Creating a New World

[agni]

I think, would be good idea to gather group & establish list of survival priorities/necessities for the group. Then ask people to form groups where they feel capable to fulfill these priorities.

As far as who get's house first, I would agree with those who said: children/elderly/sick.
As far as the rest, first I would ask if there are any volunteers, that do not mind living w/o house for a time being. Then go from there. If possible would continue house production (and other work) in shifts. People without houses can work during the night, and sleep in the houses of people who have them during the day. (Log houses can be quite easily built without having much tools, btw.)

Another option people can do is to raffle after each house is built. I would stay away from assigning houses based on position/role in group, as I would rather see group without any kind of predisposition towards hierarchy, but rather group as a whole, where everyone realizes they are part of the group and valuable as such, no matter what they do as long as it benefits group.

In other words, would be nice to see people serving group, before serving themselves. Where it's understood, that survival depends on how well group is functioning as a whole.

If individuals are identified who serve themselves, before the group, they can be asked to try to live on their own, with option to go back if they re-consider the approach in the future.

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

I think anything other than that will send group on the same path society is on now.


===

Please free to say something if you smell projections !

 

[Joan]

I have been mulling this topic around in my head this weekend but was unable to post a reply because of a busy work schedule.

Here are some of my thoughts, I think some hints can be gleaned from the Cass. transcripts and Laura's writings. I think we have to go back to the history of the circle people, there are hints that they functioned as a cohesive group, shared knowledge and possibly had contacts with other groups that functioned in a similar way. There is evidence of circular megalithic structures throughout Europe. There is mention in the transcripts about the use of "Kites" as a form of communication and also the sending of objects and/or messages wrapped in ? cant remember now the actual wording. Also something about that they "didn't need" technology, everything they needed was transmitted through the stones in some way.

I think there is something in the C's transcripts that hints that stones can be used as a director/ transmission of cosmic energies.This hints to me the help/assistance given by 1D

I also see assistance given by 2D in the form of plants/ herbs used for medicinal purposes and to maintain the integrity of the physical body. This brings to mind the use of herb/medicinal gardens grown by the monks in previous centuries.This would would be utilized to help maintain/protect the function of the physical body, support the immune system and in turn allow for a stronger development of the energy body.

I can see a group coming together pooling and sharing the knowledge they have collectively deciding what knowledge they will keep that will enable them to function as a group and what knowledge is false and has no meaning or purpose for them to be able to function as a cohesive group.

I also see the emergence of and elder/elders regardless of age or gender in the group that have knowledge of 3D reality and lessons learned, that share and teach other members of the group to be able to function as a cohesive whole, each one separate but part of a whole group moving together toward a common group purpose, that resonate together as a group mind, aware of each other but also able to function as individuals, constantly sharing and exchanging new ideas with the group as they emerge that would help form greater cohesion.

I also see a specialized knowledge being used to help heal/maintain the energy body for example by different healing modalities that members may have acquired I.E Reiki. Also knowledge of the cosmos and how this would affect the group and the environment. Any skills that can be shared with group to be able to form a safe physical environment.

These are just some of my thoughts, the actual dynamics of the group I think I need to reflect on this provoking topic, but I do have one last thought that if the group integrity is to be maintained as a cohesive whole and on a 3D STO pathway that knowledge or awareness of "Strategic Enclosure" would be vital.

 

[Ollie]

Wow, what a thread, and so quickly developed, in so many directions, and covering so many timescales. I also came to this thread late, it was at page 13 before I had a chance to print it and scan it through. I have yet to see the videos, but have read the Wikipedia entry. My reply is from page 13.

A great deal of what has been posted is fantastic, highly relevant, and the way it has been posted is open and wide ranging.

This is quite likely what would initially happen in Laura’s given scenario:

… a group of people who get together in a forest clearing and decide that they are going to be society. Say there is 200 of them. There are couples with children and aged parents, there are aged people with no children. There are orphaned children. There are single individuals.

The range of intelligence and skills is normal, that is, there are some very smart people, most average people, a few not so smart, and maybe one or two who are very slow. Some have artistic talent, some musical talent, some are scientifically inclined, some like to take care of others; some are very good at organizing, some can hunt and like to do it; some like to spend their time with animals, some like building things, some like gardening, some like sewing, some like cooking, etc. There are some who have “psychic abilities”, prophetic dreams and such, and so on.

On the forum, and with the contributors so far, there is an obvious range of intelligence from the posts made. The postings are ‘chaotic’ (and this is good), as is likely to be the situation when a disparate group of people meet up in a ‘strange environment’, all the posts with ideas of how to move forward (and I’m no different with this posting), all ‘jockeying for position’, just as is the case in the classic management Team Theory analogy of the ‘forming stage’. Experience suggests that this is normal, and, in fact, very few so called ‘Teams’ get beyond this stage.

Laura initially posed the following questions:

How will they organize themselves? Who does what? How is value attributed to what is done?

And then as Laura suggested, it may be an idea to slow right down -

Let’s low down a little bit and stick with our little nascent society in the forest clearing until we can extract some principles from what we have created/observed, okay?

- and take things one-step at a time and build on each idea. For example:

What happens in the first hour?

What needs to be done?

For example, how did they decide that they are going to be a society? What was the process involved? Who was involved in the process and who in making the decisions? What else was going on whilst the decisions were being made? Who was doing what? What is each group of people doing? What are individuals in each group doing?

Now, one or two people have started to get down to this level of detail, possibly ignored in ‘the general chaos of the rest’, and again this quite normal for this stage of the process.

Now, for each of these questions, afurther set of questions need to be considered: What would be a 4D STO way of operating in this initial timeframe? How many different solutions can we arrive at? Sensible or not, and what defines sensible, as paraphrasing anart let’s start ‘thinking in a limitless fashion. Ana has started to do this.

For example, how many different sources of water are there that may or may not be available?

In my opinion there is still a lot to do here. The questions that are posed above are all fairly general, and all lead to finer questions that are required to flesh them out. As Laura stated:

ome of ya’ll need to stop and REALLY imagine yourselves in this situation. […] You are skipping all kinds of critical considerations that relate to SURVIVAL.

Then, having sorted out the first hour, and the people involved in what they are doing (and this poses a great number of questions in itself), to move on to the next question, which may be:

What happens in the next 24 hrs, and what needs to be done?

Followed by :
The next few days?
The first week?
The first month?
The first quarter?
The first year?

Always bearing in mind four things:
C’s

What is of greatest importance right now?

Laura

‘Creating a New World.’ To define things, to imagine things, to describe how things would be done in an STO world. ‘
Laura
‘[…] “If you build it, they will come.” […] imagine how a society is structured that is ready to be aligned with 4D STO, […] get the principles worked out, some of us can begin living them to some extent.

anart

[…] pushing our minds to think in a limitless fashion – limitless thinking and Doing – taking action to Create – […]

At first I thought that Laura’s initial scenario need to be more well-defined (and I’m other than a detail man). No. The reason why not, is that it opens up the possibility for more open thinking, for more scenarios to consider, and to find more solutions to suit different problems. For example: is the clearing in the middle of nowhere, next to the coast, desert, a township with facilities, etc?

Perhaps we need to explore what each of us means when we talk of ‘how things would be done in an STO world’, as a first step before we even begin to answer the questions posed by Laura above, and for applying to the first hour?

It may be an idea to get the orchestra in tune before we start playing the ‘set piece of music’.

I realise that I am asking more questions and quoting what others, have already said; the intention is to summarise: a perspective from someone outside (an observer) of the initial postings. This summary, and the questions posed, may, or may not, resonate with you as a way of moving forward to answering Laura’s questions.

As has been said before, ‘we all have roles to play’. Perhaps I’m merging into mine? Perhaps we will all find our ‘role’ in the course of this exercise? Perhaps, I’ll even find mine. Where does each one of us fit into the orchestra? What is our instrument, and what do we need to do to play in tune?

All of the postings made have a place, they just need saving and feeding in at the appropriate place in the timescale of events in Laura’s scenario, AND constantly keeping in mind the tfour things (quoted above) as stated by C’s, Laura (2) and anart.

This is my infeed to this thread, for what it’s worth.

 

[Oxajil]

We observe that there is a majority of people in our group who, even if they have been ponerized as was shown in "The Trap," will still probably be able to respond to their human instincts of caring and sharing. So we can assume that since this is how the majority is, that is how humankind initially evolved.

There are a lot of people that I know who might not seem helpful or caring at first ''sight'', but when you are with them in situations where survival or something is needed, they will help.

We also notice some pathology in our group (some of you created such groups, so there they are.) What to do about pathology? We suspect that pathology is due to mutation because, obviously, as we have seen from "The Trap," human beings could not have evolved into psychopaths because they would have destroyed each other (and themselves) eons ago.

Okay, so pathologicals are mutants that "do not play nice." We see that it is SUPER important for someone in the group to have this knowledge, to be able to spot it and share that information with the rest. Perhaps this was a shamanic role in some tribal societies - they could "see" the pathology more or less "psychically".

What does normally happen to a mutant in nature? It either survives and ''replicates'' and through evolution remains on existing or it dies because the mutation is not beneficial for surviving. In our case, ''the mutant dies'', because such a mutant in the group/society would lead to disbalance/disruption etc.

We notice that care and concern for others is the consciousness energy director for MOST of the people. Some people mention "family groups," and certainly there may be some there, but under these circumstance, what is really important is the HUMAN family, and that the caring and sharing is more or less modeled on a healthy family where there are multiple generations living together and the elders care for the children while the parents do the work. We also notice that there may be some disabled people who can also care for children, and perhaps be apprenticed as crafts people or medical people etc. So, just because they cannot dig ditches doesn't mean that they are not worthy. Again, we see a family dynamic where if you have a child who is disabled, you don't throw them away, you care for them and there are things they can do to contribute.

Now, I'm going to leave aside some of the questions that have been raised for the moment and ask this one:

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

I have to say that I love that idea, it's almost as if it is something I've been longing for, for so ''long''.
I think that it is possible.

(( One of the keys perhaps is possession. What if a child or pet ''belongs'' to no one, but ''belongs'' to him/herself only and is a part of the whole society. Children basically being kind of raised by everyone and they learn a lot from everyone. Something like that...

Everyone knows what to do and there are no limits.

Jealousy should also not play a role. Sure, it might come up, which is natural, but you can not let it out and if a society tries that for some ''time'', jealousy might not play a role at all anymore. Could that be possible?

It seems like every person in this society helps one another in some way, keeping it all balanced. Not only does everyone do their work, but they also help each other, teach each other, learn from each other, play with each other, sing and dance with each other, laugh with each other - or alone for that matter. But this seems like a society where people don't have to be afraid of opening up to each other. Of course people will be shy, but there is more trust in the ''game'', perhaps there is no reason to not trust. Perhaps I'm thinking too far ahead right now. It is important to stay vigilant of course, everywhere. ))

So is this possible? Well, I think after some ''time'' it will be. It takes some ''time'' adjusting to this, it kind of depends on the person I guess, some people might have more trust in this and others might be kind of observing everyone with quite some skepticism. The first step I guess should be to hopefully recognize the pscyhopath(s) and make them go away from the group somehow. Then the group can start to build a society together. And when people with good hearts do this, and use their instincts of caring and sharing along the way, some kind of bond between all the people might be formed and eventually a family structured society could ''evolve'' from that.

Basically what Buddy said:

In the absence of the poisoning of ponerology I believe human beings will naturally cooperate and trust each other, producing and exchanging what others need, and receiving what they need in return, within an environment of cooperation and trust.

That's all I can come up with now...

 

[Tigersoap]

13795.msg104692#msg104692 date=1253542640]
Just standing there stating that you don't know anything about this and then just give up is not contributing to the cause. Is this how you would help your wife and little girl, but giving up before you have already started?

[quote author=Nienna Eluch]I think in that situation, as has been pointed out by Oxajil, doing the pipe breathing to calm down and help you to start thinking with your intellect, instead of your emotions would be a great benefit to the well-being of all. ;)
[/quote]

[quote author=Smaragde]I think Bo is right, Tigersoap. you are letting your emotions of fear take control of you. This doesn't allow you to see that doing the EE to calm us down and help us find hope inside, will better enable us as a group to find solutions "in situations of stress and danger".[/quote]

Ok point taken, I did not see this at first, I am truly scared of such situations because I would feel helpless and not knowing what to do and sure does touch feelings of worthlessness and not being able to contribute.
I don't think I am giving up though, it's just that I tend to see the worst first to not be shattered if it happens.
Thanks for the gentle mirror.

 

[ana]

I was thinking in terms that it is natural to have children as well as essential for survival, however important it is to have children for personal reasons. We are hard wired for not only producing offspring but for rearing them as well. Hormonal and neurological changes for this occur naturally.

It takes only a little more than a decade for the bio-energetic process to begin switching from growth to the development of the reproductive capacity.

If there is there a cause for alarm about this, I’m open.

I am trying to understand what you mean, I don't think it is a cause for alarm :)

[quote author=Ana] I just cannot understand this MC, do you think you do exist for the survival of an specie?
Wich specie?

Yes. I’ve understood that as the mechanism used for my arrival here, but not that solely. Maybe I should have said Humanity?

[/quote]

This is still more confusing to me, What do you mean by “the mechanism used for my arrival here”?
Well, I just don’t know what to answer because I don’t really understand your point.. :/

 

[StandingOnTheEdge]

And, meantime, we have more or less finished the trial version of a video I made a few weeks ago as a test - it wasn't intended to be released, but I sorta got on a roll and the people here liked it and the Cs apparently liked it, so it's up here:
http://cassiopaea.org/knowledge_and_being/

Forgive me for getting off-track on the subject matter of this thread, but...

YIPPEEEEE!!!

Laura, your video is absolutely wonderful, thank you, thank you, thank you!

Your director and editors did a great job. I loved the photographic accents and asides.

It was delightful to be able to see you talk in a place of comfort. Colors,music, setting, attire and makeup all have a professional polish.

OK, back to the thread.....

 

[forge]

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

That body can quickly lose a finger or an eye if we don't separate pathologicals into special function groups after a few days of getting familiar with each other. Children must be protected at all cost, i think, we may have to insert trusted Babysitters or Scout Leaders in children's playing groups to prevent injury. For example playing tag in a forest children with inherited deviations or perinatal damage can bend and hold heavier twigs then release it into the faces of normal children running up to tag them, the result can be eye loss or serious injury! Same with holes in the ground, deviant children not warning their normal playmates about holes in forest ground and enjoying seeing them fall into it, causing broken bones or internal injury.

Probably it would be best to entirely separate pathological children [identified by group consensus] into their own playing group.

Adult special function groups:
Group Alfa: Hunter group chosen from normal individuals goes south
Group Delta: Hunter group composed of brutal deviants goes north

So that they do not even have a chance to meet each other and endanger lifes of normal individuals willingly or unwillingly with hunting tools or choosing too dangerous routes.

Never allow psychopats, characteropaths, etc. to become a cook in the community. Let them weave baskets, haul tree trunks, gather firewood, hunt, organize them for activities that cannot endanger normal people. They can be useful in a society in well thought out positions, probably after a therapy.

As Lobaczewsky points out:
"We should not fault anyone for having inherited some psychological anomalies from his parents anymore, than we fault someone in the case of physical or physiological anomalies such as Daltonism" [Political Ponerology p. 205]

 

[truth seeker]

Now, I'm going to leave aside some of the questions that have been raised for the moment and ask this one:

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

Seems to me the answer is a resounding yes! In the absence of the poisoning of ponerology I believe human beings will naturally cooperate and trust each other, producing and exchanging what others need, and receiving what they need in return, within an environment of cooperation and trust.


--Edit: Grammar

I agree. The only thing I'll add about this is that it would make it easier/smoother people are also somewhat aware of their internal motivations.

I was thinking that if 200 people are in a forest, it might be easier if the first structures are mud huts. They are much quicker to build than houses and I'm told that they are pretty sturdy for temporary shelters.

Also, some people may want to consider taking a wilderness training course or reading up about it to empower them if ever a situation arises. The skills learned seem to be really invaluable as well as giving a more realistic slant on surviving in the wild (eg. while starting a fire with sticks is not impossible, it's not nearly as easy as they make it seem on television).

http://www.mro.org/zmm/retreats/detail/09sp/images/kids.jpg

 

[Peam]

When it got round to building permanent housing and community buildings, would it be best to continue with the normal square format, or start with something different like round buildings.

What about building temporary or semi permanent wigwams to start with, which could be constructed more quickly in order to get everybody under cover sooner.

My thinking here is influenced with thinking about the pyramid people and the circle people.

 

[shijing]

Although pipe breathing is good for what we do with it now, and for relaxing yourself in general, I'm not sure that it is going to cut it in terms of the situation that Tigersoap is describing -- to survive in a life-or-death situation where you have to figure out how to stay alive in an environment you are completely unaccustomed to.

Why not?

Isn't pipe breathing good against stress? Is it better to be all depressed and stressed all the time? Or is it better to start thinking clear again and perhaps do some pipe-breathing to help you with that...

I didn't mean that pipe-breathing couldn't be used (it could, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I thought it was unnecessary), I just felt that it was a solution that was a bit vague in the face of the situation that Tigersoap had been describing. It looks like participation from other members has resolved this line of dialogue since I was last logged in though, and you were right that we were jumping ahead as far as how we should be directing our thinking. Time to catch up with the last three pages that have appeared since (my) last night!

 

[NormaRegula]

Haven't seen "The Trap". Will do so this week.

Aside from the immediate survival basics, (water, food, shelter, etc.) a calm, objective attitude, (thanks to the EE program) knowledge of pathology, suitable task dispersion amongst the 200 or so persons, and education, and entertainment (like singing, storytelling) are key components for group survival. Many posters here have come up with sound ideas.

Still unsure as to how far to go regarding defensive measures since it's almost certain there would be roving bands of pathological survivors taking what they want from the weak. It's not unusual for someone with a conscience to experience trepidation if they are responsible for more vulnerable members. The prospect of seeing a loved one in discomfort, or worse watching them starve, be harmed by another, possibly die of sickness or exposure to the elements, is a horrible thought. Yet everyday on this BBM human beings experience just that. And here in the land of the free, er, frequency fence, it sure looks like such a scenario might be coming to the comfort-loving USA.

Kinda strange that when I was a child one of my favorite games to play with friends was an end-of-the-world scenario (usually involving a nuclear explosion) wherein we would "rebuild civilization." Other similar story lines involved survival by hiding out in the woods from Communists and, get this, alien invaders who had destroyed our infrastructure! (Hey, I was a kid of the 1960's...who watched TV and was already being fed way too much Cold War propaganda.)

Mostly my friends played out the nuclear scenario so we wouldn't be bothered with frequent bad guy (or bad alien) attacks. These kind of attacks were perpetrated by a group of rotten neighborhood kids who delighted in making the girls scream, actually scaring the little kids, and on more than one occasion, wound up wrecking our carefully constructed play areas. Seems like all the neighborhoods I lived in had at least one bully with minions who wanted to join in the game, and always on his terms. Shades of pathology...in childhood no less!

We kids actually called the game "Rebuilding Civilization". All of us had jobs to do. In mid-1960's sexist fashion, the older boys would construct covered lean-tos for shelter, (surprisingly sturdy!) hunt, fish, and guard the encampment from possible intruders, while we women-folk would cook, weave, sew, plant gardens, nurse, and watch the children. The younger kids played our children. Some were orphans who had wandered into camp...others were part of families. Our children did assorted chores, hunted for berries or watched the pretend cow we found for milk. One boy played a professor-type who did experiments to create electricity and made gadgets. He and I taught some of the kids how to read, write, add, and subtract using a small chalk board, lines in the sand, or from the few books we managed to find in the ruins. All of us acted together...like a large, extended family.

I remember being obsessed with pioneer life because of this game...and read books on how to weave, churn butter, cook over a campfire, and taught it to my friends. We would spend hours "rebuilding civilization...and never got bored. Most of the kids thought it was more fun than playing war where all girls did was sit by a tent and play nurse...or get harassed by the bully and his minions! Rebuilding Civilization also gave stiff competition to games based on favorite American TV shows like Combat, Batman, Man from Uncle, Lost in Space, etc.. It was an adventure of our own making. Some parents, however, were disturbed by the end-of-the-world theme and thought this was an unhealthy game. Guess they would have preferred us to play something more "healthy"...like war!

Now, here is a stranger thing: I remember thinking to myself as a child playing this game that it might really happen (not necessarily the nuclear scenario, just a collapse of civilization) at sometime in the future, so I'd better remember some of the survival skills I learned. Then I got older, and this memory of the game faded as I entered my teens and became obsessed with appearance, selfish pursuits, and negatively-programmed life in general.

Hope I'm not creating noise here. It was just a child's game. However, the cooperation, imagination, and problem-solving was creative. We rarely had fights over who was going to be whom (cause we knew who we were!) or who was going to do what. (This was not always the case with our other games.) Once we established our priorities and jobs to rebuild civilization, things sort of flowed from there.

Am looking forward to reading this thread and watching it progress. This is an excellent exercise to network possibilities that may be needed down the road...or sooner perhaps.

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=Ana] This is still more confusing to me, What do you mean by “the mechanism used for my arrival here”?
Well, I just don’t know what to answer because I don’t really understand your point.[/quote]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call humanity a species since there is sufficient DNA similarity among humans which also distinguishes us from other biological life forms. We as a group reproduce as a biological necessity. It’s the biological 3D process that provides the conduit for reincarnating souls.

Knowing this has always been accompanied with the awareness that I am human with responsibility to humanity as a whole. I’m not merely a separated individual. It is to the whole of humanity that I inherently belong as an individual.

Since I was writing in somewhat general terms I was considering those with higher centers and those without as two groups within the same species due to the thorough mixture of DNA.

This is going off topic I think.

 

[Nienna]

We observe that there is a majority of people in our group who, even if they have been ponerized as was shown in "The Trap," will still probably be able to respond to their human instincts of caring and sharing. So we can assume that since this is how the majority is, that is how humankind initially evolved.

I think that with a little time (and pipe breathing) they would calm down. And then with a little direction from others, they would be able to contribute quite well.

Okay, so pathologicals are mutants that "do not play nice." We see that it is SUPER important for someone in the group to have this knowledge, to be able to spot it and share that information with the rest. Perhaps this was a shamanic role in some tribal societies - they could "see" the pathology more or less "psychically".

This is extremely important, or so I think. To have someone knowledgeable enough to see what is being done and by whom. Also, educating others in what to look for and be aware of. Then, these psychopaths could be given the ultimatum that was suggesting by AI. Either help out the group or leave. And, yes, I realize that this does not help if they are armed. But I have to agree with those who say that violence breeds violence and would myself not want to kill someone. That's going to have to be discussed further I think.

We notice that care and concern for others is the consciousness energy director for MOST of the people. Some people mention "family groups," and certainly there may be some there, but under these circumstance, what is really important is the HUMAN family, and that the caring and sharing is more or less modeled on a healthy family where there are multiple generations living together and the elders care for the children while the parents do the work. We also notice that there may be some disabled people who can also care for children, and perhaps be apprenticed as crafts people or medical people etc. So, just because they cannot dig ditches doesn't mean that they are not worthy. Again, we see a family dynamic where if you have a child who is disabled, you don't throw them away, you care for them and there are things they can do to contribute.

Yes, disable children and adults can still contribute in different ways. It all depends on their disabilities. Just because someone is disabled does not make them worthless.

Now, I'm going to leave aside some of the questions that have been raised for the moment and ask this one:

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

YES! That would be the best way to go about this sort of thing. And, as in a family, everyone takes care of each other. When one part of the macrocosmic human body gets hurt, so it goes for the whole body. So in order to stay healthy, every part of the body must be taken care of. Any part that goes against the body and tries to hurt another part of it should be taken care of quickly before it infects any other parts, etc.

 

[forge]

And, meantime, we have more or less finished the trial version of a video I made a few weeks ago as a test - it wasn't intended to be released, but I sorta got on a roll and the people here liked it and the Cs apparently liked it, so it's up here:
http://cassiopaea.org/knowledge_and_being/

Congratulations on the video! Thanks for making & sharing this! You look lovely and professional. Seeing you in good health is reassuring and the reality about the spirit board was a lot of fun! Can't wait for the next part!