Creating a New World

[Laura]

I would like to start a discussion that focuses on Creating a New World.

I would just like for all participants to think about what is wrong with our world and what they would like to see happen to make it right.

There are a lot of things to which there are no simple answers. For example, I don't think that communisim, socialism, fascism or capitalism are the right way to go economically, but I'm not sure what IS the right way that would fulfill the needs of the majority of humans. How to separate what is essential to all, etc. Are there elements of each of those systems that are truly STO and if so, what? How to pull out what is useful and put it together?

I think it will be a very useful exercise to define things, to imagine things, to describe how things would be done in an STO world. Things like who decides things? How? Who owns things? How? Is there voting? How is it done? Who can vote?
Education... what is available to who and how? Who pays for it?

Social services: counseling, child-care, medicine, etc.

Literally every area of our society has been corrupted in one way or another, so how to re-imagine something that would really work? Re-think it, re-define and describe it?

Start anywhere. Maybe we should start talking about what is wrong with various systems and what could be done to fix them, if anything. If they are wrong at the foundation, what to replace them with?

 

[LoveAndLight]

We must change are values as a whole. Most people in the world do not choose to care, let alone take action to change anything for the better. We must value to help each other to become stronger has a whole and not just go help are selfs. If people can wake up to the truth, then I think we can change the world for the better. Heres a quote from Albert Einstein, that I think fits perfectly with this post.

“The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”
Albert Einstein

 

[ramaj]

Great post LoveandLight!!I think a good way to start a new STO world would be for all of us to discuss what was flat out wrong with the systems of the world today and freely talk about one main point that would at least make it better. For example, I feel the most "evil" thing in this world today is money. I really don't respect the way people are enslaved by money and by how people take advantage of other people's good work to make themselves look better just for the love of money. This concept kind of reminds me when the C's told Ark something along the lines of doing hard work while the people above you take credit for it is the "american way". well that would be my 2 cents.

 

[Thomas Alan]

Great post LoveandLight!!I think a good way to start a new STO world would be for all of us to discuss what was flat out wrong with the systems of the world today and freely talk about one main point that would at least make it better. For example, I feel the most "evil" thing in this world today is money. I really don't respect the way people are enslaved by money and by how people take advantage of other people's good work to make themselves look better just for the love of money. This concept kind of reminds me when the C's told Ark something along the lines of doing hard work while the people above you take credit for it is the "american way". well that would be my 2 cents.

Hi, ramaj. I wonder if it is money itself that is the evil. Money is (or could be) a store of value. More convenient than barter is some cases. We have been fed and to a great extent adopted pathological dealing with each other. It's difficult even to imagine sometimes what life would be like with out these influences. We get obsessed with things objects and appearances rather than what is real.

Mac

Edited - To make Mac's response more apparent - Moderator

 

[Steve M.]

Government and Governing

This is a difficult area. There could be a leader. The person could/would choose counsel members, or they could be voted for. There would have to be trust. Perhaps instead of a leader there would only be a counsel. Maybe the counsel, instead of having a leader would have a voice that speaks through one particular person.

I like the idea of a single leader, but then such a system could become 'dynasty' like and become corrupted. What if there were smaller pockets of people, groups. In each group (200 or less people) there would be a small counsel and each would have a voice (person) who spoke for that group, who would travel to other groups. The idea behind it being balance, and finding things that are and are not working by networking with other groups.

There's really a lot to consider. On top of my own mechanical wants and don't wants. There are the questions of: What is and isn't fair? What is just in terms of law, justice, crime and punishment? How does a group/governing body not come under the effects of Ponerization? How would currency be used, or is there a way to avoid it completely? How are differences solved, or would there be any differences since a true STO group would be of similar understanding, evolution and growth?

There are also so many aspects to our lives, many of which we don't consider are governed by government (speed limit, currency, which side of the road to be on, protective equipment (for example while riding a bike or motorcycle) or the age a child must be in school..).

A Government would have to protect the people as well from the toxins of our world. How could one even start to create a place for people with so much junk in the soil, air and water? Is there any virgin place on earth that has a water supply and unspoiled soil? Any place that nearly does?

Apologies that I'm only able to touch on things that bring more questions than answers. Attempting to look at in as a whole, in my imagined world, it seems so fragile and so easily corrupted. How would a person be able to avoid the sicknesses of mental, emotional and physical break down that STS seems so able to cause? And at the same time, with what would STO do in terms of defending such a world? What I mean is if your world/culture is vulnerable, how can it be protected and by what means would one protect it without becoming what it is your defending it from?

Apologies again, I can see where this is really going to take some major consideration, but maybe some of the above questions will help others think through possible issues. Great questions BTW, Laura.

 

[mkrnhr]

sorry to be the devil's lawyer, but if you have a system with a leader, leading local leaders etc, you create a pyramidal structure of power, and even if it starts with sane and benevolent people, it will attract psychopaths into it. Money in itself is not evil either, it is how it is used and by whom. If you take capitalism and communism, from the psychopathy point of view they are similar : the concentration of wealth and power by the few successful pathological individuals. IMHO, a good system would be a system where it is impossible to gain any advantage from (how? i don't know :p).

 

[Zadius Sky]

Hi, ramaj. I wonder if it is money itself that is the evil. Money is (or could be) a store of value. More convenient than barter is some cases. We have been fed and to a great extent adopted pathological dealing with each other. It's difficult even to imagine sometimes what life would be like with out these influences. We get obsessed with things objects and appearances rather than what is real.

Money itself been around for a thousand of years. Items, such as precious metals (e.g., gold, silver, etc.), sea shells, beads, etc, were used as a form of money. Now, it's paper currency and coins as well "price" system. It's interesting how we are enslaved by numbers and constantly worrying about money. Low amounts you have in the bank, more stress you are under. It's a system of control. Money itself is an illusion. The Babylon used the Code of Hammurabi, a law code that include a creation of role of money, which, if you think about it, continues to be used today.

Which comes to a thinking. We know that money tends to be of an object that everyone tends to thrive for, e.g., jobs.

A: Oh D****, what is your Quest? We mentioned before about career. And we mentioned family. When one is engaged in going against the grain, never the
twain shall meet. You have seen that by now. Now please recognize that your interests should direct your life from here. To be engaged in unsatisfactory
endeavors has led you to this point. Please follow your instinctual objectives. This is what will lead from the gloom into the Glorious Light.
Q: (BRH) I have always considered a career to be a dirty job, but a necessary evil on this blob of mud, this swamp we call planet earth. I have always resented
it. My quest for spiritual matters has always been contaminated by the mundane matter of having to make a living and survive in the material world. Many years
ago I was on the verge of suicide and I sensed and felt the presence of God, and heard a voice, at this very intense turning point. The word was: 'Don't worry; I
have a job for you.' I was completely enraged! So, is there a place for me in Vegas?
A: D****, your ideas about career are distorted. A job is just that: a job. A career is your life's work. You have always invested too much energy in your
quest to hold down a "job." Why not consolidate, my boy? Life would be so much easier.
Q: (BRH) The pursuit of money is the antithesis of my quest, or so it appears.
A: When one worries first about money, the trap is set. When one pursues one's passion, all else falls into place. What you do not yet allow yourself to
understand is that this principle never, ever fails. But you certainly are not alone. The 4th density STS programmers relish the thought.
Q: (BRH) I have a health problem that has plagued me for quite a number of years and I can't get on top of it and don't know what to do about it.
A: The health is directly related to the psyche. When one is operating at cross purposes necessarily, the physical realm is chronically affected. When this is
resolved, the physical problem is solved. We need not repeat the sins of the father where alcohol is concerned either, by the way!

A system of money itself needs to be discarded, imo. We each have a part to contribute to the whole...and it'd be nice to do that without having to worry about money or being stuck with debts you can't get out of.

 

[Thomas Alan]

sorry to be the devil's lawyer, but if you have a system with a leader, leading local leaders etc, you create a pyramidal structure of power, and even if it starts with sane and benevolent people, it will attract psychopaths into it. Money in itself is not evil either, it is how it is used and by whom. If you take capitalism and communism, from the psychopathy point of view they are similar : the concentration of wealth and power by the few successful pathological individuals. IMHO, a good system would be a system where it is impossible to gain any advantage from (how? i don't know :p).

Yes, I see that a hierarchical system would attract psychopaths. But what if psychopathy were well known and persons with those tendencies were easily identified. That there were clearly established ways of isolating or otherwise dealing with them. Then a hierarchy might be able to be based on virtues or abilities. Just speculating.

Thomas

 

[anart]

I would like to start a discussion that focuses on Creating a New World.

Well, nothing like the largest question in the world for a little Saturday discussion!

In a society/world where every aspect is twisted and ponerized, there is no where to look where things can't be vastly improved. So, it's going to take me a while to think about this one. The first thing that comes to mind is Objective education - for all - at no charge. The educational environment should entail learning in a natural way that encourages independent thought to develop and should never be co-opted by the Military Industrial Complex to create small, non-thinking and frightened cogs to fit into the machine, working as wage slaves.

That's just the first thing to come to mind, though - this is a BIG one!

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

I'll just throw a few ideas into the pot here.

To change the world for the better, and to strive for a truly STO environment I think firstly we would have to get rid of the education system as it curently exists. I mean scrap it completely and start from sctatch. Children from a young age need to be empowered with REAL knowledge starting with:

. Philosophy/Theory of Knowledge

. REAL history which would include the terrors of war/slavery/tyranny

. Psychology so that children can begin to get a handle on their own and others behaviour from an early age

. Social Anthropology. Teaching children the history and value of culturally different humans is crucial in my opinion to a STO environment. So much of the trouble on this planet appears to stem from an almost innate fear of difference and the inclination to identify with a particular social/racial/religious group from on early age. Of course this is propagated by our parents and a multitude of institutions throughout our lives.

. Knowledege of Psycopathy/Ponerology pure and simple

. The crucial importance of treating all beings in the lower densities with the upmost honour and respect because of course we are all aspects of the Divine Cosmic Mind.

Of course this would all have to be tailored and made palatable to young minds at various stages of development! You get the idea though and I do honestly believe that a completely radical over-haul of what children are subjected to can give a 'better world' a fighting chance. After this, things become rather complicated because even after such an education (the ethics of which would have to be practically demonstrated by the adults in society), individuals are free to choose other paths which may be at odds with those that have been presented to them. We then have the issue which has plagued every piece of theorising on Utopia in history: What kind of bureaucracy/power stuctures must exist to regulate the system?

 

[Zadius Sky]

The first thing that comes to mind is Objective education - for all - at no charge. The educational environment should entail learning in a natural way that encourages independent thought to develop and should never be co-opted by the Military Industrial Complex to create small, non-thinking and frightened cogs to fit into the machine, working as wage slaves.

Indeed! I agree. An environment where each individual can learn their own way and choose the direction they want to take, and to be encouraged by elders. When I was in college, I was taking courses like crazy, whatever appeals my mind, regardless of what others wanted me to learn. And, I certainly have noticed that schools now and in the past centuries tend to be more directed for jobs only, to be used, and never for the soul's development.

 

[John G]

Economics-wise the idea I've seen from SOTT/Cass that sounds good is the idea of not making money from money. Thus I guess you just have renters (who could become part owners in a rent to own sense) and owners, you just have dividends no stock market. To go with this you need lots of socialism redistribution of money for sure including worldwide between countries. Would be nice to be able to use rocks like the Druids but at least have all the technology that is known out in the open and stop creating scarcity where there is none (like oil). Need food production to be more local and healthy and better able to quickly ramp up if needed. I'd think you'd need some kind of networked leadership like the way SOTT/Cass operates. A lot of this of course is easier said than done.

 

[combsbt]

sorry to be the devil's lawyer, but if you have a system with a leader, leading local leaders etc, you create a pyramidal structure of power, and even if it starts with sane and benevolent people, it will attract psychopaths into it. Money in itself is not evil either, it is how it is used and by whom. If you take capitalism and communism, from the psychopathy point of view they are similar : the concentration of wealth and power by the few successful pathological individuals. IMHO, a good system would be a system where it is impossible to gain any advantage from (how? i don't know :p).

Yes, I see that a hierarchical system would attract psychopaths. But what if psychopathy were well known and persons with those tendencies were easily identified. That there were clearly established ways of isolating or otherwise dealing with them. Then a hierarchy might be able to be based on virtues or abilities. Just speculating.

Thomas

I agree Mac. The first step seems to be getting the issue of psychopathy out to the masses. If we were all aware of the situation, it becomes really obvious that we have the numbers to do something about it. And the problem seems to be that nobody will trust anybody any more because of ponerization. People dismiss any idea of a communal society as idealistic because they've completely lost trust of everyone, and they themselves are not trustworthy. If it is realized that this is not basic human nature, but a result of a pathology on the larger portion of the human race, that would be the first step to alleviating it.

 

[Leo40]

IMO the guiding principle of ALL human and 2D and 1D occupants of this planet should be
CO-OPERATION
We don't need government, we govern ourselves.
We don't need money, we exchange value; be it goods, services, skills etc.
We live in Communities. The idea of "kinsdomain" described by the oh so derided
Anastasia is a good start, also "ecovillages.
I remember when our family had 4 generations living together; there is no need for
childcare or "social services".
We don't need schools. Homeschooling is growing all over the world.
We don't need hospitals. They are breeding grounds of sickness.
These are just a few ideas that come to mind.

 

[Vulcan59]

The first big thing that comes to mind to me is to make sure essential psychopaths are identified as early as possible and are prevented from seeking or gaining positions of power or influence.