Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

Anti-Respiratory Face Covering Requirement Extended to All of Oregon

This is based on a surge of cases, modeling, and fear of overwhelming hospitals.

Stats (not from article below): There are 204 deaths out of population of 4.2 million. It looks like 98 are in hospitals state-wide, bogging down our whole health care system.

A Rapid COVID-19 test is being used by at least some medical services. It uses Abbott's ID Now (not FDA cleared or approved), which appears to be a PCR-type test — but I'm not qualified to make such an assessment. Perhaps we've all read by now that PCR is a bogus test for this sort of thing, even being disavowed by its late inventor. Regardless, the tests show 8121 positive out of 234,7169 tested.

I won't even get into modeling. They claim that the current numbers are fulfilling their prophesied numbers, so trust them.

Summary: This Really Big Disease is infecting everybody, but deaths are low and barely incrementing. Everybody needs to wear masks almost everywhere, and we're just one step out of full lock-down. I wonder if the governor will get a bonus, like CEOs do when they destroy their companies. [Do I sound grumpy?]

www.oregonlive.com

Oregonians will be required to wear masks statewide -- not just in select counties -- starting Wednesday

Gov. Kate Brown says masks must be worn in all indoor public spaces.
www.oregonlive.com www.oregonlive.com
 
N1mTzo said:
A bit of hell from Russia.
Our city was transferred to the "red zone" (maximum restrictions in everything, masks and gloves everywhere and everywhere). Allegedly, the incidence of per capita crown is higher than in Moscow (the most "affected region"). On local social networks, statistics are daily posted on the "sick" / dead from the crown. In fact, many people have repeatedly noticed that these "statistics" are falsified, because she is constantly "edited."
In addition, the city (despite the "terrible statistics") is not closed. Roads are free. Thousands of vacationers by car come to us from St. Petersburg every weekend (swim in the sea, cook food on the bay). Traffic jams are colossal for many kilometers. No one controls such a huge mass of cars, but at the same time, local residents are required to wear masks on buses (and in many other public places).
Today I had to visit a hospital, I needed a prescription for a drug. I stayed for almost 3 months, expecting this damn quarantine to be lifted (to get off normally). Unfortunately, my drug supply was completely depleted, and I was forced to plunge into this hell to get a prescription.
The hospital is crowded with people, although most doctors do not work (they were sent on vacation), but there are huge queues for other doctors. Naturally, all people (and doctors) are masked (some are wearing gloves!), Heat + 30C (no air conditioning). I (and other people, too) had to pull my mask over my chin to breathe through my nose, and in that position I spent 4 hours waiting for the doctor to receive me. I spent most of these 4 hours standing, as there was nowhere to sit because of the huge number of visitors. Then he sat for another 40 minutes in the doctor’s office, who was constantly (10 times sure) phoned on his cell phone (and office), brought various documents for signature, and was prevented from working in all possible ways from treating the patient.
There were several people in line at the doctor to the crown, but I did not see anyone who was sick (cough, runny nose and other symptoms). In fact, these people were asymptomatic carriers, or they had a mild form of the crown.
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This sounds way worse than what I'm whining about. Fortunately, I haven't had to interact with the healthcare system here.
 
Surprise, surprise, the European Commission (EC) had a “Roadmap on Vaccination” ready months before the COVID-19 pandemic broke out. The global vaccination market is currently worth USD 27 billion a year. According to WHO estimates, it will reach USD 100 billion by 2025. Any wonder ... why Bill Gates is smiling?

2022: A Vaccination Passport. The EU Keeps Quiet Over Suspicious Documents
June 28, 2020 - The Roadmap should lead to a “commission proposal for a common vaccination card / passport for EU citizens by 2022”.

Last updated during the third quarter of 2019, the 10-page document was followed, on September 12th, by a “global vaccination summit” jointly hosted by the EC and the World Health Organization (WHO).

Under the header “Ten Actions Towards Vaccination for All – Everyone should be able to benefit from the power of vaccination”, the summit manifesto laments that:

“Despite the availability of safe and effective vaccines, lack of access, vaccine shortages, misinformation, complacency towards disease risks, diminishing public confidence in the value of vaccines and disinvestments are harming vaccination rates worldwide.”

And with them, arguably, the pharmaceutical companies’ profits.

In July 2017, for example, Italy made 12 vaccinations compulsory for children. In the aftermath, the prices of these very vaccines went up by 62%: from an average price per dose of € 14.02 up to € 22,74.

The global vaccination market is currently worth USD 27 billion a year. According to WHO estimates, it will reach USD 100 billion by 2025. Since the EC-WHO global vaccination summit also discussed a renewed immunization agenda for 2030, the big pharma’s shareholders need not worry for the long-term performance of their stock. One ought really not to “harm vaccination rates worldwide”.

The manifesto of the global vaccination summit goes on to list 10 “lessons (…) and actions needed towards vaccination for all”. Each “lesson” is a gem of what the Italian neo-Marxist philosopher Diego Fusaro calls “the therapeutic capitalism”.

The wording is peremptory and leaves no room for nuance and debate. Adjectives such as “all” “everyone” “indisputably” abound. Statements in the conditional mood are absent.

More than a cautious, scientifically inspired and open-to-doubt plan of action, the tone – “to protect everyone everywhere”, “to leave no one behind” – is unsuitably messianic.

What about those who do not want to be “protected” that way? In Germany alone, roughly 10% of the whole population, or 8 million people, are strongly against a Corona vaccination. But let’s look at what we can learn, so to speak, from these “lessons”.

Lesson 1 begins with: “Promote global political leadership and commitment to vaccination” – this seems what we are witnessing now, with governments worldwide suggesting that masks and social distancing will remain in place until a vaccine for Corona-Sars2 is found.

And what about those politicians who are against vaccinations? Will their voters be told, as the EU budget commissioner Gunther Oettinger (in)famously did with Italian Lega voters in 2018, that “markets will teach them to vote for the right thing?” Will a new pandemic break out to teach people to vote for the right thing?

Lesson 4, “Tackle the root-causes of vaccine hesitancy, increasing confidence in vaccination,” looks like the blueprint for a major propaganda campaign, one that foresees – we read on the EU Roadmap on Vaccinations – the “development of e-learning training modules targeting GPs and primary healthcare providers focused on improving skills to address hesitant populations and promote behavioral change”.

Lesson 5, “Harness the power of digital technologies, so as to strengthen the monitoring of the performance of vaccination programs”, raises, in times of tracing apps and electronic wristbands, legitimate concerns over the further encroachment of technology in our lives – and bodies.

Which digital technologies are we talking about? Maybe a subcutaneous chip, like the one recently patented with the satanic-sounding number 060606 by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation?

Lesson 9 is, for the non-mainstream journalist, and for freedom of speech in general, the most threatening [the bolded type is mine]:
“Empower healthcare professionals at all levels as well as the media, to provide effective, transparent and objective information to the public and fight false and misleading information, including by engaging with social media platforms and technological companies.”

There we go: the fight against so-called Fake News is back. More work for Facebook’s self-appointed “Facts-Checkers”.

Fake News is of course Orwellian Newspeak for any non-aligned information, no matter its contents, origins and verifiability. Indeed, the global vaccination manifesto provides no definition for “objective information”, or for “false and misleading information”.

If vaccines are as safe as the EU and WHO claim without offering any evidence, why then did the U.S. government create, already in the 1980’s, a body called National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP)?

To provide, we read in the VICP’s official website, “a no-fault alternative to the traditional legal system for resolving vaccine injury petitions.” Quite successfully, it would seem.

In the period between 10/01/1988 (when the VICP begun awarding damage compensation) and 06/01/2020 (last available data), the VICP has awarded a total of USD 4,385,672,580.43 in compensation.

This figure excludes the compensation resulting from actual legal action, notably class actions, against Big Pharma. But, as the Italian documentary-maker Massimo Mazzucco explains, the U.S. authorities did not stop there to protect Big Pharma from legal action.

In 2010, a landmark ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court quoted the U.S. Code Title 42 thus: “The Act eliminates manufacturer liability for a vaccines unavoidable, adverse side effects.”

The same ruling further elaborates:

“No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after Oct.1, 1988… - …if the injury or death resulted from side-effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings”

1988 was of course the year in which the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program begun awarding compensations to the victims of vaccine injury – sparing legal headaches to Big Pharma in the process.

As system biologist Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai points out, the impossibility to sue pharmaceutical companies over vaccines, combined with falling profits from drug sales, turned vaccines into Big Pharma’s new business model.

And now the EU and the Bill Gates-financed WHO go along with it. “The government of the modern state,” Karl Marx famously wrote in his Communist Manifesto, “is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie”.

Were Marx alive today, he might have concluded that governance by international organization is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the global elites.
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Global Covid-19 fund-raising meeting raises $9.6 billion, leaders want vaccine for all
Jun 28, 2020 - A global fund-raising meeting on Saturday (June 27) raised €6.15 billion (S$9.6 billion) from the United States, the European Commission and numerous countries to fight Covid-19, with many participants stressing that an eventual vaccine should be available to anyone who needs it.

The pledging summit, part of a joint initiative by the EU executive and advocacy group Global Citizen, also included a globally televised and streamed fund-raising concert featuring Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, Shakira, Chloe X Halle, Usher and others.

The commission together with the European Investment Bank pledged €4.9 billion, the United States US$545 million, Germany €383 million, Canada C$300 million and Qatar US$10 million. Forty governments took part in the summit,

The money will be used for Covid-19 tests, treatments and vaccines, and also to support the world's poorest and most marginalized communities.


Which nations pledged to the global Covid-19 fund-raising meeting?
Jun 28, 2020 - A pledging summit on Saturday (June 27) raised €6.15 billion (S$9.6 billion) to tackle Covid-19. The event was part of a joint initiative by the European Commission and the advocacy group Global Citizen and included a star-studded globally televised and streamed concert.

Pledges by the following countries:

Belgium - €11.5 million to the World Food Programme, €4 million to the World Health Organisation's (WHO) Covid-19 solidarity response fund

Canada - C$120 million for the ACT Accelerator, C$180 million for Covid-19 humanitarian and development aid

Denmark - DKK16 million to the United Nations Population Fund Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) - US$25 million towards West Africa's Covid-19 relief and development European Commission jointly with European Investment Bank - €4.9 billion to help countries recover from the pandemic

Germany - €383 million to support the Global Fund's response mechanism and Global Citizen's crisis network

Luxembourg - €800,000 to the Covid-19 Therapeutics Accelerator

Netherlands - €25 million for procurement of a vaccine for countries needing it the most

Norway - US$10 million to vaccine alliance GAVI Qatar - US$10 million to the WHO

Serbia - €100,000 to vaccine alliance CEPI for vaccine research

Spain - €10 million to the Coronavirus Global Response initiative

Sweden - €46 million to the WHO Solidarity Response Fund

Switzerland - €20 million to ensure equal access to a vaccine and testing

United States - US$545 million for Covid-19 relief


German Official Leaks Report Denouncing Corona as ‘A Global False Alarm’
May 29, 2020 - Germany’s federal government and mainstream media are engaged in damage control after a report that challenges the established Corona narrative leaked from the interior ministry.

Some of the report key passages are:
  • The dangerousness of Covid-19 was overestimated: probably at no point did the danger posed by the new virus go beyond the normal level.
  • The people who die from Corona are essentially those who would statistically die this year, because they have reached the end of their lives and their weakened bodies can no longer cope with any random everyday stress (including the approximately 150 viruses currently in circulation).
  • Worldwide, within a quarter of a year, there has been no more than 250,000 deaths from Covid-19, compared to 1.5 million deaths [25,100 in Germany] during the influenza wave 2017/18.
  • The danger is obviously no greater than that of many other viruses. There is no evidence that this was more than a false alarm.
  • A reproach could go along these lines: During the Corona crisis the State has proved itself as one of the biggest producers of Fake News.
So far, so bad. But it gets worse. The report focuses on the “manifold and heavy consequences of the Corona measures” and warns that these are “grave”.

More people are dying because of state-imposed Corona-measures than they are being killed by the virus. The reason is a scandal in the making:

A Corona-focused German healthcare system is postponing life-saving surgery and delaying or reducing treatment for non-Corona patients.

Berlin in Denial Mode. The scientists fight back.
Initially, the government tried to dismiss the report as “the work of one employee”, and its contents as “his own opinion” – while the journalists closed ranks, no questions asked, with the politicians.

But the 93-pages report titled “Analysis of the Crisis Management” has been drafted by a scientific panel appointed by the interior ministry and composed by external medical experts from several German universities.

The report was the initiative of a department of the interior ministry called Unit KM4 and in charge with the “Protection of critical infrastructures”. This is also where the German official turned whistleblower, Stephen Kohn, work(ed), and from where he leaked it to the media.

The authors of the report issued a joint press release already on Mai 11th, berating the government for ignoring expert advise, and asking for the interior minister to officially comment upon the experts joint statement:

“Therapeutic and preventive measures should never bring more harm than the illness itself. Their aim should be to protect the risk groups, without endangering the availabilty of medical care and the health of the whole population, as it is unfortunately occurring”

“We in the scientific and medical praxis are experiencing the secondary damages of the Corona-measures on our patients on a daily basis.”

“We therefore ask the Federal Ministry of the Interior, to comment upon our press release, and we hope for a pertinent discussion regarding the [Corona] measures, one that leads to the best possible solution for the whole population”

At the time of writing, the German government had yet to react. But the facts are – sadly – vindicating the medical experts’ worries.

On May 23 the German newspaper Das Bild titled: “Dramatic consequences of the Corona-Measures: 52,000 Cancer Ops delayed.”
Inside, a leading medical doctor warns that “we will feel the side-effects of the Corona crisis for years”.
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Nucifera said:
Anti-Respiratory Face Covering Requirement Extended to All of Oregon
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It seems to have spread North of Oregon above the 49th, with a group of doctors from 'Masks For Canada' paving the way - this particular doctor carries the mask-torch for TV (and Twitter) from Calgary, Alberta. She has a following of licensed practitioners and their MFC channel has been on networks across the country on the Six O'Clock News. They are new medical stars. As the spokesperson said, we are finding 'new' information even in the last week that masks R'Us for all of Canada.

So, from Victoria to Newfoundland up to the shores of Resolute Bay, the message is getting out there, the premiers and mayors are weighing in. Just grand. :rolleyes:

As doctors, a group of doctors, they somehow missed the message from Health Canada (HC) who sort of governs them (although even HC hints at some mask good):

Limitations
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Homemade masks are not medical devices and are not regulated like medical masks and respirators:
  • they have not been tested to recognized standards
  • the fabrics are not the same as used in surgical masks or respirators
  • the edges are not designed to form a seal around the nose and mouth
{and they are never fit tested}

These types of masks may not be effective in blocking virus particles that may be transmitted by coughing, sneezing or certain medical procedures. They do not provide complete protection from virus particles because of a potential loose fit and the materials used.

Some commercially available masks have exhalation valves that make the mask more breathable for the person wearing it, but these valves also allow infectious respiratory droplets to spread outside the masks.

Masks with exhalation valves are not recommended, because they don't protect others from COVID-19 and don't limit the spread of the virus. {their emphasis}

Medical masks, including surgical, medical procedure face masks and respirators (like N95 masks), must be kept for health care workers and others providing direct care to COVID-19 patients.
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Now to back up the doctors and their Masks For Canada, the BBC comes along with their Coronavirus: 'Deadly masks' claims debunked.

Good to have the debunkers from the BBC to negate Health Canada, yet they have the support of the WHO.

It is getting hard for people to figure it out, like playing ping-pong, it is back and forth and the public can only focus on one side of the table comfortably.

Fortunately below, Dr. Rancourt heads of the BBC's debunkers 'reality check' provided by Jack Goodman and Flora Carmichael (brilliant debunkers from across the pound ), who have obviously not read from Rancourt's reports, nor apparently did the doctors from the Masks For Canada, some of whom are professors - or masks for Oregon for that matter et al.

www.sott.net

Do masks and respirators prevent viral respiratory illnesses? Interview with Professor Denis Rancourt -- Sott.net

A health professional told me back in March that face masks were ineffective but that respirators (the N95) were. Because of the source, I thought there must be validity to this. However, it seemed counterintuitive. I reasoned that there would be...
www.sott.net www.sott.net
 
RevChristoph said:
You are not alone. Many in the US see through the rhetoric or just don't care anymore. Should be interesting. What happens when we are no longer afraid of coronavirus, killer hornets, or black or white people?
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In a related vein: I have noticed over the last couple of weeks that even though most people have given up and started wearing masks everywhere, there is one noticeable group that has a very high number of non-conformers. But before I say who this is, I am basing this on direct observations of the entire human population present at that time. I did counts in my head of all the different "types" present that were not wearing masks to make sure I was being fair. And I have done this now after being in several different stores and eateries over that time in the Sacramento area.

And so I will say, from my qualified observations, that many black people in my area are being very brazen in refusing to wear masks when entering stores or restaurants. And this extends to at least a quarter of those that I have witnessed. The only other people I have noticed not wearing masks during that entire time were a few elderly white people, and children.

I mentioned previously my irritation at being called out for not "staying in my square" at Chipotle by a worker (if not in this thread, then the George Floyd one). I forgot to add that part of that irritation was most likely due to my noticing that the two customers previous to me were black and they did not wear masks or "social distance" - yet they never got called out for it.

What I am seeing now seems to be "two rules" in stores and restaurants: anyone who is not a minority feels they must wear a mask, and they do - because if they don't, they will get socially shamed; while blacks seem to either be making a statement about the worthlessness of masks, or they are taking advantage of the current "get out of jail free" card that society has given them. I can't say for sure which it is at this point, but I do see this as yet just another attempt to drive the division engine.

But I want to stress this point: I have not seen a single case where a black person who didn't wear a mask did anything to demean any around them who did. They either don't wear them because they understand the madness behind the dictates, or because they know noone will press them on it - or, potentially even more likely, because they know BOTH things are true.

I think that they are simply standing proud and doing what we ALL should do, had we the guts in my opinion. What solidifies that opinion for me has been my own interaction with many of them in grocery stores, where they make fun of the mask wearers in a jovial manner without malice. I think at least a portion of the black community here realizes the political games being played with them as the pawns, and they aren't having it. The personal interactions I have had with them have all been positive and caring.

And so the roller coaster ride continues!! Will tomorrow be manic, or depressive? Wait and see!!
 
angelburst29 said:
The money will be used for Covid-19 tests, treatments and vaccines, and also to support the world's poorest and most marginalized communities.
mabar said:
I wish they wouldn't support us any more.
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Yes, it would be likely better. Notice how words about their goals like to lead with the hard (tests, treatments and vaccines) followed by soft humanitarian flower language, as if they have good intentions.

As Pierre reminds in his excellent article:

The 20th Century tells the story of millions of innocent people sacrificed by the authorities on the altar of greed, lies, propaganda and deception. The facts are here, they are stubborn, and they scream: "No, the authorities couldn't care less about saving lives."

The same applies to the humanitarian sphere. Hunger kills 9 million people every year. That's 30 times more than SARS-CoV-2 and its alleged 365,000 deaths (the number of coronavirus deaths is being grossly exaggerated - we'll deal with this point further down). It would cost between $7 and $249 billion to eradicate hunger. Meanwhile, the U.S. has already thrown more than $6 trillion at the coronavirus crisis. That is 24 times the highest estimate for the cost of eradicating hunger in the whole world.

The epidemiology sphere tells the same story. For decades, malaria has been killing about 500,000 people every year (mostly children) while cheap and effective drugs are available. Solving the malaria problem would cost about US$ 4 billion a year. In just 3 months, the US government has spent 1,500 times more on coronavirus than the cost of dealing with malaria.

In the same vein, every year the seasonal flu kills between 300,000 and 500,000 individuals without alarming the authorities whatsoever.

Obviously, the authorities don't give a damn about the millions dying every year because of malaria, hunger or the flu. So why this sudden concern about allegedly "saving lives"? What is the true motive?
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They will not support 'the world's poorest and most marginalized communities' ever while they 'yield management' over peoples affairs.

Best one might say is perhaps these people are a well knitted together dangerous cult, yet nothing new here. More or less, many at the top must be possessed in some way, bent on culling the herd.
 
Ketone Cop said:
In a related vein: I have noticed over the last couple of weeks that even though most people have given up and started wearing masks everywhere, there is one noticeable group that has a very high number of non-conformers. But before I say who this is, I am basing this on direct observations of the entire human population present at that time. I did counts in my head of all the different "types" present that were not wearing masks to make sure I was being fair. And I have done this now after being in several different stores and eateries over that time in the Sacramento area.

And so I will say, from my qualified observations, that many black people in my area are being very brazen in refusing to wear masks when entering stores or restaurants. And this extends to at least a quarter of those that I have witnessed. The only other people I have noticed not wearing masks during that entire time were a few elderly white people, and children.

I mentioned previously my irritation at being called out for not "staying in my square" at Chipotle by a worker (if not in this thread, then the George Floyd one). I forgot to add that part of that irritation was most likely due to my noticing that the two customers previous to me were black and they did not wear masks or "social distance" - yet they never got called out for it.

What I am seeing now seems to be "two rules" in stores and restaurants: anyone who is not a minority feels they must wear a mask, and they do - because if they don't, they will get socially shamed; while blacks seem to either be making a statement about the worthlessness of masks, or they are taking advantage of the current "get out of jail free" card that society has given them. I can't say for sure which it is at this point, but I do see this as yet just another attempt to drive the division engine.

But I want to stress this point: I have not seen a single case where a black person who didn't wear a mask did anything to demean any around them who did. They either don't wear them because they understand the madness behind the dictates, or because they know noone will press them on it - or, potentially even more likely, because they know BOTH things are true.

Ich denke, dass sie einfach stolz sind und das tun, was wir ALLE tun sollten, wenn wir meiner Meinung nach den Mut hätten. Was diese Meinung für mich festigt, ist meine eigene Interaktion mit vielen von ihnen in Lebensmittelgeschäften, wo sie sich ohne Bosheit auf fröhliche Weise über die Maskenträger lustig machen. Ich denke, zumindest ein Teil der schwarzen Gemeinschaft hier erkennt die politischen Spiele, die mit ihnen als Bauern gespielt werden, und sie haben es nicht. Die persönlichen Interaktionen, die ich mit ihnen hatte, waren alle positiv und fürsorglich.

Und so geht die Achterbahnfahrt weiter !! Wird morgen manisch oder depressiv sein? Warten wir es ab!!
[/ZITAT]
👍
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Alejo said:
Yep, they're going for a second round in a lot of places.

I have a feeling it's political though, as at the same time they're allowing BLM and Pride parades to go on with no issues... so, here we go again.
Click to expand...

Yep, round 2 but with a few exceptions.

List of places where the Coronavirus DOES NOT spread: Pride parades, BLM Antifa riots, In crowds tearing down statues, George Floyd’s funeral.

List of places where the Coronavirus DOES spread: Trump rallies, Anti-lock down protests, Churches.
 
Hungary, West of Ukraine, small agricultural town of 17000, ~90 miles west from the Ukrainian border:

+ Mask Enforcement is collapsing: more and more people on the vegetable market are not wearing their masks, I could spot them way easier now, ~25% were maskless
+ LIDL I could get away with no mask, workers didn't wear masks, but the cashier appeared to be a Proper Authoritarian Follower Mask Nazi!
+ SPAR When the security guard is not there, I don't wear a mask. Last week we were standing in line before the cashiers and one man didn't wear a mask. I removed mine as well

Mask Enforcement:
- Mayor's admin office (tax, registrations, ids, etc..) "big" crowd Ante Portas, only a couple people were let inside at a time by the security guards and they mandated masks, plus he sprinkled a hand sanitizer onto my hand instructing me:
"- Rub your hands together!"
The stuff of course burned, I wondered how toxic that junk was..
Anyway, could have been way worse: at least while waiting in a tiny, stuffy room, they had the money & sense to install an AC-unit, to prevent pensioners from fainting and the guards getting spine injuries from lifting the 300lbs+ grannies off the floor.
- Doctor, general practitioner: big change, we could go inside the building, into the air-conditioned waiting room. Probably they had multiple overweight pensioners fainting and had enough of lifting the heavy bodies ==> 'How to get a permanent spine injury'. Assistant wore a simple green mask.. what happened with her super-expensive looking fancy mask from last month? [sarcasm] I guessed, its better that I put my mask on.. in order to not increase their stress and retain our mutual old levels of 'friendly-helpful-cooperation'. :D
 
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