Creating a New World

[Echo Blue]

I've just begun reading this thread. Lots to think about.

Laura wrote:
Start anywhere. Maybe we should start talking about what is wrong with various systems and what could be done to fix them, if anything. If they are wrong at the foundation, what to replace them with?

And apologies if this has already been covered, but my first thoughts are:

1) SUPPORT: Families (and people in general) have no support system. Sure there is always those social outreach programs but they are limited in what they can do and when they can do. So people need to feel like they belong somewhere, like there is someone there if needed. Families are so spread out, not living near each other. They've lost that connection to each other. We need to find a reason to connect again.

2) COMMUNITY: unless you are a member of a church, there is little sense of belonging or community. At least that is what I've observed during my lifetime. Like the forum here, where people can come and discuss their issues or concerns and find people willing to answer their questions, people need to find a community where they can be supported and also offer support. A win-win situation.

Well, that's my beginning thoughts on the matter. Now I'll continue readidng on.

~ Echo Blue

 

[manitoban]

Wow, this is a very thought provoking thread and requires a great deal of thought to actually envision what we would have to do to survive such a situation. Really makes me realise how completely helpless and ignorant I am.

Just a few initial thoughts - Getting back to the very basics of simply surviving - the main factors as have been mentioned would be food/water/shelter/safety. The group would initially have to work together to provide these for all, with perhaps those with particular skills stepping up to do whatever job they are best able to do.

I do think that in addition to providing these basics, once they were in place, it would be very good to continue, whenever possible the breathing program and even the dancing at some point. The EE program will help keep people calm and thinking clearer which would contribute to group harmony, and the dancing could possibly help to protect us from STS interference/ frequency fence. Maybe at first we don't have the time to do anything other than basic survival, but I'm assuming the STS are still around and acting against us so we will still need to deal with that.

 

[Nienna]

The point I was trying to make is that we're talking about something without knowing all the parameters involved.

Is there anyone of us who actually lived through such things yet ? or who has experience in survival in difficult times ?
I'd be interested to have a point of view from such person because it might shed some light on this.

I haven't had the time to watch "the trap" yet.

We can talk as much as we want but as long as we are not faced with the situation itself, things might get totally different than what we imagined them to be.
And I do think of how to survive if society suddenly crumbles.
I try to be as objective with how I would cope with such event, so I will not say that I am convinced that with hope and the EE alone I could make it, unless as a group we find ways to solve problems in situation of stress and danger.
It's already hard as it is to sometimes be on the same page in this forum so in the middle of nowhere with 200 people ?

People have survived alone on desert island or trapped high on a mountain for sure so there is always a possibility that a group can make it if they work toward the same goal osit.

Tigersoap, I find that your resistance to this exercise is interesting. Why the resistance? Did you miss the reason Laura gave, which was nicely emphasized by got2go:

These are all things that have to be thought about and worked through carefully.

You see, my thought is kind of like that movie from way back when where they said "If you build it, they will come." Well, if we can imagine how a society is structured that is ready to be aligned with 4 D STO, then perhaps "it will come." And maybe, to some extent, once we get the principles worked out, some of us can begin living them to some extent.

I think this is something that we might discuss with the Cs, but I want us to do our homework first!

You are very artistic and creative. Do you think that with that creativity of yours, you would not be able to contribute anything?

And I don't remember Oxajil saying that EE and hope ONLY will keep us alive. Only that it will help us to be calmer so that we can THINK of how to survive.

Do you not think that within those 200 people that there wouldn't be some that would have some ideas and skills that when put together with others' ideas and skills that we couldn't come up with some sort of survival setting?

It doesn't matter where you are, there are going to be problems to overcome. That is what this discussion is about. You say you need more parameters in order to know what to do and yet, these have been given to you.

There are 200 people in a forest clearing. That means that there is a forest around you. No, we don't know the season, nor where the forest is, nor what has just happened. But we should be able to know what needs to be done to help us survive.

Just standing there stating that you don't know anything about this and then just give up is not contributing to the cause. Is this how you would help your wife and little girl, but giving up before you have already started?

I think in that situation, as has been pointed out by Oxajil, doing the pipe breathing to calm down and help you to start thinking with your intellect, instead of your emotions would be a great benefit to the well-being of all. ;)

fwiw

 

[Nević Nenad]

I assumed that we don’t have anything and just popped out in the forest. So I was thinking in that line in my previous posts.


With having any tool, even single steel knife is whole another story. And I think that we can forget of any tool or gadget that uses electricity. And in our civilization if you don’t have electricity you don’t have anything at all, you are bare naked. In situation as Laura described I doubt that we would have electricity and you can forget about any battery in few hours.


Some of us said “group will do that, do this” even EE program, but I have understand that there will be all sorts of people so there is no group, in first time for sure. I know for myself that I for sure can’t do EE and dancing with people dying around me from hunger, thirst, lack of medications for their chronic illness. And even if we have gadgets and tools older and weak people will die. Woods are usually moist and cold.


Sometimes we, who lives in big cities, forget how human life is fragile, and how just a ridiculously small amount of food and water means life or death, no more no less. Health man’s life is fragile; imagine old, child, and sick ones.


GotoGo made good question about psychopaths.

Can we be 'creative' to defend ourselves WITHOUT applying any VIOLENCE methods here?

I was wandering that also. What can we do, even if we manage somehow to detect them soon? And how to detect them anyway? All that they must do is to take on some good mask of sanity and be good and helping in the first time. I doubt that they will show themselves immediately, and if they find their alikes and connect with them, what then? I don’t know.

 

[forge]

Water: volunteers to find it and get it
Food: : volunteers to find it and get it
Warmth: sleep close to each other to keep warm
[forest clearing scenario: water and food may be more or less present]

Calming everybody: singing, speaking up about plans, ideas, building trust and that everybody is needed.

Sub-groups may have to be formed for carrying out planned actions: where members more or less understand common good.

Shelter: 1. makeshift roofs, then 2. build houses

If the situation could be stabilized and everybody sleeps in houses:
Education is paramount, i think. All willing members may want to learn as much as they can from the experts. If there is only one doctor, a good idea is - i think - to assign assistant-students to her/him immediately and to all experts of other professions too. If the expert dies, some of her/his knowledge can be retained.

Dealing with madness resulting from pathology is probably a life-saver. (The Trap ep 1.)
After everybody has a house, people might become too convenient, complacent, less survival-oriented. The predator in our minds probably would manifest stronger: envy, sexual assault, physical agression, madness, scheming may become rampant. New Orleans Superdome experiment after Hurricane Katrina came to my mind.

All Hell breaks loose example: physically strongest hunter members of the community suddenly turning aggressor would have to understand their clothing and medicine is coming from the weaker and peaceful members of the community. If the hunter aggressor persists becoming the king by force, the members should respond with revolt. This supposes unity, but in reality probably everyone will bow to physical aggression and the wife-taking actions of the hunters.

Madness resulting from pathologies has to be contained for survival and normality, i think. (The Trap ep 1.)

Circles within circles is a very good idea by MC. If we managed to stabilize the community with everybody living in houses, then only the willing and those asking may receive initiation into inner circles, where members have higher awareness, practice paleochristianity along with 5th Way, asking .
- How can all members of our members prosper and how to act and think in unison to achieve it?
- How is the process of sympathy and understanding of others [The Trap ep 2. [00:18:03] is going in the outer circles?
(Channeling 6th density STO would be a good idea if capable person is present in the innermost circle.)

It is mind-blowing how ideas of few mad geniuses influenced society without critical background checks by same society.. The Trap appears to me a brief history of rape of humankind. I was wondering about this repeated sick idea of politicians of bringing liberties to people, while secretly robbing them of same.

(intense emotional moments: 00:04:21.641 - Trap ep. 3)
(Kambodian revolution 3 million people dead!! 00:17:21.353 - Trap ep. 3 )

The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0979263/
3 episodes - all are 59 minutes long

The Defiance, a movie mentioned by Johnno is also a good watch, i think.

 

[forge]

[edit]
- How can all members of our community prosper and how to act and think in unison to achieve it?

 

[Mountain Crown]

Children should be taught that the reason they exist is for the survival of the species. It is natural. Their self worth then would also be natural, founded on the understanding of necessity.

From this they could be repeated told that they are loved completely and treasured by all, not their parents alone; that they will be protected and cared for by all, at all times. (Part of this protectioon would include witholding from them some of the gravity of the situation.) I think that a sense of being loved by the group, for the group, would develop a kind of protection from pathology during the formation of their egos.

There’s no reason why a certain emphasis on social education and attention to learning about emotions couldn’t be apart of early education. I think children are more aware of feelings than much else about their selves, so starting “where they are” makes sense to me. The primary learning tools would ideally be stories, simple object lesson riddles, and of course lessons drawn from immediate events.

Early education of the intellect could center on memorization of essential facts geared toward survival and preparation for critical thinking later on (math, reading, writing.) They might be encouraged to use and share their inquisitive natures while asked to admit how fun it is to learn.

Developing the motor as an instrument of knowing could also be addressed. Instead of just sitting and listening, observation while learning to dance, singing songs and acting out simple stories without words are things children naturally love to do.

 

[ana]

Children should be taught that the reason they exist is for the survival of the species. It is natural. Their self worth then would also be natural, founded on the understanding of necessity.

I just cannot understand this MC, do you think you do exist for the survival of an specie?
Wich specie?

 

[Alana]

I think the point Oxajil was making is that people should not give up, Tigersoap's comment hit me as an emotional center taking control, it's quite understandable of course, if you can't build it doesn't mean you lose and die.

[quote author=Oxajil]We will do our best to keep us all surviving, if we are not near the coast then we'll have to do with what we got. And if there is really nothing, then I guess the ones who can walk, the ones who are strong should be walking long roads to find something and if they're strong enough, then come back or start a society themselves.

The point I was trying to make is that we're talking about something without knowing all the parameters involved.[/quote]

When we are in this situation, a group of 200 strangers in a clearing in the forests, we don't know much of the parameters involved anyway.

We can talk as much as we want but as long as we are not faced with the situation itself, things might get totally different than what we imagined them to be.
And I do think of how to survive if society suddenly crumbles.
I try to be as objective with how I would cope with such event, so I will not say that I am convinced that with hope and the EE alone I could make it, unless as a group we find ways to solve problems in situation of stress and danger.

I think Bo is right, Tigersoap. you are letting your emotions of fear take control of you. This doesn't allow you to see that doing the EE to calm us down and help us find hope inside, will better enable us as a group to find solutions "in situations of stress and danger".

Here's how i see it: all of us participating in this discussion ARE already in the clearing in a way (i just got here after making my way through a forest of 13 or so pages of posts ;) ). We are all sitting around assessing the situation, and of course there will be those who will be controlled by their fear of the uncertainty and danger of the situation and unable to think clearly, which is natural. Now, you appear as one of those, feeling the fear, helpless in a situation you can't control and pessimistic.

At the same time, i see Oxajil for some time now trying to suggest different ways to you, helping you out of your state. But you are stuck to your anxieties. As i see that you came to the clearing with a wife and child, i am also concerned about your state, and so my reply to you is:

YOU NEED TO GET OUT OF YOUR INTERNAL CONSIDERATION AND GET UP AND MAKE EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO ENSURE THE SURVIVAL OF YOUR FAMILY AND YOURSELF!

[it is possible that in real life in such situation i'd be shouting at you, perhaps give you a slap in the face to get your blood moving, and brain thinking! :P ]

And please, don't get what i am saying the wrong way. Perhaps you are now feeling the initial panic of the situation, but down the road, you calm down and contribute wherever you can, you make up beautiful funny stories to put your child to sleep full of dreams of hope and survival.

Perhaps down the road, when i see that we can't find water, i'd be screaming hysterically that we are all going to die, myself. And i beg any of you to slap my face too if i don't get a grip on myself with Oxajil's (or anyone else's) hope-giving suggestions

Fwiw

 

[1984]

Children should be taught that the reason they exist is for the survival of the species. It is natural. Their self worth then would also be natural, founded on the understanding of necessity.

Hi MC - Could you expound a bit on this statement?

edit: looks like Ana already asked this question. :)

 

[Buddy]

Either survive with the rest of us, by contributing to our efforts. Or try surviving on your own for a while and see how much easier it is to contribute in THIS setting." Then again, maybe an ultimatum isn't the best way to put it! I don't know. Maybe those who do not contribute get to miss out on benefits, like being high on the list for house-living. Maybe they eat last, etc.

Another time honored principle from instinct is that without work there is no survival. Even in our advanced technological society idleness is considered abnormal.

So far, what I've got from the thread, Laura's questions, and the videos is that a starting point might be to take a deep breath, survey the situation, remove any immediate threats to health and life in the environment, take a mental stock of all that is known about pathology and how we've all been programmed... and then set some initial priorities in terms of how to behave next and what needs to be communicated among people.

I think it is safe to say that anyone who wants to survive and is not up to speed on the ponerology subject will need to know that:

1) Work is going to have to get done. This work includes everything from an evaluation of immediate health needs to a survey of what resources are available and what resources are needed, both for the immediate short term and longer term.

2) There are people who will naturally step up to the task(s) at hand, those who cannot due to factors beyond their control, and those who will not (prima donnas, etc).

3) Certain information needs to be shared among all the individuals so that people have a way to interpret certain behaviors that could be immediately threatening or dangerous a little later down the road. In other words, certain pathological principles that are known and can be demonstrated through easy explanation, especially in terms that anyone can understand by surveying their own previous life experience.

4) Individuals needing help, food or anything else can be assured that those who attempt to operate on STO principles for the survival of the group, will give ALL to those who ASK.

For the ASKer's benefit, this could be explained in terms of the difference between ASKing and demanding.
If a given individual understands the principles upon which help, support and survival depend, then that individual will understand that an emergency situation exists and it will be necessary to operate within a reciprocal arrangement so that all can survive.

This would require effort/contribution of some kind on some kind of exchange basis so that energy and resources aren't drained to support someone at the expense of someone else.

Toward that end, a person can be assumed as wanting to participate in the community by ASKing for help. ASKing for help can be understood as offering to contribute something in exchange for what is needed. ASKing for help without offering to contribute something can be understood as DEMANDING and will not be supported. In such a case, the DEMANDING individual will receive what is needed, but is not likely to appreciate it since it was DEMANDED (because it wasn't what was wanted, but was what he/she needed).


Apologies if this post is too long-winded. After watching The Trap, there's a lot of thinking I need to do about the way I'm even thinking about this issue.

If there is anything in this post I need to look at a different way through a mirror, I would appreciate one. :/

 

[John G]

Circles within circles is a very good idea by MC.

From http://tap3x.net/ENSEMBLE/mpage1d.html

... the emphasis of Type Threes is on the most general personal and human goals of organizations. [They are] concerned with 'serving humanity', with 'making a contribution to humanity'. ... the organization exists to serve the personal and social needs of people. ...[it] is completely decentralized with no clear lines of authority, no central leader, and no fixed, prescribed rules of behavior. ..[they emphasizes] 'flexibility' and 'decentralization', [and use] diagrams showing their ideal organization to be circular or wheel-like in structure rather than hierarchical. Everyone is free to talk and to interact with everyone else with-out fear of exceeding one's authority or station. ...Type three organizations are the epitome of organic, adaptive institutions, as they are known in the organizational theory literature. ...The heroes of type threes are not only able to envision new lines of direction, that is, new goals, objectives, and so forth, for their organization ... but they are also able to give the organization a new sense of direction in the human or personal sense.

 

[Laura]

Okay, okay!!! Slow down! All I can say is that if I'm gonna be in a group in the forest, I want all of you peeps with me because there are GREAT ideas here!

But, as I said, figuring out how to survive in such a situation is not the real point; the point is to make some observations about basic principles.

Now, looking at our group from a distance we have several scenarios that could play out that depend entirely on the nature of the individuals involved. The example of the aborigines who shared everything was a good bit of input because that is what people under dire circumstances usually learn: share and help one another or die.

We observe that there is a majority of people in our group who, even if they have been ponerized as was shown in "The Trap," will still probably be able to respond to their human instincts of caring and sharing. So we can assume that since this is how the majority is, that is how humankind initially evolved. We also notice some pathology in our group (some of you created such groups, so there they are.) What to do about pathology? We suspect that pathology is due to mutation because, obviously, as we have seen from "The Trap," human beings could not have evolved into psychopaths because they would have destroyed each other (and themselves) eons ago.

Okay, so pathologicals are mutants that "do not play nice." We see that it is SUPER important for someone in the group to have this knowledge, to be able to spot it and share that information with the rest. Perhaps this was a shamanic role in some tribal societies - they could "see" the pathology more or less "psychically".

We notice that care and concern for others is the consciousness energy director for MOST of the people. Some people mention "family groups," and certainly there may be some there, but under these circumstance, what is really important is the HUMAN family, and that the caring and sharing is more or less modeled on a healthy family where there are multiple generations living together and the elders care for the children while the parents do the work. We also notice that there may be some disabled people who can also care for children, and perhaps be apprenticed as crafts people or medical people etc. So, just because they cannot dig ditches doesn't mean that they are not worthy. Again, we see a family dynamic where if you have a child who is disabled, you don't throw them away, you care for them and there are things they can do to contribute.

Now, I'm going to leave aside some of the questions that have been raised for the moment and ask this one:

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

There are plenty of ideas in this thread that are the seeds of such concepts. And we've seen from "The Trap" that freedom and democracy and "capitalism aren't what they are cracked up to be. In fact, they are rather effective tools for psychopaths.

And, meantime, we have more or less finished the trial version of a video I made a few weeks ago as a test - it wasn't intended to be released, but I sorta got on a roll and the people here liked it and the Cs apparently liked it, so it's up here:
http://cassiopaea.org/knowledge_and_being/

Later on this evening, when I have a little time, I'm going to address a few more of the posts in this thread!

 

[Mountain Crown]

I was thinking in terms that it is natural to have children as well as essential for survival, however important it is to have children for personal reasons. We are hard wired for not only producing offspring but for rearing them as well. Hormonal and neurological changes for this occur naturally.

It takes only a little more than a decade for the bio-energetic process to begin switching from growth to the development of the reproductive capacity.

If there is there a cause for alarm about this, I’m open.

[quote author=Ana] I just cannot understand this MC, do you think you do exist for the survival of an specie?
Wich specie? [/quote]

Yes. I’ve understood that as the mechanism used for my arrival here, but not that solely. Maybe I should have said Humanity?

 

[Buddy]

Now, I'm going to leave aside some of the questions that have been raised for the moment and ask this one:

Can society be structured like a family? Like a macrocosmic human body?

Seems to me the answer is a resounding yes! In the absence of the poisoning of ponerology I believe human beings will naturally cooperate and trust each other, producing and exchanging what others need, and receiving what they need in return, within an environment of cooperation and trust.


--Edit: Grammar