Does anticipating something reduce its probability?

[Harmony99]

Been thinking about all this lately because no matter how hard I try, I can't shake the feeling/observation that there is something to the idea that anticipation somehow influences outcomes. Yes, it's partly a psychological issue on how to deal with the world effectively, but the Cs also said it's important who you are (i.e. what you do), and also what you see! This seems to imply that the act of seeing, of observing itself might be important. And perhaps this doesn't only mean seeing/observing in the sense of paying attention to what's going on in the world, but also what we see in the future, how we deal with possibilities and whether we are emotionally attached to certain outcomes. After all, the Cs also said we shouldn't anticipate.

It almost seems as if the universe kind of adapts to our internal states in a sense, as if it cosntantly tried to teach us a lesson about non-anticipation if we get too emotionally attached to outcomes or we anticipate too much (and lower our field of vision that way). And boom - the opposite or something unexpected happens which forces our awareness out of our little anticipation bubble. It's kind of New Age "create your own reality" turned upside down: you do create your own reality, but you get the exact opposite of what your lower desires want!

The knowledge and awareness of Anticipation and expectation is of great importance in navigating our way on this treacherous journey.I am fully armed with my notes from this thread to continue my study and application of being patience and and non anticipatory. Thanks guys for putting this together.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Good thoughts about the topic. it made me think how there are studies (for example Dean Radin's work) showing how our minds can have small statistical effect to the outcome of dice roll.

It suggests that consciousness interacts non-physically with the reality and our anticipation can influence the outcome. So when people expect the dice roll to have for example high or low number, there is proof that this actually works, the odds will increase (though very slightly).

But the reality is much more complex than a simple dice, so this type of anticipation is not very practical or useful. And it seems to be connected to STS mode of being.

The things we most anticipate are not neutral events but instead are connected to our deepest desires and wishes. Basically how we would like the reality to unfold based on pretty much selfish ideas and unrealistic expectations.

This again limits heavily our free will and possible choices, since we're not the only variable in the universe - that's probably why anticipation often backfires and has the opposite outcome as intended.

And not only at the personal level: just look how the the US makes blunder after blunder in the geopolitical domain.

 

[Gwenllian]

Parents are always worried about their children. They always want to protect them. It is a normal thing.
When children go somewhere for the first time or is doing something new parents and especially mothers think that something bad will happen to them.
For example, if a child is going in water during summer and parent is not with him, his mother will be upset all the time that he could drown in the water. She is anticipating this and she is involving her emotions at this, she is afraid, worried.
Maybe by anticipating this unwanting outcome, she is actually making more difficult that to happen, she is protecting her child.

Indeed, I can see these worries about my children in myself and I certainly envisage bad scenarios on a regular basis, but at the same I am trying to give them some practical advice so they can learn how to protect themselves and pay attention to their surroundings. Sometimes I check by asking whether their lights on their bikes are still working and so on. Or I ask whether they have heard this strange noise that the central heating system is making and then see what the problem is. In short, give them tools and knowledge so they can navigate and avoid possible dangers (hopefully). And sometimes I learn a thing or two from them!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Good thoughts about the topic. it made me think how there are studies (for example Dean Radin's work) showing how our minds can have small statistical effect to the outcome of dice roll.

It suggests that consciousness interacts non-physically with the reality and our anticipation can influence the outcome. So when people expect the dice roll to have for example high or low number, there is proof that this actually works, the odds will increase (though very slightly).

But the reality is much more complex than a simple dice, so this type of anticipation is not very practical or useful. And it seems to be connected to STS mode of being.

I'm not sure this is quite correct. It's not so much the expectation that produces the psi effect in studies like that. One of the best replicated correlations with good scoring is simply a belief that psi is real or possible. And it doesn't even need to be a stable belief - researchers can set up an experiment to produce that belief or feeling in the moment. (A person with a relatively stable disbelief can be influenced to be more open to it in the right conditions, just as a person who generally believes can be influenced to disbelieve.)

Actually believing that you can affect outcomes or guess cards (e.g., believing you're especially psychic) tends to have a negative effect on scoring, which confirms the idea that anticipation reduces probability of getting 'hits'. Carpenter goes through all these studies in his book 'First Sight' (see this thread). The best state of mind for getting good results could accurately be described as a state of open, relaxed non-anticipation. If you're putting in cognitive effort and are anxious, chances are you won't get good results.

The things we most anticipate are not neutral events but instead are connected to our deepest desires and wishes. Basically how we would like the reality to unfold based on pretty much selfish ideas and unrealistic expectations.

Yep, and I think perhaps that's why parapsychological results are so small, even if highly significant. Guessing a card or influencing the roll of a dice is not that important or relevant to most people. Rather, the same dynamic or process would be most extreme in events that are highly personally significant. But like you say, the fact that we anticipate outcomes in this sphere of our lives might actually make us less likely to bring them into reality.

This again limits heavily our free will and possible choices, since we're not the only variable in the universe - that's probably why anticipation often backfires and has the opposite outcome as intended.

And not only at the personal level: just look how the the US makes blunder after blunder in the geopolitical domain.

Yep, and I think there's another aspect too. When we anticipate a specific result, we are essentially denying nature, or objective reality. The future is OPEN. When we lock onto a desired outcome, we're basically denying the open nature of the universe. We are not acting in accordance with nature. And our deepest unconscious aims seem to point us in the direction of nature and objective reality - that's what we're designed for. What that means is that when we try to force reality into our own image - instead of learning the way reality actually works and how to navigate within it - then reality will send us a message that we're doing something wrong. Basically, what we're doing won't work and we won't get the outcome we wanted. We'll get signs and 'billboards falling on our heads'.

I think this is why the technique Laura described (was it in the K&B videos? can't remember!) works. If you're looking for the perfect house, you don't imagine all the exact features of the perfect house and then wish to get it. You focus on the overall emotional form that finding the house will take and leave the details open to the universe/unconscious/whatever. By saying, "I want a green house that's 10 years old with 3000 square feet, a well 20 meters from the house, 4 bedrooms, etc." you are closing off all kinds of possibilities and trying to dictate outcomes. But by focusing on the emotions - e.g., the feeling of telling your loved ones, "I can't believe we found the perfect house!" - you are basically creating a path towards finding the best fit, regardless of all your specific desires. The universe is smarter than you are, as is your unconscious. And by making sure not to anticipate and shut down possibilities, you are acting in accordance with nature: the capacity of the mind and the world around you to work together to find the best option among numerous possibilities.

I think the emotional aspect is very important. By specifying a house with all those features, you are basically limiting your options to 1 or even 0 possibilities. What are the chances of finding a perfect match? And even if that match exists, what are the chances it will be available? But by focusing on the emotion of finding the 'best fit' - there are probably several options that would fit the bill, even if you can't imagine them in detail. In fact, you WON'T be able to imagine all the details, because the world is complex. Plus, the specific features aren't necessarily the most important. They're mostly superficial. What really MATTERS is the emotional aspect, which is meaningful in nature. Our unconscious is guided towards meaning and relevance. So by focusing on what is really meaningful - emotional significance - perhaps that is how we can really make our dreams reality. The universe can work with that. It can't work with demands.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

The universe is smarter than you are, as is your unconscious. And by making sure not to anticipate and shut down possibilities, you are acting in accordance with nature: the capacity of the mind and the world around you to work together to find the best option among numerous possibilities.

Hi Approaching Infinity,

Your sentiment reminded of me of the 'C's intriguing;

A: Laura, my dear, if you really want to reveal "many beautiful and amazing things," all you need to do is remember the triad, the trilogy, the trinity, and look always for the triplicative connecting clue profile. Connect the threes... do not rest until you have found three beautifully balancing meanings!!

Q: So, in everything there are three aspects?

A: And why? Because it is the realm of the three that you occupy. In order to possess the keys to the next level, just master the Third Man Theme, then move on with grace and anticipation.

Something profound in there I suspect?

Cheers

J

 

[jhonny]

The things we most anticipate are not neutral events but instead are connected to our deepest desires and wishes. Basically how we would like the reality to unfold based on pretty much selfish ideas and unrealistic expectations.

Problem is, the deepest desires and wishes are mostly associated with material things, and that could make us think in a hedonistic way. Also, the outcomes of the anticipation in any other fields are rather bad. For instance, ‘new age’ groups are full of people having unrealistic expectations based on that anticipation anxious state.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Actually believing that you can affect outcomes or guess cards (e.g., believing you're especially psychic) tends to have a negative effect on scoring, which confirms the idea that anticipation reduces probability of getting 'hits'. Carpenter goes through all these studies in his book 'First Sight' (see this thread). The best state of mind for getting good results could accurately be described as a state of open, relaxed non-anticipation. If you're putting in cognitive effort and are anxious, chances are you won't get good results.

Thanks for clarification, that makes more sense!

 

[Jono]

Thanks all for these posts. I've been playing around with practicing non-anticipation and imagining negative outcomes but have realised I was only doing so to try and get the opposite or desired outcome - basically an attempt to get my own way.

For me it makes much more sense to use the happy go lucky attitude to neutralise this sort of thought process and have faith things will work out in a way that's best for learning and growth. It also seems to enable a more stoic control of my thoughts and feelings.

 

[Chu]

Recently I've been thinking about the problem of anticipation in the following way: Think of a tree, just any tree. For example:

Imagine that the tree is your life, with many possible futures, different branches also involving your loved ones, your potential, everything. You are close to the trunk, in one of the bottom branches. The outcome you want is, say, where the orange butterfly on the left is. If you focus ONLY on that, the tree will grow crooked, will lose balance, and either be decrepit or die, or make others suffer from your stupidity. That could be your life. Something like this:



I don't think anyone wants that, except that often wishful thinking enters the equation, and one assumes that everything will be fine anyway. It never happens.

If instead, you focus on all the roots, the trunk, the branches and leaves at the bottom, to create a harmonious tree on a more solid base, step by step, and regardless of the final outcome, you will be closer to your aims. Each step of the process is important, and connected to the rest of the tree.

If at the end of your life you can look back and say that you created a nice tree, and got closer to the butterfly even if the Universe decided you weren't ready for it yet or whatever, then it's not bad.

It doesn't necessarily mean that you stop hoping, or wishing for something. It is rather that while you need to sometimes make "plans", or have steps clear in your head, discipline and suffer in one way or another, you understand that you never have the whole picture (we are strangers to ourselves, after all), and it is not up to you to determine the outcome or avoid steps, but you can make a concerted effort to appreciate the process, life in general, and work towards a higher goal, always remembering you are in one tiny branch of the tree. What you do in life will help determine the whole shape of the tree, but other factors will be involved in deciding which branch you ultimately "land" on. So, there is no point in anticipating the outcome. All we can do is act to the best of our ability and knowledge. The rest is not up to us decide.

Well, something like that anyway! Life is also "irreducibly complex", so you never know what your path from A to B will be like precisely, or even if in the end, you are meant to go from A to C (say, the birdie in the tree above, which may be even better if you don't limit the possibilities with your own blindness and stubbornness). So, do your best, stick to your values, nourish the tree, and don't expect it to turn out to be a specific shape.

That means that whatever the "wish" is, you need to work on multiple areas at a time, so that the tree is balanced. Becoming a better person, for example, is not just doing a good deed for one single person, for example. It is learning to give and receive in healthier ways, without agendas or ideas of a recompense. It is being patient, understanding, responsible, and much more. It is learning and working hard, so that you have something to offer to others. You cannot just decide to do just one thing and forget the rest of the "tree". If you have faith that the Universe knows what its doing, then it makes sense that if YOU limit the options and constrict the flow, you are not going to get what you want. Because it is precisely that, a "want", an expectation, entitlement. It isn't seeing reality left and right and acting accordingly. It isn't "becoming a conduit for the Universe", but rather arrongantly telling the Universe that you know better. That can never work. OSIT.

 

[JeanneT]

I just love this thread! There is so much in here that applies to navigating life and also, for me, brings up something that I have noticed for awhile but didn't really know where to ask the question. Here it is..
I have noticed that every time I read the Daily Reading for evening..."Assurance of protection via knowledge and awareness" from the booklet we received with the crystals, there is a section that prompts a physical reaction in me that I equate with feeling fear. My stomach turns to butterflies for a moment in the phrase..."You will only look with your eyes and see the fate of the ignorant and unaware". At that point, something comes up in me that I feel could negate the purpose of the whole prayer. I don't know if I feel guilt for knowing some may stay behind or if I feel I need to rescue or if I feel it may be me who is among the "ignorant and unaware" or all of it.
Whatever the reason, I feel it is a form of anticipation and comes from my subconscious as opposed to my reason or mind. My mind and logic is fully aware of and believes in the freedom of learning, choice and proceeding at one's own pace, the non-judgement in all of this as well as a seeming paradox on this density of learning.

In my experience, anticipation seems to breed an energy that holds a picture in the mind as well as some emotion attached to it even in its most subtle form. It seems that this combo can create or manifest if given enough juice. But do I want what it brings? It seems to be a gamble at the very least and most probably, comes with some garbage. On the other hand, I can remember some times in my life where the opposite approach happened, more by accident but it was clear then that something positive had been created. Non-anticipation, or an immediate kind of "dropping down" or collapsing of the energy in a clean way following an intention or thought resulted in a change in energy and outcome. There is a space, between the intention or noticing where I believe I have witnessed miracles. There is no desire or directing of the energy there...a letting go. This is the place I go when doing Reiki as well. It seems to have its own intelligence so I let go of directing it entirely.

So, I guess I am saying that I know the feeling of both...anticipation and non-anticipation and the how the effects of both appear in our physical world. Maybe, in writing this out, I have answered my own question regarding the section of the prayer. Perhaps working on dropping down and not picturing any kind of agenda at this point in the prayer will help. Any suggestions? I am still feeling a bit blocked on this.

 

[Jones]

If the aim is awareness, then I wonder if anticipation actually hinders the degree of awareness.

For example, lets say total awareness is represented by the number 100. If you are anticipating an outcome that is heavily invested in, then part of awareness is focused on that outcome - lets say 40 percent. Then if you are engaging in a task, and some of your awareness is focussed on the details on that task, say another 40 percent. That leaves 20 percent for internal and external observation for the detection of subtle shifts or changes - so 10 percent each. With that low degree of internal and environmental awareness, crucial clues might be missed.

So it's one thing to know that taking certain steps have a high probability of delivering a certain outcome, then just letting go of anticipation so that proportion of awareness can be used for internal and external observation moment by moment, and another to have a high degree of emotional investment or focus on a particular outcome.

Edited to add:

One of the trainers that I learnt a lot from in dog training used to say something like 'To the outsider it looks like magic because they can't see how you got the dog to do what it did. But once you show them and they learn to see, the magic is gone.' Basically what he taught was to learn to recognise very subtle shifts in the dogs body language that happened very early in a behavioural sequence and respond to that in the moment that the shift was happening. At that time, quite often the response to the dog might only need to be very subtle as well. But if I were working with an aggressive dog, for example and I was wound up, anxious or frightened about the possibility of the dog aggressing, I could lose the ability to detect the subtle shifts in the dogs body language early in the behavioural sequence and lose the ability to respond to them in a timely fashion.

 

[Menna]

Hi luc,

I don't have the answers, It's difficult in our STS mode to set out a Nonanticipatory future because we are used to first consider how it serves us.

I think there is nothing wrong with expecting certain outcomes and working towards that based on love and knowledge. But how good do we know ourselves to actually put that into practice? Self-serving anticipation perverts our expections into our own STS desires.

If we intent to be good STO candidates, at some point it shouldn't dominate us anymore. OSIT.

But keep in mind that non-anticipation involves leaving Free-Will intact. STS does not determine the needs of others. Only STO can, while respecting Free-Will.


[quote author= luc]So, do you think anticipating a specific outcome reduces the probability that it will actually happen?

I don't know, but it certainly will restrict the flow of creative energy? Can we divide anticipation up into: I desire this for myself, and.. This is the best outcome based on love and knowledge? (STO)


Thanks for bringing this subject up. The C's already told us about envisioning a better world. For that you need to have pure intent, (open to all possibilities) be Non-anticipatory, so that we open all channels of Creativity. Envision a better world because it is right, based on knowledge and conscience. Not because it feels good, not because it serves you. While leaving Free Will intact. OSIT.
[/QUOTE]

I believe the dynamic here is that by anticipating and not being objectively open you anticipate in a certain way and thus see in a certain way this closes you off to all possibilities

 

[IncenDiary]

Anticipating, wanting something to happen, has always been very bad news for me. When I was younger, I joked to myself that if I had thought of it, then it definitely wouldn't happen! The best things in my life came from behind me, that place you are least able to look at or see from. And if I had tried to, I would have disrupted and skewed the result.

I am not definitely not where I wanted to be, that's for sure, and thinking about where else I could be with different decisions does not get me to any better places, maybe I'm financially better but I wouldn't have learned how poor people live and what wisdom and lessons come commensurately from that, and I definitely wouldn't want to share as much, maybe I would actually poor people deserve it, etc like most rich people do. Crazy, deeply imbedded lies I needed rid of.

In fact, if I concentrate and try to win, it makes the loss sometimes quite amazing, like the kind of loss that is one in a million, truly bad, never mind winning, ROFL!! Sometimes I amaze myself. Other times, totally not thinking at all, just trusting to fate or the universe or whatever, and the most amazing wins you have ever seen, like throwing a basketball shot from the other teams side and getting a hole in one in golf! Very weird, but strangely true. Mostly it is just like a good shot, and i can try replicate it if I attempt not to think about it, but Quick: Don't Think Of An Elephant! It's hard. Normal losses ensue with a random win when I really need it.

Fear plays a big part since without fear, it never occurs to me to anticipate at all. Anticipation is a form of fear and control, I believe, as you fear the lack of control. You desire a highly specific outcome and fear rushes in to fill in the blanks of the unknown and positively feedback upon itself, creating that strange crazed urgency in people's eyes, wow never a worse outcome after that... Having faith in something, anything, beyond yourself helps mitigate fear. Having people around you, also helps mitigate that fear. Having a like(ish)-minded community of people with similar beliefs, or even better different beliefs but who are still willing to talk to you, helps the best to remove fear.

Then it just matters what you now do with your non-anticipatory beliefs and friends :P

 

[gottathink]

This is a great thread so relevant to the latest Cs session so thanks for starting it Luc.

My thoughts (this has come up with something @Artemis sent to me regarding an astrology reading) are that reality is actually never fully determined but always a net sum of processes. Everything is never really real, rather it is a result of all the inputs that have coalesced into it’s current state and the DCM processes all the input. Everything is just ‘in a state’ and anticipation anchors something down which kills the process, i.e it is no longer in a state of process thus ceases to exist.
I’m not quite sure I’m explaining this or if I fully comprehend what I’m saying. It’s similar to @Chu’s description of a tree of life. But it seems to me we have to contribute our ideas to our desired reality, if we expect something to happen it’s like we grasp for it and end up choking it to death.

 

[Asa]

Just thought I'd share a personal anecdote that is relevant. At the end of last year and the beginning of this year, my partner and I decided to look for a house to buy in Bulgaria (I am English, she is Bulgarian). As a prep for the mayhem we (i.e this forum) expect in the future, I preferred a house in the mountains. On the other hand, my partner preferred a house in a village close to the city she is from and where her family live. We also discussed it with her parents, and decided we would cooperate and try to find some land to grow crops and raise animals. This part was to be organized by her parents as they have skills that I lack completely and my partner knows a little about. My part was to provide the money from my UK business. There were general discussions, with an agreement to cooperate and work together. We also wanted to build a small home for her parents to give them a break from what is an intense environment in the Bulgarian ghetto they live in (I've learned to appreciate being there and enjoying the welcome, and not being a prima donna when there are five us staying in a three room flat. But its a tough environment, no two ways about it)

First hurdle we had to overcome was to find a way for me to own land in Bulgaria - there are restrictions on non EU foreigners in Bulgaria. Our solution was to set up a business with me as owner, with the initial thought being that it would just be a vehicle to complete a purchase. But we had some discussions and decided it would be nice to set up an auto-service workshop, as her father is a skilled mechanic (and can also fix tanks...lol - its been an eye opening experience spending time with working class Balkan people, as a relatively spoilt Westerner...)

Another thing I had to learn in this process was to trust my partner and her family. My Bulgarian is slim to non-existent, I don't know the country very well, and to be honest Bulgaria is to a certain extent 'bandit country' lol. I had lost a house, car and child with an ex and so I had major trust issues to put it mildly. I will not pretend that this was easy - it was not. I was at times paranoid, and convinced I would be ripped off etc. But I fought through this as best I could and tried to conceal these emotions from my partners family and my partner, although at times I obviously failed.

Anyway, the very first house we viewed was:

1) on 2000 sq mtr of land, with fruit trees, nut trees, grapes and, in her fathers opinion, enough space to grow plants and raise animals. Neglected and needs lots of work;
2) had a spacious 'hunting lodge' style house built by the hand of the original owner in the traditional Bulgarian style. Bit run down and needing plenty of work
3) Had a triple garage - perfect for an autoservice workshop. Again, run down but perfect platform
4) In the corner of the plot, is the remains of a small house which was struck by lightning (!), but has the foundations in place for another small home. Perfect for our plan to build for her parents.
5) The city has 'small mountains' about a 20 min drive away. Its about 650 mtr above sea level in a quiet village in those mountains. So in the mountains, but close to the city. Both boxes ticked.
6) With fees and everything, it cost about 70k Euro, which I had just about enough to pay cash for.

So everything that was needed was all in this first place we saw. I think that the 'universe' or whatever supported our basic needs, as we were not after living a baller lifestyle in a McMansion, but aspired to work together to create something nice and ultimately self sufficient.

FWIW