Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

[Cleo]

While making my way through Plato's Republic I came across an anecdoate that Plato relates to us through Socrates at the end, and it is a description of the afterlife, rewards and punishments proportionate to the virtues and sins, karma, the reincarnation of both humans and animals, and the source of incarnational amnesia.

I almost fell out of my chair when I read this. In my decade-long love of philosophy not once did I ever actually come across even a mention of this anecdote or story, in spite of the fact that I've heard countless times people mindlessly repeating Plato's tale of the Cave --- and both the afterlife and this cave analogy are from the same work!!! It just goes to show you how important is to read primary sources. Jee-zus!!

A couple months ago I read Raymond Moody's book Paranormal-My Life in Pursuit of the Afterlife. I had to go back and check but the story you mentioned above about the soldier Er in Plato's Republic is the same story that Raymond Moody discusses in Chapter 4 of his book. He talks about his experience reading Plato's Republic at University and how he was swept away by it. The story about the soldier Er would be the story to kindle his interest in studying the afterlife.

From Chapter 4:

There was another thing that drew me to Socrates, and that was the fearless way in which he wrestled with mankind's most important question: What happens when we die?

At this point in my young life, my interest in the question of an afterlife was like my interest in studying black holes in astronomy: though many astronomers believed that black holes exist somewhere out there in the vast universe, they had been unable to prove that black holes exist or describe how they work. I felt that the question of the afterlife was the black hole of the personal universe: something for which substantial proof of existence had been offered but which had not yet been explored in the proper way by scientists and philosophers.

Socrates was doing that very thing in The Republic. Everybody knows that The Republic is about justice. But at its heart it is really about justice and what justice is in relation to life after death. At the very beginning, Cephalus brings up the notion of life after death, which frames the entire work in the notion that justice is related to the afterlife.

But it was the story told about the soldier Ur by Socrates at the end of Plato's Republic that truly kindled my interest in answering questions about the afterlife...

 

[thorbiorn]

In Session 29 November 2001 there was passage that provides an example of one aspect of the relation between a parent and a child, perhaps in a larger context between people closely related as well as between life and the afterlife or should one say the "before-life"?

Q: {tape ended, restarted}...B*** from the egroup wrote about an event where her son was in a near fatal accident and she had some kind of experience where she was interacting with a number of beings who were "clicking" or "cliqueing" or whatever. She wanted to know what this was. It happened just before the accident.
A: She was conferencing with alternate selves of herself and others including her son.
Q: Was it because of this impending event? Was it discussions and making of decisions?
A: Yes, it was a possible check-out point for the son but he decided to add other elements to his karmic shopping list so to speak.
Q: Gee. Is Karma like going to the store? "I'll have two lessons of those, and five of that one over there! I need a dozen of these!" What a thought! A "karmic shopping list?" [...]

Yes, it gives an image of a person going to the hypermarket, shopping around and after some time coming to the line in front of the cashier at the check-out point. But then while in line to be served, they converse with their family on their mobile, (what else to do?), and suddenly they come to think of something that would be nice to get too while they are there. As a result, they rush out of the line and get back into the market.

Is this case in the transcripts simply another example of "as above so below"?

 

[Jones]

Is this case in the transcripts simply another example of "as above so below"?

Yep - 29 Nov 2001

Session 29 November 2001

November 29, 2001 Ark, Laura Q: Hello. A: Hello beloved ones. Q: And who do we have with us this evening? A: Mother Cassiopaea. Q: (L) Well, that was strange. {Laughter.} (L) My first question is: have we been dealing with the Vincent Bridges situation optimally? A: Close. Q: (L)...

cassiopaea.org

 

[Ghazi18]

Very Inspiring! Its amazing how no matter how hard people want to separate themselves or think they are separating themselves on a deeper level it is known that everything is an illusion. No matter how bad things may appear to be here on 3d, its incredible how the awareness is still known and shines brightly into the hearts of many in order to spread the seeds of light!

Thank you so much for this! I'm sure this gives many inspiration to strive to not only help themselves but others as well

 

[MikaelYosef]

This is just a random thought as I've been thinking more about this over the past couple of weeks. Part of the challenge of life and pursuing a STO path is learning to acknowledge the ego for what it is.

But, in getting to that point and considering the greater universe and beyond - descriptions of the afterlife (in this thread example) seems to be heliocentric - as in, it's just for us right here right now, on this rock. Is that a lesson for another day, or are we meant to consider that too in this lifetime? Not everyone will even get to the point where they acknowledge the ego, so for those who do and realise there could more to the 3D experience is there also a pursuit of trying to view things from an off-earth vantage point?

It's hard for me to imagine how we could live outside our existence other than perhaps during dreaming where there's an opportunity to learn and experience. I definitely know some of my dreams have been interesting, but importantly involved interactions with people that I've never met or have no recollection of in our present life - but in the dreams though, we go way back, I know their life history. It's only when I wake up and think 'huh? what? who was that?'

 

[Matthew]

This is just a random thought as I've been thinking more about this over the past couple of weeks. Part of the challenge of life and pursuing a STO path is learning to acknowledge the ego for what it is.

But, in getting to that point and considering the greater universe and beyond - descriptions of the afterlife (in this thread example) seems to be heliocentric - as in, it's just for us right here right now, on this rock. Is that a lesson for another day, or are we meant to consider that too in this lifetime? Not everyone will even get to the point where they acknowledge the ego, so for those who do and realise there could more to the 3D experience is there also a pursuit of trying to view things from an off-earth vantage point?

It's hard for me to imagine how we could live outside our existence other than perhaps during dreaming where there's an opportunity to learn and experience. I definitely know some of my dreams have been interesting, but importantly involved interactions with people that I've never met or have no recollection of in our present life - but in the dreams though, we go way back, I know their life history. It's only when I wake up and think 'huh? what? who was that?'

I can't remember where I encountered this; it may have been in the Conversations with God material or from the work of Robert Bruce, the astral travel/psychic self-defence writer but it was this thought: being attached to a physical body is hard for the soul. It is very restrictive and against the soul's natural nature to be able to move freely. So dreams are a chance for the soul to release itself from that stricture and refresh itself in its natural environment. I think I am paraphrasing it correctly but that makes a lot of sense to me and seems to be congruent with my experience of being alive. When I meet people I do not know in a dream, as you mention, I like to think that it is our souls meeting up for some reason. I have no idea if that is true or not but as long as I live my life when I am awake as best I can I don't think it matters. One thing is for sure, there is a hell of a lot more about this life business that I do not understand than I do. I have found it best for me to hold onto my beliefs lightly as life has a habit of proving them wrong.

 

[Aeneas]

This thread also reminds me of "Life Between Life" where Joel Whitton uses past life therapy as an instrument to study the spiritual dimensions of man. He says that all who return from the interlife, that moment between each incarnation, receive the same unrelenting message: "We are thoroughly responsible for who we are and the circumstances in which we find ourselves. We are the ones who do the choosing." It is a learning experience that invests each thought, word, and deed with meaning and purpose. Having glimpsed how each incarnation is elected based on the past, those who visit the interlife return to this life with a heightened awareness of their responsibilities.

So true. I have just reread the book and found it speaking to me perhaps even more in light of what we have discovered with Darwinism, materialism and the whole postmodernist movement. The book is very hope inspiring and shows life to be full of meaning. Paying off karmic debts explains a lot of 'misfortunes' and happenings in this life and yet despite how wrong we have gone of the path in one life, then the possibility of redeeming ourselves is always there. The Divine Cosmic Mind never closes the door on you.

The message of the book is very much aligned with the C's, namely that life is a classroom. As he writes:

Seen objectively from the interlife, every human experience is simply another lesson in the cosmic classroom. The more we learn from each lesson, the faster we evolve. Opportunities to love and serve are always sought in the interlife planning and, consequently, they must be seen as fundamental to self-development. As restful and rejuvenating as the experience of solitude might be from time to time, karmic unfoldment demands human interaction.

 

[Windmill knight]

Another account of a NDE. The guy was an atheist. He went for a moment into what he thinks was hell, then he saw a light that spoke to him, which he thinks was God, and came back as a born-again Christian. In spite of the cheesy reenactment I found the story quite touching!

 

[DianaRose]

Another account of a NDE. The guy was an atheist. He went for a moment into what he thinks was hell, then he saw a light that spoke to him, which he thinks was God, and came back as a born-again Christian. In spite of the cheesy reenactment I found the story quite touching!

That was indeed quite a touching video! Thank you. In your opinion, why did he have this moment in "hell", provided it was truly hell? Was it because he was atheist. Or maybe dark creatures somehow managed to reach him?

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

In trying to ignore the special effects, ect.. I still found something inauthentic about the whole thing., It's my own personal opinion but for a atheist he was very conversant with Scripture and possessed of an over enthusiastic
way of description.

As I say, its my own personal opinion, but his presentation would not persuade me to a belief in the afterlife in the way books on the subject on this forum have.

 

[bianca etezete]

Thank you, Joe, for sharing this stuff. Reminds me a lot of Dolores Cannons work in the Convoluted Universe book series.

 

[Jones]

Another account of a NDE. The guy was an atheist. He went for a moment into what he thinks was hell, then he saw a light that spoke to him, which he thinks was God, and came back as a born-again Christian. In spite of the cheesy reenactment I found the story quite touching!

I agree! Despite the cheesy factor, I had tears in my eyes.

 

[Windmill knight]

That was indeed quite a touching video! Thank you. In your opinion, why did he have this moment in "hell", provided it was truly hell? Was it because he was atheist. Or maybe dark creatures somehow managed to reach him?

I don't know, but there are several accounts of people having gone through NDE, as well as information received through mediums, that describe how souls don't always go straight into the light, and instead go to a dark place first. Sometimes it's referred to as the 'Shadow Lands', and it looks like a gloomy desert or a worn down city or a rocky place full of caves where souls wander aimlessly complaining about their condition. For others it's like being half-sunken in dark goo or mud in a sort of timeless state, and yet for others it's just a cold place of absolute darkness and loneliness. Whatever the manifestation, it seems to be directly related to the regrets or bad habits acquired by the soul during life, or to their belief system. So an atheist would likely experience something similar to 'nothingness' because that reflects their belief, if they are too attached to it. Or maybe the soul's FRV, resulting from its lifestyle, simply 'pulls it down' to a 'place' that matches - at least initially until they accept or 'remember' there is something higher, or they have cleansed whatever needs cleaning.

 

[Yozilla]

This is from 2016 Dr Oz interview with Anita Moorjani about her NDE and total recovery after it: Audio quality is poor but bearable...

 

[Laura]

I don't know, but there are several accounts of people having gone through NDE, as well as information received through mediums, that describe how souls don't always go straight into the light, and instead go to a dark place first. Sometimes it's referred to as the 'Shadow Lands', and it looks like a gloomy desert or a worn down city or a rocky place full of caves where souls wander aimlessly complaining about their condition. For others it's like being half-sunken in dark goo or mud in a sort of timeless state, and yet for others it's just a cold place of absolute darkness and loneliness. Whatever the manifestation, it seems to be directly related to the regrets or bad habits acquired by the soul during life, or to their belief system. So an atheist would likely experience something similar to 'nothingness' because that reflects their belief, if they are too attached to it. Or maybe the soul's FRV, resulting from its lifestyle, simply 'pulls it down' to a 'place' that matches - at least initially until they accept or 'remember' there is something higher, or they have cleansed whatever needs cleaning.

I guess that if "Shadowlands" is where an individual "fits", they might not perceive it negatively. But for a person with an incipient individuated soul, or conscience, who has adopted beliefs that are orthogonal to their reality or their conscience during life, such a place might be very unpleasant indeed!