Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

[luc]

Admittedly this is a very serious thread, and the concept of life after death is understood in different ways by different people. One man decided he wanted to cheer up the his family and friends at his own funeral:

Speaking of funny memorial services - John Cleese did it wonderfully for his friend:

 

[Nico]

Thank you a lot Joe, it highlights strange experiences from the past and point out that we don't really much know about ourselves, that there plenty of things we had forget and not necessarily tied to this life.

I remember seeing nurses sweeping out a bunch of dark silhouettes from myself after some session of eiriu eolas and prayer, so i wonder if we benefit from the facilities of the 5D plane while on earth ? (sorry if this has been answered, I'm too slow/impatient to put my thoughts before finishing reading).

Seeing the fact that everyone see your deepest darkest thought is also helping in alleviating things under the rug or things that we are too much attached or do not know how to release, I think it's especially true for sexual fantasies...

I felt lately the need to remember the "birth vision" as said in The Celestine Prophecy, and had some energetic surges and fears that I was wasting my life in stagnation mode now because of heavy mist-hidden unnecessary desires toward materiality, it's very interesting to see the analogy of the snake's inner skin going out after death, concluding that it's no use hidding our shame or ourselves because in the end it will be revealed.

 

[thorbiorn]

Among Christian churches especially the Orthodox and the Catholic traditions the remembering of the departed has a place in the calendar. I knew before the post that the tradition of remembering the deceased was stronger in the Eastern Church, but when I looked up the details I was still surprised. Below I describe and quote sources that describe first the Catholic and then the Orthodox church
Remembering the departed in the Catholic Christian tradition
November 2nd is All Souls' Day dedicated to remembering the departed souls which is preceded by All Saints' Day on November 1st. On the Youtube channel of Catholic Online, they have a transcription of the content in their short video about All Souls' Day, which says:

According to Catholic belief, the soul of a person who dies can go to one of three places. The first is heaven, where a person who dies in a state of perfect grace and communion with God goes. The second is hell, where those who die in a state of mortal sin are naturally condemned by their choice. The intermediate option is purgatory, which is thought to be where most people, free of mortal sin, but still in a state of lesser (venial) sin, must go. Purgatory is necessary so that souls can be cleansed and perfected before they enter into heaven. There is scriptural basis for this belief. The primary reference is in 2 Maccabees, 12:26 and 12:32. "Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out... Thus made atonement for the dead that they might be free from sin." Additional references are found in Zechariah, Sirach, and the Gospel of Matthew.- Jewish tradition also reinforces this belief as well as the tradition and teaching of the Church, which has been affirmed throughout history.

They also explain that many Protestant churches do not celebrate All Souls' Day. Martin Luther, the heretic, rebel, or reformer of the Catholic Church took issue with the custom of selling indulgences, so that either one self or others that one paid for, would get a faster track to heaven. As reasonable as a discussion of that practice may have been, Luther went much further than that, and when he translated the Bible into German he left out some books, the apokrypha, recognized by the Catholic and the Orthodox, one of which is the previously mentioned 2nd Maccabees, that gives a description of praying for the dead to ease their passage to the afterlife.

The tradition in the Catholic Church has changed with time: On Should Catholics Observe Halloween? - Catholic Stand there was:

The Origins of All Saints Day
Originally, the earliest form of All Saints Day was celebrated on May 13. As it has been since the 300’s, this is still the case in some Eastern Churches. Initially, only the martyrs were commemorated, but by 741, all of the saints were included.

It wasn’t until the year 844 that Pope Gregory III transferred the Feast Day to November 1st. This was the year he consecrated a chapel in St. Peter’s Basilica to All Saints. This should put to rest the theory that the date of All Saints Day was fixed because of the harvest festival of the Irish pagans.

All Souls Day originated with the Bishop of Cluny, who in A.D. 1048, decreed that the Benedictines of Cluny pray for the souls in Purgatory on this day. The practice further spread until it was recommended for the entire Latin Church by Pope Sylvester II.

Below are some links to pages that give an idea of the tradition of remembering and praying for the dead in the Catholic tradition:

Masses for the Dead - Readings from the Old Testament

From the Lectionary for Mass, no. 1011During Easter Time, the First Reading is instead selected from among certain New Testament Readings.2 Maccabees 12:43-4...

www.usccb.org

Prayers for Death and Dying

"The Christian meaning of death is revealed in the light of the Paschal Mystery of the Death and Resurrection of Christ in whom resides our only hope. The Ch...

www.usccb.org

‘Remember Me’ – Should Catholics talk to their dead loved ones? | Catholic Herald

In the 2017 Disney-Pixar movie “Coco,” the main character, Miguel, accidentally passes over into the land of the dead on Dia De Los Muertos (Day of the Dead) while trying to reconcile his love of…

catholicherald.co.uk

Prayers for the Deceased: For Loved Ones and the Clergy

These prayers for the deceased include those for our departed parents, friends, and priests, to reach heaven as soon as possible!

www.ourcatholicprayers.com

What Does the Bible Say About Memory After Death?

Bible verses about Memory After Death

www.openbible.info

What Does the Bible Say About Our Deceased Loved Ones?

Bible verses about Our Deceased Loved Ones

www.openbible.info

Remembering the departed in the Russian Orthodox Church
It is true that there are several Orthodox Churches; this should at least serve as an example.
Hieromonk Job (Gumerov). Why are the Dead Commemorated on Saturdays? has:

The Saturdays of commemorations of the dead are called ancestral Saturdays (the first universal commemoration on Meat Fare Saturday, the second, third, and fourth Saturdays of Great Lent, Trinity Saturday, and St. Demetrius Saturday). Why do these take place specifically on Saturdays? What are the historical roots of this tradition? They were not all instituted at the same time.

[...]
St. Demetrius Saturday is celebrated on the nearest Saturday before the commemoration day of Great Martyr Demetrius of Thessalonka (October 26/November 8). This Saturday commemoration was established in the Russian Church after the battle of Kulikovo[1] (September 8, 1380), with the blessing of St. Sergius of Radonezh. At first, commemorations were served for all soldiers who fell in that battle. Eventually, St. Demetrius Saturday came to be a day when all reposed Orthodox Christians are commemorated.

For more Russian Orthodox perspectives:
SATURDAY OF THE COMMEMORATION OF THE DEAD
Looking up "memorial saturday orthodox church" there was:
Memorial service in the Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia :

Traditionally, in addition to the service on the day of death, the memorial service is performed at the request of the relatives of an individual departed person on the following occasions:

• Third day after death[note 6]
• Ninth day
• Fortieth day
• Three months
• Six months
• First anniversary of death
• Third anniversary (some will request a memorial every year on the anniversary of death)

It is also served on the numerous Soul Saturdays throughout the year.[note 7] On these days, not only is the memorial service served, but there are also special propers at Vespers, Matins, and the Divine Liturgy.

The above excerpts and links show that the departed ancestors have a more prominent place in the Orthodox Church, time is allowed for the transition and the links to be honoured.

 

[Ina]

’The above excerpts and links show that the departed ancestors have a more prominent place in the Orthodox Church, time is allowed for the transition and the links to be honored .’
Indeed, the funeral and mourning in Romanian orthodox tradition are elaborate undertakings, everything being done for the soul of the deceased. Interestingly enough while in Guinea, talking about the funeral customs I found out that the muslims were keeping similar traditions, the three day, ten days, twenty days and forty days proceedings.

 

[hlat]

I watched the Disney cartoon movie Coco with the kids. It can be a useful tool to discussing life after death, souls, and even soul smashing.

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

I was surprised today by a video of a Spiritist, Dr. Paulo Cesar Fructuoso, a surgeon and oncologist, who spoke before the Brazilian senate earlier this month in honor of Doctors' Day.

I'll make brief comments to contextualize how I see these matters in the country and quote a small part of his speech. Sorry if it is only tangentially relevant.

Brazil is mostly Christian (almost 90% with a majority of Catholics) but there are myriad small religions that pop up everywhere and folk healers (curandeiros) are still a thing in the countryside. Kardecist Spiritism (Espíritas) has a significant following, official numbers say 2% of the population (4 million people) and it is said to be the largest in the world in absolute numbers. Among those with higher education, Spiritism seems to attract a good number of medical doctors, I suppose because of the healing aspect that prevails in some channeled material.

Brazilians seem to have a more fluid relation with religion than the impression I get from the US and Europe. You can be nominally Catholic but you may also go to a Kardecist church, a Bhuddist temple or even a Candomblé or Umbanda terreiro, and some do so regularly. The acceptance of such practice varies, but it seems quite common nonetheless.

On a personal side note, not long ago I got tempted to go to Umbanda as I found out a cousin of mine is a medium and has been on service regularly for a few years. I've talked to him but so far I've been satisfied with reading about it. I find the phenomenon immensely interesting but there were some red flags that I couldn't get past.

Spiritism is widely known throughout the country due in large part to Chico Xavier (1910-2002), who is by far, so very far, the most famous Brazilian medium. He was interviewed multiple times on TV in the 1970s and got huge audience. He is said to have channeled over 450 books and is highly honored by Spiritists, some even consider him a reincarnation of Kardec. The editorial market around mediumship seems quite large and growing.

So, although nominal Spiritists are just 2%, many more people are interested in these matters and read channeled books or related material. And some, even not considering themselves Spiritists, go to Kardecist churchs or one of their many offshoots.

However, I had never seen a Spiritist invited to speak in any sphere of government, much less before the Senate. At the end of his speech, Dr. Fructuoso showed a picture of a aledged materialized spirit and another of supposedly ectoplasm coming out of a medium's mouth and ears. Ectoplasm... in the Senate?! I like it but it's just so weird.

Which findings were obtained mainly in dialogues with doctors who have already lived in this world, have died or
disincarnated, and then teleported or materialized in these meetings? Of course they now inhabit other planes of existence where we will ourselves be transported to when the time comes. What were these findings?

We are all immortal beings.

Second, what we call the physical body is in fact a transitory vehicle which we need to interact with this universe. Life, however, is not in the matter that we value so much. [Life] is transmitted by the extraphysical, immaterial, energetic and immortal component, called soul or spirit.

Thirdly, this is not the first time we have arrived here, nor will this be the last. Reincarnation is a consolidated truth. No one will be able to see the kingdom of God if not born again. We can return to any nation, race, government regime, family, profession, religion or sex.

All these truths will be sooner or later proven by our science, ending the motivations that lead to wars, disagreements and intolerance of all sort.

Our medical equipment already uses antimatter in the scrutiny of human bodies {{elsewhere he links this comment to PET-Scans}} and are quickly advancing in detecting the survival and immortality of the soul. In the face of such a finding why invest for example in the trade of weapons since there is no such thing as death.

Fourth. Our evolution is accompanied and watched over by a immaterial and spiritual government commanded by a planetary Christ for 5 billion years. His name? Jesus. {{Ra's Logoi?}}

Fifth. We're not occupying the places that we are, as ruler, doctors, representatives of the people, men of the law, of the arts, of science, fathers and mothers or any other activity by mere chance. Chance doesn't exist.

Sixth. Many of the diseases that affect us do not have their origin in the physical bodies but in the extraphysical spiritual component where we store the impurities generated by vices of any kind and bad compliance of duties to others, in this and in past lives, and that in this way externalize through diseases such as cancer.

...
While we take care of the material bodies of our patients, colleagues from universes parallel to our own take care of their extraphysical component and mentally [send us intuition] on what attitude to take. Such is their humility that they do not even allow us to perceive their help, leaving the glory of victory over diseases entirely on our shoulders. But I dare say that without this imponderable help to our poor five senses, much of the success we have achieved in the treatment of diseases would not have been achieved. {{I've seen similar accounts in NDE stories}}

On the left is a aledged materialized spirit, formerly a doctor in the German army in WWII.
On the right is a German Franciscan priest who came to Brazil and after dying was channeled by a Brazilian medium in 1947. Inspired and instructed by the priest's spirit, the medium built a charity home for poor kids, Lar de Frei Luiz. As far as I understood this is where Dr. Fructuoso's seances took place and where the pictures where taken.


Supposedly ectoplasm coming out of a medium's mouth and ears while in a trance state.

 

[PERLOU]

Votre message me fait penser à Maguy Lebrun avec qui j'ai travaillé, il y a de nombreuses années, le titre de son livre "Médecins du Ciel, Médecins de la Terre"...

Amazon.fr

Your message reminds me of Maguy Lebrun with whom I worked many years ago with the title of his book "Médecins du Ciel, Médecins de la Terre"...

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Your message reminds me of Maguy Lebrun with whom I worked many years ago with the title of his book "Médecins du Ciel, Médecins de la Terre"...

I had never heard of her. I found an extensive interview in a Brazilian spiritist newspaper from 1988, the headline reads "Can collective prayer work miracles?" (PDF). There should be a French version somewhere as it is a translation and the journalist is named Marie Thérèse de Brosses. Some more info, including short quotes from the book, in this page in French (google translated).

What was it like working with her? Any interesting stories?

 

[PERLOU]

Je faisais partie du groupe de Paris à l'époque il y a plus de 30 ans, nous nous connections par la pensée à 20h30 et prions sur une musique pour aider ceux qui en avait besoin... Nous avons participé au dernier colloque de Maguy Lebrun en France, c'était vers Grenoble, nous y avons passé 2 jours, nous y étions allées avec ma fille Nadège, en car de Paris... Nous étions nombreux, cela faisais du bien... Nous y avons rencontré Françoise Hardy qui comme vous le savez à été très souffrante dernièrement et quand elle disait que des groupes de prières l'avaient aidée et que sa guérison était miraculeuse, elle devait penser aux groupes de Maguy Lebrun... Je crois savoir qu'elle est à nouveau souffrante...

I was part of the Paris group at the time more than 30 years ago, we connect by thought at 8:30 pm and pray to music to help those who needed it... We participated in the last Maguy Lebrun conference in France, it was towards Grenoble, we spent 2 days there, we had gone there with my daughter Nadège, by bus from Paris... There were many of us, it felt good... We met Françoise Hardy who, as you know, has been very ill lately and when she said that prayer groups had helped her and that her healing was miraculous, she had to think of Maguy Lebrun's groups... I understand she's suffering again....

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

 

[genero81]

I watched the Disney cartoon movie Coco with the kids. It can be a useful tool to discussing life after death, souls, and even soul smashing.

Great movie!

 

[Windmill knight]

I watched the Disney cartoon movie Coco with the kids. It can be a useful tool to discussing life after death, souls, and even soul smashing.

Great movie!

I agree, I loved it! It's a deep and serious topic - it puts back on the table the afterlife and the value of remembering our ancestors - yet it's treated in a fun way for children. It's also very touching - I watched it twice already and both times I had a hard time holding the tears!

 

[Ennio]

This very compelling subject was the focus of our most recent MindMatters show. (Unfortunately, some of the audio cuts out towards the beginning of the show, but does get soon improved.)

MindMatters: The Reality and Implications of an Afterlife

While materialist scientists and academics dismiss the possibility out of hand, there is not only an extensive amount of research suggesting the validity of reincarnation, near-death out-of-body experiences, and the like - but also much more to the reality of an afterlife than many people assume. Through automatic writing and the use of mediumship there exists a whole body of literature that presents such a world to us. While perhaps impossible to prove the validity of this material, it is worth taking a look at it.

This week on MindMatters we examine some of texts that make the case for what life after death might look like, what functions the 'place' serves, what people do there, and how beings on that plane of existence seem to be acutely aware of the challenges and struggles of those who live and breathe in our 'land of the living'. We'll also be discussing the implications of this information and what it might possibly mean for the choices we make, and how we live our lives in the here and now.

 

[3DStudent]

This very compelling subject was the focus of our most recent MindMatters show.

I listened to it this morning and thought it was great and thought provoking. The idea of thinking about your fantasies while alive now so that you don't have to get stuck in a self created illusion in the afterlife was practical and interesting. Sort of like what you obsess about and dwell on now might be a good idea to get to the root of and resolve so you don't carry it over.

There were some other gems and I want to give it another listen. Thanks for the show!

 

[Voyageur]

After watching the video that Oxajil posted above I found this interview with a Welsh researcher:

{video}

I think she is an example of a scientist who uses her research into near-death to alleviate suffering. She mentions a case where she talked about her research to a lady who was afraid of dying, it helped the patient a lot. She also mentions her dying grand-father with whom she had long conversations about her research and who died peacefully.

Apparently, some people die in spiritual distress, when things are left unsaid and it is mistaken for physical pain, according to Penny Sartori. But I think people who are dying and still don't know anything about the afterlife being very scared must be in spiritual distress too.

Not sure if you caught the part of the elder man with his NDE experience as this medical researcher, Dr. Penny Sartori, mentioned. Penny said in her questions to this man that one question was misinterpreted by him (the question was about where did you go (a place), as some NDE's seem to pick a familiar place and go there). He said, look, I can fully open my hand and showed her. The significance of this is that the man had cerebral palsy whereby his hand had been clinched in a fist as many with this condition exhibit - atrophied in that way. Penny at first missed this and the sudden awareness of it was indeed remarkable. Specialists were puzzled without answer. Like so many things (and other examples from other posts), it is worth pondering.

Penny gets into 'hellish' experiences, yet there is nothing definitive, although letting go of ego and control may contribute or not.

Yes, as you mention, Penny speaks of the vital importance (like a gift maybe) of families and the one dying to be more open in conversations about death. I've had two grandparents openly discuss their death with me and they left quickly and peacefully, and others have not talked - including distress in the family itself. This is something to remember, osit.

Here is Penny's website and a short film.

Dr Penny Sartori worked as a nurse in a British hospital for 21 years, 17 of those being in Intensive Care. She is highly experienced and skilled in her role as an intensive care staff nurse; and has conducted unique and extensive research into the near-death experiences (NDEs) of her patients. In 2005 she was awarded a PhD for her research into NDEs.

Great talk.

One man decided he wanted to cheer up the his family and friends at his own funeral:

Great, a little afterlife 'shock' and levity for his friends and family to ease the tension.

 

[Voyageur]

He said, look, I can fully open my hand and showed her.

This is not exactly NDE, odd maybe - or more so coincidental in a way, that came up with this subject today after listening to Penny last night. Tonight my partner and I were talking, and I mentioned this to her, about this man who Penny recounts in detail that had suffered cerebral palsy and had an NDE. Told her in detail about his hands. She was stunned and I did not know why. She then describes the afternoon she spent with a man suffering serious cerebral palsy who's hands were always clenched (she has seen him off and on for a few years) - and he never ever lets her work on his hands. Yet today, he insisted, his clenched fists came up, and she then mimicked just how clenched they were, which were like tight balls - and as she worked them he started slowly opening them after she started hitting various points; and he is like looking at them and smiling and moving his fingers like a brand new experience. This man cannot speak with words, and yet she said he was speaking in volumes of expression and joy. At the time she did not connect it to anything (and to her knowlage there is nothing NDE about him from the past) until hearing about Penny's patient.

Anyway, perhaps there is a form of pattern recognition here that just happens to involve two somewhat interlinked stories - one from Penny last night and this from today. Life is like that sometimes, yet thought to mention it.