Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[thorbiorn]

The financial press in New York and London is forecasting imminent regime change and the collapse of the Chinese Communist Party!

The following FT op-ed reckons the 'Wuhan flu' is China's Chernobyl:

Xi Jinping faces China’s Chernobyl moment

If the above is indeed possible, then the tasteless drawing, considering that some people are suffering from the coronavirus that was published a few weeks ago, carrying meaning beyond the coronavirus, or should I say the drawing is indicating what it may do in China to the present system of administration. For reference the drawing is attached third from last.
The Danish PM said about the drawing:

"I have nothing else to say but that we have a very strong tradition in Denmark not only for freedom of expression but also for satire drawings, and we will have that in the future too. It is a well-known Danish position and we will not change that," said Fredricksen for the Jyllands Post.

In another article that brought up what different analysts said about the case, with a heading that included "it was mild satire" there was a picture showing many other satirical flags that had previously been published.

I shall refrain from saying more about the drawing that caused the row. Instead I have attached various flags of China past and present, found mainly on List of Chinese flags - Wikipedia, and included information from other Wikis to expand on the meaning of the symbols, used in these flags, as I suspect some of these symbols taken together could indicate possible undercurrents present in Chinese society that might rear their head in the event something changes in the administration of mainland China, even if it does not happen, as soon as the financial press in New York and London expect. The flags signify chapters of Chinese history and each can tell a story.

The Chinese flags in a few words
The first attached flag, from of the Republic of China (Taiwan), is called "青天白日滿地紅 , literally "Blue Sky, White Sun, and a Wholly Red Earth" used from 1924 (some say 1921), followed by the younger flag of the People's Republic of China from 1949 called "Wǔxīng Hóngqí ("Five-starred Red Flag") Below that two, but similar flags from the Qing Dynasty used from 1862-1911, followed by the flag of the Republic of China (1912–1928).

The flag of the Republic of China

The flag of the Republic of China (also known as the Blue Sky, White Sun, and a Wholly Red Earth and the flag of Taiwan) consists of a red field with a blue canton bearing a white disc with twelve triangles surrounding it. The disc and triangles symbolize the sun and rays of light emanating from it respectively.

The flag was originally designed by the anti-Qing group, Revive China Society in 1894 with the addition of the red field component in 1906 by Dr. Sun Yat-sen in speech.

It was first used in mainland China as the Navy flag in 1912,[1] and was made the official national flag of the Republic of China (ROC) in 1928 by the Kuomintang (KMT). It was enshrined in the sixth article of the Constitution of the Republic of China when it was promulgated in 1947. The flag is no longer officially used in mainland China, as the People's Republic of China was founded in 1949.

The National Flag of the People's Republic of China
The Wiki about this flag states that:

The flag of China, officially the National Flag of the People's Republic of China and also known as the Five-starred Red Flag,[2] is a Chinese red field charged in the canton (upper corner nearest the flagpole) with five golden stars. The design features one large star, with four smaller stars in a semicircle set off towards the fly (the side farthest from the flag pole). The red represents the revolution; the five stars and their relationship represent the unity of the Chinese people under the leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC). The first flag was hoisted by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) on a pole overlooking Beijing's Tiananmen Square on October 1, 1949, at a ceremony announcing the establishment of the People's Republic of China.
[...]
According to the current government interpretation of the flag, the red background symbolises the revolution and the golden colors were used to "radiate" on the red background though each of the colors represents one of the Five Elements of fire and earth. The five stars and their relationship represents the unity of Chinese people under the leadership of the Communist Party of China. The orientation of the stars shows that the unity should go around a center.[14] In the original description of the flag by Zeng, the larger star symbolizes the Communist Party of China, and the four smaller stars that surround the big star symbolize the four social classes (the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie) of China's New Democracy mentioned in Mao's "On the People's Democratic Dictatorship". The five stars that formed an ellipse represent the territory of China which is shaped like a Begonia leaf. It is sometimes stated that the five stars of the flag represent the five largest ethnic groups: Han Chinese, Zhuangs, Hui Chinese, Manchus and Uyghurs.[23][24] This is generally regarded as an erroneous conflation with the "Five Races Under One Union" flag, used 1912–28 by the Beiyang Government of Republic of China, whose different-colored stripes represented the Han Chinese, Hui Chinese, Manchus, Mongols and Tibetans.[23][25]

The flag of the Qing Dynasty (1862-1911)
Below the Five-starred Red Flag is the rectangular flag of the Qing Dynasty described as an "Azure Dragon on a plain right triangle yellow field with the red sun of the three-legged crow in the upper left corner." in two versions as the square only became a standard in 1889, while the earlier triangular flag was adopted in 1862. Finally there is the newspaper interpretation of events in China from late January 2020, just two days after the Chinese new year began on the January 25.
About the Azure Dragon in the flag of the Qing Dynasty the Wiki says:

The Azure Dragon (Chinese: 青龍 Qīnglóng), also known as Blue-green Dragon, Green Dragon, or the Blue Dragon (蒼龍 Cānglóng), is one of the Dragon Gods who represent the mount or chthonic forces of the Five Forms of the Highest Deity (五方上帝 Wǔfāng Shàngdì). He is also one of the Four Symbols of the Chinese constellations, which are the astral representations of the Wufang Shangdi. The Azure Dragon represents the east and the spring season.[1]

The Dragon is frequently referred to in the media, feng shui, other cultures, and in various venues as the Green Dragon and the Avalon Dragon.[2] His cardinal direction's epithet is "Bluegreen Dragon of the East" (東方青龍 Dōngfāng Qīnglóng or 東方蒼龍 Dōngfāng Cānglóng).

This dragon is also known as Seiryu in Japanese, Cheongnyong in Korean and Thanh Long in Vietnamese.

The word "chthonic" mean according to the link Wiki:

Chthonic (/ˈθɒnɪk/, UK also /ˈkθɒn-/; from Ancient Greek: χθόνιος, romanized: khthónios[kʰtʰónios], "in, under, or beneath the earth", from χθών khthōn "earth")[1] literally means "subterranean", but the word in English describes deities or spirits of the underworld, especially in Ancient Greek religion.

The Azure Dragon in the flag of the Qing Dynasty is one of the Four Symbols in Taoism
In the Wiki about the Four Symbols one finds:

In Taoism, the Four Symbols have been assigned human identities and names. The Azure Dragon is named Meng Zhang (孟章), the Vermilion Bird is called Ling Guang (陵光), the White Tiger Jian Bing (監兵), and the Black Tortoise Zhi Ming (執明).

The colours associated with the four creatures can be said to match the colours of soil in the corresponding areas of China: the bluish-grey water-logged soils of the east, the reddish iron-rich soils of the south, the whitish saline soils of the western deserts, the black organic-rich soils of the north, and the yellow soils from the central loess plateau.[3]
[...]
These mythological creatures have also been syncretized into the five principles system. The Azure Dragon of the East represents Wood, the Vermilion Bird of the South represents Fire, the White Tiger of the West represents Metal, and the Black Tortoise (or Dark Warrior) of the North represents Water. In this system, the fifth principle Earth is represented by the Yellow Dragon of the Center.[4]

Correspondence with the four seasons
The four beasts each represent a season. The Azure Dragon of the East represents spring, the Vermilion Bird of the South represents summer, the White Tiger of the West represents autumn, and the Black Tortoise of the North represents winter.[5]

The meaning of the three-legged crow in the flag of the Qing Dynasty

The three-legged (or tripedal) crow (simplified Chinese: 三足乌; traditional Chinese: 三足烏; pinyin: sān zú wū) is a creature found in various mythologies and arts of East Asia.[1] It is believed by East Asian cultures to inhabit and represent the Sun.

It has also been found figured on ancient coins from Lycia and Pamphylia.[1]

The earliest forms of the tripedal crow have been found in China. Evidence of the earliest bird-Sun motif or totemic articles excavated around 5000 B.C. from the lower Yangtze River delta area. This bird-Sun totem heritage was observed in later Yangshao and Longshan Cultures.[2] The Chinese have several versions of crow and crow-Sun tales. But the most popular depiction and myth of the Sun crow is that of the Yangwu or Jinwu, the "golden crow".[3]

The flag of the Republic of China (1912–1928)
The fifth flag is mentioned under the Wiki under the Flag of China "Flag of the Republic of China (1912–1928), representing the Five Races Under One Union" principle where the Wiki (preceding link) explains:

Five Races Under One Union was one of the major principles upon which the Republic of China was founded in 1911 at the time of the Xinhai Revolution.[1][2][3][4]
[...]
This principle emphasized harmony between what were considered the five major ethnic groups in China, as represented by the colored stripes of the Five-Colored Flag of the Republic: the Han (red); the Manchus (yellow); the Mongols (blue); the "Hui" (white); and the Tibetans (black).[5]

The term 回, huí, primarily referred in this context to the Muslim Turkic peoples in Western China, since the term "Muslim Territory" (回疆; "Huijiang") was an older name for Xinjiang during the Qing dynasty.[6] The meaning of the term "Hui people" gradually shifted to its current sense—a group distinguished from Han Chinese by little more than their Muslim faith and distant foreign ancestry—around 1911–49 in the Republic of China.

The area covered by China as a whole has a rich history, sometimes very dramatic, but even then, after some time changes come, and things work out.

 

[SOTTREADER]

Regarding the anti-china agenda

• It's quite clear A LOT have jumped on this opportunity to create an anti- China atmosphere (whether as part of a conscious agenda or as a result of unconscious bias). In fact, I would say this event has created a situation to reveal a lot of pent up unconscious anti-china sentiment that before had to be kept in check by the fact China was doing quite well for a VERY long time and the west had no answer.
• The CCP have both shown their strength by the fact they've literally been able to mobilise a whole country towards a certain goal and enacted a whole series of actions that other countries could only dream off but at the same time, have revealed their weekness. They have made massive blunders which is doing untold damage to their own image. They are simply not being truthful and people can sense it. They first tried to underplay it in December and it blew up in their face in January. They are now lying about numbers and it's blowing up in their face as we speak and it's being revealed to be lies by their very own actions!

Regarding this virus being compared to the flu, I don't think that's a fair assessment. To use a metaphor, if a plane drops out the sky and 600 people die, do we just brush it off and say, well, loads of people die from car accidents each year and no one freaks out (what's all this hysteria around a crashed plane?). Remember when those Boeings were falling off the sky last 18 or so months? Remember the headlines - both here and in the mainstream?

I think we would all (rightly) freak out if flu all of a sudden lead to the actions countries are taking to counter the spread of the Corona virus! We'd rightly think, 'what's going on?'

If anything, the reactions to this virus I think just shows what comes natural to humans. If something new pops up, we freak out! If something new pops up, we try and control it, if we can't control it we freak out! If something new pops up, we try to find answers, if the ptb (CCP in this case) become obtuse about it, we freak out even more! Etc etc.

 

[loreta]

Beware 'China Coronavirus' videos being shared by social media accounts like this one. It's from a Falun Gong activist based in NYC (which is where The Epoch Times operates out of, by the way). Vids are selected/slanted to reflect the sect's vehemently anti-China/pro-US views. Similar to MEK cult's 'news' about what's happening inside Iran. 'Her' videos - and the context she claims for them - are being pushed heavily by right-wing commentators on Twitter and elsewhere.

But this is what people are seeing on the TV, (this diabolic box!) My neighbours just told me that they saw these images so imagine how scare they are.

 

[thorbiorn]

We still have to account for the coincidence of Wuhan being home to China's first BSL-4, WHO-approved biolab.

Here is a comment about the structure of BSL-4 labs. This is general information about how they work. Simone Gau is the journalist and Tim Trevan is the expert.

"There Exists Systematic Problems with China's Virus Research Labs."—Tim Trevan
By Fiona Yang February 10, 2020
[...]
Simone Gao: Thank you very much Mr. Trevan for being with us. Zooming in today.

Tim Trevan: My pleasure.
[...]
Ms. Gao: Okay. Let’s talk about the lab, the virus research lab. It’s called MSB 4, (which is) the maximum security laboratory level four. Tell me about, you know, the requirements for those labs and using, there’s some worry that China might not be able to handle this, right?

Mr. Trevan: So BSL 4 labs are the highest level of security for biological laboratories. Basically they’re designed to enable safe work on the most dangerous of pathogens are the ones for which there’s no prophylaxis, no cure, no treatment and basically which transmit very easily between humans and cause a high morbidity and high mortality. The, the basic requirements for these labs is that you have controlled access into and out of the lab that the lab should be hermetically sealed. That means there should be an under pressure in the lab. The, the atmospheric pressure inside the lab should be lower than the external normal atmospheric pressure of the air so that if there is a leak in the body, in the building, the air comes from the inside, from the outside in, not from the inside out. Right. So obviously all that’s designed to keep whatever’s inside the lab, inside the lab, they have to have filtered air coming in and filtered air going out.

They have to be very frequent as changes. People who are going to the lab have to go in through an airlock system. They have to take decontaminating showers on the way in and on the way out. And so and then once they’re in the lamp, they’re working in by safety cabinets wearing full personal protective equipment. That’s the suits with the ventilator and hoods and masks and everything. So they don’t have exposed skin. They work in the bag to safety cabinets so that whatever they’re working on is worked on within that enclosed space, within the enclosed lab. And, and so that, that’s the basic requirements of working in that sort of lab. The trouble is when you create a very complex organization like that with very complex engineering as the F the, the structure of the building, very complicated equipment complicated procedures that people have to go through, then and then you’ve got a living organism that you’re working with which is not controlled, you know, it’s a living organism.

Then you have what’s called a complex adaptive system and things can go wrong that you can simply cannot foresee. So the original comments are made back in the nature article were more to do with not whether China should have these labs. I mean, China has a right to have public health labs. In fact, under the international health regulations, countries are encouraged to have a good network of labs so that all populations are close enough to a lab who can, can make diagnosis for their diseases. My question was more whether the culture that exists in Chinese government structures and in organizations is structured in a way that can learn to adapt very quickly when the rules don’t work. So in complex adaptive systems, you get things called emergent properties. These are things that you cannot forecast.

And so there you have to be able to react to the unexpected very quickly. This means that you need to organize to be able to learn quickly, which means that even the most junior person has to be able to question the decisions and knowledge of the most senior person. And it means that the most senior people have to respect and listen to all the junior people too. So that was the concern that I was stating this, that I think in these sorts of labs, not just in China, but in countries around the world, we need to get a change in management attitude from one of very hierarchical structures where the bosses say this is the only way to do it, to ones where the people doing the work understand how they have to do it safely. And when, when a new knowledge appears, they’re able then to change the system themselves to keep it safe.

Ms. Gao: According to you, the nature magazine SARS virus has been leaked from the Beijing lab multiple times. What does that tell you?

Mr. Trevan: Well, to me that if, if you have a major unintended release of a dangerous pathogen like that several times within the same organization, over a short span of time, to me it would be indicative that there’s a systemic problem there. There’s a problem with the system of management and of risk management in that facility. And so I would want to go in there if, if I were responsible for trying to prevent these, these future releases of the, the virus I’d want to go in there and study what were the core, what were the underlying causes for why people made the decisions, which led to the actions which led to the release. What were the management structures that made them think that that was the right thing to do that way. So as I say, it becomes an issue of how you learn about your organization and how you learn about the way you do things.

It is mentioned that Tim Trevan has published in Nature. Could it be one on this list

tim trevan | Nature Search Results

www.nature.com

For instance: Inside the Chinese lab poised to study world's most dangerous pathogens

 

[Niall]

Yes, it is interesting how everything China has done and is doing is framed in a negative light by some commentators on sites such as Zerohedge. If they put people in quarantine then they are authoritarian bullies.

Yeah, and he includes 5 'video reports' from 'Jennifer Zeng' in just that one update about the outbreak. She's the NYC-based Falun Gong anti-China activist I mentioned here.

 

[SHNAGFNAY]

Does anyone know about the people who are sick, how long they will remain sick? What if eventually many of them die?

From swedish newspaper Aftonbladet these numbers are reported:

Confirmed cases: 60 347
Declared well: 6 122
Dead: 1,369

I know it is not a good source, but the alex jones show has shown videos of Chinese people being beaten on the streets by law enforcement, and people dragged from their homes by medics. In one video a woman was dragged around to the ground and turned lifeless. Also a woman was shot in the head trying to escape the quarantine zone but that video I didn't really see.

 

[duyunne]

Does anyone know about the people who are sick, how long they will remain sick? What if eventually many of them die?

From swedish newspaper Aftonbladet these numbers are reported:

Confirmed cases: 60 347
Declared well: 6 122
Dead: 1,369

I know it is not a good source, but the alex jones show has shown videos of Chinese people being beaten on the streets by law enforcement, and people dragged from their homes by medics. In one video a woman was dragged around to the ground and turned lifeless. Also a woman was shot in the head trying to escape the quarantine zone but that video I didn't really see.

I've seen a few of these videos and I question the validity of the events being related to the virus or even China for that matter. Some of them could be from neighboring countries and who could know for sure? The gross raw bat videos for example have been exposed as being from Indonesia.

 

[Windmill knight]

Does anyone know about the people who are sick, how long they will remain sick? What if eventually many of them die?

That's a good question and one I've been wondering about - because the death rate of the virus depends on how we do the math. Assuming the figures are true, if we think that 1369 have died so far out of everyone who ever got it (60347), then that's like 2.2%. Not more scary than the flu, but that would assume that everyone currently sick will get well.

On the other hand, if we only count those who have had a 'resolution' by now, i.e. either died or got well, then 1369 have died out of 7491 (1369 + 6122), which is around 18%! That's quite a jump.

I suppose a lot depends on how they count their 'got well' patients, and what are the realistic prognosis of those still infected. It could be, for example, that the vast majority of those still infected are slowly getting well and most who will not recover already died, during the early stages of the illness, in which case the percentage won't go much higher than 2.2%. Or it could be the other way around - those who die do so after many days, so we can expect that many more of those already infected will die, pushing the figure up. In any case, it does seem to me that 6122 recovered patients are not that many. Does anyone know why or what a realistic death rate figure would be?

 

[adam7117]

Here's some human perspective on what is going on in Wuhan. Irrespective of all the politics, estimates and whether this is a pandemic Armageddon. Sure, it may be more of the clever, emotion-based, anti-Chinese propaganda - keep your gardening tools at hand.

Nevertheless, every human life is unique and an expression of God. Here is one experience of a person who suffered the viral infection.

What would you do in a situation like this?

'I Knocked on Hell's Door': This Is What It Feels Like to Catch the Coronavirus

'I Knocked on Hell's Door': This Is What It Feels Like to Catch the Coronavirus
Bloomberg News
14 February 2020, 02:00 GMT+10

For one coronavirus patient at ground zero of the outbreak, the journey from infection to recovery was a nightmare scenario that entailed multiple hospital visits, symptoms so severe he thought he would die and quarantine under police watch.

Tiger Ye -- not his real name -- is a 21-year-old student in Wuhan, the central Chinese city where the new, still little understood virus first emerged. Ye, who doesn’t want to be identified for fear of being ostracized, first suspected he’d caught the illness that’s spread around the world on Jan. 21, when he felt too weak to finish dinner. He checked his temperature, and it was up.

Tiger Ye at home in Wuhan on Feb. 13 after being discharged from quarantine. Source: Tiger Ye

At the time, little was known about the virus now known as 2019-nCov, but paranoia was rapidly building after authorities confirmed the highly contagious pathogen was spreading between humans in the city of 11 million. It was midnight when Ye arrived at Wuhan’s top-tier Tongji Hospital to see a waiting room filled with people like him. Feverish, he knew he would have to wait hours to be tested.

“I was scared,” he said. “Countless cases were piling up on the desks, and every single doctor was wearing protective clothes, something I’d never seen before.”

What followed was more than two weeks of anxiety and desperation as Ye tried to confirm if he had the pneumonia-causing virus and get treatment for his increasingly severe symptoms. He was one of the lucky ones, beating the sickness in part because his father -- a health care worker -- was aware of the risks earlier than most of Wuhan’s population.

Under Siege
More than 1,000 people have died from the new coronavirus in Hubei, the Chinese province that Wuhan is the capital of, as a severe shortage of hospital beds, testing kits and other basic medical equipment mean many have to stand in line for hours to get diagnosed, and some die before even seeing a doctor. China has quarantined vast swathes of Hubei, and the outbreak has caused parts of the world’s second-biggest economy to shut down as scientists across the world race to find a cure.

The night Ye first sought treatment, he was able to procure medicine from a smaller hospital nearby after abandoning the wait at Tongji. Because his symptoms weren’t classed as very severe, doctors told him to just go home and quarantine himself.

The first four days of the illness were brutal.

“I suffered from a high fever and pains that tortured every part of my body,” said Ye, who’s a big fan of Japanese culture and has ambitions of becoming a voice actor. He spent the days watching Japanese cartoons to distract from the discomfort.

‘Coughing Like I Was Going to Die’
By the time his follow-up appointment at the hospital arrived four days later, the Wuhan government had locked down the city, barring anyone from leaving to stop the virus’ spread. Everything changed in an instant: roads were empty, prices for fresh fruit and vegetables surged, and residents were unsure if they were even allowed to leave their apartments.

Ye’s condition had also deteriorated. “I was coughing like I was going to die,” he said.


A CT scan of Ye’s lungs when his condition deteriorated at Wuhan Pulmonary Hospital, Jan. 25. Source: Tiger Ye

At the hospital, multiple CT scans showed it was highly likely Ye had contracted the novel coronavirus and that it had spread to his lungs. Doctors deliberated if he qualified for a nucleic acid test, which would use the virus’ genetic sequence to confirm if he had been infected, but it was decided his case wasn’t severe enough, and the precious supply of test kits had to be reserved for more critical patients.

‘Hell’s Door’
Diagnosis has emerged as one of the major stumbling blocks in getting the virus under control in Hubei, where the number of those who fear they are infected far outweighs the capacity of hospitals to confirm if they are. On Thursday, Hubei began counting patients who were diagnosed via CT imaging alongside those who tested positive with the nucleic acid kits, resulting in a more than 45% surge in the number of confirmed cases, to nearly 50,000 people.

As Ye convalesced at home after his second hospital visit -- not knowing if he had the virus or not -- his brother and grandmother also began to show symptoms of infection. Overnight, Ye’s condition worsened to the point he thought he might die.

“I thought I was knocking on hell’s door,” he said.

Ye went back to the hospital after his temperature soared to 39 degrees Celsius (about 102 degrees Fahrenheit). Doctors put him on an iv and administered Kaletra, a combination drug used to treat HIV that has shown some success in combating the virus, bringing his temperature down to 37 degrees by the end of the day.

China Stages Clinical Trial Blitz in Search of Coronavirus Cure

A week after the symptoms first began, Ye appeared to be reaching a turning point.

Virus Confirmed
The young student’s condition was steadily improving when he finally secured one of the coveted test kits on Jan. 29. It confirmed he had the virus that’s triggered travel bans around the world. His doctor gave him a five-day course of the antiviral drug Aluvia and sent him back to his three-bedroom apartment for quarantine, in part because the hospital didn’t have enough beds to accommodate him.


Medical staff and workers set up beds as they prepare to accept patients displaying mild symptoms of novel coronavirus infection at an exhibition center converted into a hospital in Wuhan on Feb. 6. Photographer: Stringer/AFP via Getty Images

Nine days later on Feb. 7, another set of nucleic acid tests came back negative for the virus, but Ye wasn’t out of the woods. After reports that even patients who tested negative could slip into critical distress, the local government quarantined him in a hotel that had been turned into a makeshift hospital. Police stood guard outside to prevent anyone from leaving or entering.

Ye was allowed to go home five days later, ending a saga that began more than three weeks ago. He‘s thankful he survived, and salutes the doctors and nurses who put their own lives at risk to help him. Some doctors told him they suspected they had the virus, but continued to treat patients.

China’s Sick Doctors Show How Infection Breaches Fan Coronavirus

Like many Chinese, Ye is critical of the government’s response to the outbreak, especially the slow initial response from local officials that meant a precious opportunity to contain the virus early on was missed. The two most senior Communist Party cadres in Hubei were replaced Thursday, as Beijing tries to gain control of the spiraling crisis.

“Hubei has missed one opportunity after another while they were trying to keep things under wraps,” Ye said. “Things wouldn’t have come to this point if the government hadn’t hidden information a month ago.”

— With assistance by Claire Che

 

[United Gnosis]

I find this claim about satellite detecting a spike over Wuhan and then the jumping to the conclusion that it must be due to burning a lot of dead people, a little dubious.
A reason for the doubt is the outbreak of the African swine flu in August 2018 which devastated the Chinese pig population. From the numbers I gathered then China normally have about 440 million pigs. Up to half has been killed though it is hard to verify data. Some numbers have mentioned 150 million, which is only a third and perhaps more realistic. Pigs are on average the same weight as humans and would also have a similar sulphur dioxide content, I assume.

Yes. Definitely. That's why I'd love to be able to access a dataset like ___Sentinel-5P NRTI SO2: Near Real-Time Sulphur Dioxide and be able to compare over time. Saw this one which seems obsoleted ___For Our Colleagues and generally haven't been able to find good satellite imagery myself. Nevertheless, it's obvious that china would debunk the claims, but they shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

Individual pig farms can have tens of thousands of animals and if swine flu is detected all the animals are killed. In China where they are slowly getting the swine flu under control, they would have been culling and burning over a million pigs every week and often closer to 2 million pigs.

Indeed. The swine flu has been making an underground comeback in 2019, was actually starting to be called pig ebola just before coronavirus jumped on the worldstage. Unfortunately, I've found lists of producers, but no regional ranking. I do know the main hog producing region is Chengdu, and that's 300km west of Hubei. Having access to some dataset would allow to normalize and measure the impact of burning. My point is - and yes, there have been a couple instances of burning 1mil+ pigs, a handful over the last couple years. But you'd really need to place an overlay of producers/burns over the SO2 data to be able to validate that claim, because pigburning has been slow enough recently that it made the news when China had to burn a quarter million pigs in early december, somewhere near North Korea. Meanwhile, the images i saw were directly compatible with the epidemiological data/distribution of spread, with wuhan definitely burning something at full gear and guandong getting up to speed.

I don't know what they're burning. I don't know _if_ they're burning. I just know enough not to trust CCP numbers, and the SO2 image fits in and seems to confirm multiple converging perspectives. I don't believe it; it just makes more sense as a work hypothesis.
As for scaremongering accusations... come on. I dusted off my ebola survival kit, it contained vitamin C and lugol's. It's now my CoViD-19 survival kit, and I didn't even need to restock it... To be interested in inquiry is not the same as spreading FUD.

 

[United Gnosis]

Looking for fresh perspectives, I found this newsource, which seems both authentic and unslanted (besides wanting to question)
_

 

[Ina]

Yes. Definitely. That's why I'd love to be able to access a dataset like ___Sentinel-5P NRTI SO2: Near Real-Time Sulphur Dioxide and be able to compare over time. Saw this one which seems obsoleted ___For Our Colleagues and generally haven't been able to find good satellite imagery myself. Nevertheless, it's obvious that china would debunk the claims, but they shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

I don’t remember seeing any Sentinel-5P datasets on ESA, Copernicus, but I’ll have a look. Keep in touch.

 

[Aeneas]

As for scaremongering accusations... come on. I dusted off my ebola survival kit, it contained vitamin C and lugol's. It's now my CoViD-19 survival kit, and I didn't even need to restock it... To be interested in inquiry is not the same as spreading FUD.

When I used the words scaremongering it was not directed at you, but at those who in the Western media fan the fire of fear and sinophobia. On the Forum we will post things for discussions from all kinds of sources in an attempt at getting at the truth, so when something posted is criticized it does not mean that the individual poster is the subject of the attack. Otherwise, hardly anything would be posted or criticized here. Hope that helps.

It is hard to know with any certainty what is going on as the Chinese on the one hand has an interest in keeping the fear down and underplaying the numbers, while the narrative in the international media is controlled by the West, who is doing all to lambast the Chinese and to stoke the fires of fear.

When reading about how patients in China who showed symptoms of coronavirus were sent home, it was portrayed in the media as complete irresponsibility. One could argue that the Chinese due to the limited capacity were overwhelmed and thus show understanding for this response, but that has not often been the case in the MSM.

This article from Zerohedge none the less shows how serious we in the West takes this illness:

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

London Coronavirus Patient Took Uber To Hospital - Then They Sent Her Home

by Tyler Durden
Thu, 02/13/2020 - 18:15

The UK's first coronavirus patient, a Chinese national who had recently been to China, took an Uber taxi to Lewisham hospital in South London after falling ill, according to The Guardian.

Then they sent her home to wait for her lab results.
Two staff who came into contact with the woman are currently in isolation.

Lewisham hospital on Thursday confirmed the unnamed patient had not followed public health officials’ advice and had simply “self-presented” at its A&E unit on Sunday afternoon.
She did not arrive by ambulance or her own private vehicle and went straight to the A&E reception desk to report her symptoms – both clear breaches of guidance aimed at stopping the spread of the virus. -The Guardian

After she tested positive, the patient was taken to another London hospital, St. Thomas, for treatment.
"We wanted to let you know that we have had a confirmed case of coronavirus from a patient who self-presented at the A&E department of University hospital Lewisham (UHL) last Sunday (9 February)," wrote Ben Travis, chief executive of the Lewisham and Greenwich NHS trust.
"The test result was confirmed as positive yesterday (Wednesday 12 February) and we have been in touch with all staff who came into contact with the patient. The patient went to [a specialist unit at] St Thomas’ yesterday evening, so we are now able to update all staff."
Travis also described the chain of events.
"In this case, the patient self-presented at our A&E. As soon as the patient did this, the patient was given a mask and then escorted to be tested in the dedicated area we have assigned for coronavirus testing outside the A&E building – while awaiting the installation of a purpose-built ‘pod’," he wrote, adding "As further assessment was required, the patient was then taken to a dedicated isolation room in the emergency department. In line with our protocols, throughout their care the patient was escorted and did not come into contact with other patients. The patient was later discharged and taken home by London ambulance service."

Some staff were exposed to a risk of infection as a result of her walking straight into the A&E, rather than going to the ambulance bay to be met by trained doctors and nurses in hazmat suits, which is what happens with most other possible coronavirus cases.
Travis added: “All staff who had direct contact with the patient have been contacted, including two members of staff who are undergoing active surveillance at home for a 14-day period as a precautionary measure – following the advice of Public Health England.”
Contrary to previous media reports the woman did not ring the NHS 111 advice service before she went to the hospital. “If she had done that, things would have happened very differently when she got here. She wouldn’t have walked into A&E for a start and correct protocols would have been followed,” said a member of staff. -The Guardian

Not to worry, says England's Public health service! The woman was reportedly "taken to be tested by a route that avoided patients," while the Uber driver wasn't in contact with the woman very long.
"As the journey was less than 15 minutes the driver did not have close sustained contact with the individual and is not considered high risk."
Hopefully reports of contracting the hyper-virulent nCoV in just 15 seconds are false.

-------------
Is our response much better than the Chinese? If this was a highly contagious virus, like in the plague times, then it would have looked quite different unless we are about to see half of London coming down with the Corona virus in the next few months.

 

[Aeneas]

Vietnam quarantines area with 10,000 residents over coronavirus

BINH XUYEN, Vietnam: Villages in Vietnam with 10,000 people close to the nation's capital were placed under quarantine on Thursday after six cases of the deadly new coronavirus were discovered there, authorities said.

www.bangkokpost.com

Vietnam quarantines area with 10,000 residents over coronavirus

PUBLISHED : 13 FEB 2020 AT 13:46
WRITER: AFP

Vietnamese police stand guard at a checkpoint set up at the Son Loi commune in Vinh Phuc province amid concerns about a Covid-19 coronavirus outbreak.

BINH XUYEN, Vietnam: Villages in Vietnam with 10,000 people close to the nation's capital were placed under quarantine on Thursday after six cases of the deadly new coronavirus were discovered there, authorities said.
The locking down of the commune of Son Loi, about 40 kilometres from Hanoi, is the first mass quarantine outside of China since the virus emerged from a central Chinese city late last year.
"As of February 13, 2020, we will urgently implement the task of isolation and quarantine of the epidemic area in Son Loi commune," said a health ministry statement.

"The timeline... is for 20 days".
Son Loi is a farming region made up of several villages.

• Vietnam quarantines area with 10,000 residents over coronavirus
• Vietnam locks down 10,000 people over coronavirus
• Virus update: China tries dramatic reset

The health ministry previously said five people in Son Loi had been infected with the virus, and on Thursday reported a sixth case.

On Thursday, checkpoints were set up around the commune, according to AFP reporters in Binh Xuyen, a district on the outskirts of Son Loi.
Health officials wearing protective suits sprayed disinfectant on vehicles by the checkpoints.
Villager Tran Van Minh told AFP that authorities had already advised residents to avoid large gatherings.
"Life has been badly affected," he told AFP by phone, adding that much of the labour force is reliant on jobs in construction and house painting.
"Now we cannot get out and even if we do, clients don't welcome us that much as before."
More than 1,350 people have died in China from the virus, and nearly 60,000 others have been infected, since it was first detected in the Hubei province in early January.
China has imposed unprecedented quarantines across Hubei, locking in about 56 million people, in a bid to stop it spreading.
Tens of millions of others cities far from the epicentre are also enduring travel restrictions.
The virus has also had massive ramifications globally, with many countries banning travellers from China in a bid to stop people spreading the disease.
Vietnam, which shares a porous border with China, has 16 confirmed cases of the coronavirus, inclyding those in Son Loi.
Vietnam had banned all flights to and from mainland China in a bid to stop the virus from spreading.
It also suspended new tourist visas for Chinese nationals or foreigners who had been in China over the past two weeks.

 

[thorbiorn]

Earlier in the thread, I made an experiment translating a term from English to Chinese, followed by using the Chinese search engine baidu.com to find results, and then finally translating the results back into English through the translation feature in a Google based browser engine. I have not found out which translation engine is the best for translating.

Today I tried to experiment with the term "novel coronavirus" and "coronavirus" In the search results I found stark difference between Google.com and Baidu.com Other engines to try could be yahoo.com which from my location was surprisingly different to Google, or bing.com, duckduckgo.com, startpage.com (powered by Google, but more unspecific to country from where one searches) and yandex.com

I did not try more than a handful of terms, but when one searches using Baidu, then like on Google, there are suggestions for other possible terms one could try. Inspired by these "Baidu suggestions", I came up with some others, ordered them and translated them into Chinese for those who would like to try this approach.

First is "novel coronavirus" with various options:

0. novel coronavirus
novel coronavirus 2019-nCov
novel coronavirus 2019-nCov studies
novel coronavirus administration
novel coronavirus cases
5. novel coronavirus Communist Party of China
novel coronavirus control
novel coronavirus doctors
novel coronavirus education
novel coronavirus economy
10. novel coronavirus factories closed
novel coronavirus factories reopen
novel coronavirus false information
novel coronavirus government
novel coronavirus handwritten report
15. novel coronavirus infected
novel coronavirus-infected pneumonia
novel coronavirus infection rate
novel coronavirus latest news
novel coronavirus lockdown
20. novel coronavirus lockdown cities
novel coronavirus lockdown lifted
novel coronavirus mortality
novel coronavirus mortality rate
novel coronavirus most affected
25. novel coronavirus new cases
novel coronavirus news
novel coronavirus origin
novel coronavirus prevention
novel coronavirus public
30. novel coronavirus public statement
novel coronavirus propaganda
novel coronavirus police
novel coronavirus recovery rate
novel coronavirus social media
35. novel coronavirus spread
novel coronavirus studies
novel coronavirus symptoms
novel coronavirus video

The above words in Chinese according to the engine:

0. 新型冠状病毒
新型冠状病毒2019-nCov
新型冠状病毒2019-nCov研究
新型冠状病毒管理
新型冠状病毒病例
5. 新型中国共产党冠状病毒
新型冠状病毒控制
新型冠状病毒医生
新型冠状病毒教育
新型冠状病毒经济
10. 新型冠状病毒工厂关闭
新型冠状病毒工厂重新开放
新型冠状病毒虚假信息
新型冠状病毒政府
新型冠状病毒手写报告
15. 感染的新型冠状病毒
新型冠状病毒感染性肺炎
新型冠状病毒感染率
新型冠状病毒最新消息
新型冠状病毒锁定
20. 新型冠状病毒封锁城市
新型冠状病毒锁定解除
新型冠状病毒死亡率
新型冠状病毒死亡率
受影响最大的新型冠状病毒
25. 新型冠状病毒新病例
新型冠状病毒新闻
新型冠状病毒来源
新型冠状病毒预防
新型冠状病毒公
30 新型冠状病毒公开声明
新型冠状病毒宣传
新型冠状病毒警察
新型冠状病毒回收率
新型冠状病毒社交媒体
35 新型冠状病毒传播
新型冠状病毒研究
新型冠状病毒症状
新型冠状病毒视频

And next is coronavirus with variations

0. coronavirus
coronavirus 2019-nCov
coronavirus 2019-nCov studies
coronavirus administration
coronavirus cases
5. coronavirus Communist Party of China
coronavirus control
coronavirus doctors
coronavirus education
coronavirus economy
10. coronavirus factories closed
coronavirus factories reopen
coronavirus false information
coronavirus government
coronavirus handwritten report
15. coronavirus infected
coronavirus-infected pneumonia
coronavirus infection rate
coronavirus latest news
coronavirus lockdown
20. coronavirus lockdown cities
coronavirus lockdown lifted
coronavirus mortality
coronavirus mortality rate
coronavirus most affected
25. coronavirus new cases
coronavirus news
coronavirus origin
coronavirus prevention
coronavirus public
30. coronavirus public statement
coronavirus propaganda
coronavirus police
coronavirus recovery rate
coronavirus social media
35. coronavirus spread
coronavirus studies
coronavirus symptoms
coronavirus video
The above words in Chinese according to the engine:
0. 冠状病毒
冠状病毒2019-nCov
冠状病毒2019-nCov研究
冠状病毒管理
冠状病毒病例
5. 中国共产党的冠状病毒
冠状病毒控制
冠状病毒医生
冠状病毒教育
冠状病毒经济
10. 冠状病毒工厂关闭
冠状病毒工厂重新开放
冠状病毒的虚假信息
冠状病毒政府
冠状病毒手写报告
15. 感染冠状病毒
冠状病毒感染性肺炎
冠状病毒感染率
冠状病毒最新消息
冠状病毒封锁
20. 冠状病毒封锁城市
冠状病毒封锁解除
冠状病毒死亡率
冠状病毒死亡率
受影响最严重的冠状病毒
25. 冠状病毒新病例
冠状病毒新闻
冠状病毒来源
冠状病毒预防
冠状病毒公众
30 冠状病毒公开声明
冠状病毒宣传
冠状病毒警察
冠状病毒回收率
冠状病毒社交媒体
35 冠状病毒传播
冠状病毒研究
冠状病毒症状
冠状病毒视频

In addition to the possibilities above, one could try "New Crown pneumonia", as that is a term that appeared when some of the Chinese I found, was translated into English. I then translated "New Crown pneumonia" back to Chinese and it became 新冠肺炎 When this word in entered into the Baidu search engine, the top hit was an explanation and even the abbreviation of "novel corona pneumonia" to "NCP", so based on these terms one could make up still other words to enter into the search engines.

New Crown pneumonia _ Baidu encyclopedia
Novel coronavirus pneumonia,“the Novel coronavirus pneumonia”, referred to as “NCP”, and referred to as the “new Crown pneumonia”, refers to the 2019 New coronavirus infection causing the pneumonia is. 2019 12 months, Wuhan, Hubei Province Department of...
The characteristics of the virus route of transmission clinical manifestations diagnosis and treatment programme discharge criteria safeguards notice the latest rumor more>>
百度百科_全球最大中文百科全书

The above in Chinese and for clarity I bolded the Chinese expression for "New Crown pneumonia", to facilitate the identification of the word within the text.

肺炎_百度百科
新型冠状病毒肺炎（“Novel coronavirus pneumonia”，简称“NCP”），简称“新冠肺炎”，是指2019新型冠状病毒感染导致的肺炎。2019年12月以来，湖北省武汉市部...
病毒特征 传播途径 临床表现 诊疗方案 出院标准 保障通知 最新辟谣 更多>>
百度百科_全球最大中文百科全书

In short, there are really quite a number of ways learning how this disease is mentioned in Chinese medias.