Daydreaming/Imagination/Memory and relation to environment

At the time, I didn't know anything about MD. It's interesting that we each found a method of basically dismantling the world and putting it on paper to move our personal energies into our waking lives.

You were very lucky to find such a friend and go through the process of dismantling your fantasy. I was not so lucky.

However, here is what Aleta Edwards says about fantasy/daydreaming in Fear of the Abyss :

I am sure that many psychologist share the same view. That is why you cannot find MD in DSM manual. That is why there are no books about it. That is why people with MD complain that their psychologists do not consider their problem to be an illness. And that is why Laura had to recommend the books about criminals to warn us about dangers of fantasies, because she couldn't find such problem explained anywhere else. Until now, when people with MD started speaking about their problems online.

It seems to me that Aleta mixes the imagination and daydreaming. Yes, we do need imagination to "learn from generalized information without going through the exact experience" or for "wondering where we have been and where we wish to go". But the daydreaming is something else.

We don't learn about ourselves through fantasies. It's quite the opposite, we create images of ourselves which are not real. And we cannot "know ourself well enough not to have to go through each experience to learn things". You have to go through experience in the real world to know yourself. You cannot do that in a fantasy because you will not see the real you in your fantasy with "both the good and not-so-good aspects of your traits". Human beings do not operate like that in their heads. We need real life experiences with other people to learn the truth about ourselves and grow. We cannot do that in our heads, "without acting out our real feelings".

I think that Aleta is simply wrong about those things. At least, for those who care about truth and objective reality.
 
You were very lucky to find such a friend and go through the process of dismantling your fantasy. I was not so lucky.



I am sure that many psychologist share the same view. That is why you cannot find MD in DSM manual. That is why there are no books about it. That is why people with MD complain that their psychologists do not consider their problem to be an illness. And that is why Laura had to recommend the books about criminals to warn us about dangers of fantasies, because she couldn't find such problem explained anywhere else. Until now, when people with MD started speaking about their problems online.

It seems to me that Aleta mixes the imagination and daydreaming. Yes, we do need imagination to "learn from generalized information without going through the exact experience" or for "wondering where we have been and where we wish to go". But the daydreaming is something else.

We don't learn about ourselves through fantasies. It's quite the opposite, we create images of ourselves which are not real. And we cannot "know ourself well enough not to have to go through each experience to learn things". You have to go through experience in the real world to know yourself. You cannot do that in a fantasy because you will not see the real you in your fantasy with "both the good and not-so-good aspects of your traits". Human beings do not operate like that in their heads. We need real life experiences with other people to learn the truth about ourselves and grow. We cannot do that in our heads, "without acting out our real feelings".

I think that Aleta is simply wrong about those things. At least, for those who care about truth and objective reality.

Not to say what you said is totally wrong, yes, there are some truth in there, but do you agree that you can learn from the mistakes of others ? Or do your really need to make them to be sure ?
 
Not to say what you said is totally wrong, yes, there are some truth in there, but do you agree that you can learn from the mistakes of others ? Or do your really need to make them to be sure ?

Learning from the mistakes of others is done by imagination, which is a positive trait. But in a fantasy I never imagined that I could make a mistake in anything. In them I was always right. So my fantasies are not useful to me, but they are also not useful for you, because you cannot learn anything from them either. You can only learn from my real life experiences, not from my fantasies.
 
When I catch myself daydreaming, C's warnings helps me to stop that habit.
Kay Kim, this is a GREAT collection of quotes you put together here. I just wanted to highlight that. I think it would be good if everyone kept those quotes handy.

Ill just add these quotes from ISOTM:

'Imagination' is one of the principal sources of the wrong work of centers. Each center has its own form of imagination and daydreaming, but as a rule both the moving and the emotional centers make use of the thinking center which very readily places itself at their disposal for this purpose, because daydreaming corresponds to its own inclinations. Daydreaming is absolutely the opposite of 'useful' mental activity. 'Useful' in this case means activity directed towards a definite aim and undertaken for the sake of obtaining a definite result. Daydreaming does not pursue any aim, does not strive after any result. The motive for daydreaming always lies in the emotional or in the moving center. The actual process is carried on by the thinking center. The inclination to daydream is due partly to the laziness of the thinking center, that is, its attempts to avoid the efforts connected with work directed towards a definite aim and going in a definite direction, and partly to the tendency of the emotional and the moving centers to repeat to themselves, to keep alive or to recreate experiences, both pleasant and unpleasant, that have been previously lived through or 'imagined.' Daydreaming of disagreeable, morbid things is very characteristic of the unbalanced state of the human machine. After all, one can understand daydreaming of a pleasant kind and find logical justification for it. Daydreaming of an unpleasant character is an utter absurdity. And yet many people spend nine tenths of their lives in just such painful daydreams about misfortunes which may overtake them or their family, about illnesses they may contract or sufferings they will have to endure. Imagination and daydreaming are instances of the wrong work of the thinking center.

In order to understand what the difference between states of consciousness is, let us return to the first state of consciousness which is sleep. This is an entirely subjective state of consciousness. A man is immersed in dreams, whether he remembers them or not does not matter. Even if some real impressions reach him, such as sounds, voices, warmth, cold, the sensation of his own body, they arouse in him only fantastic subjective images. Then a man wakes up. At first glance this is a quite different state of consciousness. He can move, he can talk with other people, he can make calculations ahead, he can see danger and avoid it, and so on. It stands to reason that he is in a better position than when he was asleep. But if we go a little more deeply into things, if we take a look into his inner world, into his thoughts, into the causes of his actions, we shall see that he is in almost the same state as when he is asleep. And it is even worse, because in sleep he is passive, that is, he cannot do anything. In the waking state, however, he can do something all the time and the results of all his actions will be reflected upon him or upon those around him. And yet he does not remember himself. He is a machine, everything with him happens. He cannot stop the flow of his thoughts, he cannot control his imagination, his emotions, his attention. He lives in a subjective world of 'I love,' 'I do not love,' 'I like,' 'I do not like,' 'I want,' 'I do not want,' that is, of what he thinks he likes, of what he thinks he does not like, of what he thinks he wants, of what he thinks he does not want. He does not see the real world. The real world is hidden from him by the wall of imagination. He lives in sleep. He is asleep. What is called 'clear consciousness' is sleep and a far more dangerous sleep than sleep at night in bed.

Energy is spent chiefly on unnecessary and unpleasant emotions, on the expectation of unpleasant things, possible and impossible, on bad moods, on unnecessary haste, nervousness, irritability, imagination, daydreaming, and so on. Energy is wasted on the wrong work of centers; on unnecessary tension of the muscles out of all proportion to the work produced; on perpetual chatter which absorbs an enormous amount of energy; on the 'interest' continually taken in things happening around us or to other people and having in fact no interest whatever; on the constant waste of the force of 'attention'; and so on, and so on.
 
Kay Kim, this is a GREAT collection of quotes you put together here. I just wanted to highlight that. I think it would be good if everyone kept those quotes handy.

Yes, the quotes are great. And they show us that the daydreaming has even worse consequences than how Gurdjieff described it. But hopefully, more and more people will become aware of it and fight against it. Here is another link where people share their experiences with MD: r/MaladaptiveDreaming

Many people report the feelings of depression, which could be a withdrawal symptom, a realization of wasted time and opportunities in life, or it could be a psychological symptom of revealing the internal critic, as it is described in the book Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving:

There is another dynamic occurring when critic-work seems to strengthen rather than weaken the critic. As we become less dissociated, we begin to notice critic processes that were there all along under the horizon of our awareness. Our childhood survival was aided by learning to dissociate from these painful critic processes. Consequently, many of us come into recovery barely able to even notice the critic.

Our recovering depends on us using mindfulness to decrease our habits of dissociation. Only then can we see the critic programs that we need to deconstruct, shrink and consciously disidentify from. This typically involves learning to tolerate the pain that comes from discovering how pervasive and strong the critic is. This pain is sometimes a hard pill to swallow because progress in fighting the critic is hard to see at first. And then, even when our shrinking work is effective, progress usually feels disappointingly slow and gradual. This is especially true during a flashback, when the critic can seem to be as strong as ever.

As stated earlier, the critic grew carcinogenically in childhood. It is like a pervasive cancer that requires many uncomfortable operations to remove. Nonetheless, we can choose to face the acute pain of critic-shrinking work because we want to end the chronic pain of having the critic destroy our enjoyment of life. It is the fight of a lifetime.

And of course we have the whole issue of wrong work of centers that Gurdjieff talked out, which no one knows how they operate in a person after years of daydreaming. Mouravieff gave some examples of that with diagrams in his book Gnosis 2.
 
I found another session where the topic of dissociation is brought up:

Session Date: December 13th 2014

(parallel) How can I process or work with the emotions that I feel are underneath, but which sort of get stored under a certain layer in daily life, and so never get processed?

(L) Never get expressed or processed? Because they're not being expressed, or they have never been expressed in any way? How can you deal with the emotions that block you, or something like that?

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

Q: (parallel) Can I ask about these tracks, and how to work with them? Jump out of them? What ways I can...

(Perceval) When they say, "very deep tracks", does that mean anything to you?

(parallel) I just think of habits.

(Perceval) Like what?

(parallel) Maybe disregarding when I get like a signal when I sit alone. I think, "Okay, you should really sit down and have a think about this," and it disappears. It's just dissociation.

(Perceval) Losing a thought or idea...

(L) That's one thing that Martha Stout talks about. When you dissociate, it becomes habitual. That may be what they're talking about...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What they're talking about is the habitual dissociation. Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used.

A: You live your life from inside a bubble.

Q: (Pierre) A bubble that is between you and interacting with reality.

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

(L) You have all this emotion going on...

(Ark) Do you talk to yourself in your mind?

(parallel) It takes over, yes.

(Ark) Does it happen often? When you start talking, I mean...

(parallel) No, it's not conversations. I bring up a point, and then that I guess I need to think about it. It's not very deep especially not these days when I'm working physically a lot.

(L) Is there anything else that you can give parallel right now, or should we come back to this topic at another time?

A: Let him think, work, network, and see later. For now, goodbye.

And here is a very interesting radio show episode about maladaptive daydreaming: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...bilitating-condition-with-no-escape-1.3105713
 
Basically, there are two different kinds of wishful daydreams. One comes from thoughts that arise from drives. These drives are connected with your idealized self-image, your self-glorification, your feelings of inadequacy and your lack of self-confidence. There isn’t a human being who does not, even consciously at times, indulge in fantasies. In them, you see yourself in situations in which you prove to those who have slighted you how superior or great you are. In such daydreams you are admired instead of slighted and you experience satisfaction, revenge and gratified pride. Thus you enjoy living in a way that exactly opposes your deep-rooted feelings of inadequacy and inferiority. You “correct” your undesirable reality with fantasy.

Obviously, there is harm in spending precious energy on such wishful daydreams — energy that could be much more constructively spent on finding the root of your sense of inadequacy and eliminating it. In living through such fantasies, you may experience momentary relief, but it is purely illusory. It is not enough to say that daydreaming is escaping reality. This is true, but let us understand more precisely how that happens. If you resist finding the truth about yourself, that you have made errors and cling to misconceptions, you cannot come to terms with yourself. Nor can you come to terms with others or with life as a whole. At least, you cannot learn to accept the areas that are affected by your problems. So you whisk away these inadequacies by experiencing their opposite in fantasy. It is true that the fantasy does bring relief to a drab life, but the availability of such relief will hamper your efforts at finding the cause and effect of your problems and instituting more constructive patterns.

There is also a benefit to daydreaming, however. Since realistic remedies are not sought, the activity of correcting life in fantasy removes aggression, hostility and destructive impulses. Another benefit is daydreams act as symptoms. How can you ever find a sickness if there are no symptoms? If a physical disease is hidden in an inner organ, without producing any symptoms, you have no opportunity to seek and treat the cause before it is too late. The same mechanism applies to your soul life.

Most people, however, enjoy the symptoms (daydreams) and do not wish to recognize them for what they are; therefore, they do not benefit from them. Simply using some form of discipline to repress your desire to daydream in order to improve your life will not serve any purpose. It will cause greater anxiety, with different outlets and symptoms. It is better to create a little distance from this activity by observing the particular pattern of your daydreams. Make a note of them. Realize their general goal. This will offer you invaluable material about the root of your problems. Instead of repressing daydreams or indulging in them without trying to observe and understand, see them as the useful symptoms they are. You will thus turn a destructive activity into a constructive one, as long as it still seems necessary. Your psyche will give it up to the degree that you learn to love life in reality. Then the daydreams will simply cease by themselves. This cessation has to be a natural, organic process.

The second category of wishful daydreaming is emotional and comes from needs instead of drives. Your repressed, unrecognized needs may create an even stronger force, just because they are repressed. This force then must have an outlet. If healthy need fulfillment is hindered through your pseudosolutions, unrealistic fears and erroneous images, which paralyze your constructive energy and resourcefulness, then an imaginary outlet is necessary. Physical, emotional, mental and spiritual fulfillment is then possible only in fantasy. This is actually a relief and not merely an escape from a drab reality.

When you are unwilling to leave your isolation, your needs cannot be fulfilled. As you know from previous talks on the subject, you either repress awareness of your needs or displace them onto superimposed needs that are not genuine. This displacement creates confusion and knots. It paralyzes your spontaneity, your capacity to feel, to live, and to experience reality. This, in turn, creates many vicious circles, which then make it even more difficult to break out of the destructive pattern. Since your psyche refuses to be cheated of real living, the accumulated pressure will often necessitate some outlet. You may then experience a certain fulfillment in daydreams. Observing and evaluating your daydreams can help you categorize them. It is very likely that you produce fantasy fulfillments for both real and false needs.

The more satisfying your fantasy fulfillment is, the less incentive you will have to resolve your problems so that your fulfillment can become real. In fantasy you live a life of your own behind your walls of isolation and can direct everything as you choose, without interference from others and without meeting obstructions. Thus fantasy seems more desirable than life. But the more you live in these daydreams, the less it will be possible for you to deal with outer obstructions, and the more their power will grow on you. Finally you will come to believe that actual fulfillment is impossible because you cannot direct people and circumstances as you choose. This negative view of fulfillment is, of course, utterly false, since fulfillment is possible in spite of everything not happening exactly when and how you desire it. But fulfillment is possible only if you are flexible and flow with life’s stream. Due to the unconscious conviction that in reality fulfillment is impossible, you can completely withdraw from living and no longer try to attain real satisfaction of your needs. The precarious pseudofulfillment is at least something, and seems so much more than what you are capable of experiencing in reality at this time. Determine whether this holds true for you and to what extent.

The more immature people are, the more “successful” their daydreaming will be and the less they will be capable of and willing to live their lives in the here and now. They want complete control of circumstances, which they can have only in fantasy. This also works in reverse, so that when they try to be flexible and resilient in meeting outer circumstances that do not entirely accord with their preconceived ideas, they will feel less capable of experiencing fulfillment. The discrepancy between daydreams in which they can make others behave, feel, and react as they want, and the reality, which is often different and requires flexibility and patience, is too much for them. Thus they prefer living in a make-believe world of future fulfillment, expecting that today’s fantasy will turn into tomorrow’s reality. Of course, the morrow never comes. The reality never conforms to the fantasy that has been laboriously prepared in daydreaming; this causes frustration. In truth, reality is infinitely more satisfying than the daydreams, but one needs courage and flexibility; one has to give up the need to control everything, throw away the blueprints, and live spontaneously.

Now, what is the benefit of this kind of daydreaming? It presents symptoms from which much insight can be gained; it may spur you to live more fully. Also, it can function as a barometer of inner changes. The different emotional quality of your fantasies and the kind of satisfaction you derive from them may indeed indicate the direction of your growth. Determining this is very beneficial.

Moreover, daydreaming of this kind encourages awareness of repressed needs. You will appreciate by now how important this is. But, my friends, often you are only vaguely aware of your needs, or if you are conscious of them, you do not evaluate them. You allow yourself to feel these needs only in your daydreams. The moment you step into real life, you shut off this awareness and you live as though this other part of you had nothing to do with the rest of your life. Your reaction to real life creates a split that could be mended by increased awareness. The harm of daydreams, then, is in your failure to take advantage of the benefits they could bring to your real life.

A greater awareness of your daydreaming can bring many benefits. My advice to you on this path is that whenever you find yourself engaged in such fantasizing, develop a new approach. Observe, evaluate, weigh and determine — without strain, compulsion or pressure — calmly and quietly. Make daydreams the useful symptom they are meant to be by learning about yourself, your real needs, your drives, your pseudo-fulfillment in fantasies and about their purpose.
 
Instead daydreaming, we can use same mental energy to do Visualize meditation!

November 7, 1994
Q: (L) What is the “philosophers stone?”
A: Idea center.
Q: (L) How can this idea center be accessed?
A: Many ways: meditation is the best.
Q: (L) Is there any visual image of the philosopher’s stone that one could use to access it in meditation?
A: Yes. Diamond or prism.
 
Thank you for sharing that, Curious Beagle, but you should have said that you took it from Pathwork: Wishful Daydreams

In the first reading I really liked the text, but on second reading I see that it is actually a mishmash of things. With some of them I agree, with others not so much. Let my try to go trough some of them:

It is true that the fantasy does bring relief to a drab life, but the availability of such relief will hamper your efforts at finding the cause and effect of your problems and instituting more constructive patterns.

I agree with that.

There is also a benefit to daydreaming, however. Since realistic remedies are not sought, the activity of correcting life in fantasy removes aggression, hostility and destructive impulses.

I don't see that as a benefit at all. It only means that you tamed yourself with daydreaming, just like parents tame their children by letting them watch TV. There is nothing positive in that.

Most people, however, enjoy the symptoms (daydreams) and do not wish to recognize them for what they are; therefore, they do not benefit from them.

It's not just that they do not want to, they cannot recognize them for what they are because they cloud the mind.

Simply using some form of discipline to repress your desire to daydream in order to improve your life will not serve any purpose. It will cause greater anxiety, with different outlets and symptoms. It is better to create a little distance from this activity by observing the particular pattern of your daydreams. Make a note of them. Realize their general goal. This will offer you invaluable material about the root of your problems.

Instead of repressing daydreams or indulging in them without trying to observe and understand, see them as the useful symptoms they are.

The general goal of daydreams is to produce neurochemicals that make people feel good. However, the same process makes people unable to "create a little distance from this activity by observing the particular pattern of daydreams". You can only do that if you try to stop them with discipline.

Your psyche will give it up to the degree that you learn to love life in reality. Then the daydreams will simply cease by themselves. This cessation has to be a natural, organic process.

It paralyzes your spontaneity, your capacity to feel, to live, and to experience reality. This, in turn, creates many vicious circles, which then make it even more difficult to break out of the destructive pattern.

These two lines are a great example of why this text is so wrong. So the daydreams will simply cease by themselves when we learn to love life in reality. But on other hand, they also paralyze our capacity to feel, to live, and to experience reality. So, if we cannot love life in reality, how can we then make a natural, organic process of cessation of daydreams? You don't get out of vicious circle in your mind in a natural way, you do it by FORCE! Or intentional suffering, as some like to call it.

Now, what is the benefit of this kind of daydreaming? It presents symptoms from which much insight can be gained; it may spur you to live more fully. Also, it can function as a barometer of inner changes. The different emotional quality of your fantasies and the kind of satisfaction you derive from them may indeed indicate the direction of your growth. Determining this is very beneficial.

Moreover, daydreaming of this kind encourages awareness of repressed needs.

A greater awareness of your daydreaming can bring many benefits. My advice to you on this path is that whenever you find yourself engaged in such fantasizing, develop a new approach. Observe, evaluate, weigh and determine — without strain, compulsion or pressure — calmly and quietly. Make daydreams the useful symptom they are meant to be by learning about yourself, your real needs, your drives, your pseudo-fulfillment in fantasies and about their purpose.

Problem with daydreaming is that it doesn't encourage any kind of awareness. Not the awareness of outer world, not the awareness on inner world. It's the same as with any other addiction. Yes, it does show symptoms, but the problems is that those symptoms are clearly visible only to the people who look at us from outside. The person who is doing the daydreaming does not have the capacity to be fully aware of her problem. Unless she finds the description of it where she can see herself in a mirror. In any case, you need a mirror of some kind because your brain is used to lies and cannot see the truth by itself.

Maladaptive daydreaming is a form of addiction, and it should be viewed as any other addiction. When you have that in mind, you will realize why you cannot simply use daydreams as the useful tool for learning about yourself.

Lying Is a Symptom of Addiction

When someone is fully engaged in an addiction, she experiences cravings for her drug of choice. The urge to use becomes so powerful that other considerations, such as being truthful, are not a factor. The only thing that matters is satisfying the craving. All of her resources will be put toward meeting this need.

You may have heard of addiction being referred to as a brain disease. Repeated exposure to addictive drugs or alcohol results in changes to the way an addicted person thinks and reasons.

The addictive substances have an impact on the ability to think objectively, make plans, and develop goals
. It’s very difficult for someone to stay focused on school or work when they are numbing themselves with chemicals.

They may lose track of how much they are drinking or using. Some people feel they don’t have a problem as long as they are able to continue to go to work or school each day. The addicted person lies to themselves and those around them, rather than admitting that they have a problem.


Addiction and Lying: A Scientific Study

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, “A person who is addicted might do almost anything––lying stealing, or hurting people––to keep taking the drug.” But why will a person who never did these sorts of things before start doing them as a result of addiction?

In truth, drug addiction actually changes the way the brain works. Though a person starts taking drugs voluntarily at first, over time, the use of addictive substances will affect the makeup of the brain so that drug use becomes involuntary. Cravings for the drug will start to set in when the individual is not using, and these may become so strong that the addict cannot resist them. In addition, many types of drug use change the reward pathways of the brain so the individual can no longer receive positive reinforcement from any actions other than their substance abuse. This causes them to put the drug above all else, whether they want to or not.

 
Well, the first few post here I quote pathwork and lecture number but I stop doing that due to hostility toward outside work especially new age category. The C is actually channelling Pathwork few decade earlier, same language and ideas. not sure the reluctantance to disclose more here except occasional coment like closer, yes, etc. Glad someone already read pathwork, it actually work.

 
Well, the first few post here I quote pathwork and lecture number but I stop doing that due to hostility toward outside work especially new age category. The C is actually channelling Pathwork few decade earlier, same language and ideas. not sure the reluctantance to disclose more here except occasional coment like closer, yes, etc. Glad someone already read pathwork, it actually work.

I don't know what is the stance of the people who run this forum about Pathwork, but if you are going to continue posting that material I would strongly suggest to say where it is from every time you post it. That regards any material that you want to post.

Personally, I found Pathwork several years ago and I did like it, but now I understand why it is important for people who want to channel to also do their own homework, i.e., to also read books and research and experiences of other people. Only then you can fine tune your channeling instrument.

For those who want to know more about maladaptive daydreaming I already posted in this thread several links with great material about it. And they all come from people who actually suffered from it, not from somebody who just channeled about it. So if the new age channeling is in contrast with the ground truth, then of course that there is going to be some hostility towards that work. Which doesn't mean that there are no parts which have more truth in them, but you have to be careful. There are some truths in the lecture that you posted here, but there are also things which do not corespond with what the people are experiencing in their lives.
 
Not good, just trying to explain few basic concept like knowledge, truth, etc. I got pounded 2 yrs ago for defending someone else apologizing for saying love is useful. I'm not actually getting benefit out of it as matter of fact I have to spend time to help explain. Well if a lot of people read it maybe you guys should help each other if C said something unclear. I usually try not to make argument with others, most of the time just answering questions or strong desire on previous post.
 
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I usually try not to make argument with others, most of the time just answering questions or strong desire on previous post.

That sounds exactly what daydreamers do in their heads. They speak without listening to other people. But in reality we have to make arguments with others, and when we are not right, we have to make adjustments in our thinking, if we want to come closer to the truth. When you communicate with others you have to have both desires, desire to speak and a desire to listen. Having a desire to do just one of them is not enough. Unless you want to live in a daydream, which I do not recommend.
 
I have definitely had experienced a lot of daydreaming, but it's mostly due to flashbacks of negative emotions related to guilt, sorrow and anguish for missed opportunities in the past - which cloud my perception of the present and stifle my self-expression. In my job I oftentimes either feel powerless, or find that I "miss the mark" when I have a thought to do something positive, but a part of me doesn't want to put in the effort. Due to this tendency I am sometimes anxious about whether I forget to say or do something.

How it manifests for me is not so much related to the topic, but I've noticed that when listen to more upbeat music, I tend to have wildly fluctuating positive emotions but without any associated "dream" content per se. But it leaves me somewhat exhausted after the fact and it can be likened to a drug high and feels quite unnatural. It's like the difference between the emotional range and depth of a child versus that of an adult.

Also, this idea of dreaming reminds me of G's story of the Evil Magician:

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins." [Quoted by P.I. Ouspensky, In Search of the Miraculous]

In this case though the dream is instituted by the Magician or the Devil as Laura writes in this article.

So, how much of our daydreams are really "ours" and how much is just the Predator's Mind, automatically feeding 4D STS forces with the energy of our consciousness? Maybe we are responsible for the main themes of the dream I suppose, but if it's not a creative process per se, even that could just be some kind of thought injection, or something like that? A influences come into mind. The C's also have said that free will would not have been abridged unless we had obliged. Just some thoughts.
 
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