Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

[Siberia]

Re: the assassination attempt.

It happened when Zakharchenko and Kiev agreed about the first exchange of captives. His big mistake was that he decided to meet Kiev representatives himself. I hope that he has learned his lesson now.

Kiev, apparently, decided to make a show of it and invited Ruslana, a famous Ukrainian pop star, to negotiate with Zakharchenko. The girl is also well-known in the West as the winner of Eurovision 2004 with her Wild Dances. In Ukraine, she is a famous pro-Maidan activist. In 2004, she actively supported Victor Yuschenko’s president election campaign. She promoted the ideas of Orange Revolution in every possible way, including making epic videos such as Dance with the Wolves for example. Hillary Clinton was her best friend:

As you see, it’s hard to find a better person to represent progressive Kiev in their talks with the “Eastern barbarians.” Imagine the picture: brave and gorgeous Ruslana returns from Donbass with liberated Ukrainian soldiers – what a show that could be for the pro-Kiev media space. But suddenly Ruslana returns and starts telling a completely different story about Donbass: she says that they are normal people who have nothing to do with terrorism. Ooops.

Here is my translation of what exactly she said (transcript of a VIDEO interview coverage from LifeNews):

“I came to Donetsk and saw something which I never expected to see. It hit my mind completely. I saw the shelling of our own people!” Exclaimed Ruslana. “We must simply stop the fire, stop the war and bloodshed. And if politicians think otherwise, it means that there is some chemistry, some dirty games.”

Ruslana thinks that Ukrainian journalists must visit the battle fields to find out the truth.

“If you are so brave, then let’s go with me next time”, Ruslana invited one of Kiev reporters. “Then you will see everything by yourself and will understand me.”

The artist also told that the car in which she was sitting with the prime minister of DPR Alexander Zakharchenko went under shelling. “It’s impossible to understand who is shooting, whose bullets those are. But what is perfectly clear is that we are shooting our own people. I used to shout louder than anyone that we have no civil war. I was wrong”, Ruslana confessed to the journalists.

Ruslana also said that she was disappointed with the new Ukrainian leader Petro Poroshenko. She described her participation in the meeting near the President’s administration building in Kiev on August 28. According to LifeNews, the meeting was made by the relatives and friends of the soldiers who were surrounded in Ilovaisk.

The singer was outraged that Poroshenko’s people never came out to talk to the meeting participants.

“They must communicate with people, they must explain their position. Maybe I will say something shocking now, but nevertheless: Poroshenko refused to hear me when I was standing near the president’s administration. But when I arrived at Donbass, Zakharchenko heard me”, she said.

Ruslana Lyzhychko, a Eurovision 2004 winner, was an active participant of Maidam protests. In early December she threatened to burn herself on the Kiev’s main square, unless “the country changes.” For her active participation she was proclaimed the “symbol of Maidan.” In February, Ukrainian politicians promised her a place in the new parliament.

So, the girl realized that Poroshenko is a liar and that there is a real war in the East of Ukraine. She also realized that Poroshenko is doing nothing to save the surrounded soldiers. I just wonder, if she also realized that the shelling of the car, in which she was sitting and talking with Zakharchenko, was not accidental either? Has it ever occurred to her that the same people who sent her to talk to him were later trying to kill both of them?

Obviously not. She had a good chance to see who is who, but she preferred to continue “dancing with the wolves”: on September 22, she organized an “anti Putin” meeting near the Consulate General of the Russian Federation in San Francisco. She also started actively backpedaling and claiming that Russia is lying about her impressions from meeting with Zakharchenko. Lying? But what about her own VIDEO interview then?

Returning to the subject of attempt to assassinate Zakharchenko: just think who are those people who first sent a young woman to him in order to release captive soldiers and then were trying to kill both her and him? Do they care about her, about captive soldiers or about anyone at all? Luckily, they both survived, only the driver was seriously injured. Zakharchenko invited her for a car trip to show her what was really going on in Donetsk. He showed her ruined schools and hospitals. She admitted herself that they were fighting not terrorists, but their own people. She admitted that Poroshenko is a big liar. Why condemning Putin then? In the interview partly transcribed above she mentioned that both sides don't want to fight each other. But someone is constantly provoking the fight: some snipers shooting, some shellings out of nowhere. She now thinks that it is Putin who is provoking further conflict. Yeah, sure.

 

[Aeneas]

So, the girl realized that Poroshenko is a liar and that there is a real war in the East of Ukraine. She also realized that Poroshenko is doing nothing to save the surrounded soldiers. I just wonder, if she also realized that the shelling of the car, in which she was sitting and talking with Zakharchenko, was not accidental either? Has it ever occurred to her that the same people who sent her to talk to him were later trying to kill both of them?

Obviously not. She had a good chance to see who is who, but she preferred to continue “dancing with the wolves”: on September 22, she organized an “anti Putin” meeting near the Consulate General of the Russian Federation in San Francisco. She also started actively backpedaling and claiming that Russia is lying about her impressions from meeting with Zakharchenko. Lying? But what about her own VIDEO interview then?

Returning to the subject of attempt to assassinate Zakharchenko: just think who are those people who first sent a young woman to him in order to release captive soldiers and then were trying to kill both her and him? Do they care about her, about captive soldiers or about anyone at all? Luckily, they both survived, only the driver was seriously injured. Zakharchenko invited her for a car trip to show her what was really going on in Donetsk. He showed her ruined schools and hospitals. She admitted herself that they were fighting not terrorists, but their own people. She admitted that Poroshenko is a big liar. Why condemning Putin then? In the interview partly transcribed above she mentioned that both sides don't want to fight each other. But someone is constantly provoking the fight: some snipers shooting, some shellings out of nowhere. She now thinks that it is Putin who is provoking further conflict. Yeah, sure.

Yes, it is interesting how the brain can do a double-flip and with selective memory can return the person to the previously accepted worldview. The shock was obviously not big enough and the exposure time to little for it to have a lasting effect. After the incident in Donbass, she would have returned to Kiev, where the lies rule and her friends and family would have told her that she had just been having a nightmare, but that reality reallywas what she believed beforehand.

Sad, but all too often people have little glimpses of the truth and then they after a while return to the lies as though such glimpses never happened. Normalcy bias at work. Important to be able to detect this trait in ourselves when it happens. For that we probably need daily shocks.

 

[thorbiorn]

There is an interesting statement in this short translation by Kristina Rus

Right Sector deputy wants to execute deputies and ministers at a stadium
The soldiers of the Ukrainian battalions fighting in Donbass regard the behavior of politicians in Kiev as a betrayal and are ready for mass shootings. This was announced on air on TV channel Inter by the newly elected Verkhovna Rada deputy Borislav Bereza from the Right Sector, reported 'Politnavigator'. For the place of future executions he picked a stadium, apparently as analogy with Pinochet's practice.

According to Bereza, today Ukraine cannot count on the help of the EU and the US with the crisis in Donbass and reforms. "We are aliens on this celebration of life," - said Bereza. He said that a scenario of the return of Ukrainian soldiers to Kiev and restoring order with the forces of the army becomes more and more realistic.

"Soldiers returning from the zone of the ATO , who did not put down their weapons, together with the miners, will come on Friday, during the session of the Parliament with the members of the government, and will chase the deputies and the ministers down Grushevskogo street to Lobanovsky stadium for execution", - said the spokesperson of the Right Sector.

Regarding the statement in red: if he really said that and wasn't joking then for what kind of people could this be true? The details is for an expert, but I think there are a couple of check marks on the following lists:
_http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html
_http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/the-list-of-psychopathy-symptoms/

 

[thorbiorn]

For a fuller picture of the intentions of Borislav Bereza and his friends in the Right Sector there is a translation by Kristina Rus on _http://fortruss.blogspot.dk/2014/11/confessions-of-right-sector.html?spref=fb It was posted on his FB on June 1.
Recently I watched the documentary called The Syrian Diary on youtube. If Bereza gets his way, there will be a Ukrainian Diary with scenes of demolished cities. One could say that Diary is being written, as shelling of civilian targets in Eastern Ukraine continues.

 

[thorbiorn]

Today there was this message on Colonel Cassad:

1. Strelkov replied to the questions on the famous "secret" forum:

[...]

Question: You'd better promote your return into Novorossia and an upcoming victory over the coffins who promote themselves on the pieces of "Country 404"
Answer by I.I.: I would be happy to, but I cannot and I don't want to introduce additional chaos where everything "couldn't be worse" already. By this I mean the political rear of the militia. Returning means to provoke a sharp conflict with the newly elected officials.
No matter what they are – they are supported by Russia. Standing against them without "muscovite" support means to enter a union with the Ukies, who dream of the internal conflicts in Novorossia.

Question: The most important thing is – what's next?
Answer by I.I.: War is next, what's not clear? Just like it continues now. The question is only how long it will continue and what will be its intensity. The Ukies are waiting for the moment when the return of vacationers will be absolutely impossible. And for now they'll keep hammering Donbass "into the Stone Age" by terrorist shelling.

Question; Does the militia have the ability to start an offensive or they'll keep just snapping back?
Answer by I.I.: Time will show. For now the militia cannot engage in large-scale offensive. Why – I cannot explain openly. There are many factors here, and the human factor is not the least important.

Question: Do you think that large-scale shipments of weapons from the West are possible? And open participations by the Western military units? (not the contractors and "wild geese", but regular units)
Answer: For now neither Europe nor the USA are ready to send their soldiers to the Ruin. What will happen in the Spring is not clear. By that time they may be ready. The Ukies have sufficiently many weapons of our, Soviet, origin. The Kharkov tank factory repairs armored vehicles in three shifts. The number of small arms in the warehouses are sufficient for 10 of the current "ATO forces", if not more. The West will provide (already provides) the drons, means of communication, radio-electronic warfare, and so on.

Comment: "And for now they'll keep hammering Donbass "into the Stone Age" by terrorist shelling" That is indeed what the evidence on the ground is indicating. And Cassad translation continued:

2. A warning _http://warday.su/lenta.html#dt0201 (in Russian) by the military intelligence of the DPR.

The intelligence structures of Novorossia receive the information about a large-sacle massive provocation by the AFU, which is directed at the direct collapse of the Minsk agreements and at discrediting Novorossia in the eyes of the international community.
The "Right Sector" militants dressed into old Russian camo ("Flora") with the Vostok battalion insignia arrived into Karlovka (DPR) for this purpose.
It is expcted that the disguised terrorists will carry out a slaughter of civilians, which will be blamed on the DPR military.
Such methods were widely used by the OUN-UPA bandits during the Great Patriotic War and in the post-war period with the goal of discrediting the partisans and later the Soviet law-enforcement officials in the eyes of the local population.

We ask for maximum spreading!

Maximum spreading to minimize the possibility and the damages, I guess. Even if the cease fire is still in place, the exchange of fire is intensive. The following page is in Russian, but if you put into a translation machine, I used Google, one gets an idea. In addition to short reports there are many videos. The translated part begins with an advert for a site with information about how to repair houses, much needed in times of pretty continuous shelling of civilian areas.

Tape military reports
Useful articles on furnish and repair of apartments blitz-remont.ru and how are structured house with his own hands,
Source: bv-ryazan.ru.A the most interesting things you find on megadl.ru.

22:45 As of 22-40 (on MSK) near Avdeevka could hear artillery work and APU fire breaks from Ukrainian artillery positions from the New Russia. Also receives information about what is heard and automatic weapons.

22:36 Colonna Grad APU. Photographed 07/11/2014. Location shooting is unknown.

22:34 It is reported that about 22-30 (in MSK) in the region of Donetsk was fixed the Su-25.

22:29 From about 19-00 (in MSK) for 3 hours in the area could hear Gorlovki use of artillery. It is also reported that the settlement Novoluganskoe left without gas supply as a result of damage to the APU pipeline.

22:25 Around 22-10 (in MSK) APU artillery near Debaltseve start firing. The purpose of fire is still unknown.

22:18 Webcam Donetsk online. At the moment, heard the roar of the artillery of active work and frequent explosions and powerful volleys.

This is just a fraction of the reports on that page, as the excerpt only covers a period of 30 minutes. The conflict just moves on and on. Are there going to be 100.000+ victims of the EU/US//NATO/Western Oligarch experiment in Ukraine? The first snow has fallen, and it will get colder, colder than in Libya and Syria.

 

[Niall]

Are there going to be 100.000+ victims of the EU/US//NATO/Western Oligarch experiment in Ukraine?

I think other things will intervene before things get that bad there.

One possibility: Kiev will break the terms of the Brussels gas deal (ie, by withholding debt payment or by siphoning off gas for illegal trading). Russia would then shut off gas transit to Ukraine (and therefore also through it to the rest of Europe) mid-winter, and not turn it back on again until the EU backs autonomy status for Donetsk and Lugansk.

Another possibility: Ukraine undergoes sovereign debt default, at which point some arrangement of joint EU-IMF-Russian management of the economy kicks in and 'anti-terrorist operations' - whether official or covert - become much harder to conduct.

Or maybe both, first one then the other, each one compounding the reality for EU leaders that there's no way around the 'immovable object' facing them: they must work with Russia to solve this.

 

[thorbiorn]

Are there going to be 100.000+ victims of the EU/US//NATO/Western Oligarch experiment in Ukraine?

I think other things will intervene before things get that bad there.

One possibility: Kiev will break the terms of the Brussels gas deal (ie, by withholding debt payment or by siphoning off gas for illegal trading). Russia would then shut off gas transit to Ukraine (and therefore also through it to the rest of Europe) mid-winter, and not turn it back on again until the EU backs autonomy status for Donetsk and Lugansk.

Another possibility: Ukraine undergoes sovereign debt default, at which point some arrangement of joint EU-IMF-Russian management of the economy kicks in and 'anti-terrorist operations' - whether official or covert - become much harder to conduct.

Or maybe both, first one then the other, each one compounding the reality for EU leaders that there's no way around the 'immovable object' facing them: they must work with Russia to solve this.

I hope you are right, because as it is, the picture is not pretty. Below is a clip put up by "Olenka de L", showing scenes from Kirovsk, a residential area where a house has been hit badly. As a result of the attack a couple of people died. A man grieves and curses because he has lost his wife since 33 years and his ten year old granddaughter too.

http://<iframe width="640" height="...ge" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

These videos do not appear often in West European Press, but maybe they ought to. Should people not know about the suffering their governements help to generate?

Finally and mainly for the record ther is a very extensive resource in Russian about the situation in Ukraine with links to many bloggers etc I found the link on the wall of Kristina Rus _http://ruxpert.ru/%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%81
Maybe I should addJust a note that the paid version of Malwarebytes did not like the address, but why I don't know. The site has not much graphics, it is like a wiki type of page.

 

[Aeneas]

This is just a fraction of the reports on that page, as the excerpt only covers a period of 30 minutes. The conflict just moves on and on. Are there going to be 100.000+ victims of the EU/US//NATO/Western Oligarch experiment in Ukraine? The first snow has fallen, and it will get colder, colder than in Libya and Syria.

The question is if we are not getting close to 100.000 death already. I remember reading figures of an estimated 40.000 UAF deaths up to August. We don't know much about NAF casualties, but the leader of Donetsk makes it clear that they are significant too. Then we have all the ciivilians who have died because of shelling and bombing AND pure liquidation and the subsequent mass graves. We heard for example about ethnic cleansing taking place once the UAF took over Slavyansk after retreat. Then the numbers killled across Ukraine such as in Odessa by death squads and nazi liquidation teams. Communists, Russian speakers, former members of Yanukovych have been particular vulnerable and just people who dared to say no to Nazis and Nazi ideology.

I think we could well have reached 100.000+. The question might be how many more will die in this country where lots of tensions rule, before it finds peace and stability?

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

of page Anatoly Shariy in FB:

You remember I said that Odessa died for me? If to such degenerative level that goes any other city, even Kiev - I would have understood.
But even if stinky sushi bars, clinging concoctions of waste, are not afraid of the window aerial bottle with liquid known for such blasphemy, confirms the umpteenth proof that I was right.

circled inscriptions:
1) fried "Titushky" (so called proplachennye people who allegedly hired Yanukovych - the name came up a year ago on the Maidan)
2) a separatist with grilled salmon

https://www.facebook.com/anatolijsharij/posts/10205403221948432

 

[thorbiorn]

There are many articles and analysis being posted around the web on the situation in Ukraine. Here is one _http://fortruss.blogspot.dk/2014/11/after-eliminating-competition-kiev.html?spref=fb&m=1 a translation by Kristina Rus of an analysis by Rostislav Ishchenko posted in Russian on _http://actualcomment.ru/nachalo-kontsa-voyna-v-kieve.html

After eliminating competition Kiev edges closer to anarchy by battling with itself "Go to the elections, choose your own fascist!"
Rostislav Ishchenko for the "Actual Comments"
November 7, 2014

The expert community had awakened. Almost all. Even yesterday's pessimists are no longer arguing about for how much and how will Novorossia be sold out, but solely on the timing of the beginning of Kiev's battle with itself.

It is a comforting fact. Not because the experts finally saw the obvious, but due to the fact that the spectrum of solutions of Kiev authorities narrowed so much that the options can easily be calculated by even people who have a distant view of chess and confuse geopolitics with immediate desires. The countdown is down to days, maximum weeks.

Lets try to play for Kiev, and see what kind of resources for prolonging the agony it has left.

[...]

One consolation - long "celebration of the Nazi democracy" will not last. The EU will "see the light" even faster than our expert community. Incidentally September alarmists would have to publicly apologize - as a result of repeatedly questioned ceasefire, "all is lost" not in Moscow and not in Novorossia, but in Kiev.

Rostislav Ishchenko, President of the Center of System Analysis and Forecasting, exclusively for the "Actual Comments"

I hope Rostislav Ischenko is right in thinking that the EU will see the light. I would not hold my breath, but agree to count the weeks and months. Also because of: _http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-military-to-train-ukrainian-soldiers-and-national-guard-to-fight-people-of-donetsk-in-cold-weather/5413096 In any case, when it is over there will be a lot of accounts to settle with regard to war crimes: _http://www.globalresearch.ca/nazi-nato-atrocities-committed-in-eastern-ukraine-but-no-war-crimes-tribunals-why/5413150

When Europe sees the light, will more people also understand how they have been manipulated by certain western power circles? See for example this great analysis by Don Hunt and Niall Bradley: http://www.sott.net/article/288743-Warmonger-George-Soros-on-Ukraine-A-fascinating-insight-into-the-deranged-thinking-of-the-Western-Empire-builders-with-commentary

 

[thorbiorn]

If Europe will see the light with regard to Ukraine, one may wonder where it could happen first. In this article there is a review of the role of Eastern Europe: _http://en.ukraina.ru/analytics/20141107/1011102807.html

[...]
But although Washington would have liked to see a solid anti-Russian front from Poland down to former Yugoslavia, the region has been much more nuanced in its policies. The ambivalence of the 1990s has resurfaced.
[...]
Serbia and Bulgaria, meanwhile, have long had closer relations with Russia, Putin or no Putin. Neither country wants to be put in the awkward position of having to choose between the east and the west. And, until recently, they didn’t really have to do so.

The obvious exception to this pragmatism is Hungary. Led by the right-wing Fidesz party, Hungary has grown ever more distant from both the European Union and NATO. In July, for instance, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban declared that “since the rule of Soviet empire, no other external power has dared to try to curb the sovereignty of Hungarians openly, choosing a legal form.” Was he referring to Russia? No, he was reserving his wrath for the European Union. The European Parliament had recently issued a scathing report on the Hungarian government’s performance, and Orban was fuming. It only reinforced his turn eastward.

Hungary’s relationship with Russia has been on an upward swing, in part for reasons of energy. Hungary has signed deals with Gazprom for the delivery of natural gas and with Rosatom to build two new blocks at Hungary’s nuclear power plant in Paks. But there is also an ideological affinity between Orban and Putin. The Hungarian leader has declared his preference for Hungary to be an “illiberal democracy,” and he definitely has Putin’s Russia in mind as a potential model.
[...]

 

[thorbiorn]

Here is another articles about a growing EU disenchantment with Kiev:

[..]
"Ukrainian oligarchs have the best of both worlds," said the senior EU official, adding that businesses from Polish factories to French wheat farmers had begun to grumble about unfair trade.

"Whether we will end up with full implementation of the EU agreement as it was signed, I have my doubts," he said.

"I think that within six months, the EU will be negotiating again with the Ukrainians and the Russians, with them sitting at the same side of the table ... The EU will wake up."
[...]

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

when the junta continues to shell the daily settlements of New Russia, wiping ass of all agreements, and children are dying - all the "pitying" Europe is silent, shamefully ignored - because this is crimes their junta. and if at least one shot did militias - Europe on the world to raise a tantrum on ceasefire violations, wild terrorists with whom you can not agree, and everything else.
and I really want that all those bastards got in 10 times more disasters on their heads. and that no one came to their aid.

 

[Siberia]

Yesterday my colleague told me how he met with a family of refugees from Donbass, he was very impressed by that meeting. First of all he was surprised that Donbass residents go as far as Siberia: he asked them how they felt about our climate and they confessed that our autumn equals to their winter..

My colleague put up a child safety seat for sale and they responded - that's how they met. They said that they managed to sell their car in Donbass with a big discount and secretly fled to Crimea first, and then to Siberia. They said that it was not easy to escape from Ukraine.

For the money from their sold car they managed to buy an old Russian one here - because in our city it is hard to handle without a car, especially if you have a family. And so they needed a seat for their baby. The head of the family said that he had already found a job here and that they were planning to stay. They have all their documents with them and now are applying for the Russian citizenship.

They said that they were provided with shelter and money from the government here (800 rubles per day, which is not bad, by the way). But what impressed my colleague the most was the following: when he offered them the seat free of charge - they refused. They said that they don't need his pity and can earn money themselves. Finally they agreed to buy the seat with discount: for 1,000 rubles. The strong people of Donbass who are not afraid of challenges. :)

 

[thorbiorn]

Via http://novorossia.today/pages/about-us.html I found a link to FB page of Noworossija/Neurussland
where there is a post about the use of incendiary ammunition: _https://www.facebook.com/groups/663380880405440/permalink/749576115119249/ with a link to

Ukraine, Syria: Incendiary Weapons Threaten Civilians
Stronger International Law Needed for Weapons that Burn

And a comment to the German FB gives a link to the kind of ammunition used _http://www.armamentresearch.com/9m22s-incendiary-rocket-components-documented-in-eastern-ukraine/
In a comment in German_https://www.facebook.com/groups/663380880405440/permalink/749576115119249/?comment_id=749600251783502&offset=0&total_comments=4 it is claimed that the incendiary weapons contain magnisium pieces that can burn and can reach a temperature of 3000 degrees C.