Como anda la cosa... (how things are going? Economic collapse in Spain)

[David Topi]

If only it was so easy! Trouble is all the other boats are following closely behind :(

I think regardless of where one is it is having a close network that will help one keep afloat :)

There was a time when reading about becoming a Perpetual Tourist (the "science" for being constantly in the move and avoiding being tracked by any goverment created by Hill, Dr. W. G.) seemed absurd, and now, it even looks like a great idea if you are jumping from sinking boat to sinking boat .


But yes, I agree, everyplace will have its problems, best place to stay is anywhere where you can have a network as Pob said, do not think there is much a single person can do today to manage all this turmoil by itself.

 

[loreta]

Ok, it is done.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/after-spains-bailout-leaders-fear-for-italys-future/article4244654/

We will received help to help our banks. And help to become poorer.

 

[David Topi]

Ok, it is done.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/after-spains-bailout-leaders-fear-for-italys-future/article4244654/

We will received help to help our banks. And help to become poorer.

As one journalist said yesterday, now Europe has put money in our banks, which most of them are now going to be owned by the state, which in turn, will have to pay the 100.000 millions back at 3%, therefore, now, Europe owns Spain.

 

[loreta]

Ok, it is done.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/after-spains-bailout-leaders-fear-for-italys-future/article4244654/

We will received help to help our banks. And help to become poorer.

As one journalist said yesterday, now Europe has put money in our banks, which most of them are now going to be owned by the state, which in turn, will have to pay the 100.000 millions back at 3%, therefore, now, Europe owns Spain.

That was, is the plan. To own every country of Europe. With this a totalitarian state is nor very far away...

Because I think that the problem is not economical. People think that we have an economical problem, I think that the PTB utilizes economics to their objective: total control of the population. Ok, we know all here all of this... And I knew it also but suddenly I am conscious of it. And this makes me almost cry.

You talk to people and they don't know, absolutely don't know that this is not an economical problem. They say: too bad, our children and grand-children will pay the debt. I become very silent when people talk like this, I prefer to look inside me for help. I say to myself: be patient, be silent. You can not talk to a piece of wood.

So... I am very sad now. My consciousness hurts.

Edit: some more thoughts.

 

[loreta]

Things are not going very well in Spain. You all know about the loan, more than 100 thousand millions FOR THE BANK. Ok, now because they need money to pay this impossible first loan, they will cut anywhere. They are starting with medication. Usually if you are a senior you have your medications free. Now starting next Monday people have to pay one euro for every medication. And I think senior or not you will have to pay this damn euro. If you don't have the money to pay your medication, senior or not senior (there are some senior or people really sick that can take 20 medications or more by month) the pharmacy can not give you the medication AT ALL. If they give you the medication without you paying or without the prescription, the pharmacist can go to jail for 10 years!!!!!!! This morning I talk to my pharmacist (that is also my homeopath). She is a very good person and said to me: "This is horrible, this is very bad for people and for pharmacies..."

So you see I can see that this country is going backwards every day, and very soon we will see poverty in big quantity, misery worst and worst and I can "feel" that this government will be very soon a dictatorial government. And I see that people are not reacting to this. Little by little measures are implanted but the Medias are so corrupted that the lies are everywhere to put asleep everyone everywhere in this country.

They put this new measure about medication just in these days that are important for the soccer. So people are looking soccer in Polonia while their government is doing this.

I am not scared very easily, but I start to be a little annoyed by all of this.

 

[David Topi]

I am not scared very easily, but I start to be a little annoyed by all of this.

Hola Loreta,
More than scared, I am starting to be pissed off. All the hints we get now from the MSM points to the direction that Spain is being used (my impressions) to launch a deeper EU integration, in the classical problem - reaction -solution.

The EU superminister of finances is already being planned, meaning, Brussels will control the national budgets, the fiscal unit is its way and countries will give away more of their sovereignty to a centralised superstate.

From the news:
«Europe will have finance super minister», writes i, after draft reports have emerged outlining a plan by prominent European officials for increased EU control over member states’ national budgets. European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, European Commission President José Manuel Barroso, European Central Bank President Mario Draghi and Eurogroup President Jean-Claude Juncker are expected to present the proposal at this week’s European Council.

Have the feeling all this will eventually calm down once the above objective is already implemented, but on the meantime, yes, every single cent you have is being taxed. Watch for the VAT of basic food being raised in the coming days (bread, milk, etc -- ahh, it feels so good to be on paleo right now --> joke, the VAT raise, not a joke for millions of people).

Another interesting stuff that points out that economical situation has nothing to do with the real economical situation of the country. I have learned recently that most banks (EU and Americans) are making TONS of money buying and selling what they call the CDS, Credit Default Swaps, kind of assurance that grows in price the riskier a country is close to its fall. So, they bet and they manipulate the situation in order to put countries into the worse situation possible, so the CDS increase their value, and when they sell it, well, millions pour into the accounts of the banks and finantial companies. Still learning about it, now it has become a very interesting times to dig a bit more into macroeconomics, at least you put a "face" into something so "abstract" such as the manipulations of the market.

David

 

[loreta]

This situation makes me very angry with... myself. It is a situation that puts me in a disagreeably situation. I am angry with this government but much more with myself to be here and to see that I was not able to see what was coming and take decisions regarding to it. So now I am here in Spain, unable to move (no job) and seeing this country fall in a precipice.

I don't want to change the subject but maybe this threat can be also about how everyone living in this country is perceiving all this from a individual perspective, from the interior of ourselves; what is happening, how this situation that is just at his beginning, is giving us insights about ourselves, how we feel and how we can cope with this. I feel very lonely regarding all of what is happening in this country because I am surrounded by people that are not aware of what is happening. Even my husband is not realizing how grave this situation is. I know that we need to live in peace in the middle of the tornado if we want to survive but the worst thing is feeling alone in this tornado.

So the first emotion that comes when I look all these drastic and inhumane measures is anger with myself. This, evidently, is a good insight that I can work about myself. How other people in Spain are living all this? Are you sad, angry, tired?

Maybe this is not the good space to talk about it. But I see that the political is invading our personal. But if you think that this thread is not correct for that type of discussion we can start another thread. Or forget about it.

 

[ginebra]

Hi loreta,

Yes, it is very sad to see the turn that this country is taking, the despair is noticeable in every daily aspect. What I cannot understand is the
resignation in the people, swallowing all the lies that our politicians tell us, unnable to undertake any kind of movement, we witness almost
day in day out the sheer robbery from the banks the corrupt politicians even judges and so on.

 

[Javi]

I pretty much think also that exiting the euro would be the best, but do not want to imagine the chaos that will happen if tomorrow all your savings are worth it just half of what they were 24h before (he mentioned 35% devaluation in no time, then pointed that it could be more, dunno).

Not only that. If Spain go out of euro and then devalue, then prepare then for that all debts that the Spanish citizens owe to the banks increase to nearly double, since the loans granted are denominated in euros, not in the new peseta.

Sorry, but I think the stories about the best thing for Spain is out of the euro and return to the peseta is just disinformation. That will not rid Spain of the dependence of PBT and the IMF, but the increase still further. You can not get rid of the Euro overnight.

 

[loreta]

Our seniors are starting to pay their medication this week. I went to the pharmacy Monday. One woman was taking 12 medications, she pay 9 euros. This is a lot of money. She say: "WE are responsible of this mess, it is time now that we pay for it." People are so brainwash that they believe all the stupidities that the politicians are telling them through the TV.

I said to my pharmacist that one solution would be that every pharmacy in this country should do a strike. So maybe if all the pharmacies stop to work the government will change their policies? She say to me that the government told them that if they do this they will have a fine of 50,000 euros.

Next Friday (Friday the 13 th!) this government will telll us all their new measures. They wanted to cut unemployment insurance... and I am sure they will cut the senior pensions. Hard time is coming here but people are still sleeping and feel responsible of this crisis. I try to be very patient when in face of sleepers.

 

[David Topi]

Next Friday (Friday the 13 th!) this government will telll us all their new measures. They wanted to cut unemployment insurance... and I am sure they will cut the senior pensions. Hard time is coming here but people are still sleeping and feel responsible of this crisis. I try to be very patient when in face of sleepers.

We will probably see a raise on the VAT for stuff like food and basic services, despite all the EU blabla and millions going to the banks the draconian measures will keep going on for some time. There is nothing you can do for those not willing to do anything for themselves. Try to get ready yourself and your family. Since a few months ago, there is not a family meeting where we all don't discuss our options and solutions, and we are becoming very creative within our means to be ready for whatever it may come (economically speaking, the other stuff, no control about it)


pd forgot to say that one minority political party has filed a law suit against all the responsibles for the Bankia mess, whether it will achieve something, remains to be seen, they are at least now officially being investigated for corruption, money laundering, etc, etc.

 

[David Topi]

Last week's demonstrations all over the country left some images that are worth it to show the finer sense of irony and humor that still spaniards do have despite being in the middle of the "perfect storm" and manufactured economical collapse.
Here you have some I found, see attached. (I'll translate)


1) Do you work or do you study? No, no, I am spanish!


2) Slogan of the political party in government: "Solutions for the Crisis", right beside the movie advertisment "Thiefs"


3) "When you finish your studies in Spain you have three ways to move on: by air, by land or by sea"




I do not know if they need anymore explanation

 

[loreta]

Thanks Akar,it surprises me always this sense of humor, or when they dance during the manifestation, or they sing, etc. Like if they where in the middle of a big party. When I look all this I am unable to smile, sometimes. Others days I laugh because I know humor is very important and helps a lot when in difficult situations.

 

[David Topi]

Thanks Akar,it surprises me always this sense of humor, or when they dance during the manifestation, or they sing, etc. Like if they where in the middle of a big party. When I look all this I am unable to smile, sometimes. Others days I laugh because I know humor is very important and helps a lot when in difficult situations.

I see it many times as a collective defense mecanism (mentally so to speak). People is really going through difficult times and most of them feeling powerless because they do not understand what's going on (and even if we were to explain the little we understand, many would still be clueless), so humor and irony are a way out for frustration.
In any case, it is not funny at all indeed.

 

[loreta]

Ok, I am angry again.

Spain yesterday, announced that one ONG working in a camp of Saharauis in Mali to leave the country because it is dangerous due to a rumor of near attacks by "terrorists" against the people working in this ONG (fear that they can be kidnapped). But the REAL REASON is that Spain will participated helping (with military forces) to fight "terrorists" in the north of Mali in conjunction with the ONU.

So they do this DURING THE OLYMPIC GAMES. I am so angry that I can not continue to write. I put a link to one very good Spanish web page that gives this news.:

http://grupotortuga.com/Espana-se-prepara-para-participar

Yesterday when I hear the announce by the Exterior Minister I said to myself: hmmmm, this is very suspicious. Also, during the news at the Catalan Televisión that I can see by Internet they had news from Syria and this one concerning Mali and the news were VERY LONG. So something, I am afraid, is building up. Propaganda, propaganda! That give nausea let me tell you.

I will go to smoke some cigarettes. I am fed up by all these psychopaths.