Como anda la cosa... (how things are going? Economic collapse in Spain)
- Thread starter David Topi
- Start date
Elisa said:
You welcome, Elisa.
What I don't understand is: if the euro is devalued , that means that ALL the euro will be also devalued, or not? So if in Spain they will devalue the euro, can they do JUST this devaluation in Spain? Is there a nice economist that can answer this simple question? I will appreciate...
Yesterday I asked again to the director of my bank if Spain will return to the peseta? He answer NO WAY. But, does he tells me the true?
What I see is that the euro is losing power, in exchange with Canadian dollars.
Sylvie
Padawan Learner
Yes, that's what they say there will be no return, but we'll see that!Elisa said:
In Portugal it's similar, it is very bad, it's like in Greece or nearly. So, the difference is that the situation in Portugal don't give media coverage. I have an uncle from Portugal who comes in France from time to time, he tells me all the difficulties that the Portuguese get just to live decently over there and the catastrophic situation in portugal. A lot of people live with very little money, it's outrageous limit, really! I do not even know how they do for not to rebel more.
Sylvie said:
I am so sorry for the Portuguese people, they are so gentle and I love to go to Portugal once in a while just to be with people, feeling their gentleness, their patience, their good education and their smile. They are so different from Spanish people and it is too bad that the economic situation is so terrible because I would like to find a job in Portugal, and work with Portuguese. You are right, nobody talks about Portugal. It is like this country does not exist. We live in a global planet but this means nothing at all. We still have difficulty in understanding how humanity is a big family, we are all brothers and sisters.
David Topi
Jedi Master
loreta said:
Hola Loreta,
I'll do my best to explain it as I understand it, not an economist myself so forgive general statements. The EURO has its ups and downs againsts all currencies in the world and this is going to be always like that. When bad news hit the eurozone, the euro vs the dollar for instance goes down, so it cost us more to buy something in dollars because the euro has lost some value. But this is just the exchange market, nothing to do with Spain now.
The devaluation here will come when we exit the Euro and move back to la peseta or any other currency. Remember when we got 166 pesetas for each euro? That is the official exchange. Well, devaluating the peseta will be that you will get much less pesetas for your Euros, maybe 100 for each euro. This can only happen, if, as predicted, we exit the eurozone (even before greece! some claim).
This will be a chaos in the short term, but it seems that in long term, it is the best solution, because for any other foreigner willing to buy spanish products it will be extremely cheap, so exports will grow, more income will come to the country, maybe investors will return, etc. So, this is what some economist foresee as the best solution for the country.
Today the bonds are an all time high (over 540 points!!), and the spanish goverment has to pay over 6% interest for each bond they issue to get money to pay the debt that was issued few months ago. This is not sustainable any more. Even now we need 19.000 billions to rescue Bankia, that's absurd! And it is going to come from emiting more debt bonds, so this week probably the goverment will ask that money to the markets, that will ask in return maybe that 6% o higher. Then next month we will have to emit more debt to pay part of what we need to pay because we have run again out of money. It never ends.
On the other hand, I do think that nothing will happen until the Greek elections due next month, and the EU meeting shortly after (I think), depending how those two things go, there could be a worsened situation here or maybe somebody will come with a "magic" solution to solve the problem.
On the mean time, hysteria is blowing in the wind....
David Topi said:
Thanks David, I understand a little more. So we don't know when this will happen, you say maybe after the Greece elections, but if the solution for Spain is returning to another money, do you really think that the PTB will accept it? If their objective is the devastation of the country, I doubt that Spain will return to the peseta. I have the impression that they wanted a complete devastation. Maybe I am wrong, but I feel that the powers don't want the normality return of the economies.
It made me very angry when today I hear that they wanted to cut the help for chronic people that have to take ambulances to go to hospitals. If they cut the help, some people will have to pay around 800 euros by month! And they don't have the money. When I hear that type of news my mind is ruling very slowly (or fast) and I have tendency to see a conspiration, the conspiration of eliminating the sick, the old. Am I wrong? Do I feel things that are not there?
We will see what will happen in the next weeks... Thanks David for the information. You are a good teacher!
David Topi
Jedi Master
Glad to be of service 
.
Yes, that scenario has been also on my mind. It is probably a "create as much chaos as possible" so you have the people busy for the next years. They may not care anymore about "centralised power" (building a stronger EU in the hands of the PTB) and maybe breaking the EU is simply the next move.
I guess I should stop thinking about what the reason for all this is and get ready for the changes, whatever it comes. Because the heat is on here in this country!
. Yes, that scenario has been also on my mind. It is probably a "create as much chaos as possible" so you have the people busy for the next years. They may not care anymore about "centralised power" (building a stronger EU in the hands of the PTB) and maybe breaking the EU is simply the next move.
I guess I should stop thinking about what the reason for all this is and get ready for the changes, whatever it comes. Because the heat is on here in this country!
España lleva 5 días con la prima de riesgo por encima de los 500 puntos… Grecia, Portugal e Irlanda fueron “rescatadas” después de estar 20 días, aproximadamente, con la prima por encima de los 500 puntos. Así que si España sigue el “guión establecido”, nos quedan 15 días más por encima de los 500 puntos para ser “rescatados”…
A mi me parece que el objetivo de nuestro “amos” es precisamente eso, que España sea “rescatada”…. Y parece que se han dado los pasos para que esto suceda…
El caso de Bankia es bastante sospechoso. En mi opinión, la crisis de Bankia ha sido generada conscientemente por nuestros dirigentes para justificar ahora “El Rescate”.
Rodrigo Rato ha trabajado para el FMI que es el cáncer de este cruel sistema monetario. Ahora, vuelve a España y se erige como presidente de Bankia para resolver su crisis.
Y resulta que hace una gestión tan pésima que provoca una crisis mayor en Bankia de la que ya había antes de su llegada. Luego, dimite con una indemnización multimillonaria y se limpia las manos… Muy sospechoso ¿no?
El asunto de Bankia no puede solucionarse porque su deuda es ya enorme. Dejar que Bankia quiebre no es una opción contemplada por nuestro gobierno. Según ellos, si bankia cae, las consecuencias de nuestro sistema financiero serían terribles, repito, eso dice ellos.
Así que la “trama teatral” que han montado sólo tiene una salida: hay que salvar a Bankia para salvar a España, y la única posibilidad de salvar Bankia es con ayuda del exterior… Es decir, el temido “rescate”.
Aquí os dejo un artículo de Trinity que creo que explica de una forma sencilla lo que puede pasar en España en los próximos meses…
http://www.trinityatierra.com/2012/05/31/no-me-rescates-por-favor/
Lo irónico de esto es que mis ahorros los tengo en Bankia, así que mi situación es bastante desagradable. Si Bankia quiebra, yo “pierdo” mi dinero, si Bankia es “rescatada” yo conservo mi dinero, pero todos los españoles vamos a tener que pagar este rescate. Y si la situación en España es ya mala, después del rescate será pésima.
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Spain takes 5 days with the risk premium over the 500 points ... Greece, Portugal and Ireland were "rescued" after 20 days or so, with the premium over the 500 points. So if Spain follows " the established script", we have 15 days above 500 points to be "rescued" ...
It seems to me that the goal of our "masters" is just that, that Spain is "rescued" .... And they seem to have taken steps to make this happen ...
The case of Bankia is quite suspect. In my opinion, the Bankia's crisis has been generated by our leaders consciously to justify now "The Rescue".
Rodrigo Rato has worked for the IMF which is the cancer of this cruel monetary system. Now, go back to Spain and stands as president of Bankia to resolve its crisis.
And he does so bad management that caused a crisis in Bankia higher than had before his arrival.. Then, resigns from office with a multimillion compensation and clean hands ... Very suspicious... right?
The Bankia's issue can not be solved because their debt is already huge. Allow Bankia to goes bankrupt is not an option provided by our government. According to them, if Bankia falls, the consequences of our financial system would be terrible, and I repeat, according to them.
So the "teatral storyline" that they have mounted only have one way: Bankia must be saved to save Spain, and the only chance to save Bankia is outside support... That is, the dreaded "rescue”.
Here you have an Trinity's article that I think easily explains what can happen in Spain in the coming months ...
http://www.trinityatierra.com/2012/05/31/no-me-rescates-por-favor/
The irony of this is that I have my savings in Bankia, so my situation is quite unpleasant. If Bankia fails, I “lose” my money, if Bankia is "rescued" I keep my money but all Spanish will have to pay this ransom. And if the situation in Spain is already bad, after the rescue will be terrible.
A mi me parece que el objetivo de nuestro “amos” es precisamente eso, que España sea “rescatada”…. Y parece que se han dado los pasos para que esto suceda…
El caso de Bankia es bastante sospechoso. En mi opinión, la crisis de Bankia ha sido generada conscientemente por nuestros dirigentes para justificar ahora “El Rescate”.
Rodrigo Rato ha trabajado para el FMI que es el cáncer de este cruel sistema monetario. Ahora, vuelve a España y se erige como presidente de Bankia para resolver su crisis.
Y resulta que hace una gestión tan pésima que provoca una crisis mayor en Bankia de la que ya había antes de su llegada. Luego, dimite con una indemnización multimillonaria y se limpia las manos… Muy sospechoso ¿no?
El asunto de Bankia no puede solucionarse porque su deuda es ya enorme. Dejar que Bankia quiebre no es una opción contemplada por nuestro gobierno. Según ellos, si bankia cae, las consecuencias de nuestro sistema financiero serían terribles, repito, eso dice ellos.
Así que la “trama teatral” que han montado sólo tiene una salida: hay que salvar a Bankia para salvar a España, y la única posibilidad de salvar Bankia es con ayuda del exterior… Es decir, el temido “rescate”.
Aquí os dejo un artículo de Trinity que creo que explica de una forma sencilla lo que puede pasar en España en los próximos meses…
http://www.trinityatierra.com/2012/05/31/no-me-rescates-por-favor/
Lo irónico de esto es que mis ahorros los tengo en Bankia, así que mi situación es bastante desagradable. Si Bankia quiebra, yo “pierdo” mi dinero, si Bankia es “rescatada” yo conservo mi dinero, pero todos los españoles vamos a tener que pagar este rescate. Y si la situación en España es ya mala, después del rescate será pésima.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spain takes 5 days with the risk premium over the 500 points ... Greece, Portugal and Ireland were "rescued" after 20 days or so, with the premium over the 500 points. So if Spain follows " the established script", we have 15 days above 500 points to be "rescued" ...
It seems to me that the goal of our "masters" is just that, that Spain is "rescued" .... And they seem to have taken steps to make this happen ...
The case of Bankia is quite suspect. In my opinion, the Bankia's crisis has been generated by our leaders consciously to justify now "The Rescue".
Rodrigo Rato has worked for the IMF which is the cancer of this cruel monetary system. Now, go back to Spain and stands as president of Bankia to resolve its crisis.
And he does so bad management that caused a crisis in Bankia higher than had before his arrival.. Then, resigns from office with a multimillion compensation and clean hands ... Very suspicious... right?
The Bankia's issue can not be solved because their debt is already huge. Allow Bankia to goes bankrupt is not an option provided by our government. According to them, if Bankia falls, the consequences of our financial system would be terrible, and I repeat, according to them.
So the "teatral storyline" that they have mounted only have one way: Bankia must be saved to save Spain, and the only chance to save Bankia is outside support... That is, the dreaded "rescue”.
Here you have an Trinity's article that I think easily explains what can happen in Spain in the coming months ...
http://www.trinityatierra.com/2012/05/31/no-me-rescates-por-favor/
The irony of this is that I have my savings in Bankia, so my situation is quite unpleasant. If Bankia fails, I “lose” my money, if Bankia is "rescued" I keep my money but all Spanish will have to pay this ransom. And if the situation in Spain is already bad, after the rescue will be terrible.
OrangeScorpion said:
Yesterday I went to the blog of Trinity and left it very, very depressed.
And I think you are absolutely right: this bailout of Spain is manufactured. So, in a word: we don't have the choice. Oh, oh, oh, this makes me, always and again and everyday, very very angry. I need to meditate with EE because this situation is every day worst and worst... When you listen to the radio and that they interview some "experts" that tell us that the good solution is this bailout... and they say it is the ONLY solution...( They always talk, this magnificent experts in a low voice, very calm, that reminds me a doctor that tells his patient that he has 1 month of life...but he does not have to care about it). What a propaganda and brainwash of first category. I always squeeze my jaws and light up a cigarette and then shut the radio. I really don't know how all this will end, I don't know if people will react style Greece... A tsunami is approaching, that's for sure.
In Spain there is a new phenomenon: some singers and dancers go to the banks and sing inside the buildings. Is is a sort of protest against the banks. Here is a group of dancers and singers that went to Caja Madrid and sing against Bankia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iop2b3oq1O0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iop2b3oq1O0&feature=player_embedded
David Topi
Jedi Master
Interesting article:
BILDERBERG: “SPAIN WILL BE SACRIFICED.”
Throughout the three day Bilderberg meeting, European bankers, American government officials and international money managers conducted tense discussions behind closed doors on the wisdom of Germany extending the country´s credit to paper over the indebtedness of the rest of Europe. One German Bilderberger pointed out that Germany’s resources are finite, while another German stated matter of fact that “it would be impossible in the currently rarified political and economic climate to try and convince German voters to support Spain, a country plagued by corruption and inefficiency.”
The key message from the meeting: come hell or high water, it is imperative to preserve the functioning of the banking system. Spain´s Vice President received a dose of humility when she tried to push the issue of “responsibility” telling her high powered German Bilderberg colleagues that they should issue Eurobonds to save the system. The reply was more than telling: “go pound sand, little girl,” is how Bilderberg high powered elite replied to “Soraya´s” baseless pretensions. Eurobonds are guaranteed by Germany but would be spent mostly by Europe’s PIIGS.
The conclusion couldn´t have been more frightful for Spain´s immediate future. Spain will be sacrificed on the altar of high finance. “Why would we want to save you, if Spain has lied about the depth of its financial troubles?” asked one German participant of Spain´s vice president. “Your banking system is worthless. Do you have equity that might be of interest to anyone?” The answer was a resounding, “NO.” One US government official stated that “the time has come to press the alarm button.”
The sense of panic was growing as the weekend progressed and deliberations became more and more tense. Unlike Spanish citizens, Bilderberg has access to a complete data on deposit money flight from Spain which they believe to be twice the announced 66.2 billion euros in March.
“March was an eternity ago in financial terms,” as one Bilderberg noted. Hard numbers speak for themselves. The debt of Spanish financial institutions is 109% of Gross Domestic Product, twice the amount in France or Germany, and three times that of the United States. Unpayable loans in the construction sector are 40% of GDP in real terms, and not the 20% the Rajoy government has been selling to the world.
Another Bilderberg stated that “The problem with Spain is that its construction sector is an 800kg gorilla in a china shop,” as large as the entire manufacturing sector. By contrast, in Germany, construction is 20% the size of manufacturing.
Another Bilderberg pointed out that one year ago, the ratio of financial-sector debt relative to Gross Domestic Product declined from US$8 trillion to $6.1 trillion. One trillion dollars of these loses can be attributed to the collapse of Lehman Brothers, JPMorgan Chase’s purchase of Bear Stearns, and the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch merger.
In conclusion, the Spanish banking system including Spanish bank held debt of Spanish households are going to die. As I stated on record on May 31, Spain´s leading bank, Banco Santander has an unpayable debt of over 800 billion euros. Bilderberg obviously knows this. Metastasis has spread to all parts of the system. Shadow Masters have spoken and the script has been written. It remains to be seen how long the actors take to play out their parts.
There is a solution. Spain must immediate leave the euro and go back to being an independent nation-state republic.
Daniel Estulin
BILDERBERG: “SPAIN WILL BE SACRIFICED.”
Throughout the three day Bilderberg meeting, European bankers, American government officials and international money managers conducted tense discussions behind closed doors on the wisdom of Germany extending the country´s credit to paper over the indebtedness of the rest of Europe. One German Bilderberger pointed out that Germany’s resources are finite, while another German stated matter of fact that “it would be impossible in the currently rarified political and economic climate to try and convince German voters to support Spain, a country plagued by corruption and inefficiency.”
The key message from the meeting: come hell or high water, it is imperative to preserve the functioning of the banking system. Spain´s Vice President received a dose of humility when she tried to push the issue of “responsibility” telling her high powered German Bilderberg colleagues that they should issue Eurobonds to save the system. The reply was more than telling: “go pound sand, little girl,” is how Bilderberg high powered elite replied to “Soraya´s” baseless pretensions. Eurobonds are guaranteed by Germany but would be spent mostly by Europe’s PIIGS.
The conclusion couldn´t have been more frightful for Spain´s immediate future. Spain will be sacrificed on the altar of high finance. “Why would we want to save you, if Spain has lied about the depth of its financial troubles?” asked one German participant of Spain´s vice president. “Your banking system is worthless. Do you have equity that might be of interest to anyone?” The answer was a resounding, “NO.” One US government official stated that “the time has come to press the alarm button.”
The sense of panic was growing as the weekend progressed and deliberations became more and more tense. Unlike Spanish citizens, Bilderberg has access to a complete data on deposit money flight from Spain which they believe to be twice the announced 66.2 billion euros in March.
“March was an eternity ago in financial terms,” as one Bilderberg noted. Hard numbers speak for themselves. The debt of Spanish financial institutions is 109% of Gross Domestic Product, twice the amount in France or Germany, and three times that of the United States. Unpayable loans in the construction sector are 40% of GDP in real terms, and not the 20% the Rajoy government has been selling to the world.
Another Bilderberg stated that “The problem with Spain is that its construction sector is an 800kg gorilla in a china shop,” as large as the entire manufacturing sector. By contrast, in Germany, construction is 20% the size of manufacturing.
Another Bilderberg pointed out that one year ago, the ratio of financial-sector debt relative to Gross Domestic Product declined from US$8 trillion to $6.1 trillion. One trillion dollars of these loses can be attributed to the collapse of Lehman Brothers, JPMorgan Chase’s purchase of Bear Stearns, and the Bank of America-Merrill Lynch merger.
In conclusion, the Spanish banking system including Spanish bank held debt of Spanish households are going to die. As I stated on record on May 31, Spain´s leading bank, Banco Santander has an unpayable debt of over 800 billion euros. Bilderberg obviously knows this. Metastasis has spread to all parts of the system. Shadow Masters have spoken and the script has been written. It remains to be seen how long the actors take to play out their parts.
There is a solution. Spain must immediate leave the euro and go back to being an independent nation-state republic.
Daniel Estulin
David Topi
Jedi Master
sorry, forgot to copy paste it!
_http://www.danielestulin.com/2012/06/05/bilderberg-reportinforme-2012-part-1/
_http://www.danielestulin.com/2012/06/05/bilderberg-reportinforme-2012-part-1/
Rich
The Living Force
loreta said:Estulin is the porte-parole of the Bilderberg, we can see that. And we can see that this situation will explode. So maybe is time to think about abandoning the boat?
Thanks for the article!
If only it was so easy! Trouble is all the other boats are following closely behind :(
I think regardless of where one is it is having a close network that will help one keep afloat :)
