Co-linearity: What is it? What does it involve? Can it be achieved?

[BHelmet]

To be set free does not equate to being “saved” (whatever that might mean) or being a faulty human in need of fixing. At least it doesn’t to me. Those are all different things as far as I can see it. So, I don’t exactly understand the point you are trying to make.

The captive could be you or me or somebody else…anyone enslaved or imprisoned, by any means and in any fashion. First, second or third person.

Ultimately, if one is a captive it is a possible aim and maybe even a duty to become free. And if one succeeds, it could also be an aim or duty to assist others in their struggle for freedom. I didn’t mean anything about fixing or saving. Those things could be implied, I suppose, but that was not my intention.

 

[BHelmet]

Going back to new members, I seem to remember giving a statement why I wanted to join. Perhaps, if members are getting bent out of shape over new members' posts, a joining requirement of having read some of the Cassiopaean material should be put in place?

i'll give another observation and then be quiet. When I first joined here, membership was between 10 to 12 thousand members...a couple of weeks ago it was in the 6000s...now hovering around 7000....Why have so many left in the 3 years that I have been here?

(Note - I am cutting and pasting this out of the JFK thread and then adding a bit.)

!! Interesting stats !!....thanks! I wonder what a stock market type graph of membership looks like over the years?

Regarding the drop in members, I have one data point to note: In Oct of 2021, the sessions went from being conducted by those physically present (5-11 people approx?) and changed to a Zoom format with around 150 added participants. The Jan 2023 session has about 100 added on Zoom. So, a good question to ask: was there a qualitative change in the sessions due to the added Zooming participants? This, of course, assumes that the Sessions are THE major "draw" for members. IDK, just floating this out there in case there is a correlation between the two (drop in members and new session format).

"Q: (ryu) You said in a previous session that our group’s greatest weakness was the lack of true collinearity. Have we gotten better on that front?

A: Yes."

What I will say is this: collinearity is not intrinsically good or bad. IOW, increasing collinearity is not necessarily a pat on the back. And it seems, to me, that there is more fussing and petty annoyance going on than I can recall at any other time. That is subjective, of course and I could be wrong. (LOL, we'll see how many "oh you're so totally wrong about that" this comment generates! LOL!)

To drive the point home: The WOKE are collinear. The Ukro's are collinear. The WEF members are all highly collinear. Generally so are Christians, Trumpistas, and New York Yankee fans. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera (as spoken by Yul Brynner from The King and I)

"Q: (ryu) You said in a previous session that our group’s greatest weakness was the lack of true collinearity. Have we gotten better on that front?

A: Yes."

OK, sounds all good. But, is that a questionable assumption?

Co-linearity is not guarantee of anything unless the premise upon which that co-linearity is based is clearly understood and held as a context for interacting.

 

[Zzartemis]

And it seems, to me, that there is more fussing and petty annoyance going on than I can recall at any other time. That is subjective, of course and I could be wrong. (LOL, we'll see how many "oh you're so totally wrong about that" this comment generates! LOL!)

Well, maybe I'm being subjective, but it appears to be so to myself, also.

Regarding the drop in members, I have one data point to note: In Oct of 2021, the sessions went from being conducted by those physically present (5-11 people approx?) and changed to a Zoom format with around 150 added participants. The Jan 2023 session has about 100 added on Zoom. So, a good question to ask: was there a qualitative change in the sessions due to the added Zooming participants? This, of course, assumes that the Sessions are THE major "draw" for members. IDK, just floating this out there in case there is a correlation between the two (drop in members and new session format).

When I read here and am engaged with individuals or groups online, I pick up a lot more than what is said thru words...When someone speaks (or for me, in this case writes) there is another conversation or messsge going on/happening behind it. So, the way I perceive includes more than what is on the surface of any interaction.

Since the inclusion of the large numbers of Zoom participants, I get a different feel when reading these sessions...It is a lot of noisy interference and is irritating to my sensing. I'm describing this the best way I can, which I realize might be taken wrong from what I'm attempting to communicate.

The thought occurred to me that this might have something to do with the Dunbar theory of numbers. The implication of this theory is that people only have enough emotional bandwidth for a certain number of friends and acquaintances....And that perhaps I go into overload when the number present at the sessions (including zoomers) gets really large...like 150 ppl! I'm wondering if this happens to other more 'sensitive' members too? It's a stretch but it might explain the 'irritation' I experience when reading sessions, since the addition of members thru zoom...
https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191001-dunbars-number-why-we-can-only-maintain-150-relationships?ocid=ww.social.link.facebook&t=Dunbar's number: Why we can only maintain 150 relationships
FROM: Dunbar's number: Why we can only maintain 150 relationships

"According to British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, the “magic number” is 150. Dunbar became convinced that there was a ratio between brain sizes and group sizes through his studies of non-human primates. This ratio was mapped out using neuroimaging and observation of time spent on grooming, an important social behaviour of primates. Dunbar concluded that the size, relative to the body, of the neocortex – the part of the brain associated with cognition and language – is linked to the size of a cohesive social group. This ratio limits how much complexity a social system can handle.

Dunbar and his colleagues applied this basic principle to humans, examining historical, anthropological and contemporary psychological data about group sizes, including how big groups get before they split off or collapse. They found remarkable consistency around the number 150.

According to Dunbar and many researchers he influenced, this rule of 150 remains true for early hunter-gatherer societies as well as a surprising array of modern groupings: offices, communes, factories, residential campsites, military organisations, 11th Century English villages, even Christmas card lists. Exceed 150, and a network is unlikely to last long or cohere well."

 

[BHelmet]

Interesting about that 150 number. I would guess it relates to some primitive tribal mechanism in human DNA. Maybe even a holdover from primates? (Primitive/primate?) For sure, at a certain point an individual becomes lost or feels lost in larger and larger groups? Also easier to hide in larger and larger groups.

On a micro level, there is certainly a major shift in group dynamics with each additional participant up to….a dozen? The ever famous core follower group number? 12 apostles etc. I’m no “educated” expert on this, just speaking from personal experience. But certainly “one on one” vs 3 and then 4 etc is a massive difference in dynamics.

How this applies to channeling, I couldn’t say. Thanks for your honest comments.

 

[gottathink]

I think we need to back track a bit here to the question of what happened to cause the drop in members. I think that new members are cycling through constantly, new people find the forum then perhaps do not interact or leave for their own reasons. I believe the algorithms may very well have changed which means it is increasingly difficult for people to find the Cassiopaean material thus total forum membership at any one point in time reduces.

To address the number of participants in sessions this really is a result of needing to expand the questions and lines of enquiry that is being asked. We have reached a point in time where changes to our reality are imminent and the session participants are asking questions relevant to positions from all over the world. It is not reasonable to expect Laura and Ark and crew to know everything that we as a populace of our free will are wanting to investigate. This is a strength of this fellowship not a weakness.

 

[BHelmet]

There are organizational group dynamics that may be at play here too. A part of seeking truth and obtaining objectivity (which, I presuppose, is a rallying cry for this group) is to attempt to apply the same acute vision to our own beliefs, thoughts and feelings that we subject other people and situations to. IOW, can I take my own medicine?

I’m not sure what it’s called (help?) but, the pitfall goes like this:

An action is taken or something happens or gets said and 50 people jump in and say “totally awesome, dudes and dudettes!!” (Im talking large groups and organizations of which this forum is one) if there are also 50 or even 20 whose reaction is “meh”, they tend to remain silent either for being nice and well socialized, or they don’t want to be perceived as negative or get called out. This gets amplified when the naturally occurring group vigilantes regulate the individuals who are perceived as being negative. And, certainly, all the people saying “totally awesome DO have a good point!”

My point is, it is not only necessary to look in the mirror on the quest for truth; it is also a good practice to step outside of one’s personal bubble and observe the so-called observer. Assertion: This group is just as susceptible to standard group dynamics as any other group. (And so that needs to be subject to periodic review for the sake of staying on course). It’s human nature to be defensive; and to rationalize. Taking an honest look in the mirror is not how we’re inclined, IMO. The value of that has to be learned.

How many times has someone on this forum opened your eyes with a different point of view? That is a good thing.

Is falling group size a warning light on the dashboard of the car that should be looked into? Maybe. Maybe not. I’m just opening the question since, I think it does relate to co-linearity.

 

[gottathink]

Taking an honest look in the mirror is not how we’re inclined, IMO. The value of that has to be learned.

How many times has someone on this forum opened your eyes with a different point of view? That is a good thing.

I disagree, people who are members of FOTCM and session participants are there because they have spent a good deal of time taking an honest look in the mirror and reflected on the feedback they have received. The open forum is the place where people learn to do this.

 

[BHelmet]

I don’t think we disagree. Certainly the people here would not be here if they hadn’t done some serious looking at themselves as well as the world. But, It’s an ongoing process. It never ends. (I was referring to human nature in general. Default mode which we all still revert to from time to time)

 

[benkostka]

I don’t think we disagree. Certainly the people here would not be here if they hadn’t done some serious looking at themselves as well as the world. But, It’s an ongoing process. It never ends.

That’s one assumption I wish people would get rid of. People arrive here for all types of reasons, and they’re clearly described in many of the introductory threads. Many of them have clearly never done any “serious looking at themselves” and further we know it’s impossible for OPs to ever do that.

We can go ahead and assume these things, which for the souled individual is sort of an automatic process. Your brain will fill in something that isn’t there regarding your interactions with another person. Removing those types of programs becomes essential if you want to progress, or at least see things clearly.

I think it’s just natural what’s happening now on the forum, I’ve seen the same sorting process with my blue collar friends. Some “get it”, some don’t….. but regardless of what we do, eventually the wheat will separate from the chaff. There’s just a lot that can be learned now because of the turmoil, if we choose to do so.

 

[Glenn]

I see it that, as things are heating up, people are being forced to make a choice, and some are seeing that this road is too hard for them. They want to hang on to their, 'normal life', don't want to be separated from family and friends, want to be able to travel, etc, etc, etc. So I guess you could say that the ones that have dropped out, were not really seriously committed to the work here and all that that entails. I think that the ones that will endure to the end will end up to be a pretty small number in the overall scheme of things. I think this is natural, and part of how things work in this reality. At least, that is what I am seeing.

 

[benkostka]

I see it that, as things are heating up, people are being forced to make a choice, and some are seeing that this road is too hard for them. They want to hang on to their, 'normal life', don't want to be separated from family and friends, want to be able to travel, etc, etc, etc. So I guess you could say that the ones that have dropped out, were not really seriously committed to the work here and all that that entails. I think that the ones that will endure to the end will end up to be a pretty small number in the overall scheme of things. I think this is natural, and part of how things work in this reality. At least, that is what I am seeing.

Yes, they will become a “Dream in the past”, and the rest of us will hopefully become the reality of the future.

I’m seeing the exact same things you are, and oddly perhaps experiencing the same things. Many of my friends could care less about books like Chaos from Tom O’Neill, others are very interested…. Just a bit o sorting going on.

 

[Honzap]

Reading thru this thread and collecting my thoughts on collinearity.

As already stated it is pursuing the same goal. However that does not mean that there is only one way of doing it.
Next is knowledge and doing. All knowledge is theoretical until the learning becomes understanding, which adds doing part to the equation. And then there is next level here which is teaching. The only way how to get there is to have understanding deep enough. Point of teaching is to help those who are asking questions and/or seeking knowledge and understanding. Which falls into the narrative that you can really move onto the next level only when you help somebody else to reach yours. Kind of we are helping each other to pull us all up.

To sum it up. If it was easy, anybody could do it

So to close the thought, collinearity is enclosing the loop in our common goal.
(Did I just say linear became circular?? Hmm)

 

[Wandering Star]

And I believe that what unites us in a collinear way is "the truth".

There is a collective effort to be candid, truthful, and show the naked truth in every matter discussed.

I think that over time, that leaves an aftertaste.

Soon and more and more, it is almost impossible to bear reading certain things.

The truth will set us free and when you get used to reading the distilled truth...

We're all looking for that collinearity... so we align ourselves with that.

The truth!

 

[Alejo]

What I will say is this: collinearity is not intrinsically good or bad. IOW, increasing collinearity is not necessarily a pat on the back. And it seems, to me, that there is more fussing and petty annoyance going on than I can recall at any other time. That is subjective, of course and I could be wrong. (LOL, we'll see how many "oh you're so totally wrong about that" this comment generates! LOL!)

well, yes and no.. Collinear simply means, seeing reality in a similar enough manner (and that means a lot) so as to choose the same direction in which to move, or focus efforts. So, yes.. not intrinsically good, but have you tried to arrange dinner with family or friends? the phrase herding cats exists to highlight the difficulty in collinearity in my opinion. So, in that sense, it is good from the point of view of achieving a collinear enough state in a really extensive group, from all walks of life.

Regarding the number of registered members, I suppose there's many reasons that could be explored, and I suppose it's not a phenomenon that has one answer, but the world has definitely changed in the past few years, that may have driven people away, politically and ideologically and so on, however the core group has strengthened its cohesion and, collinearity, and the idea of quality vs quantity I think matters in this case.

As members have gone, members have joined, some leave to never come back, some leave and then come back, some stay passively.. and some actively, some re activate after a while. The core group has remained strong and its connection to the rest of the members has expanded in quality IMO.

 

[Sirius]

(L) What is the group's main weakness?

A: Lack of true colinearity.

Q: (L) You know, when you think about colinearity, just go back and re-read what Gurdjieff wrote about the circles. Does everybody know what I'm talking about? The outer circle, the mesoteric circle, and so on. Perhaps somebody will post that in the thread that discusses this meeting and we'll talk about it a bit. It immediately occurs to me that there are a number of things about lack of colinearity that manifest in many ways. Getting to that point of true colinearity is obviously very desirable. At the same time, it's not so easy! It takes a LOT of discussion, a lot of talking, a lot of interaction. Oh, they want to say something... Sorry, I'm being interrupted:

A: Singing helps a bit. Reading exercises that are undertaken from the correct perspective also.

I think they referred to what is also known as a social memory complex (group or grid mind of higher beings). Notice the word “true.”
Singing and reading is also what monks do in order to form some bond or uniformity.