Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

I guess that if "Shadowlands" is where an individual "fits", they might not perceive it negatively. But for a person with an incipient individuated soul, or conscience, who has adopted beliefs that are orthogonal to their reality or their conscience during life, such a place might be very unpleasant indeed!

This reminded me of something that one of the spirits in Betty Stafford's book says. [This spirit] "calls this determined refusal to pick themselves up, this deliberate rejection by the soul of all that is good and ennobling, the unpardonable sin. But God has nothing to do with the withholding of pardon. Unpardonable, because pardon is impossible where sin is congenial and penitence unfelt."

For me, what this means is that some souls in hell actually don't feel it as a punishment and continue to live their lives there just as they had been doing 'on Earth'. Maybe, when they start feeling it as a penitence, they can decide whether or not to leave that place and 'pick themselves up'.
 
Just before seeing this thread for the first time I was reading and watching a lot of NDE accounts. A meta-theme that stood out to me is that, although there are many variations and each story is unique, there are some common elements to most of them that resembles the structure of the hero's journey. It looks something roughly like:

- Departure: normal life with normal consciousness in the ordinary world is disturbed by a physical trauma or shock that leads to a special world with a different form of consciousness.

- Initiation: in this different reality there is often some form of mentor/guide and/or allies, usually in the form of deceased relatives or more etheric beings; a trial/ordeal, often related to the choice of returning or going further into the light; some form of illumination, often regarding one's duties in this Earth, God/the divine or other matters of cosmic significance, or at least the acknowledgment of spiritual reality.

- Return: return to the body and thus to the ordinary world and consciousness, usually reluctantly and sometimes unwillingly. They are physically back to where they started but are inwardly transformed in some way, no fear of death, greater understanding etc. There is commonly a sense of bestowing to others what they've learned, using gifts acquired to help others (such as mediumship) or at least living life in a way that honors what they've gone through, integrating what they've learned.

Also, the death and rebirth theme plays out not only metaphorically but quite literally.
 
I've read Anita Moorjani's Dying to be Me and watched a couple of her interviews in the past. What I appreciate about her retelling is the non-religious flavour. She seems to have no agenda, only to share the information she brought back. It was pretty amazing. She was in the final stage of cancer, body riddled with it with supposedly hours to live.
 
For me, what this means is that some souls in hell actually don't feel it as a punishment and continue to live their lives there just as they had been doing 'on Earth'. Maybe, when they start feeling it as a penitence, they can decide whether or not to leave that place and 'pick themselves up'.

@Yas ,

I have a lot of the same programming when it comes to Christian upbringing and I don't realize it sometimes. For me it may not be on the concept of hell but other issues. I just noticed you mentioning the "hell" concept so I looked for a Cs reference to see if that relates to the departing souls who may be confused later.

Session 21 October 1995:
Q: (L) The other night, when we were talking about the underground laboratories and the taking of the MIA and KIA individuals from W.W.II, that would seem to imply that the underground tunnel system and the alien activity that has been going on there has been going on a lot longer than since 1947, is this correct?

A: Yes, but in much less intensive form.

Q: (L) OK, it's gotten a lot more intensive since 1947 or thereabouts. Well, the thing that I want to know: is there any relationship between these underground laboratories and facilities and our cultural concept of Hell ?

A: Not in such a simplistic sense.

Q: (L) Well, I'm just curious as to whether the concept of Hell being underground, where people were tortured and worked on and all kinds of miseries going on arose from some people who escaped from, or psychically intuited...

A: Link, but not unified.

Q: (L) Is there a Hell?

A: No.
 
"For me, what this means is that some souls in hell actually don't feel it as a punishment and continue to live their lives there just as they had been doing 'on Earth'. Maybe, when they start feeling it as a penitence, they can decide whether or not to leave that place and 'pick themselves up'."

Just thinking: That sounds like the arena we are living in here.
 
@Yas ,

I have a lot of the same programming when it comes to Christian upbringing and I don't realize it sometimes. For me it may not be on the concept of hell but other issues. I just noticed you mentioning the "hell" concept so I looked for a Cs reference to see if that relates to the departing souls who may be confused later.

Session 21 October 1995:

If we assume that there is 5 Density, then we may also expect that there are many souls of beings lived in the various places of the Cosmos. Considering the multitude of beings and the multitude of attitudes, expectations, previous experiences of these beings may have, we can speculate that some feel that they are in the Hell and that they will be forever; if they choose to think/believe like that, or they are programmed to think like that, then for them, really, it can be their reality; and when we add to this the existence in timeless state, then factually we can say that "they are in the hell for the whole eternity", at least they can feel it like that, until something breaks their state or they choose otherwise.

However, if we come to the conception like in the, for instance, Christianity's Hell. There is no evidence that something like Hell, in the religious term, really exist. Also, Cassiopaeans denies anything like that.
 
However, if we come to the conception like in the, for instance, Christianity's Hell. There is no evidence that something like Hell, in the religious term, really exist. Also, Cassiopaeans denies anything like that.

@Luks,

I think suffering, depending on the why and and for how long, can be "hellish". The Christian concept for the most part is a once and done deal. It is "Heaven or Hell which will it be?" as some billboards display. I suppose Catholicism at least allows for one try to pray for those in an intermediate state of purgatory.
 
Sometimes it's referred to as the 'Shadow Lands', and it looks like a gloomy desert or a worn down city or a rocky place full of caves where souls wander aimlessly complaining about their condition.

Exhaustively described in the series consisting of 6 books written by REV. G{eorge}. VALE OWEN, titled Beyond the Veil. Those are merely the "Midlands", the shadow zone / Twilight Zone, places of mostly emotional torture. For example, beside the description of desolate cities and their wretched inhabitants, a suffering woman is described in that Shadow Zone, who is constantly tormented by a Fallen Dark Angel. Latter is mentioned having fallen from Heaven, because of a serious dispute, refusal to carry out an [always] more difficult, Self-improving task.
Beyond the Shadowlands - are the really desolate, dreadful places - ending in large, "Hell Prisons" a furnace-foundry hell, where millions of most wretched slave-souls are made to work very hard and their Slave Masters equipped with whips & weapons of torture [one case of a guard is described giving us a sample of his emotions & suffering]. Then even lower than that follows the very bottom of "evil", the total darkness.

Its interesting that Hollywood TV Show script authors sample from these past-century works. For example there was borrowed a meme of "demons are forged in Hell" in the Lucifer [comedy] series and interestingly the "blackest black area of "Hell"" has been borrowed by famous TV Show writer/creator Eric Kripke, he uses that most remote realm from light named as the "Empty", filled with blackest black goo and nothing really, where all dead powerful entities go after they have been destroyed in the soon finally ending TV Show Supernatural.

IIRC, Owen in his books describes some kind of Hellhound-type creatures that were created from the blackest back materia at the bottom of Hell/Nothing.

Important to note that Owen maintains [with the help of his "near-angelic" spirit guides] who are telling their story to him, that no zone of Hell is impossible to escape. If one struggles to create some Light within the Self, its possible to gradually crawl back into Zones that have more Light ambience. From Hell, one can get toward the gradient-like, brighter regions of the Shadow Lands, then toward the Twilight Zone-like "Border" that separates the Highlands of Heaven from the bad areas. The Border is a promising land filled with lots of mocking evil spirits that frequently torture pure souls, who are trying to get to Heaven, according to stories from trustworthy sources, Owen was assured. For example once Owen began writing down a strange dramatic tale told by a Guide. He was well in the middle of the story, when on one of the next automatic writing sessions his 'recently' passed dead mother contacted him in distress that the Guide Owen accepted to receive stories from is a Bad Man. The dude was described as a wicked spirit, ultimately wanting to cause some harm to Owen, so that semi-evil, dark Dude was disconnected.

IIRC, when a suffering soul fights itself through the "The Border" then there is a massive, high rock wall that must be climbed, while constantly being harassed by evil spirits weakening the resolve. Once this "abyssal wall" is successfully scaled with usually one's last strength, one gets into a well watched "Security Zone", a gray, "No Man's Land"-area that separates the outmost reaches of the beautiful Highlands of Heaven from the negative places that lead toward Hell. Usually if a fighting soul gets to this "No Man's Land"-area, it is already very-very exhausted and usually collapses with the evil spirits swooping down onto it like vultures to finally [probably] tear the fighting Soul apart to consume its life-essence / energy. However this zone is watched by alert "Angel-assistants" and lower level angels, its like a watchtower with a super-strong reflector. Once a fighting soul, - who has fought valiantly to get there- is detected, the watchtower sounds an alert and a sort of STO SWAT Team arrives, a couple, or usually just one Strong Angel, who is well prepared and filled himself/herself with Light-Energy to the brim, this reasonably high-ranked professional quickly flies to help the collapsed Soul, who is swarmed by evil spirits. What happens usually in such cases is told in a story: The Strong Angel swooped down on the large crowd of evil spirits and began fighting them off. He/she expended a lot of Light energy and the evil spirits were scattering or were being destroyed, but there were a good bunch, who realized that the Strong Angel was alone. They turned around and began swarming him. The watchtower crew saw that the fighting Strong Angel's light was dimming and he will lose. They quickly assembled - as is usual there - and unified their life-essences / Light-energies and as they were trained established a blinding white beam of Light streaming toward the Strong Angel for life-saving refuel. Thanks to their quick thinking and essential help, the Strong Angel was able to scatter the evil spirits and picked up the unconscious Soul of the previously described woman, who was earlier tortured by the Dark Angel, and flew with her beyond the security zone, up to the very edge of the Highlands of Heaven that was a gorgeous plateau covered with beautiful, fresh green grass and placed her there. Some of the watchtower crew came and began guarding her as the Strong Angel left after making sure, she was helped as best as they could help her. She was gradually energized there and woke up, then her long-long journey began. [probably the Long Wave Cycle we heard from the C's]

Then he was introduced to normal guys, "STO-class" spirits of the dead, who seriously were there to serve, help and guide. The fact that they were the good-guy story-tellers could be quickly established by the very informative stories they told. Way better than stupid Bible-stories. They are described to have a beautiful gradation of ranks from beginner assistant "angel" to mid-ranked angels toward the stronger angels, who are - according to our system received from the C's - could be classified as strong STO with amazing powers, really high intelligence and super-strong Light Emitting capability.
These assistant-to-mid level sources (Owen's guides) are essentially sober, okay guys, who strive from "lower angelic service" toward the higher, more energy filled, more Light-filled regions of Heaven.

Sorry, I won't take up your time. Just there was another important feature of "STO servitude". There arrived to the very border, to the nice grass covered area of the Highlands of Heaven a merchant / lawyer type guy, who didn't realize he was dead. A guide quickly arrived and began questioning him to determine where to send the guy. The dude quickly demanded the manager, began boasting and spoke in a commanding tone. He was condescending and treated the heavenly assistants like trash. He refused to take the guide's hand and follow the guide toward the Light - e.g. for further instruction, how he could develop himself by learning how to help others. So he refused and to everyone's surprise, he began to walk toward the No Man's Land, were the Light was not so unbearable for him, while constantly swearing:
- I am getting the Hell outta here!!!
This was a story told to Owen, of course. Then after "aeons" he fought himself back from Hell into exactly right to the grassy beginner area, to the edge of Heaven. A guide was quickly notified. Who came to give explanations and readily provide instruction was by now an "advanced angel", a higher ranked, highly educated official, the same guide, who originally met this unbearable merchant/lawyer. The events very differently. The previously insufferable dude began sobbing, grabbed the hand of the guide and began apologizing and was very willing to receive help and instruction, how to begin to help other freshly arriving dead persons.
The guide sighed and famously exclaimed:
- All such people do eventually come back to us crying, for help.
 
xhaustively described in the series consisting of 6 books written by REV. G{eorge}. VALE OWEN, titled Beyond the Veil. Those are merely the "Midlands", the shadow zone / Twilight Zone, places of mostly emotional torture. For example, beside the description of desolate cities and their wretched inhabitants, a suffering woman is described in that Shadow Zone, who is constantly tormented by a Fallen Dark Angel.

I remember that case because I am close to end of vol I and II but from what I saw on Amazon there are mentioned only 4 books, so is it mentioned in books 3 or 4 or there is more?
 
I remember that case because I am close to end of vol I and II but from what I saw on Amazon there are mentioned only 4 books, so is it mentioned in books 3 or 4 or there is more?

I've also only read the first two. There are actually 6 volumes total. This fifth book seems to included the last two volumes,
"The Children of Heaven" and "The Outlands of Heaven".


It's strange how you cannot find them all together from the same publisher.
 
It's strange how you cannot find them all together from the same publisher.

Thanks, I tried to find it and found only I-IV. Maybe because those two were not sunshine and rainbows they found it not really worth of puting with the rest, but there is lots of Christian and Biblical gloss in there. What I found also in line with the above mentioned stories is a story of Jacob wrestling with the Angel:

The Angel might not be touched of mortal hands with impunity. He had manifested in visible form, and that form was even tangible, but not rudely to be treated. For the power of that Angel was such that the mere touching of the thigh of Jacob produced dislocation....But Angel was held there by the will of Jacob: not because Jacob s was the stronger will, but because of the Angel s condescension and courtesy

It seems there is so much difference in resonance that it has such an effect on lower vibrations. And about witholding Angel s name is more in line what was said here about using your own tools :

Sometimes the names are given. But in this case not; and for a reason: There is much power in the use of a name. Know this, and remember it; for much disaster continually ensues by reason of the misuse of holy names. disaster wondered at and often felt to be unmerited. Jacob for his own sake was denied the name......Things are so ordered that not alone is this possible but continually is it done. Strange as it may seem to you, help is often demanded from these spheres in such a way that it must be given, and yet it were, time and again, better that the asker s own resources should have been employed, and he thereby have risen to greater strenght then by this the other way...This help would be often refused and he, unable to understand, would probably hindered in his faith and preplexed.
 
Since these books mention suicide, the following article on how to help someone who is suicidal seems fitting here because it helps to orient someone towards a life after suicidal thoughts and may also give some clues on how to assist someone who is dying or who has recently passed.


How to help someone who is suicidal

We have been conditioned to look upon the tender topic of suicide with horror. Perhaps because it represents a failure of our varied systems of control. Perhaps because we are, collectively, far from being at peace with the complexities of death as a part of the human experience. Perhaps because we have to pretend that we have never personally felt anything like suicidality in order to maintain the illusion that the experience of suicidality is pathological.

Suicidality is not one thing. It is not a symptom of genetic illness. It is not rare. And it is not simply a desire to end one’s life.

In college at MIT, I worked a volunteer suicide hotline called Nightline, and spent many nights on the phone with people on the brink.

I learned that suicidal thoughts can be a desire to disappear. To not be instead of being. They can be a crisis of faith and a perception that everything is terminally wrong. They can be a deep grappling with whether the universe is fundamentally a benevolent or a hostile place. They can be the stuck belief that things will always be exactly as they are now.

I believe suicidality to be a nearly requisite expression of urgency for change that must be met with the promise of such change being possible. These feelings express the need for deep transformation that feels like a rebirth, replete with the labor pains and expressions of anguish and overwhelm. They are a scream that says, “This way of being, of living, cannot go on one second longer!!!”

Suicidality as a symptom of awakening
I know that you have helped a lot of people, but I just can’t do it. I’m done. I have nothing, my life has been struggle and suffering and I need this to be over.
And she meant it. Sonia was six months past her last dose of Effexor—a medication she had been on since she was 15. She is now 42.

At any given time, about 30% of my practice is actively suicidal. They know that I am comfortable with this. They know that I never have called 911. Never put them on a patronizing suicide watch. Never have drawn up some promissory note-type contract. I have never implied for one second that they don’t have what it takes to move through this.

They know that I am not scared of them or their feelings.

Rather, I perceive that something in them needs to die in order for them to be reborn and that this is their raising of the white flag. This surrender is the end of the end and the beginning of the beginning, if only we let the pain come up, come out, and leave. And it does. It moves. It changes. And often, what comes in its wake is exactly the kind of shift that could never have been prescribed, taught, or suggested. It’s deep spiritual growth.

In my taper process with patients, I aim for a strong, resilient physical foundation, first through a one-month commitment to self-care. I tell them that I am here to help support their body’s stress resilience and to offer them a taper process as free as possible from rashes, hair loss, menstrual abnormalities, electric shocks, body pain, and the myriad bodily signs of psychotropic withdrawal. But I am not here to make it easy or even tolerable on a psycho-emotional level. This is because I know that transformation is a necessary part of the alchemy of a successful taper. The part of them that believed in medication needs to be shed. But that part rarely goes quietly.

Transformation requires the death of an old self. Of old beliefs. Of old forms of security and identity. Transformation is disorienting and even terrifying.

Psych med-induced suicidality
The transformation process reflects a conscious grappling with suicidal feelings. These patients interact with the most existential of questions—to be or not to be. But psychotropics can also induce impulsive violence against self. Anytime I hear of a completed suicide in the media, my first thought is, “What were they on?” As in the case of Kim Witzack’s husband, Woody, who never felt suicidal a day in his life and was found hanging in their garage five weeks after initiating Zoloft, psychiatric medications have a poorly understood capacity to induce a dissociation from the soul. In fact, many of those who commit suicide in the setting of akathisia-induced impulsivity describe a sense of disconnection from their body and go on to hang themselves.

It is my belief that psychotropics can marry impulsivity and agitation with a mysterious rupture in consciousness, such that these acts of self-extermination make sense and are often completed.

In their description of psychiatric drugs as substances of chemical influence, Moncrieff and Cohen state: “…psychiatric drugs are, first and foremost, psychoactive drugs. They induce complex, varied, often unpredictable physical and mental states that patients typically experience as global, rather than distinct therapeutic effects and side effects.”1

How to help in the moment of crisis
If you have the opportunity to help someone who is reaching out to you from the dark hole of suicidality, here are some pointers:

1. Show what’s possible.
As Biggie would say, “If you don’t know, now you know.” It is particularly important to represent the possibility of medication-free recovery to those who are on meds and suicidal (or are recently initiated on them). Share these videos of radical healing, many of which depict histories of suicidality. Make sure those struggling know that suicidality can be an integral part of the experience of self-healing, and that moving through the portal of change can lead to something so grand and so much more incredible than their scared mind can show them in this moment.

2. Have no fear.
Check your own baggage at the door, please. Worry and concern are my least favorite words, you know why? Because when you worry about someone, you are dumping your unmetabolized fear into their already full lap. When we are in crisis, we need to be held in the light of possibility. We need to be reflected two things: “It’s going to be ok” and “You’ve got this”; not “I’m worried about you” and “I’m gonna call the police.” Fear-based escalation of this delicate situation is not going to help your loved one. Neither are more medications, the inevitable outcome of professional intervention.

3. Listen.
Do you know how healing it can be to feel seen and heard? Many who are suicidal struggle with a sense of existential invisibility at best and deep shame at worst. They feel wrong inside, perhaps permanently. They feel like exceptions, aliens, freaks of the human experience who simply can’t hack it. An unexpected antidote to that feeling is having their reality received. Quietly and completely. This is empowering because, through you, they can have a lived experience of the possibility that their ugliest truth is not too much. It’s not grotesque. They can see that you can handle it, receive it, and reflect back to them that you’ve really listened and heard them. Leave room for pauses, reach out a hand if that feels right, and if they are open to an “exercise,” set a timer for three minutes and just try to hold each other’s locked eye gaze. It sounds strange, but it’s the fastest way I know to drop into the heart and out of the mind. Within even one minute, they are likely to have an emotional release of some kind from this simple experience.

4. Normalize and contextualize the experience.
So far, you may have noticed that I haven’t recommended a lot of talking, advice, or guidance. In fact, when someone is in this kind of a fear state, their childself wounds are likely hemorrhaging all over the place. They don’t have access to their “rational” prefrontal cortex, the managerial capacity of the brain, because they are in their reptilian limbic system. Use simple phrases, the way you would speak to and soothe a child (without being patronizing). It can also be helpful to speak in visuals. Symbols are powerful, so normalize this inflection point in their lives with the invocation of a metamorphosis image… Refer to the way a caterpillar must feel, all gooey and disoriented in the dark before it has to squeeze out of the tight hole in a chrysalis to be reborn.

I tell my tapering patients: this is what it’s supposed to feel like. Change is confusing, overwhelming, and often terrifying. Your ego hates change and it is likely freaking out because it knows that a part of it may be about to slough off. It almost has to feel this way in order to lay down new tracks for a radically expanded experience.

5. Find meaning.
If you know this person well, you might invoke the power of meaning-making. I have observed that suffering ends where meaning begins. And that beyond normalizing the archetypal nature of self-initiation and transformation that feelings of suicidality can attend, the meaning of this particular juncture in their life can bring great organization and solace to the emotional chaos.

What do you know about them that they need to let go of? What’s not working? Can you reflect that they can handle this and that they are ready to move through the tight part of the birth canal? What programs, beliefs, and voices are criticizing them? Can you encourage them to turn toward the pain and personify it as their childself, or even just a small same-gendered child that is terrified and confused?

Often the suicidal “part” of someone is the internalized critic/parental voice admonishing them with shame-inducing epithets. When we individuate from our parents (energetically), when we try to reclaim our power and look at old programs that no longer serve, often this punishing voice rages. . . simply because it knows it may be silenced for good.

6. Remind them that they are simply feeling.
As a nation, we have very little experience with feeling. In fact, it terrifies us to encounter the raw power of unbridled emotions like anger, grief, and shame. The lengths we go to in order to avoid feeling subtend and define our modern day addictive lifestyles. But what if someone who is feeling that they can’t go on another day is simply a sentinel of a new kind of humanity? What if they are leading us all into a new way of courageously relating to the shadow, to our dark parts, and holding that in witness consciousness and love? It’s possible that the pain they feel is all of our pain. . . and the rest of us are simply numbed out.

Remind them, though, that they are simply feeling a feeling; probably an ancient feeling that they were told wasn’t safe to feel early on in their lives. Feelings are energy and they, by definition, transform and change.

Encourage them to reflect on the last time they felt crushing soul pain. Did it transform? Of course it did. And once it does, we have that lived experience to draw on the next time life brings us to our knees, so it will never quite feel this blinding again. It’s the experience that a naturally birthing woman has—almost every naturally birthing woman: that she wants to give up the moment the baby’s head is crowning and about to emerge. And then the baby is born.

Part of really feeling is acknowledging that we are not in control. To truly feel a feeling, we must surrender to it. The moment we do, it releases. But if you lock horns with it, the limbo state of resistance can generate a kind of ongoing misery that would naturally lead someone to want to opt out. So encourage this person to say “Yes, ok,” to the feeling as a starting point.

7. Move into service.
This may not appeal to all types, but it certainly has helped me in my darker moments. When I’ve been at the brink, I’ve taken great solace in the fact that the simple experiencing of my own pain will help me to help others in the future. This is because there is no shortcut to empathy. You can’t take a class on it, you can’t watch someone else experience it. You have to get in the muck and see what being that dirty actually feels like. And then, as a lasting gift, you are forever deeply connected to others who visit that place you were in. You become the wounded healer.

It can’t be a coincidence or an accident that so many of those who fully recover from psychiatry go on to serve others as healers. I had to create a peer support arm of Vital Mind Reset simply because these individuals wanted to pay it forward, and recognized the diamonds they had collected from their own coal mines. Those who can transform suicidality into service are some of the most powerful sources of healing on this planet.

8. Offer gentle support.
Language is powerful. That’s why we have been so careful with it up until this point. If you succeed in offering this person a glimpse of ok-ness, you might want to give them something to take them through the following hours. A simple mantra like “I can do this,” or “I’m ok,” or “It’s going to feel different soon,” repeated hundreds of times an hour can help to create the conditions for a shift in perspective. Similarly, encourage them to visualize themselves free of this pain—whole, healed, strong—to invoke the power of a seeing-it-into-being potential. A tapping exercise for suicidal thoughts, a meditation for crisis, and/or flower remedies for the dark night can also be a secondary line of support after you have established a connection.

Let’s evolve the conversation on suicide
Even if you don’t have someone near you struggling with this, open yourself to a new perspective on suicidal feelings. We must, as a collective, reorient around the crisis of selfif we are ever to mature beyond our dysfunctional habits of unconsciousness. Together, we can hold individuals who are plumbing the depths of their pain and help them to transform it. We can show them that there is another, med-free way to accept themselves and that there is precedent for what it looks like to break free from psychiatry, its labels, and consciousness-warping chemicals. We need to turn toward this elephant in our sociocultural room and make room for dark feelings to be felt without reflexively freaking out, maligning, or pathologizing. When feelings are truly felt and accepted, they lose the capacity to translate into violence.

“The wound is the place where the Light enters you" - Rumi

 
Since these books mention suicide, the following article on how to help someone who is suicidal seems fitting here because it helps to orient someone towards a life after suicidal thoughts and may also give some clues on how to assist someone who is dying or who has recently passed.





I've read articles like that before. Two, three years ago, I found them interesting and beneficial. But right now, considering how the world is going and the future of humanity, I cannot help feeling like it's kind of a swindle. I'm not saying that if I knew someone suicidal I wouldn't encourage them to stay alive and have a silver lining. However, it's like ok, right now it's not so bad. But next year things are likely going to get dramatically worse and it only goes downhill from there. In ten years, the world could become unrecognisable. Yeah, everything is lesson, so by staying alive the suicidal person get to learn their lessons, but really, there isn't any future.
 
I've read articles like that before. Two, three years ago, I found them interesting and beneficial. But right now, considering how the world is going and the future of humanity, I cannot help feeling like it's kind of a swindle. I'm not saying that if I knew someone suicidal I wouldn't encourage them to stay alive and have a silver lining. However, it's like ok, right now it's not so bad. But next year things are likely going to get dramatically worse and it only goes downhill from there. In ten years, the world could become unrecognisable. Yeah, everything is lesson, so by staying alive the suicidal person get to learn their lessons, but really, there isn't any future.

Also, if there's nothing miraculous about escaping death, there probably isn't something miraculous about living either. Life is just what it is, but there's nothing to it. The only con to suicide is that it's up to the Universe to decide when to recall the soul, not man. Also, from what I found on the forum, suicide sorts of bring bad karma.
 
The only con to suicide is that it's up to the Universe to decide when to recall the soul, not man. Also, from what I found on the forum, suicide sorts of bring bad karma.

From what I have read about this so far (the book Suicide and the Afterlife - sorry, this is not the exact title, just paraphrased - is still on my to-read-list), suicide is in most instances - but not all - ‘frowned’ upon in the afterlife. The way I see it is that the person wastes a good opportunity to further it’s own advancement.

Also I don’t think that it is only for the “Universe to decide when to recall the soul”. There is free will. While the ‘prospective life’ is designed in broad strokes in the pre-life planning phase, there is a big element of free will about what to do once living the life - otherwise, what would be the point if all was predetermined?
 

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