oleg, you don't seem to realize that the US/NATO beast is assimilating Ukraine and will chew it up like a stuffed turkey and spit out the bones. There will be nothing left for Ukrainians. It's all about stealing other people's land and stuff. That's what the USA does.

If you don't see that or you don't care, then go troll elsewhere.

Laura, we can compare. We can compare how the South Koreans live who went after the Americans at the time - and how the North Koreans live since they went after the Russians. We know how much money it took West Germans that were under the heel of the damned the American occupiers to hold on to their level the East Germans, that more than 30 years lived in an embrace with the Russians brothers.

We know perfectly well that the Western Ukrainians were very difficult to live in 1920-30s under the Polish power. And we know at the same time that they did not have a monstrous famine that Moscow arranged for the rest of the Ukraine in 1932-33.

And that Poles did not massacre Ukrainian intelligentsia and did not spend the planned executions in 1938 under the order showing how many thousands of people need to be shot in a certain our region.

America still has not done anything really wrong for Ukrainians. I'm pretty well aware of Ukrainian history, and did not find a single fact of a different
kind. Maybe you know better?

America does not say now that Ukraine is a "native American land," and that the Ukrainians as a nation do not exist, and their language is the invention of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff, etc - as they say in Russia the last decade. This is not America invaded our Crimea and sent its warriors and thousands tons of its murderous weapons to the part of our land that is at war. Not American weapons and not Americal soldiers kill Ukrainian soldiers at the moment.

So we have something to compare. And if you in our resistance to the onslaught and powerful Russian military aggression against Ukraine will find us a better assistant than America - we immediately look at your proposed candidate.

And while we are remember very well how it looked the Moscow power on Ukrainian soil. And which way the whole "Moscow project" for Ukraine recently ended. It finished with a complete system collapse.

So it's rather difficult to scare us with America. We've got quite another uninvited guests.

 

[Oleg NN]

Here's the list of direct US military interventions in the affairs of other nations since 1945, as compiled by historian William Blum with some updates by me.
...

- I have seen the "American list" of the sort before, thank you. And have you seen the Russian one like that? It also looks impressive (in Russian)

_http://ehorussia.com/new/node/761

And the interesting comment at the bottom -

That's what drew the attention today, looking at the dates. My great-grandmother died at eighty-three. We then fought in Afghanistan. My cousin died in the ninety-two. We then fought in Tajikistan. He died there, in fact. My grandfather died in the ninety-fifth. We then fought in Chechnya. My father died in the ninety-sixth. Chechnya. My grandmother died in two thousand and eight. Georgia. My mother's brother died in two thousand fourteenth. The war in Ukraine.

None of my relatives have died in peacetime.

In this country, there was no peace.

In this country - only short breaks between the wars.