Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

[SOTTREADER]

You said "avalanche of information". Maybe an avalanche of misinformation? You should read articles that come from good pages and are seriously analysing the situation, like Sott.net.

Never forget that many, many people in Internet can play a role of a doctor. And surely they are part of the Plan to vaccinate everyone. How much are they payed to scare people?

I think labelling something you don't agree with as misinformation may not be the way to go. SOTT is labelled a misinformation site in some quarters you know ;)

SOTT on the subject of Covid-19 moves slow... The situation on covid moves quick and what attracted me to SOTT in the first place was the need to know different perspectives... So likewise on Covid, I'm checking different sources that move slightly quicker to get different perspectives which shift and change as the landscape changes. To put it simply, I want to know what is coming - for example, people who you have labelled as misinformation in January said there will be mass hysteria when covid hit the west and the supermarkets will get raided. I'm therefore not surprised by what's happening out there as I've been hearing people say it for months now before it actually hit.

As to misinformation, of course, one must always filter the information you get... People are driven by different motives including SOTT ;) but we all have brains to make up our own minds, weigh the information and take what we think is useful from it. I don't think it's a question of accept or reject everything, you can accept something's and reject others.

Also one doesn't want to live in an echo chamber just listening to the things that make you comfortable. Personally I take everything the 'this is just a flu' crowd says into account but I'm not seeing enough convincing stuff come from there... But I'm listening and keeping tabs on both sides. I think the next 2 - 4 months will be big and will show which camp read the situation correctly.

Also for some doctors I posted disclaimers regarding their background (e.g Dr Gottlieb) and the Dr in that channel 4 clip also was openly questioned about his background. For now I'm not outright dismissing a doctor because they might have some links to some vaccines... I'm still going to listen to what he/she is saying and weigh it up against what others are saying plus also what's actually happening out there. For example Dr Gottlieb as early as Feb was saying there was undetected community spread in the US and things will hit the fan of the gov didn't get their act together. We're 6 weeks in and cases are popping up all over the US that can't be traced to an outside source, which again shouldn't come as a surprise if one listened to the Dr.

 

[Glenn]

Indeed, it almost sounds like it. I'm curious SOTTREADER, how did you come to the impression/conclusion/judgement you have expressed above about China? I suspect as Aeneas did above, that a substantial amount of this judgement might be based on a bias against China primarily informed by the crude, oversimplified and often wrong picture western outlets have painted China in and "what they are doing".

...

I asked more or less the same questions, as have many others.
His answer to me was that the reliability or trust of the source is not important, or relevant. Just that it is the official source.

Apologies HELLOH20, I'm confused, I'm not sure if it's a matter of trust or not.

The numbers are just the official numbers. They are what they are. They are the numbers that get reported daily which have been collated into a single location to make it easier to see the whole official image as it evolves daily. That's pretty much it.

 

[SOTTREADER]

@Hello H2O I'm sorry, I'm confused again. You asked me about the official daily numbers and I said they were what they were. I don't come up with the official numbers!

Pashalis asked me whether I have an anti China bias. I don't see how the 2 questions are related?

In any case, I didn't answer Pashalis' question as I don't want to get baited into a situation that's just going to cost me untold emotional energy to deal with.

The short answer is no, I don't have an anti China bias but I'm not happy they introduced covid-19 to the world and now we all have to deal with it.

 

[SummerLite]

It looks more and more like a big social engineering experiment. Out of curiosity I went to see if people were buying vitamine C and D, but no, they prefer masks and hand gels.

Well... this doesn't surprise me to much. Where I live, it seems like I'm the only person whose known about and is using Vit C, for years. Its been a long process to inform my family who are finally catching on. The shut down on Vit C has been very successful. Most believe the propaganda that a dose over 1000mg will be peed out or cause diarrhea. The same ignorance applies to cell phones, wifi and all cordless devises. The case for authoritarian followers I guess. Trying to inform others has mainly left me feeling like I'm seen as a nut case and "where's your credentials or PHD?"

As far as all the new cases appearing in the US mentioned by SOTTREADER, I wonder if these have been diagnosed with a specific test to identify this particular virus.

We're 6 weeks in and cases are popping up all over the US that can't be traced to an outside source, which again shouldn't come as a surprise if one listened to the Dr.

 

[Guest 15258]

SOTT on the subject of Covid-19 moves slow... The situation on covid moves quick and what attracted me to SOTT in the first place was the need to know different perspectives... So likewise on Covid, I'm checking different sources that move slightly quicker to get different perspectives which shift and change as the landscape changes. To put it simply, I want to know what is coming - for example, people who you have labelled as misinformation in January said there will be mass hysteria when covid hit the west and the supermarkets will get raided. I'm therefore not surprised by what's happening out there as I've been hearing people say it for months now before it actually hit.

Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers, as the C's say. As long as you keep an open mind and don't fall into the trap of thinking you know everything, then I think you're in a good position.

Also, is this forum pro China?

I'm very much anti-China, I think they embody the very STS nature and draconian state tendencies that the Cassiopaean people have been working against for years now. Why is this thinking wrong?

 

[liam1310]

More dangerous than Coronavirus is the Panic virus that is spreading already globally. Considering that this Coronavirus is rather harmless, what happens if it will be the real thing?

That's what I'm concerned about more than whats happening now, has we have seen, people lose there minds rather quickly. At least we can learn something by observing this. I'm gonna start canning food again

 

[Aeneas]

people who you have labelled as misinformation in January said there will be mass hysteria when covid hit the west and the supermarkets will get raided

That prediction was not hard to pull out as it was a prediction of the Panic virus and it's effect. It was not a prediction about the Covid virus! Due to the panic virus mass hysteria will ensue and supermarkets will get raided. That prediction was made by the good doctor, while he was also himself fuelling the panic virus. In my book that does not validate him as an oracle of sound information. The observable data at the moment of the covid virus is underwhelming, but that can change.

 

[mgb]

This is a good article on the manipulations being used to induce panic about the virus:




Bookmark the permalink. Coronavirus: the definition of “cases” is producing a new level of illusion
Mar5 by Jon Rappoport


by Jon Rappoport
March 5, 2020
(To join our email list, click here.)
Buckle up. We’re not riding on a smooth superhighway. These roads are extremely bumpy and rough.
Public health agencies and the press are casting out a blizzard of confusing terms:
presumptive cases, infected persons, asymptomatic persons, confirmed cases, containment measures, persons connected to persons who are infected…
It is my understanding that, now, the CDC is lumping together presumptive cases and confirmed cases, and calling them: CASES.
Certainly, that strategy would immediately multiply the total number of CASES and also multiply fear among the uninformed population.
A presumptive case would be a person who has not been tested for the coronavirus; or he has been tested, but the results are not yet in.
Why is he a presumptive case in the first place? There could be several reasons. He has ordinary flu-like symptoms, and his doctor suspects he might be infected by the coronavirus, for no particular reason. He might have come in contact with a person who has been diagnosed as an epidemic case. He might have recently traveled to China—and has or doesn’t have flu-like symptoms. Maybe he has a slight cough…
You can see that “presumptive” is a quite shaky status. It means next to nothing. Nevertheless, in order to “contain the spread of the virus,” he is pinned with that label—and added to the total of CASES.
The press, looking for the next piece of click-bait, sees that, in a particular state or city, there are “25 CASES.” A reporter writes an article. The public is led to sense that, in that locale, a “spread” is occurring. No distinction is made between confirmed case and presumptive case.
Suppose, in a nursing home, where a hundred residents have all sorts of long-term health problems—including flu-like symptoms and respiratory difficulties—two people have been labeled “presumptive cases,” because they were visited by a person who recently returned from China. Now, there is an opportunity to label more residents of the nursing home “presumptive,” because they’re in daily contact with the two “presumptive residents.” Result? There are 13 “presumptive cases,” and when the press discovers this, they characterize the 13 as CASES.
But it gets a lot worse than that. As I’ve been detailing in these pages, the basic test for the coronavirus is called the PCR. A positive result is taken to mean the patient “has the virus.” He is now a confirmed case. However, the PCR has many problems.
The procedure itself is tricky, and unless done perfectly, with great care to avoid contamination, the result is useless. But even when the test is perfect, it says nothing about whether the patient is ill or will ever become ill. Why? Because the PCR never comes to a valid conclusion about how much virus is in the patient’s body actively replicating. And in order to start talking about illness and disease, millions and millions of virus must be at work replicating inside the patient.
Going even further down the rabbit hole, how was the PCR test for the coronavirus developed in the first place? We seem to have an answer from the CDC, offered up to reporters in a February 28 press briefing. A Dr. Messonnier, representing the CDC, said this in reply to a question:
“…please remember that our laboratories developed this [PCR] test kit before there were US cases. We developed it based on the posted genetic sequencing, and it was this test kit that allowed us, to identify the first cases in the United States.”
What does this mean? It seems to means that the CDC accepted the genetic sequence of the “new virus” without having an actual isolated specimen of the virus itself. Is that a problem?
If the police receive a description of a car wreck on a local highway (the sequence), should they travel to the scene and actually look at the wreck (obtain an isolated specimen of the virus)? Should they decide who was at fault (diagnose the first US cases) without investigating (having the actual virus itself in their possession)?
Researchers claiming they’ve laid out the genetic sequence of a virus, and passing the information along to colleagues, is not what you would call proof of anything. Those original researchers could have sequenced another virus. They could have made mistakes. Did THEY ever have an isolated specimen of the virus?
Developing and using a diagnostic PCR test on humans, and then telling them whether they are “victims of the epidemic,” based on received genetic sequences alone, is more than irresponsible. It’s entirely reckless.
If you’ve come this far in the article, and you’re beginning to feel that the whole system of diagnosing people with THE VIRUS is madness, I would agree with you.
Categories of cases are being deceptively juggled and merged, in order to inflate numbers.
The “gold standard” diagnostic test is fraught with difficulties, and is inherently useless.
And lurking behind all this is the question: who discovered the coronavirus in the first place, and did they ever have an actual specimen of it, a biological reality; or, working from indirect “markers,” were THEY the PRESUMPTIVES, blithely assuming their genetic sequences pointed to an entity that actually exists?

 

[angelburst29]

Basically what many people suffer from right now in terms of the Coronavirus is perfectly described in Kahneman's book
"Thinking, Fast And Slow" as the fast thinking/acting pathway, which by nature can't understand/fathom things like statistical baselines in order to come to sound, true and objective conclusions about any given subject, be it personal (toward one's own thinking/conclusions about self and environment for example) or on a social scale level.

Or in other words; large portions of the media/public/mainstream/political class/society are currently actively engaging - enforcing the fast thinking pathway that is often informed by raw emotions (described by Kahneman), in regard to this Coronavirus. In general, the fast thinking pathway is most often the easier and not very painful route. Compared to that, the slow thinking pathway takes longer and needs quite some effort that can feel like real physical pain to the brain since it has to battle wrong emotions/thinking patterns/conclusions.

Pashalis, I think you have hit upon the exact technique WHO's Chief Tedros has been using to hype up the Coronavirus scare with his daily reports. It's kind of like a yo-yo effect with "trails blazing" one moment, and then he back tracks, then hype's up the drama again. It was mainly through WHO, after China enforced a lockdown in Wuhan that Countries decided to evacuate their citizen's within China and fly them back home. Many of them were not tested or quarantined, which is probably what has spread the Covid-19 - outside of China? Factbox: Countries evacuating nationals from coronavirus-hit areas

Stop assuming coronavirus behaves like the flu: WHO (Video)
Stop assuming coronavirus behaves like the flu: WHO
Ryan made the comments during a press conference at the WHO headquarters. The United Nations agency has been holding frequent media briefings over the outbreak. It also came as the number of infections worldwide reached 100,000 confirmed cases, and spikes in the United States and Italy. He was speaking alongside WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who said nations needed to make containment their "highest priority."

Nearly 100,000 coronavirus cases reported globally, says WHO chief
Nearly 100,000 coronavirus cases reported globally, says WHO chief
"In the past 24 hours, 2,736 cases of COVID-19 were reported from 47 countries and territories. There is now a total of 98,023 reported cases globally and 3,380 deaths," he stated. "We are now on the verge of reaching 100,000 confirmed cases." So far, WHO has received applications for review and approval of 40 diagnostic tests, 20 vaccines are in development and many clinical trials of therapeutics are underway," Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus informed.

COVID-19 epidemic can be pushed back with concerted approach: WHO
The epidemic of COVID-19 coronavirus infection spreading around the world can be contained and controlled, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Thursday, but only with a concerted response by all governments.

China's handling of the situation has been based on experience and protocols used during the SARS scare. I don't know why Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz is suggesting Countries "adopt Italy-style virus steps" to contain the COVID-19 virus? I don't picture Kurz as being too smart or ambitious, anyways. Just another clown.

China will ease restrictions in Wuhan and Hubei when situation improves
Authorities will ease restrictions in Wuhan, the center of the coronavirus outbreak which is still in lockdown, when situation improves, a senior government official said on Friday.

More countries will have to adopt Italy-style virus steps: Austria's Kurz

It is only a matter of time until more European countries adopt the kind of aggressive steps that Italy is taking to combat the spread of the coronavirus, Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said on Sunday.

Moscow has called a "“high alert regime” and imposed extra measures to contain any outbreaks.

Moscow city: people ignoring coronavirus self-isolation rules could face prison
Moscow city authorities threatened prison terms of up to five years on Sunday for people failing to self-isolate in their homes for two weeks after visiting countries hit hard by the coronavirus outbreak.

The city government had announced a “high alert regime” and imposed extra measures on Thursday to prevent a spread of the illness in the Russian capital.

Those who return from China, South Korea, Iran, France, Germany, Italy and Spain and other states showing possible “unfavorable” signs of coronavirus should self-isolate themselves at home for 14 days, Moscow city hall has said.

The Moscow healthcare department said on Sunday that those disregarding the regulation risked severe punishment including imprisonment of up to five years.

It said authorities would be checking self-isolation through use of closed circuit TV cameras.

In an information sheet, the department said it was OK for residents in self-isolation to walk their dog, but at a time when there are fewest people in the streets, and wearing a face mask.

There have been 15 cases of coronavirus infections reported in Russia so far.

I'm not sure "what Netanyahu's involvement is" in this Coronavirus outbreak but I'm sure he'll use the circumstances to his personal advantage? VP Pence called him earlier today and it's to be followed up by another call today. Reports are stating Italy has been hard hit by COVID-19 and has taken some aggressive steps but I wonder if it might be a diversion of some type? In the back of my mind, I'm reminded that the Pentagon has a large military base in Italy, Camp Darby. Lock downs and quarantine's could be perfect cover for a Military build up? Pompeo and Esper are still in Afghanistan, working out the Peace Treaty between the Taliban and the U.S. as an excuse? I have a feeling, the Pentagon is building up forces?

List of United States Army installations in Italy - Wikipedia
A 1951 US-Italian agreement conceded to the Pentagon the transformation of thousands of acres of Tuscan woods in a secret military base. The complex is named in honour of William O. Darby, founder of the US 1st Ranger Battalion, who died on the battlefield in Italy in 1945.

Israel's Netanyahu discusses coronavirus concerns with Pence

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu discussed coronavirus concerns with U.S. Vice President Mike Pence on Sunday amid reports Israel is about to restrict the entry of travelers from parts of the United States.

Both men agreed to follow up their telephone call with discussions later on Sunday between U.S. and Israeli health officials on technological and scientific cooperation and ways to “confront the challenges” posed by the virus, Netanyahu’s office said in a statement.

Pence is leading the U.S. federal response to the coronavirus after the Republican administration was criticized for sending mixed messages and unpreparedness.

Israeli media have reported that Israel, which has had 25 cases of the virus, is considering restricting the entry of visitors from several U.S. states where the illness has spread.

Israel’s Health Ministry has scheduled a news conference for later on Sunday on measures it is taking against what Netanyahu has described as a global pandemic.

Israel has already ordered travelers from Germany, France, Spain, Andorra, San Marino, Austria, Switzerland, Macau, Hong Kong, China, France, Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Thailand to go into home quarantine.

The measure effectively cut off tourism from those countries and led some foreign airlines to suspend their flights to Israel.

Iranian revolutionary guard chief claims coronavirus may be a US biological weapon
Nearly 100,000 coronavirus cases reported globally, says WHO chief
Cases of coronavirus have been reported in over 80 countries and territories, with the largest outbreaks of COVID-19 outside of China being detected in South Korea, Iran and Italy

China publishes coronavirus patients autopsy results, says infection sources determined
Nearly 100,000 coronavirus cases reported globally, says WHO chief
MOSCOW, March 4, 2020 - China’s National Health Commission has published autopsy results for deceased coronavirus patients, and claimed that infection sources have been determined, Xinhua agency reported Wednesday.

The article provides data on infection degree and pathological changes of lungs, and reports significant shrinkage of spleen and degradation of myocardial cells. The report notes that the coronavirus was found in the human excretory system, which might also serve as the source of contact and aerosol infection mechanism.

Aerosol infection mechanism implies transmission of the virus while talking, coughing and sneezing. It also includes the dust transmission, when dust particles containing the virus get inside the lungs of a healthy human.

Besides, Chinese researchers have discovered two subtypes of the novel coronavirus with different virulence, Beijing Daily reported Wednesday citing Chinese Academy of Sciences.

The researches have examined 103 coronavirus specimen and discovered that it underwent 149 mutations an evolved into two subtypes - S-and L-type. These subtypes were discovered in 101 specimen, and 70% of those were L-type, while 30% were S-type.

The L-type is more virulent, the research says.

The S-type coronavirus resembles more the virus found in bats. The researchers believe that the S-type is an "old" version of the coronavirus.

During the early days of the outbreak in Wuhan, the L-type was widespread, but after the first week, its incidence reduced.

About the infection: A pneumonia outbreak caused by the COVID-19 virus (previously known as 2019-nCoV) was reported in China’s Wuhan, a large trade and industrial center with a population of 12 million, in late December. The World Health Organization (WHO) declared the new coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency of international concern, describing it as an epidemic with multiple locations. Besides China, major coronavirus outbreaks have been reported in South Korea, Iran and Italy. More than 70 countries, including Russia, have reported confirmed coronavirus cases.

In China, which accounts for the majority of the novel coronavirus cases, the death toll is nearing 3,000, while almost 80,000 people have been infected and another 50,000 have recovered. According to the WHO, the number of coronavirus sufferers outside China has exceeded 10,500 and more than 160 have died.

Chinese researchers discover two different subtypes of the COVID-19 coronavirus
Chinese researchers discover two different subtypes of the COVID-19 coronavirus
The L-type is more virulent, according to the research

 

[Corvus]

More dangerous than Coronavirus is the Panic virus that is spreading already globally. Considering that this Coronavirus is rather harmless, what happens if it will be the real thing?

What you see in the movies and what the prepper community was talking about for years. Those kind of "people" will eat you alive if given a chance for a few bread crumbs....

 

[SOTTREADER]

That prediction was not hard to pull out as it was a prediction of the Panic virus and it's effect. It was not a prediction about the Covid virus! Due to the panic virus mass hysteria will ensue and supermarkets will get raided. That prediction was made by the good doctor, while he was also himself fuelling the panic virus. In my book that does not validate him as an oracle of sound information. The observable data at the moment of the covid virus is underwhelming, but that can change.

I think the data points to the opposite direction.

1 month ago Iran had no problem. Look at it now?

2 weeks ago Italy didn't have a problem. Look at it now?

The virus is highly transmissible - look at the diamond princess.

2 weeks ago, the EU only had isolated cases, now seperate countries have uncontrolled epidemics within their borders.

The top 3 countries in the EU after Italy - Germany, France and Spain are now getting confirmed cases in the hundreds each day. Soon that will be thousands - soon as in a matter of weeks. The UK, Switzerland etc aren't far behind either.

The this is the flu crowd will still say the numbers are too small compared to flu... That's the only argument whilst more people have to go to hospital, as more health professionals get infected, as hospitals start to triage cases because they can't tend to everyone etc. At that point the economy will grind to a halt whether anyone likes it or not and measures will be put into place to manage the situation.

This is the reality. There's no escaping it, the this is just flu crowd will be dragged into that reality kicking and screaming but that's the reality. Not sure how else to put it... This is what is happening! What we have to do now is just get psychologically ready to face that reality as that's what is coming. Again, not sure how else to put it other than to say it's going to happen that way. Italy tried to avoid that by taking token gestures and now they are forced to go semi full mode in the hope the situation is rescued but it's probably not enough and also it's a bit too late in the day...! The situation is as it is!

 

[neema]

I really don't understand the whole toilet paper thing. Personally I don't use toilet paper, haven't used them for all my life. I use a portable bidet, AKA plastic bottle!

As i always say, never trust anyone who cant touch their own Sh**!

On a lighter note this whole Carny virus, reminds me of years back when I was an extra for a tv show called Jeremiah.

From the show plot line:

The year is 2021, 15 years after a plague has killed nearly everyone over the age of thirteen (both the event and the virus itself are referred to as "The Big Death" and "The Big D"). Two young men, Jeremiah and Kurdy, meet up and join forces with those inside "Thunder Mountain" and help rebuild civilization. Jeremiah is searching for the "Valhalla Sector" where his father may still be alive.[2]

The eponymous Jeremiah is a semi-loner who has spent the last 15 years traveling back and forth across the United States, seeking out a living and looking for a place called "Valhalla Sector" (the remains of Raven Rock), which his father—a viral researcher—had mentioned to Jeremiah as a possible refuge shortly before disappearing into the chaos of "the Big Death."

I remember in one particular episode called the "The Touch", the main characters visit a village where physical contact is outlawed.

Its interesting how the collective mass consensus always plays out all the possible future patterns beforehand.

 

[Deleted member 9511]

As mentioned in a previous post, I'm curious about folks lining themselves up on one or the other side of this debate. The information is muddled. The C's, in the recent session, did not clarify much.

22 February 2020 Session
Q: (Joe) Give us a percentage of the coronavirus becoming a REAL pandemic in the sense of global and LOTS of people dying.

A: Low.

Q: (Joe) That's what I thought. It's something else.

(L) But that doesn't mean that there's not another one waiting in the wings that's really serious.

A: Yes

22 February 2020 Session
Q: (L) Okay, next topic? Is the new coronavirus:
A) an American or Chinese-engineered virus, like an ethnic-specific weapon
B) from outer space
C) just a natural progression of viral evolution and/or mutation

(Andromeda) Or:
D) a combination because of this vaccine that got out of control and it mutated on its own

A: D

Q: (L) So they were messing around making vaccines, and something got loose...

(Artemis) IT GOT OUT! [laughter]

(Gaby) It's like the start of a bad movie.

(Andromeda) And then once it got out, it mutated.

(L) And there ya go.

(Niall) Does that then explain the Chinese response to it?

A: Yes

Q: (Joe) They're worried about it, but it's not gonna go anywhere.

(L) They're worried that it could further mutate and cause a real pandemic, but the odds are low.

A: Yes

There is discussion in this thread and elsewhere about which sources are authoritative and which ones are not. While one could say the default authority here is the C's, they also encourage follow up and critical thinking. Without the benefit of an exhaustive search of session transcripts, I recall their tendency to be somewhat vague in responses, even misleading if it serves a greater purpose, with an underlying intent of promoting learning and growth. Hard lessons are often learned best, so sending someone on a wild goose chase (i.e. what seems to me as Gurdjieff's MO), has the benefit of forcing a student to look at themselves and their biases.

The C's said low probability that the coronavirus, at least as manifested on the date of that session, that this coronovirus causes a real pandemic, which itself is not well-defined, but I guess we all know what that means. Well, as mentioned previously in this thread (don't remember the exact reference, sorry), humans ain't great as acting on statistical information. My guess? Smart people are worse at it because they bias their smartness towards being able to see above the fray. So a smart person who has a bias against the pandemic scenario would see low probability as a statement confirming their position.

So, what am I getting at?

In this case, in what to me is a clear case of wildly unsubstantiated claims on both sides, it's hard to definitively take on side or the other as to whether or not this is a REAL pandemic or a warm-up for something else. The Sott team has come down fairly hard on the "just another flu" hypothesis. Joe (really, not trying to throw anyone under the bus, so apologies in advance) specifically responded during the session in a way that I inferred was to confirm his preconceived notion about coronavirus. It's not big deal if he did. We all do it. Other so-called mystical sources that I trust are also on record that we are entering a very difficult period for humanity. So far, regardless of the nature of this particular pathogen, it's looking prophetic. Given that the C's have had a good record, why not take that low probability and make it zero probability?

Honestly, I don't know except for my own experience and reaction, including taking at length with my family about it for the last few weeks. Then just this last week I was freaked out because I caught a bug right when this thing was hitting US shores, and the last thing I wanted was to spread it myself. After sitting with it for a few days, literally, I can't see it one way or the other. All I know is I caught something, it's minor but not asymptomatic, I don't know where I got it, and there is a "low" but apparently non-zero risk that this thing could get nasty. From here all I can say is, we'll see.

So, I'm curious. Why does the Sott team seem to be so heavy on one side of the debate? "Low" probability is not nil probability, and there doesn't seem to be an effort to disprove the hypothesis (which is what I thought scientific inquiry was supposed to do) on their part. I'm just asking.

What this all is to me, and I mean all of it - pick a thread on this forum or any forum on any website, really, pick any news feed, or not even news, just daily stuff we go through - ALL of it is there to teach us something about ourselves. From my perspective anyway, this Cosmic game is one of self-realization. The best teaching I know is "serve and learn." The underlying motif of much of the Cassiopaean experiment is understanding this interesting dynamic of STS vs STO. Well, what self are we talking about? It's why the process of atma vichara taught by Ramana Maharshi has been so important to me. It's how I contextualize all questions: "Who am I? What about so and so? How does that relate to me? Who's asking?" In other words, atma vichara is the direct inquiry into the nature of self. Not myself, or yourself, but the categorical self before any other sub-categorical things arise on top of said self - such things being the dreaded "identities" of identity politics. Categories like "other-than-self" are confusing when deep into an atma vichara meditation, and over time such practice creates an amorphous boundary between self and other. And, when you can't see through your own BS? That's due to shadow self. The punchline in this thread? I wonder to what extent is the Chateau-self playing this game. Does it really matter what side of the argument to make? I don't think so. I think instead it only matters how we contextualize it with respect to self-realization. (FWIW, I don't use call this process growth, because the Self I refer to doesn't grow, rather, the identities fall away and Self is revealed "as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be."

 

[WIN 52]

I think

Correct!
Here we rely on reading, researching and understanding issues from all of the information about the issue.

 

[loreta]

I think the data points to the opposite direction.

1 month ago Iran had no problem. Look at it now?

2 weeks ago Italy didn't have a problem. Look at it now?

The virus is highly transmissible - look at the diamond princess.

2 weeks ago, the EU only had isolated cases, now seperate countries have uncontrolled epidemics within their borders.

The top 3 countries in the EU after Italy - Germany, France and Spain are now getting confirmed cases in the hundreds each day. Soon that will be thousands - soon as in a matter of weeks. The UK, Switzerland etc aren't far behind either.

The this is the flu crowd will still say the numbers are too small compared to flu... That's the only argument whilst more people have to go to hospital, as more health professionals get infected, as hospitals start to triage cases because they can't tend to everyone etc. At that point the economy will grind to a halt whether anyone likes it or not and measures will be put into place to manage the situation.

This is the reality. There's no escaping it, the this is just flu crowd will be dragged into that reality kicking and screaming but that's the reality. Not sure how else to put it... This is what is happening! What we have to do now is just get psychologically ready to face that reality as that's what is coming. Again, not sure how else to put it other than to say it's going to happen that way. Italy tried to avoid that by taking token gestures and now they are forced to go semi full mode in the hope the situation is rescued but it's probably not enough and also it's a bit too late in the day...! The situation is as it is!

I really think you need to take a long breath and calm yourself. Maybe stop one day or two to read about Coronavirus. Play with your kids, read a good novel, play with your dog, if you have one. Try to leave a little time the obsession of the Coronavirus. To be obsessed by it (in a scare and negative way) it is not good at all, it can put you sick. Maybe it will be terrible, maybe not. Who knows? There is a life apart from the Coronavirus, you know. Try to read good articles that put in perspective this subject, articles that say what is more real, that are nearer reality. What you look is not reality, it is, I think so, a play to scare.

It is a play with actors, with a lot of money behind the scene, billions of dollars. It is a plan, with an A and a B and a C and etc. Everything is controlled by some directors. Is there danger? The danger will be the vaccines, that's for sure. And the banks that will close. But Coronavirus, for me anyway, is the lesser danger in that play. But it is just a personal opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

Be calm.