My point there was that even though they claim to not believe in any god "physicality"/materialism becomes their god. "Stupid" is kind of subjective I think. I could not definitively say "They do".
Darwin's Black Box - Michael J. Behe and Intelligent Design
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
My point there was that even though they claim to not believe in any god "physicality"/materialism becomes their god. "Stupid" is kind of subjective I think. I could not definitively say "They do".
Yes, that's what they believe in. That's why I said "They do".
I am glad you are so certain of that.
mkrnr is actually saying the same thing you are, goyacobol. Did you miss that? Slow down, breathe!
This is precisely what mkrnr is saying. When someone says that they 'don't believe in anything' yet are also atheists, that is a contradiction (and stupid) since they, by definition, believe in a material world.
Thanks, I wasn't sure. Just did some breathing at the international FOTCM meeting. Slow and steady wins the race they say.
Sorry, mkrmhr. That really is the logical conclusion from our perspective.
This discussion brings to mind the movie Avatar where Jake Sully goes out into the wilderness for the first time and there are all these unfamiliar creatures, plants and people. It's wild to think that perhaps an old creation could just be wiped out and a brand new one put in place that is intelligently designed.
Eulenspiegel
Jedi Master
I think anything can be misused as a political tool. Societies that largely believe in reincarnation have been criticized to misuse that concept to not bother changing matters of social injustice, or using the idea of life after death to make people work towards a better "next life" instead of focusing on changing what they have now.
So it seems to me that no matter what belief is promoted in a society, it can and will be misused by the pathological elite.
Just to add to the discussion about levels of complexity and difficulties with presenting data so that others may benefit, it's interesting how even we are standing on the shoulders of giants too. Behe, Dolan, Laura, etc do the true "trailblazing" in the sense of scouring for data in really difficult and numerous places which are scattered in the winds, and then sum it up for others in books. Then others read the books, and try to truncate even further into articles. Then there are those who won't even read an article, and would ask you to just sum it up in a few words, etc. There's a point where it gets to wanting something for nothing. And if you're willing to sacrifice exactly nothing for a thing, not even a bit of time, do you really want it?
So that's why conveying things in person is so difficult and usually pointless - you're most likely talking to someone who doesn't really want it anyway, to them it's just idle conversation. There are exceptions, you'd just have to read the situation right.
All day at work I listen to people have conversations that parrot the msm talking points on all subjects, and I know none of them care about the truth or want to think for themselves. But they're all very self satisfied with their intelligence, to the point of smugness.
But even then, it's the same to them as talking about the weather. No one comes away from a discussion thinking to themselves "I should research more about this" or anything like that, it's just idle chatter that is forgotten a second later as life goes on.
So yeah I dunno, as Laura said once, some people really are just happy digging ditches. They got their family, house, TV, career, go to the game, and year after year the only thing that changes is that they get older, their kids get older, they've seen another superbowl, and they're perfectly content just riding out this framework til death takes them.
So that's one good thing about the internet I guess - in personal life your odds of running into someone like the people on this forum, who discuss and research and read and discover amazing things with great enthusiasm, is pretty low. I mean there have always been good books if you're driven to find them, but who would you network with! But even then, for me it's really just this forum - the vast majority of the internet is crap, but at least it enabled this forum to exist.
So that's why conveying things in person is so difficult and usually pointless - you're most likely talking to someone who doesn't really want it anyway, to them it's just idle conversation. There are exceptions, you'd just have to read the situation right.
All day at work I listen to people have conversations that parrot the msm talking points on all subjects, and I know none of them care about the truth or want to think for themselves. But they're all very self satisfied with their intelligence, to the point of smugness.
But even then, it's the same to them as talking about the weather. No one comes away from a discussion thinking to themselves "I should research more about this" or anything like that, it's just idle chatter that is forgotten a second later as life goes on.
So yeah I dunno, as Laura said once, some people really are just happy digging ditches. They got their family, house, TV, career, go to the game, and year after year the only thing that changes is that they get older, their kids get older, they've seen another superbowl, and they're perfectly content just riding out this framework til death takes them.
So that's one good thing about the internet I guess - in personal life your odds of running into someone like the people on this forum, who discuss and research and read and discover amazing things with great enthusiasm, is pretty low. I mean there have always been good books if you're driven to find them, but who would you network with! But even then, for me it's really just this forum - the vast majority of the internet is crap, but at least it enabled this forum to exist.
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Mandatory Intellectomy
Jedi Master
Reading Joe's post about materialism, a somewhat different point of view occurred to me regarding what materialism does to people.
Given what we know, about reincarnation, karma, densities, and so on, we have some long-term goals that go beyond one lifetime. We understand there's so much we don't know it's hard to even imagine (I mean, just think of the intelligence and knowledge of those who designed all this life on Earth. We're like bacteria in comparison.), and we want to know more, to learn, to understand, to become better than we are now. We want to create things and help others on their way. We strive towards something beyond this lifetime.
Materialism takes that away. There are no goals beyond this life. So what is left? Whatever you can get in this life. And this is where the massive propaganda, consumerism, and all kinds of manipulation come in. Materialism takes away your focus on something more, and then the machinery of STS manipulation has an unlimited playing field. They tell you what it is you want. Look here, buy this, go over there. They give you an endless stream of distractions so you never really understand anything of substance. You're trapped in their game. And materialism is sort of the foundation for this trap.
Given what we know, about reincarnation, karma, densities, and so on, we have some long-term goals that go beyond one lifetime. We understand there's so much we don't know it's hard to even imagine (I mean, just think of the intelligence and knowledge of those who designed all this life on Earth. We're like bacteria in comparison.), and we want to know more, to learn, to understand, to become better than we are now. We want to create things and help others on their way. We strive towards something beyond this lifetime.
Materialism takes that away. There are no goals beyond this life. So what is left? Whatever you can get in this life. And this is where the massive propaganda, consumerism, and all kinds of manipulation come in. Materialism takes away your focus on something more, and then the machinery of STS manipulation has an unlimited playing field. They tell you what it is you want. Look here, buy this, go over there. They give you an endless stream of distractions so you never really understand anything of substance. You're trapped in their game. And materialism is sort of the foundation for this trap.
Thanks, Joe. It helps to have more input. The logic is unavoidable if I just take it at face value. I get into trouble trying to give "foxhole" atheists a chance to get un-Darwinised. I think of Gurdjeiff's war experience where he survived and his friend was killed. It seems like it was one of Gurdjieff's "awakening" points. But a true atheist won't think twice.
It's still a good book with some valid points IMO. I've started to just mentally erase any references to evolution when I read. In some cases, I'm actually crossing them out with a pen!!!
Yes indeed. Excellent observation. And they wonder why suicides are increasing?
