CT Elementary School Shooting

[Breton]

[SNIP]
I took 2 snapshots, one for the magazine at the early beginning when it is still on the gun and the other one showing some details of the stock : 2 rectangular holes near the buttplate.

To me the Saiga shotgun with an ATI stock seems to fit quite well
[SNIP]

Yup, you captured kind of what "I saw" when looking at the video.
It is quite possible a Saiga or very similar kind of military shotgun with box magazine, IMO.

 

[Joe]

I took 2 snapshots, one for the magazine at the early beginning when it is still on the gun and the other one showing some details of the stock : 2 rectangular holes near the buttplate.

To me the Saiga shotgun with an ATI stock seems to fit quite well :

Looks like you nailed it!

 

[Guardian]

I took 2 snapshots, one for the magazine at the early beginning when it is still on the gun and the other one showing some details of the stock : 2 rectangular holes near the buttplate.

To me the Saiga shotgun with an ATI stock seems to fit quite well :

Looks like you nailed it!

I don't think so, the cutout in the ATI stock is MUCH larger than the cutout in the stock of the weapon in the trunk, and it also appears to be thicker, and looks like wood not composite. It's definitely a dragunov type stock, but one of the older versions like what you'd see on an SKS, M1Garand, BWK, etc.

 

[Guardian]

BTW, identifying the stock does NOT identify the weapon since aftermarket dragunov and skeleton stocks are available for just about every popular rifle.

 

[Niall]

This video is supposed to show "a rifle/shotgun found in the trunk of the car Adam Lanza drove to the school after he shot his mother four times in the face."

But can we really believe that they waited all day long until after dark to bother checking the trunk of the black Honda Civic? And a TV crew in a helicopter just happened to film it?

I mean, attached is a photo of the car, isolated and cordoned off, with the rear right door open and State police milling around, right outside the front entrance of the school at 10am or so.

By then they had ascertained that a .233 Bushmaster rifle was "found in the trunk."

So... what happened? Did they just not see the other one?

 

[Breton]

This video is supposed to show "a rifle/shotgun found in the trunk of the car Adam Lanza drove to the school after he shot his mother four times in the face."

But can we really believe that they waited all day long until after dark to bother checking the trunk of the black Honda Civic? And a TV crew in a helicopter just happened to film it?

I mean, attached is a photo of the car, isolated and cordoned off, with the rear right door open and State police milling around, right outside the front entrance of the school at 10am or so.

By then they had ascertained that a .233 Bushmaster rifle was "found in the trunk."

So... what happened? Did they just not see the other one?

I know what you mean: the whole time I was inspecting the video of discovering the long gun in the car, I wondered why it was dark when they finally did that. What had they done with the car during the daylight hours since the shooting occurred around 9:30 AM? Nothing is straightforward about this whole situation.

 

[Niall]

I suspect that this evening 'discovery' of a long gun was staged, although I don't understand how doing so helps their case because it means that Adam Lanza can only have used two pistols to leave a "mind-numbing quantity of spent .233 caliber shells on the school floor"... surely they needed to make up something about assault rifles being found on or near him?

 

[Joe]

I suspect that this evening 'discovery' of a long gun was staged, although I don't understand how doing so helps their case because it means that Adam Lanza can only have used two pistols to leave a "mind-numbing quantity of spent .233 caliber shells on the school floor"... surely they needed to make up something about assault rifles being found on or near him?

They did state that he was found with two pistols and an assault-type rifle near him. So this rifle in the trunk was one more.

 

[seek10]

video from peter Lanza. Nothing useful in debugging what happened. _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPHpTIyAzE

 

[Guardian]

video from peter Lanza. Nothing useful in debugging what happened. _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPHpTIyAzE

That's not Lanza

 

[seek10]

video from peter Lanza. Nothing useful in debugging what happened. _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPHpTIyAzE

That's not Lanza

Hmm.. :( Thank you for pointing.

 

[aragorn]

I wonder what 'they' are up to with this:

_http://abcnews.go.com/US/dna-newtown-shooter-adam-lanza-studied-geneticists/story?id=18069343#.UNywcaVZfnL

DNA of Newtown Shooter Adam Lanza to Be Studied by Geneticists

Dece. 27, 2012

Geneticists have been asked to study the DNA of Adam Lanza, the Connecticut man whose shooting rampage killed 27 people, including an entire first grade class.

The study, which experts believe may be the first of its kind, is expected to be looking for abnormalities or mutations in Lanza's DNA.

Connecticut Medical Examiner H. Wayne Carver has reached out to University of Connecticut's geneticists to conduct the study.

University of Connecticut spokesperson Tom Green says Carver "has asked for help from our department of genetics" and they are "willing to give any assistance they can."

Green said he could not provide details on the project, but said it has not begun and they are "standing by waiting to assist in any way we can."

Lanza, 20, carried out the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., just days before Christmas. His motives for the slaughter remain a mystery.

Geneticists not directly involved in the study said they are likely looking at Lanza's DNA to detect a mutation or abnormality that could increase the risk of aggressive or violent behavior. They could analyze Lanza's entire genome in great detail and try to find unexpected mutations.

This seems to be the first time a study of this nature has been conducted, but it raises concerns in some geneticists and others in the field that there could be a stigma attached to people with these genetic characteristics if they are able to be narrowed down.

Arthur Beaudet, a professor at Baylor College of Medicine, said the University of Connecticut geneticists are most likely trying to "detect clear abnormalities of what we would call a mutation in a gene…or gene abnormalities and there are some abnormalities that are related to aggressive behavior."

"They might look for mutations that might be associated with mental illnesses and ones that might also increase the risk for violence," said Beaudet, who is also the chairman of Baylor College of Medicine's department of molecular and human genetics.

Beaudet believes geneticists should be doing this type of research because there are "some mutations that are known to be associated with at least aggressive behavior if not violent behavior."

"I don't think any one of these mutations would explain all of (the mass shooters), but some of them would have mutations that might be causing both schizophrenia and related schizophrenia violent behavior," Beaudet said. "I think we could learn more about it and we should learn more about it."

Beaudet noted that studying the genes of murderers is controversial because there is a risk that those with similar genetic characteristics could possibly be discriminated against or stigmatized, but he still thinks the research would be helpful even if only a "fraction" may have the abnormality or mutation.

"Not all of these people will have identifiable genetic abnormalities," Beaudet said, adding that even if a genetic abnormality is found it may not be related to a "specific risk."

"By studying genetic abnormalities we can learn more about conditions better and who is at risk and what might be dramatic treatments," Beaudet said, adding if the gene abnormality is defined the "treatment to stop" other mass shootings or "decrease the risk is much approved."

Others in the field aren't so sure.

Dr. Harold Bursztajn, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, is a leader in his field on this issue writing extensively on genetic discrimination. He questions what the University of Connecticut researchers could "even be looking for at this point."

"Given how wide the net would have to be cast and given the problem of false positives in testing it is much more likely we would go ahead and find some misleading genetic markers, which would later be proven false while unnecessarily stigmatizing a very large group of people," Bursztajn said.

Bursztajn also cautions there are other risks to this kind of study: that other warning signs could be ignored.

"It's too risky from the stand point of unduly stigmatizing people, but also from distracting us from real red flags to prevent violence from occurring," Bursztajn said. "The last thing we need when people are in the midst of grief is offering people quick fixes which may help our anxiety, but can be counterproductive to our long term safety and ethics."

Bursztajn is also the president of the American Unit of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Bioethics Chair and in that role he teaches health care professionals about responsible genetic education including the history of eugenics in this country in the 1920s and Nazi Germany. He cautions against the slippery slope that the kind of research that could be involved in the University of Connecticut's study could lead to.

Dr. Heidi Tissenbaum, a geneticist at the University of Massachusetts medical school, agrees the research is risky saying an accurate study just cannot be completed on one person.

"The problem is there might be a genetic component, but we don't have enough of a sample size," Tissenbaum said. "I think it's much more than a simple genetic answer, but an interplay between genetics and environment."

"One sample, what's that going to tell you," Tissenbaum said, referring to Lanza's DNA. "You never do an experiment with one, you can't conclude anything… The question is what are they comparing his DNA against? Are they going to control to random people? Matching for age or society? We just don't have enough (of a sample)."

Tissenbaum says the rush to study his DNA may simply be because "people are hurting so much they would like to find a quick answer."

"Even identical twins are different and they have identical DNA," Tissenbaum noted.

ABC News' Dr. Amish Patel contributed to this story.

 

[Breton]

Aragorn: What you posted looks a lot like another example of the authorities appearing to do something, while not really doing anything meaningful. I suppose it is an attempt to distract everyone from the inconsistencies of the whole shooting story they have concocted.

 

[Niall]

The perpetrators would have relied on a detailed psychological profile of Adam Lanza to maneuver him into position, so this stunt is just to reassure people that they're at all bothered about trying to uncover a suitable motive for the loner-suddenly-goes-postal BS. I strongly suspect they know full well that there isn't a 'motive' to uncover because Lanza was very probably firmly under their control.

 

[grini]

I have found this article that is related to this so I thought it would be good to post it here:

_http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57560936-504083/free-gun-training-program-offered-to-200-utah-teachers/

Free gun training program offered to 200 Utah teachers

(CBS/AP) SALT LAKE CITY - Gun rights advocates plan to offer gun training for 200 Utah teachers Thursday, saying that classroom teachers could stop school shootings by carrying concealed weapons.

The Utah Shooting Sports Council said it would waive its $50 fee for concealed-weapons training for the teachers. Instruction featuring plastic guns is set to begin at noon Thursday inside a conference room at Maverick Center, a hockey arena in the Salt Lake City suburb of West Valley.

It's an idea gaining traction in the aftermath of the Connecticut school shooting. In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Association said it was launching a test program in tactical firearms training for 24 teachers initially.

Educators say Utah legislators left them with no choice but to accept some guns in schools. State law forbids schools, districts or college campuses from trying to impose their own gun restrictions. Utah is among few states that let people carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools without exception, the National Conference of State Legislatures said in a 2012 compendium of state gun laws.

"Schools are some of the safest places in the world, but I think teachers understand that something has changed -- the sanctity of schools has changed," said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state's leading gun lobby. "Mass shootings may still be rare, but that doesn't help you when the monster comes in."

Gun-rights advocates say teachers can act more quickly than law enforcement in the critical first few minutes to protect children from the kind of shooting that left 20 children and six adults dead Dec. 14 at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. In Arizona, Attorney General Tom Horne has proposed amending state law to allow one educator in each school to carry a gun.

"We're not suggesting that teachers roam the halls" for an armed intruder, Aposhian said. "They should lock down the classroom. But a gun is one more option if the shooter" breaks into a classroom.

He said a major emphasis of the safety training is that people facing deadly threats should announce they have a gun and retreat or take cover before trying to shoot.

Utah educators say they would ban guns if they could and have no way of knowing how many teachers are armed. Gun-rights advocates estimate that 1 percent of Utah teachers or 240 are licensed to carry concealed weapons. It's not known how many pack guns at school.

"It's a terrible idea," said Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education, who argues teachers could be overpowered for their guns or misfire or cause an accidental shooting. "It's a horrible, terrible, no-good, rotten idea."