Darwin's Black Box - Michael J. Behe and Intelligent Design

[luc]

I saw somebody on Twitter the other day castigate all of the climate skeptics - he said if you used a computer, a microwave oven, a phone, a car, electrivity, air conditioning - they were all designed by the same people who tell us global warming is real. How can you use those things and at the same time reject what they are telling you about climate? There are so many thing s wrong with that tirade I almost don't know where to start.

It's an interesting observation. I'm currently looking into the whole Enlightenment thing because I suspect that a lot of what's wrong with today's world can be traced right back to that (which would make "enlightenment" the mother of all Orwellian re-definitions of words!).

Now, one interesting thing is that during the enlightenment, they didn't have the "look at what wonders science has brought us" argument, because there wasn't any technological progress to speak of. The era of "scientific miracles" began with the invention/discovery of a) the petrol engine and b) electricity. Curious!

I recently finished David Stove's "What's Wrong with Benevolence" and I'm waiting for his "On Enlightenment" to find out some more. But a picture starts emerging of a plan to bring us where we are now. I'll probably post more once I have read more and thought more, but it looks something like this to me:

1. Lay the foundation during the Enlightenment by attacking religion, eliminating all classical virtues except "benevolence", bringing in faux-values such as "egality" - in other words: completely screw up people's value systems.

2. This then leads to all kinds of pathological ideas, including socialism/communism.

3. Once the foundation stands, bring in electricity/the petrol engine and all that follows, which makes enlightenment arguments irresistible to this day ("look at what science brought us, therefore materialism/enlightenment/no God/high priests of science!")

4. Also, socialist systems are completely unsustainable and destructive. UNLESS you pump in huge amount of external energy to keep the illusion going. This energy suddenly was available thanks to the petrol engine, electricity and the growth this provided (not to mention imperialism and plunder).

5. End result: we live in a nihilistic, valueless, materialistic nightmare of a society, AND we are hopelessly addicted to the welfare state (we lost self-sufficiency etc.) AND it's just all-round spiritual death.

The more I look into these things (there's so much more), the more I wonder "what are the odds"? It all just played out so "nicely", as if it was designed that way!

Don't know if I'm onto something here, so FWIW.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It's an interesting observation. I'm currently looking into the whole Enlightenment thing because I suspect that a lot of what's wrong with today's world can be traced right back to that (which would make "enlightenment" the mother of all Orwellian re-definitions of words!).

Now, one interesting thing is that during the enlightenment, they didn't have the "look at what wonders science has brought us" argument, because there wasn't any technological progress to speak of. The era of "scientific miracles" began with the invention/discovery of a) the petrol engine and b) electricity. Curious!

I recently finished David Stove's "What's Wrong with Benevolence" and I'm waiting for his "On Enlightenment" to find out some more. But a picture starts emerging of a plan to bring us where we are now. I'll probably post more once I have read more and thought more, but it looks something like this to me:

1. Lay the foundation during the Enlightenment by attacking religion, eliminating all classical virtues except "benevolence", bringing in faux-values such as "egality" - in other words: completely screw up people's value systems.

2. This then leads to all kinds of pathological ideas, including socialism/communism.

3. Once the foundation stands, bring in electricity/the petrol engine and all that follows, which makes enlightenment arguments irresistible to this day ("look at what science brought us, therefore materialism/enlightenment/no God/high priests of science!")

4. Also, socialist systems are completely unsustainable and destructive. UNLESS you pump in huge amount of external energy to keep the illusion going. This energy suddenly was available thanks to the petrol engine, electricity and the growth this provided (not to mention imperialism and plunder).

5. End result: we live in a nihilistic, valueless, materialistic nightmare of a society, AND we are hopelessly addicted to the welfare state (we lost self-sufficiency etc.) AND it's just all-round spiritual death.

The more I look into these things (there's so much more), the more I wonder "what are the odds"? It all just played out so "nicely", as if it was designed that way!

Don't know if I'm onto something here, so FWIW.

I think you're onto something. I'd just add that I think each of these developments was essentially neutral: they could have gone in either direction. But like you say, the odds seem weighted. Whenever humanity achieves something, it seems to go in a negative direction. That doesn't mean the direction was inherent in the achievement. It seems to me that the influence of 4D STS is to unnaturally "weight the possibilities" through the influence of humanity's aims and impulses. Whether key individuals or public opinion, things go wrong. For example, the turn against religion could have been positive, if the positive aspects were retained instead of rejecting it wholesale. Electricity could have been good (it has been in many ways!), but it also reinforced the negative beliefs of the Enlightenment and gave us reality TV shows.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

And what would prompt the DNA changes? We know it can't be a mechanical process. That can only degrade, devolve, damage, and randomize. So physical aspect of DNA needs to be informed by something that re-organizes it intelligently, which causes the physical brain to sort of follow suit. Like the C's mentioned that the soul marries to DNA, so if the soul evolves, DNA follows suit.

This is similar to my thoughts on the matter. I can see how 4D STS can mess with DNA and even create entire life forms for their purposes (e.g. Greys). But how would 4D STO operate, if they respect free will? There must be a 'handshake' of some sort between the species/individual in question, and higher intelligences. I'd guess that the lower being itself has to do some of the work too. Rather than think of it as some external, higher being intervening in the life process like a mini God (omnipotent and coercive in nature), it seems to me that a being approaches a certain level of learning, at which point it is ready for advancement. Perhaps it is even its higher self that directs the process when the time comes for a transformation. The mind/soul of the being 'grasps' the form of its new creation, and incorporates it into its physical being, with the help of a higher intelligence.

This could be analogous to every other process of creativity, like solving a math equation, getting inspiration for a piece of music, or grokking some concept that was previously un-grokked. Basically, the being in question must be ready for the next transformation. Only when it is ready, and when it has a connection with the image of the next step, so to speak, can that new form be brought into physical manifestation. The 'signal' is always being sent, but it's only when the receptors are ready that it can be received, at which point the self-determination of the creature has a consciousness-handshake with the higher intelligence, which provides the new form, which acts as an attractor, attracting the physical form into its new form.

So the whole process would be mechanical/natural only in the sense that there are rules to the way things work. New forms don't come before their time. When their time comes, a barrier 'blasts open', and higher forces work in unison with the lower mind to re-create the being on that level.

I bolded the bits in your post I think are compatible with this way of looking at it:

I know the C's have often said the Wave and its interaction with individuals depends on their consciousness level, but I always still kinda pictured it as some kind of mechanical process, like a chemical reaction that results in a new element if you prepare the right chemicals ahead of time. But maybe it is some sort of catalyst, maybe it's something that simply blasts open a barrier (realm border quantum wave collapse) that enables the soul to tweak the physical body/dna much more quickly and profoundly, sort of like giving it a really enhanced chisel for a minute, and it's really up to the soul/consciousness if it can and will do something with it when the opportunity presents itself.

So the consciousness of the squirrel needs to already have its eyes open before it can open the physical brain's eyes, and even then, it may need to wait for the right opportunity environmentally. I always wondered why we need the Wave to "evolve", why it wouldn't happen individually and at any "time" the individual is ready. It seems like there were a few exceptions that may have done just that, according to the C's. But generally - it seems like evolution happens in spurts - like a few hundred thousand years ago all of a sudden humans show up, and according to that recent article, possibly most of the species of plants and animals in general.

I do think that all this reading about intelligent design and "evolution", will lead to a better understanding of the Wave, which seems instrumental - at least when it comes to the major periodic spurts. It's just another one of those things that the C's said from the start, and it starts to make more sense only years and years down the road, and is probably more fascinating and relevant now than ever before.

It's also possible that species collectively become ready for the next stage in their evolution (at least, certain species - not all necessarily make the cut for advancement). And maybe there are cosmic conditions that make higher/lower interactions of this sort easier to occur.

 

[Cousteau]

This could be analogous to every other process of creativity, like solving a math equation, getting inspiration for a piece of music, or grokking some concept that was previously un-grokked. Basically, the being in question must be ready for the next transformation. Only when it is ready, and when it has a connection with the image of the next step, so to speak, can that new form be brought into physical manifestation. The 'signal' is always being sent, but it's only when the receptors are ready that it can be received, at which point the self-determination of the creature has a consciousness-handshake with the higher intelligence, which provides the new form, which acts as an attractor, attracting the physical form into its new form.

So the whole process would be mechanical/natural only in the sense that there are rules to the way things work. New forms don't come before their time. When their time comes, a barrier 'blasts open', and higher forces work in unison with the lower mind to re-create the being on that level.

I bolded the bits in your post I think are compatible with this way of looking at it:



It's also possible that species collectively become ready for the next stage in their evolution (at least, certain species - not all necessarily make the cut for advancement). And maybe there are cosmic conditions that make higher/lower interactions of this sort easier to occur.

The signal is from you own soul.

Go from contemplation zone into 3D. Excelarate learning, right?

Yeah, Souls here now are looking to expand. Restrictions to push against (laugable, but harsh), find limits and learn.

You are not 'grokking' at all.

Not yet.

 

[goyacobol]

The signal is from you own soul.

Go from contemplation zone into 3D. Excelarate learning, right?

Yeah, Souls here now are looking to expand. Restrictions to push against (laugable, but harsh), find limits and learn.

You are not 'grokking' at all.

Not yet.

Well, I am sure Approaching Infinity has put much more effort and energy into his observations than you seem to be doing.

Your world seems to consist mostly of "you [your] own soul". Without any explication you expect everyone to just agree with the concept that new information solely comes from ones own soul it would seem.

If we are so ignorant maybe you can help us "grok" (Great Teacher?).

 

[Cousteau]

Well, I am sure Approaching Infinity has put much more effort and energy into his observations than you seem to be doing.

I'll agree that Approaching Infinity has written down his earned observations a lot more than I have. Doesn't mean anything, only that he's documenting his travels on a narrow path.

If we are so ignorant maybe you can help us "grok" (Great Teacher?).

Sure: look up Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

[Pierre]

Well, I am sure Approaching Infinity has put much more effort and energy into his observations than you seem to be doing.

I'll agree that Approaching Infinity has written down his earned observations a lot more than I have. Doesn't mean anything, only that he's documenting his travels on a narrow path.

If we are so ignorant maybe you can help us "grok" (Great Teacher?).

Sure: look up Stranger in a Strange Land.

Cousteau,

Please avoid cryptic and/or patronizing one-liners.

 

[genero81]

Your world seems to consist mostly of "you [your] own soul". Without any explication you expect everyone to just agree with the concept that new information solely comes from ones own soul it would seem.

Yes, okay, so let's say the 'soul' is the consciousness/ awareness unit involved in the 'short wave cycle' for the purpose of 'accelerated learning.' This involves embodiment at third density followed by contemplation at fifth, rotating back and forth until 'graduation' to fourth level where the same rotation to fifth level occurs as well. But we theorize time doesn't exist in linear form. We have a self (possibly) in the 'future' at sixth density. A 'higher self' (at sixth level) interacting with the 'soul' at certain 'times' when the soul asks and is ready for the help. In this scenario the soul is not the sole (soul) source of information and development. There could also be input from ancestors and soul group.

 

[goyacobol]

Sure: look up Stranger in a Strange Land.

More stellar effort on your part I see. Why don't you read this entire thread if you have not. If seems it would be better if you to at least give some quotes or examples of the book you suggest rather than just tell us to go read a book. It just seems a bit lazy to me that you want to throw out comments without any more effort than you are displaying. Why don't you check out "external consideration"? Of course you may have do a search to find it but that seems fair to me.

 

[Gmork]

Only when it is ready, and when it has a connection with the image of the next step, so to speak, can that new form be brought into physical manifestation. The 'signal' is always being sent, but it's only when the receptors are ready that it can be received, at which point the self-determination of the creature has a consciousness-handshake with the higher intelligence, which provides the new form, which acts as an attractor, attracting the physical form into its new form

When i am reading this in my mind come an alternative representation : If you subtracts time because it dosnt really exist in creation (because everything exist only now) the "Ready idea" can be represented by magnetic, gravitational force akin to STS energy/force that idea is and creation simply connect at this spot with it after that it radiates outward and from that "spot" like STO/sun etc.
It wont radiate before gaining enough energy, someone need to intellectually focus knowledge and his energies to critical point where the idea will start to propagate in the universe. Sort of like explosive material need starting energy or atomic bomb.

New forms don't come before their time

They don't appear until energy effort,consciousness don't discover it. It will exist as a potential. It wont have "paths" into manifesting in densities for us.

I hope this make some sens. It is just a idea i had.

 

[goyacobol]

They don't appear until energy effort,consciousness don't discover it. It will exist as a potential. It wont have "paths" into manifesting in densities for us.

I hope this make some sens. It is just a idea i had.

Gmork,

I think that does make some sense. I think it is about energy and awareness. I think maybe"Time" as we perceive it is an illusion but in the macro scheme of things there are events which continue to happen as the Prime Creator expands "through" us depending on our consciousness that can discover new possibilities and potentials.

Here is a session where the Cs comment on what "time" really is:

Session 4 April 2015

(L) I think they said that after the Wave there would be a 1000 year period as 3D transition into 4D.

A: Yes

Q: (L) So in other words, in a sense that is kind of like a 1000 year process of the Wave. The creation of a totally new reality obviously, in cosmic terms, takes that strange process that doesn't exist called time to manifest. But obviously, they are now talking about the breaking down process, the chaos.

A: Yes. Now you begin to see what "time" really is: cosmic processes of almost infinite duration. But do not be complacent because some of these processes can be rather "quick" and devastating from your perspective.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

When i am reading this in my mind come an alternative representation : If you subtracts time because it dosnt really exist in creation (because everything exist only now)...

I don't like subtracting time, because if we don't know precisely what it is, how can we subtract it? ;)

... the "Ready idea" can be represented by magnetic, gravitational force akin to STS energy/force that idea is and creation simply connect at this spot with it after that it radiates outward and from that "spot" like STO/sun etc.
It wont radiate before gaining enough energy, someone need to intellectually focus knowledge and his energies to critical point where the idea will start to propagate in the universe. Sort of like explosive material need starting energy or atomic bomb.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you wrote above, but is it basically something like this? "Ready ideas" eternally exist in potential. But they don't start to 'radiate' towards beings in time until they have enough 'energy'. To get that energy, they need the focus and attention from consciousnesses. Basically, the are held in potential until they are 'activated' by the need of the individuals who are focusing on them? If so, I think that makes sense, and it kind of applies to everything: in any given situation there are tons of possibilities. But some of those possibilities are not live options. For example, when you're playing chess, certain moves are possible, like castling. But if you don't KNOW those things are possible, they are not live options for you. First you need to learn about them in order to know that they are possible. This can scale to all kinds of situations: we don't do certain things until we know they're possible. That can apply to relationships, creativity of all sorts, evolution, etc.

 

[Joe]

The signal is from you own soul.

Go from contemplation zone into 3D. Excelarate learning, right?

Yeah, Souls here now are looking to expand. Restrictions to push against (laugable, but harsh), find limits and learn.

You are not 'grokking' at all.

Not yet.

Just so you know, nobody has any idea what you are talking about. And also note, the problem is not because of some limits to understanding on the part of others, but because of the apparent limits on your ability to form complete sentences in English.

 

[Gmork]

goyacobol
From the perspective of 7th density there there is no time for sure and if part of creation experience change (lets say explosive idea) the change manifest from point to point, it was experienced instantly because there is all in 7th density. There were many changes but all was instant in this perspective.
Now if we consider explosion in one dimension going from dot to dot like ten dots end change happen from one dot to another we can CHANGE perspective and consider that last one dot experienced waiting and change didn't happen instantly (and we have an idea of time here and we didn't need it in 7th density).
It seams to me that dot have changed but only if dot could perceive change so it should have consciousness and since it is not 7th density its only a part of 7th whole consciousness and each dot have a part of infinite number of parts of consciousness.

This example is not really good but it shows why you might say time don't exist.

 

[Gmork]

To clarify: If we want to talk about change in 3rd density terms we need to create time/change idea because we want to point part of creation.