Dear Laura, whats going on?

Menna

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
In the same token, Menna, you can try to avoid over-analyzing what happened in this thread, and not give "mirrors" either if you don't want them yourself.

I remember what the C's said to me roughly 2 years ago when I asked them what is the best way for me to contribute to the forum and the experiment in general and they replied help others up the ladder. This has and always will stick with me as their response to me has a lot of responsibility in it a responsibility they believe I should act on. When posting on the forum I always look for ways to help by giving my view point on the forum. At the same time it is important for me not to fake anything. I was not where I wanted to be in life in 2014-2016 and needed to be more in life get into the trenches to get to a point where I am on the right track based on my personal standards. Its easy to give idealistic advice and harder to give realistic advice realistic advance comes from experience and knowledge IMO

I felt my esoteric progress far outweighed my society "in life" progress and I wanted it to be closer to the same. I am not saying one is better than the other however I chose to be here and I believe it is important to learn about both and progress in both. I am definitely closer to my non esoteric "in life" goals and have learned from my experiences and will hopefully at the right time when reading a post be able to share a helpful point of view. I posted less on the forum for me and only for me not because the forum is too this or too that or because of any forum member or any other reason. I needed to progress in life in a way that I wanted to. I still have far to go esoterically but now I feel more balanced and comfortable. I have and I am happy with the progress and I have learned about society and people and I have more of a balanced feeling of life and the information here. As a disclaimer to all forum members you can give me a mirror I don't have to ask for one I always want honest feedback from different levels.

I will also respect that forum and if I do not feel like engaging then I will not engage sort of like a give it my all or nothing type of mentality and I know that sounds black and white but for the importance of what is going on within the forum I feel that its the right mentality to have when relating to the forum from my level.
 

Azur

The Living Force
Menna said:
I felt my esoteric progress far outweighed my society "in life" progress and I wanted it to be closer to the same.

You've said something important that applies to too many here: some pursue some kind of esoteric "goal" to be reached that will magically manifest changes in their real world lives, by stopping into this forum and read about the work, without putting any effort into actually doing it.

They split their "real life" and their "imaginary life" here.

No benefits can be had until they're integrated.

:)
 

bjorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
[quote author= Menna]they replied help others up the ladder. This has and always will stick with me as their response to me has a lot of responsibility in it a responsibility they believe I should act on[/quote]

This could be interpreted in different ways, one of Gurdjieff’s Aphorisms states: ''By teaching others you will learn yourself.''

Whenever we try to give advice. We also explore our own machine more. And learn how to better reach others.

So it's not only about the other, but there is a also a lot we could learn about ourselves when we practise this. It's best to also focus on that. OSIT.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
bjorn said:
[quote author= Menna]they replied help others up the ladder. This has and always will stick with me as their response to me has a lot of responsibility in it a responsibility they believe I should act on

This could be interpreted in different ways, one of Gurdjieff’s Aphorisms states: ''By teaching others you will learn yourself.''

Whenever we try to give advice. We also explore our own machine more. And learn how to better reach others.

So it's not only about the other, but there is a also a lot we could learn about ourselves when we practise this. It's best to also focus on that. OSIT.
[/quote]

I think that's a good observation bjorn. I think I learn more every time I search for some session quote to illustrate some point being talked about here. Often it is due to my point of progress having changed since the first time I have read the material. Also I tend to see other interesting other interesting ideas within the sessions that are related to the topic just found and I can't help but want to research those as well.

Mena, I hope your balancing goes well. And I hope you will share what you are learning when the time is right for you.
 

luc

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Menna said:
I was not where I wanted to be in life in 2014-2016 and needed to be more in life get into the trenches to get to a point where I am on the right track based on my personal standards. Its easy to give idealistic advice and harder to give realistic advice realistic advance comes from experience and knowledge IMO

I think that's very reasonable - it's always important to practice what we preach, and we can only give sound advice based on real-life application of knowledge and the resulting insights. However, in my experience, these insights are strengthened once we share them or use them to give advice - we know that our brains get rewired by putting things into writing, and I often felt that I could remember certain things much better after I wrote about them here. Sometimes I doubt whether I'm qualified at all to give certain advice, but afterwards I think not only did it help others, but I came closer to my own ideals as a consequence of decribing them! This means, I think, that we can give advice to someone here on the forum, even if we ourselves are not yet able to fully implement this advice ourselves. We should have experience, yes, but we don't need to be perfect. But by sharing advice here, we move closer to perfection. So yes, it all goes together.

Menna said:
I felt my esoteric progress far outweighed my society "in life" progress and I wanted it to be closer to the same. I am not saying one is better than the other however I chose to be here and I believe it is important to learn about both and progress in both. I am definitely closer to my non esoteric "in life" goals and have learned from my experiences and will hopefully at the right time when reading a post be able to share a helpful point of view.

I get what you are saying and I don't disagree; however, I think 'esoteric progress' and what you call 'in life progress' are essentially the same thing. We are on an 'esoteric path' all the time, everywhere, whatever we do. And we must remember this path in everything we do, apply our knowledge as much as possible, remember ourselves as much as possible. So it's not that we have a progress here on the forum and another in our real life - they go together. Otherwise, if we are 'progressing' on the forum but not in real-life, we can easily just 'dream to be awake', while making no progress at all. Sooner or later this will become obvious and things start getting off the rails, I think.

The danger I see here, Menna, is that it can happen the other way around, too - we can think we are making progress in real life, while not being active here, but in reality we might get off-track and don't notice it. Of course, it's perfectly fine to focus on 'real life' things for periods of time and then maybe come back later strenghthened, but on this path we're on, life tends to throw all kinds of challenges and traps at us, so many of us naturally feel inclined to network about things or share our thoughts here to stay 'grounded', get feedback, and formulate our thoughts so that they become clearer. That way, we become more 'together' and ultimately stronger and better prepared to handle the 'dance with the universe'.

Menna said:
I will also respect that forum and if I do not feel like engaging then I will not engage sort of like a give it my all or nothing type of mentality and I know that sounds black and white but for the importance of what is going on within the forum I feel that its the right mentality to have when relating to the forum from my level.

This seems to be a good attitude to me - we always should 'give it our best', and often this means choosing our battles and only engaging when we really have something to say (and can follow up on it ;)). However, if this attitude keeps us from even trying, this can be a problem - we get good at stuff by practicing, which naturally includes making mistakes, not being on-point etc. Also, we never know who will benefit from our posts, imperfect as they are. And we can fool ourselves into thinking that we 'lack the real-life experience' to talk about something - when in reality, we might have something worthwile to add. Remember that the predator's mind is a clever beast - it will convince us of all kinds of things, unbeknownst to us, just to keep us from doing the right thing.

Another thing: if you see this forum as an 'esoteric place', you are right of course, but as I said, 'esoteric progress' goes hand in hand wih real-life progress (or is even the same thing), and this is reflected in the many down-to-earth topics discussed here. So if you have enough of Work-related topics here, for example, because you feel you want to implement them first before talking about them, fair enough - but then you could forget abut the Work topics for a while and focus more on the diet&health, political or psychological topics and see what you can learn and share there. These topics are not about 'esoteric development' per se, but about nuts&bolts facts and research.

Anyways, these are just some thoughts that came up reading your post (thanks for sharing, by the way!).
 

Voyageur

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
luc said:
Menna said:
I felt my esoteric progress far outweighed my society "in life" progress and I wanted it to be closer to the same. I am not saying one is better than the other however I chose to be here and I believe it is important to learn about both and progress in both. I am definitely closer to my non esoteric "in life" goals and have learned from my experiences and will hopefully at the right time when reading a post be able to share a helpful point of view.

I get what you are saying and I don't disagree; however, I think 'esoteric progress' and what you call 'in life progress' are essentially the same thing. We are on an 'esoteric path' all the time, everywhere, whatever we do. And we must remember this path in everything we do, apply our knowledge as much as possible, remember ourselves as much as possible. So it's not that we have a progress here on the forum and another in our real life - they go together. Otherwise, if we are 'progressing' on the forum but not in real-life, we can easily just 'dream to be awake', while making no progress at all. Sooner or later this will become obvious and things start getting off the rails, I think.

The danger I see here, Menna, is that it can happen the other way around, too - we can think we are making progress in real life, while not being active here, but in reality we might get off-track and don't notice it. Of course, it's perfectly fine to focus on 'real life' things for periods of time and then maybe come back later strenghthened, but on this path we're on, life tends to throw all kinds of challenges and traps at us, so many of us naturally feel inclined to network about things or share our thoughts here to stay 'grounded', get feedback, and formulate our thoughts so that they become clearer. That way, we become more 'together' and ultimately stronger and better prepared to handle the 'dance with the universe'.

I think that is good grounded advise Menna that Luc has provided; for all of us.

There are difficult times in peoples lives; past times, present times and the day to day and hour to hour times, and it is hard to make sense of these alone if not for a network helping. In order to receive, you have to truly ask.

Look forward to hearing from you when you feel the time is right or have questions you need to ask. Although it can seem hard, keep steeping forward. :)
 

genero81

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
voyageur said:
luc said:
Menna said:
I felt my esoteric progress far outweighed my society "in life" progress and I wanted it to be closer to the same. I am not saying one is better than the other however I chose to be here and I believe it is important to learn about both and progress in both. I am definitely closer to my non esoteric "in life" goals and have learned from my experiences and will hopefully at the right time when reading a post be able to share a helpful point of view.

I get what you are saying and I don't disagree; however, I think 'esoteric progress' and what you call 'in life progress' are essentially the same thing. We are on an 'esoteric path' all the time, everywhere, whatever we do. And we must remember this path in everything we do, apply our knowledge as much as possible, remember ourselves as much as possible. So it's not that we have a progress here on the forum and another in our real life - they go together. Otherwise, if we are 'progressing' on the forum but not in real-life, we can easily just 'dream to be awake', while making no progress at all. Sooner or later this will become obvious and things start getting off the rails, I think.

The danger I see here, Menna, is that it can happen the other way around, too - we can think we are making progress in real life, while not being active here, but in reality we might get off-track and don't notice it. Of course, it's perfectly fine to focus on 'real life' things for periods of time and then maybe come back later strenghthened, but on this path we're on, life tends to throw all kinds of challenges and traps at us, so many of us naturally feel inclined to network about things or share our thoughts here to stay 'grounded', get feedback, and formulate our thoughts so that they become clearer. That way, we become more 'together' and ultimately stronger and better prepared to handle the 'dance with the universe'.

I think that is good grounded advise Menna that Luc has provided; for all of us.

There are difficult times in peoples lives; past times, present times and the day to day and hour to hour times, and it is hard to make sense of these alone if not for a network helping. In order to receive, you have to truly ask.

Look forward to hearing from you when you feel the time is right or have questions you need to ask. Although it can seem hard, keep steeping forward. :)

I agree wholeheartedly. The idea of the Fourth Way is that we work on all "rooms of our house" simutaneously and our real world conditions and circumstances provide the 'material' we need to do just that.

Thanks Menna for your post. I for one was concerned and hoping you were okay. You've explained your situation well and it sounds like you are doing good to me. :thup:
 
Top Bottom