'Crocodile Hunter' Steve Irwin dies in stingray attack

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John chang wrote;
What he did was fairly risky. I always wondered when the odds would catch up with him.

Same here John,it was no shock to me on reading of his death today. I just kind of knew it was coming.I saw oly about two of his programmes and never watched again. I personally did not think he showed any respect for the animals he prodded about.Where as such a naturalist as David attenborough (?) most certainly did,and is still with us.

Still one doesnt feel great about knowing he was going to be killed by his anctics.
 
wow, this has got everyone going.

My personal view is that Steve the 'crocodile man' was definitely a performer personality, but this wasn't just a hollow ego thing (though I'm sure he got more and more succeptible to that as he got famous), he seemed to have a real passion for nature, and wildlife, (not just crocs!), and he put his passion into that, and into sharing his experience and knowledge with others. He loved what he did, and did it with firm conviction.

He certainly took risks, and so these risks were transferred onto his family. Whether that's totally a bad thing or not I'm undecided. Perhaps, on the other hand, if he took NO risks at all then he would equally be doing his child a disservice?

I was sad to hear about his death, he seemed to be a remarkable character with a huge zest for life. If he was looking down on us now I don't think he'd be too bothered by us criticising him, I think he made the most of his time here, and he seemed to do what he came to do, if that makes any sense/
 
beau said:
Well, when I first read of what happened to him this morning, I was saddened. The guy brought plenty of joy into my life. What he chose to do, with bringing his child near an croc and other things, were his decisions and I'm not going to criticize him for them, especially since he passed. I also thought those who criticized him were being insensitive. You want to complain about that, do it then and leave it at that. To bring it up when he has just died is inappropriate imo. Even though what he did was probably irresponsible, I don't think it's good timing to bring it up now. .
As for him being criticized for bringing his child near the croc, he was an expert on crocs and his knowledge of them probably made him feel he could keep his child safe. He saw them in a different way then the average person and had years of experience in dealing with them. I doubt that he felt he was putting the child in danger. Or so it seems to me.
 
I use to like Crocodile Hunter when I first saw him.
His enthusiasm and fascination with animal world was catchy. But very soon it has become obvious man is just a media whre ( I was totally disgusted when he flaunted his own baby in front of the muzzle of 6ft salt water crocodile, not to mention his "frolicking" with deadliest snakes on the planet)

Everyone who works with animals knows that first you have to always respect them and second you always have to remeber that certain boundaries are never to be pushed. He kept pushing these boundaries and it was a matter of time when is he going to pay for it.
Today I was watching dutch media coverage and it was slighlty ironic ( even the presenter had wierd smirk on her face)
they announced his death and then played some old footage I've never seen before...in it he was bragging how safe he feels and how there is no even slight chance that something bad could happen to him - it was clear guy was delusional
and as cruel as it may sound he has got what he was asking for, its as simple as that
 
Sue said:
As for him being criticized for bringing his child near the croc, he was an expert on crocs and his knowledge of them probably made him feel he could keep his child safe. He saw them in a different way then the average person and had years of experience in dealing with them. I doubt that he felt he was putting the child in danger. Or so it seems to me.
wild animal is just wild animal be it a crock or any other species , if you are an expert then you know that one rule always applies - wild animal is unpredictable full stop.
I see it as pure media stunt ridding high on waves of his ego totally forgeting about his duties as a father

but thats my humble opinion
 
I know what he did was reckless and risky, but to some extent, but so are many other things. What about construction workers or mine workers or taxi drivers or any other person that does something dangerous. I can understand that he had children and I agree that, for their sake, it probably would've been a wiser decision to minimize risk.

Having said that, he I perceived him to be a passionate and a very kind man. He seemed to love animals, love people, and honestly his work WAS his passion, he LOVED what he did. The fact that he died doing what he loved is probably not as important as the fact that he lived doing what he loved. He just did what was in him to do, and I really cannot fault him for that. The question now is, what has he accomplished in his life, what effect did he have on mankind due to his show, was it a positive one or a negative one or neutral? What results came from his life's efforts?

I know context must be considered - thousands of good and loving and innocent people die every day, often not even because of any risk THEY took but simply because they were at the mercy of ruthless lying psychopaths. I am saddened by Steve's death, but as with the death of any celebrity, I think it is wrong to grieve for him any more than for any other person. We're expected to grieve for the likes of Princess Diana or Steve Irwin or Terry Schiavo, and the media spends WEEKS talking about it while thousands upon thousands die every day and nobody grieves for them. This is the real terror of the situation, that masses of people can be so made to be so sad for ONE person, and totally indifferent to thousands of others. Just that fact alone makes this world one messed up place.

I am sad he died, I'm even shocked (although to be honest, every time I saw him do something crazy on TV I cringed as I knew that one of these days it'll be his last stunt). But as others have already said, let us not buy into the media craze and accept this in the proper context - there are thousands of Steve Irwins dying each day for no damn good reason.
 
Exact same thoughts SAO. Couldn't have put it any better. I read about Steve's death yesterday and initially, yes I was saddened by it and I was trying to think what his wife and two young children must be going through. But after a while, it occured to me that, as you so aptly put,

SAO said:
We're expected to grieve for the likes of Princess Diana or Steve Irwin or Terry Schiavo, and the media spends WEEKS talking about it while thousands upon thousands die every day and nobody grieves for them.
who mourns for the thousands of nameless and faceless people that get killed or die in the most horrible ways imaginable?
 
I don't think I ever saw the guy since I don't watch television and know nothing about him. I DO remember reading a short news brief about the croc/baby incident some time ago and it struck me as an extremely ignorant thing to do, but then no more ignorant than most people are, each in their own way. After all, holding your child close to a croc is no more ignorant than not seeing what the Zionists and Neocons are up to... they are, in fact, far more dangerous and unpredictable critters. They are devouring the babies of a lot of people daily in the jaws of war.

In other words, there are far more important and dangerous things going on here on our planet to get worked up about. This guy played in a certain arena of risks and the odds were against him and he lost. It's really that simple. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Yes, he probably was an exhibitionist, craved attention, a narcissist, etc. But then, so are a lot of people "in the business." He just found his particular niche for attention grabbing since that was his area of "talent." Different strokes for different folks. For all we know (and we don't know) he was an OP spokesperson for the reptillian family of critters. Right or wrong, crazy or not, he was living his life by his own lights and it's really not for any of us to judge him without walking a mile or two in his moccasins. Notice I said "judge," and did not say "assess" or "criticize."

Which brings me to one thing in this discussion that strikes me as interesting:

Beau said:
What he chose to do, with bringing his child near an croc and other things, were his decisions and I'm not going to criticize him for them, especially since he passed.
Now, Beau, what is special or holy about being dead that makes it imperative that someone NOT be criticized? Does a person suddenly acquire some characteristics of sanctity when they are dead by virtue of being dead? This sounds like a cultural program to me, and one that has been often used to protect evil. It goes along with the "don't say anything if you can't say something nice" and "least said, soonest mended" types of programs that serve to keep the activities of psychopaths who rule the world hidden in the shadows. In fact, it reminds me a bit of Lobaczewski's remarks as follows:

Thus, the biological, psychological, moral, and economic destruction of the majority of normal people becomes, for the pathocrats, a "biological" necessity. Many means serve this end, starting with concentration camps and including warfare with an obstinate, well-armed foe who will devastate and debilitate the human power thrown at him, namely the very power jeopardizing pathocrats rule: the sons of normal man sent out to fight for an illusionary "noble cause." Once safely dead, the soldiers will then be decreed heroes to be revered in paeans, useful for raising a new generation faithful to the pathocracy and ever willing to go to their deaths to protect it.
How do we know that this guy wasn't just as much a victim of the pathocratic world view as anyone else, his ideas and personality twisted and used for their purposes, sent out to do a certain job that cost him his life, and now he can be eulogized as a great example to others, revered in paeans of praise, raising up a new generation of equally careless individuals like himself?

We don't.

What we do know is that he is dead now and certainly his wife and children are bereft and deserve a bit of empathy.

Finally, again, we cannot judge the man but we can observe and assess. For all we know (and we don't know), his death may have a very different result, intentional or not: it may teach someone else something valuable. We can observe, speculate, and even pontificate until the cows come home, but actually, there are other more important things to think and talk about. People die every day, people better and worse than this crocodile hunter person. Again, if you have emotional energy to spend, spend it where it counts.
 
I just want to point out because no one has mentioned it so far that Irwin was an incredibly experienced and above all skilled handler of animals. He inherited these skills from his father who made a profession out of removing dangerous crocodiles from areas in which they and their human inhabitants were at mutual risk. To suggest that he was not incredibly passionate about conservation, awareness and the wellbeing of animals is untrue. Most of the programmes I have seen him in dramatised the risk he was putting himself in for entertainment reasons. There are many people who handle venemous snakes on a regular basis in a variety of situations and deaths are surprisingly rare because they are mostly very predictable. In fact it is ironic that he was finally killed by one of the least aggressive animals which he has ever worked with, and also one which he had minimal experience in dealing with. For each animal which he handled only for the sake of the camera, he rescued many more.

Having said that, Irwin was the most flamboyant of the current crop of 'extreme animal handler people' and he did take the risk of working with animals which he did not specialise in. The incident with the baby was not as dangerous as it looked, he knew EXACTLY what his limits were, but did it bring anything of value: ie. was it worth it? No.

I agree with Laura that this thread may have revealed a program within many of us which illogically suggests that the dead are above criticism (until some time has passed, usually). To do this in a callous manner with little evidence of empathy and much judgement is what I disagree with.
 
Perhaps it's just me, i wasn't affected by this story. Wasn't surprised either. People die when they do risking business, sometimes they don't.

That fact that THIS story gets attention when thousands are dieing abroad kinda sickens me. Its as if they use this event to distract attention away.

::grumbles::
 
A very interesting thread, and I can't say I'm at all surprised by the mixed responses. I believe Laura is right though in saying that there are far more important things to get worked up about, when you consider what is happening in our world, and where it's headed, but that said, I myself was still very upset by Irwin's death.

I know this sounds absurd, but many other people I know have said a similar thing -- I felt as if I knew the guy. His personality was larger-than-life, and so the announcement of his death was -- and still is -- a very difficult thing to believe.

Having read the replies in this thread thus far, I feel compelled to reply to some of the negative responses. For one thing, Steve Irwin did not "get what he asked for", especially since you consider the fact that in Australia, only about 3 people have ever died from Sting Rays. Also, it has now been confirmed here in Australia, by the Queensland Police who have viewed the footage of his death, that Irwin did not in any way provoke the animal. So while Irwin may have indeed done some very risky things in his career, his death was not at all the result of anything risky. Tourists swim near and with stingrays all the time on the Barrier Reef, and you seldom hear of any incident, and if you do, it's almost never a death (like I said above).

Someone suggested that Irwin may be psychopathic, and yet I know that Irwin cries every time he sees animals who die. The Darwin Galapagos tortoise, the oldest in the world (Darwin himself discovered this particular tortoise), died only several months ago in Australia Zoo, and Irwin was devastated by it. So clearly the man had the capacity to feel.

I admit that when I first saw Irwin on television five years ago or so, I was embarrassed by his persona and thought immediately that everything was one giant act fuelled by a monumental ego. However this is not so. Every person you speak to who knows Irwin has confirmed that the way he is on-screen is identical to the way he is off-screen. The man was the real deal. He's always been over-the-top, ever since he was a boy. He very probably had ADD. But rather than being subdued by drugs (they didn't really have them back then for ADD), he channelled his energy in a very positive way. What's more, the high-profile, Hollywood-style image he made for himself, although some may see it as distasteful, was all for a fantastic cause. How many Hollywood stars do you see pouring all their money into buying up huge tracts of wild land, for the sake of preserving animals and the environment? Irwin urged the millionaires of the world to do likewise -- buy land to stop it from being destroyed. Anyhow, that's exactly what Irwin did, and no doubt this will continue as he would have wished. Australia Zoo employs 500 staff, all of whom were devastated by his death. All of them loved the man like a close friend -- he was their friend. All of them were (and will be) treated with utmost respect by the Irwins and you can pretty much guarantee that the very large majority of Irwin's earnings went straight back into the zoo and towards bringing about awareness to wildlife which is endangered. And for that, I think I can forgive his pop-star-like character.

Mark said:
What kind of person would put themselves in extreme physical danger over and over and over knowing full well that there are people who depend on him? Dealing with psychopaths can be dangersous, sure, but confronting crocodiles, snakes, and all kinds of other wild creatures is just plain foolish if not outright stupid.
Well, one could argue that Laura Knight-Jadczyk has done this. I believe it was Martha Neymann who actually accused her of putting her children in danger through the work she does, but then went further to suggest that it was her fault, rather than blaming the psychopaths. While there is little real equivalence between the two situations (since the analogy between psychopaths and dangerous animals is not as good as it might first appear), one thing is equivalent: Steve Irwin put himself in danger doing what he loved, but not out of selfishness -- he did it because he cared deeply about animals and wanted the world to share his concern (sure he did it in a questionable way many times, but it still did the trick). Laura does what she loves, if you could use that word, but once again, it's not selfish, but rather motivated by her deep concern about the state of the world we live in and the terrible lies and deception which is used to control us. In both situations, children were/are put at risk.

The other day someone mentioned that Steve Irwin was a "superior" human being (compared to many), and while it's a very controversial word, I guess in one particular sense he was "superior" because he put his money where his mouth was and did something worthwhile for the greater good of planet earth (helping wildlife and the environment). But be that as it may, after hearing this comment, I then thought to myself that someone who is far "superior" to anyone on this earth right now would have to be Laura (and it's not really a word that I like to use, and Laura would feel likewise). A better phrase would be "far more perspicacious". What she has endured and gone through to discover a simple thing called "truth" is nothing short of remarkable, and it's far harder than battling any crocodiles or other ferocious creatures. What's more, it's a largely thankless, unrecognised, ignored or else ridiculed task, and yet it's by far the most important thing anyone has ever done on this planet.
 
Ben said:
I agree with Laura that this thread may have revealed a program within many of us which illogically suggests that the dead are above criticism (until some time has passed, usually). To do this in a callous manner with little evidence of empathy and much judgement is what I disagree with.
It reminds me actually of the program not to question what happened on 911 out of "respect" for the dead. That is silly of course, because how can you respect the dead by not questioning the manner in which they died and possibly buying into a lie?

Either way, it is probably a better idea for all those dead-respecting folks to try to respect the living a little first, and worry about the dead second, osit. If cemeteries keep growing, soon the dead will own more real-estate than the living, and then we'll REALLY be forced to question our priorities, and hopefully our sanity while we're at it! :P
 
Below are two news videos on the "Crocodile Hunter", and some first impressions that popped up in my mind as I watched them.

This story is too just too good, has too many interesting angles to it, and has far too much distraction value for the PTB to let go of it right away. This is especially seen in the second video, a veritable news orgy, milking every conceivable angle.

And let's not forget, terror titillating fear value. Why worry about the Middle East when...

AOL-ABC video said:
"[...] when it's poisoned barb apparently pierced his heart."
And you get a picture this lethal 9 inch sting-ray barb which looks just like a knife blade.

P of Z no.12 said:
What is the part played by the press today? It serves to excite and inflame those passions which are needed for our purpose or else it serves selfish ends of parties. It is often vapid, unjust, mendacious, and the majority of the public have not the slightest idea what ends the press really serves.

[...]

[...]If already now we have contrived to possess ourselves of the minds of the goy communities to such an extent that they all come near looking upon the events of the world through the colored glasses of those spectacles we are setting astride their noses:[...]
One overall facet that really scares me -- because it insinuates itself at an almost unconscious level -- is that REPTILES aren't really so bad; that if a person sets aside their normal intuitions of danger and gets to know them, REPTILES can actually be fun to pal around with; and that, after all, it wasn't a REPTILE that killed Irwin, but actually a surprise attack by what appeared to be an innocent and harmless looking sting ray...(just like those innocent-looking but really dangerous "terrorists" on the Tube in London....) "REPTILES, in short, are NOT the enemy" is the overall message of Steve Irwin's death.

(One thing reading C of Z and P of Z has done is to make me very, very wary of ANYTHING a REPTILE says or does. They're working according to a very long term plan.)

The first video is 2:46 minutes long from AOL (with my apologies for the commercial that you have sit through to see the video), but the ABC report it contains attempts a "scientific" take on the crocodile hunter that I found interesting):

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index...ins-death-caught-on-tape/20060905065409990001


Prof. Frank Farley said:
"[...]they're sort of natural born rule breakers[...] they're always pushing the envelope and trying new things, actually quite creative[...]"
Listening to him, I couldn't shake the impression I was hearing something similar to the justification for Indigo children.

announcer said:
"why would someone like Irwin always court danger? Researchers' think they're beginning to understand." [...] several factors that fuel risk takers [...] genetics, chemicals in the brain [...] dopamine, thrill seekers crave it[...]
I don't know much about neuro-chemistry to assess the validity of what they're saying. Help here, anyone?

At the 2:02 minute mark, an interviewer asks Irwin:

"[...]Is there nothing in all these months now to make you say 'I won't do that again' ?"

Irwin, animatedly: "No, I wouldn't say that."
Watching his face, and remembering the images scattered throughout this and the following video of him jumping onto animals, wrestling animals, grabbing animals, I got the impression he was an energetic, likeable, "charming" PSYCHOPATH, who is being used by the PTB.

A second video, 9:59 minutes, gives a reason for the growing media swell:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2924787400833734135&hl=en 9:59 video


[...]Some are calling for a State Funeral [...]
[...]most widely recognized Aussie in the entire world [...]
and there are images of numerous families with tearful shocked children placing flowers around Irwin's Australian zoo.

(It's casually mentioned that Irwin has a "multi-million dollar empire....")


If there's a way, the PTB will try and turn this into something resembling the Princess Diana grief -- an international grief sharing incident, overblown horribly, to help us ignore what is really going on in the world.

Laura's quote of Lobaczewski here is quite appropriate:

Lobaczewski said:
[...]Once safely dead, the soldiers will then be decreed heroes to be revered in paeans, useful for raising a new generation faithful to the pathocracy and ever willing to go to their deaths to protect it.
And who always remember to be kind to the REPTILES....Pardon me while I cry some crocodile tears....

:(
 
a.saccus, what do you think of a interpretation that would follow the lines of an Irwin dominating reptiles?
 
a.saccus said:
One overall facet that really scares me -- because it insinuates itself at an almost unconscious level -- is that REPTILES aren't really so bad
But they're not, no animal is "bad" it just does what it does, it's an animal. It could've been a dog, a shark, a crocodile, a snake, a bear, etc. I see what you're saying, and I do see how Irwin's years of toying with reptiles on camera can create the impression in someone's mind that they're really not so scary and are even funny and almost harmless or something along those lines. I think it's a false impression, but so is the impression that they are "bad" or "scary", osit. They are a predator, they will do what a predator will do, and they can be handled and petted and whatever else you wanna do with them if you understand this and know how to handle such a predator and what it will and will not do and why etc. So fear based on ignorance is just as bad as naive trust based on ignorance, imho. But whether this whole "crocodile hunter" thing and the entire Irwin saga has been a subconscious manipulation to prepare humanity to more readily accept the Lizzies, I can definitely see how it could be.

and that, after all, it wasn't a REPTILE that killed Irwin, but actually a surprise attack by what appeared to be an innocent and harmless looking sting ray...(just like those innocent-looking but really dangerous "terrorists" on the Tube in London....) "REPTILES, in short, are NOT the enemy" is the overall message of Steve Irwin's death.
Well, if the message is that the enemy can be "anybody, anywhere, at any time" - all the more reason not to trust the government eh? How come terrorists cannot infiltrate a government or influence governments? I agree with Bush, anybody could be a potential terrorist. But let's start with him and his friends and move down from there shall we? I mean logically speaking, the more evil/corrupt the more attracted to positions of power and control, right? So it's only logical to look for terrorists in offices of power and influence - start at the top!

Watching his face, and remembering the images scattered throughout this and the following video of him jumping onto animals, wrestling animals, grabbing animals, I got the impression he was an energetic, likeable, "charming" PSYCHOPATH, who is being used by the PTB.
It's interesting to read people say this, because earlier I said I perceived him to be loving, caring person, etc. But now that I think about it, that perception hasn't been formed AFTER I started doing the Work and trying to SEE objectively, but instead it was formed over the entire time I've been seeing him on TV, it was just an "impression" I perhaps was GIVEN. Maybe I was fooled by his happy-go-lucky seemingly innocently excited attitude about just about everything he says or does. Oh he's just "being playful", he "loves animals" etc. So honestly now I just don't know what to make of him. I know Laura says, and I agree, there are better things to spend our energy on at this time, but I am honestly interested now that maybe my impression of him was an illusion? I don't want to jump to any conclusions though. I am definitely biased due to my long-induced attachment to him in general and the way he was portrayed on TV over many years. Now I'll have to take a closer look and work through that program and hopefully SEE Steve as he really is. He doesn't have to be a psychopath per se, as Laura said, he may have many other "problems" that contribute to his behavior/actions.

(It's casually mentioned that Irwin has a "multi-million dollar empire....")
That's another thing too, in his show and videos and based on how he always dresses he actually appears "poor", just an every-day joe out to wrestle a few alligators or something. I almost forgot, he's a multi-millionaire, but that's not what the image he portrays reveals. Is this designed that way to maintain this impression? Or is the image just an innocent "well I gotta wear something" type of deal?

And who always remember to be kind to the REPTILES....Pardon me while I cry some crocodile tears....
Ok but don't confuse 2d and 4d! Our 2d reptiles bear no responsibility for the actions of their hyperdimentional cousins. If there was a race of 4d dogs that wanted to control us, it doesn't mean we should suddenly be unkind to our pet pooch.
 
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