E-cigarettes: research - experiments - ideas

The jury is out on that one, I'm afraid. And you are forgetting that nebulised (vapourised) PG is a potent anti-microbial. I vaped my way through Covid without ever catch it ( as did my wife) and I ascribed that to the anti-microbial properties of PG - maybe incorrectly but the correlation is there
In the earlier years of vaping I read a lot of posts in vaping forums of people who did not tolerate PG well. I find myself unable to recommend it.

And then there is nicotine in the liquid, also a potent anti-microbial. Who's the winner?

And then the subject came up in the latest session....
 
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Maybe you should try vaping nicotine salts using a 1 ohm or greater coil. I find that a LOT smoother.

That was the plan, but I can't find nicotine salts in VG around here. All I found was salts in 50/50 PG/VG.

From experience with a cheap tobacco store vape we tried initially, we know it's much less harsh. On the other hand, some Frenchies (can't find the link now) claim that the difference is that nic salts are absorbed like nicotine for ciggies, while nicotine base is not. So salts are less harsh, but you can end up vaping like you smoke.

For me, that's bad becuz when I smoke ciggies, I have a very hard time not binging and smoking tons. IOW, if I could smoke 5 ciggies a day, I'd be happy. But I start and then slowly increase more and more until I'm doing 25-30 a day. The C's once told me I'm "50/50" for needing to smoke, which I suspect is quite accurate for various reasons.

For Chu, she wants to minimize smoking (to zero) for her vocal cords, etc. Therefore, we're trying to find the "optimal nicotine path" for us. We've been through lozenges, gums, nicotine pouches, Da Vinci / Heets type gizmos, patches, and now we're on vaping. By experimenting, we've both determined that zero nicotine is bad for us, but our experiences have been very different. Our current vape protocol is working quite well for both of us, which is unusual.

So far, vaping is best, but we're still experimenting!

Depending on what we discover/dig up ourselves, we might ask the C's about PG next time - we'll see. My feeling based on the answers they already gave is that PG is like smoking: it's great in certain ways, but bad in others. I think the same could be said for most things we ingest, so maybe it's more about finding what works best generally and then on top of that, each person needs to optimize their system for their own particular body/needs. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

We really don't know for sure, hence this thread.
 
Okay, so today's experiment is:
  1. 4 mL 100% VG with nicotine at 20mg/mL
  2. 2 mL 100% VG
  3. 4 mL distilled water
  4. Shake the 10mL solution to mix, and puff!
This gives 60% VG, 40% water, and 8mg/mL nicotine strength. 10 was a bit too strong for both Chu and I.
So far, so good: it's much milder, less watery, and nico strength seems better (weaker).

You can also mix a 50/50 water/VG solution at 8mg/mL as follows:
  1. 4 mL 100% VG with nicotine at 20mg/mL
  2. 1 mL 100% VG
  3. 5 mL distilled water
⚗️👨‍🔬
 
For Chu, she wants to minimize smoking (to zero) for her vocal cords, etc. Therefore, we're trying to find the "optimal nicotine path" for us

I’d never really thought about this before … being a singer myself, I actually smoke
when I’m singing sometimes, mind you im a rock singer :headbanger: Unlike chu who I’m sure sings like an angel ☺️ When I belt and used mixed voice at high end of my range I can hit 2 notes at once, one even higher like an octave or two, I wonder if this is from smoking?

I will give this vaping a go, but as I’ve posted earlier, it’s clown town here in oz, so it might take me a while .. hopefully I’ll be able to get the ingredients..

Thanks everyone for the info, the ratios that work for you are helpful for us to see what works and then refine to our own needs
 
SS(stainless steel) Mesh Atomizer

Here are some pictures that will hopefully show the working principle:

1. Insert mesh sheet into slots and tighten with screws
2. Insert cotton, cut the ends and put them into the liquid reservoir

Mesh deck.pngInsert cotton.pngCotton with liquid.png

These atomizers are available with various capacities from 2 ml to 4,5 ml. The latter has a glass tank.
 
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Thank you for your replies, @broken.english ! We still haven't found an optimal solution, and it's still a bit harsh with the most recent experiment, but your tips sure helped.

’d never really thought about this before … being a singer myself, I actually smoke
when I’m singing sometimes, mind you im a rock singer :headbanger: Unlike chu who I’m sure sings like an angel ☺️ When I belt and used mixed voice at high end of my range I can hit 2 notes at once, one even higher like an octave or two, I wonder if this is from smoking?

LOL! No idea, but it sounds cool. And I'm no angel singer, just missing amateur singing, which I used to do a lot. There are many singers who smoke and have beautiful voices, so I wouldn't know why it happens to some, and not others. What I did was "bust" my vocal chords years ago, from a bad technique, plus chain smoking. I developed a Reinke's edema. As you can see from that link, it is 100% linked to smoking (by mainstream medicine). So, I didn't believe it at first. But after going from 20-25 ciggies a day to 2 or 0, I noticed a BIG improvement in my voice. I went back to the surgeon, and she confirmed that the edema had reduced quite a bit in size. I had had it for 6 years, and reducing smoking was the only thing that helped. SO...

If it had just been my voice, I wouldn't have done much. But I also had bladder issues (linked to smoking as well), and they have improved too. Another long story, but basically, several factors at once improved. I think I just became more "intolerant" to tobacco, or something. But that is just one case in many, so you have to decide for yourself what is better for you. If you DO decide to try the vaping, I hope you can get the stuff in OZ!
 
Thank you for your replies, @broken.english ! We still haven't found an optimal solution, and it's still a bit harsh with the most recent experiment, but your tips sure helped.
We could easily escalate this some further by measuring the ph-value of your liquid. If it is alkaline it could be brought into neutral territory by adding a drop or two of a mild solution of water/ascorbic acid.
 
Thank you for your replies, @broken.english ! We still haven't found an optimal solution, and it's still a bit harsh with the most recent experiment, but your tips sure helped

Today we changed again to 60/40 VG/H2O and 6mg/mL nicotine strength. We suspect the high nicotine content started irritating our throats after 4 days of 50/50 (VG/water) at 10mg/mL.
We don't seem to need the super-strength nicotine, so we're gonna do 60/40 at 6mg for a few days and see what happens...
 
For those of you currently vaping, do you prefer MTL (mouth to lung) or DTL (direct to lung)?

The only ones I’ve ever tried are MTL (which is typical for the disposable types). @Scottie and @Chu and anyone else, have you tried a higher ohm coil, like 0.8 or higher, for mouth to lung inhalation? And have you tried adding your own natural flavors, or do you prefer unflavored?

To explain what on earth these acronyms mean for people reading the thread: my understanding is that MTL (mouth to lung) is similar to cigarette smoking in that you inhale into your mouth first, like drawing from a cigarette, and then inhale into your lungs. This tends to be favored by smokers for that reason, and is much easier on the lungs. For this, you need to buy 0.8+ ohm vape coils (1.2 seems to be the average) rather than the sub-ohm variety. This method uses much less e-liquid and battery draw on your vape. In terms of liquid, the general recommendation is 50/50 VG/PG, but 70/30 also works fine. Apparently, you need a bit of PG to thin out the liquid and deliver enough flavor when using lower wattage MTL devices. It seems that you can use 100% VG, but you might struggle getting enough flavor and vapor.

The DTL (direct to lung) method, on the other hand, is what old-school vapers prefer. You inhale for 3-5 seconds directly into your lungs. It produces huge clouds of vapor, and consequently uses a lot more e-liquid. It can take some getting used to, especially if you’re a smoker. Most people vape direct-to-lung if they perform tricks, “cloud chase,” or enjoy the flavor profile of an e-liquid on exhale rather than inhale. You need sub-ohm coils (under 1.0) and high-wattage vape devices. It also uses your battery up fast. This method is less reliant on PG though, so a completely VG/distilled water solution is just fine.

Devices such as the popular one that Scottie mentioned, the Vaporesso Luxe XR Max, can handle any wattage and have a toggle on the side to switch between MTL and DTL. They also offer a range of coils for both, ranging from 0.4 up to 1.6 ohms. As long as you buy the right coils, you can vape with your desired method.

(A note to Australians, these products are on the TGA list, so the online pharmacies will start stocking them. One has already claimed their intent to. And as @987baz mentioned, nicotine solutions are already available. 100mg strength bottles contain nicotine benzoate 10%, propylene glycol 90%. In a 30ml solution, you might end up adding 1-3ml, depending on your desired strength of nicotine.)

In Australia, I scooped up a year’s supply from Alkymia E-Juices (they offer 100% VG, and 70/30 for MTL vapers). Their cinammon scroll and coffee flavors sounded yummy. But I’m one of those people who is guilty of enjoying flavor in their tobacco. Toffee or rum <3

Since their e-liquids do not contain nicotine, here’s their recommended nicotine solution, which could be useful:



For those of you looking for flavored premade e-juices with no PG, they do exist. Here’s one I found as an example:
The vast majority of those flavors are natural or USDA-certified organic.

broken.english detailed his method of flavoring shredded tobacco leaves, but I wonder if natural PG-free flavors can be added to a DIY nicotine/VG solution.
I was just about to post that website! I ordered some liquid off there last year, it arrived with no issues. I can’t handle the PG, it would make me have diarrhea and bloating. No issues with this mix.

Funny how I picked up my vape again a couple months ago after realizing I completely forgot about it. My throat would get hoarse after using daily for a few weeks but that seems to have gone away. I remember a lady told me at the smoke shop that high nicotine content in vapes can dry your throat out so it’s best to start small. Watch out for the delay though! It takes a few min to absorb and if you take a few puffs thinking ‘dang is this thing even working?’ and then get hit by a big buzz.
 
I remember a lady told me at the smoke shop that high nicotine content in vapes can dry your throat out so it’s best to start small.
Both PG and VG are dehydrating, VG less so than PG.

I noticed it myself while trialing a non-healthy disposable vape a couple of weeks ago, which undoubtedly is 50/50 VG/PG with other nasty ingredients. It gave me cotton mouth after a few days, and it took me a couple more days to get my hydration levels back up. The high PG levels are likely the culprit!
 
LOL! No idea, but it sounds cool. And I'm no angel singer, just missing amateur singing, which I used to do a lot. There are many singers who smoke and have beautiful voices, so I wouldn't know why it happens to some, and not others. What I did was "bust" my vocal chords years ago, from a bad technique, plus chain smoking. I developed a Reinke's edema. As you can see from that link, it is 100% linked to smoking (by mainstream medicine). So, I didn't believe it at first. But after going from 20-25 ciggies a day to 2 or 0, I noticed a BIG improvement in my voice. I went back to the surgeon, and she confirmed that the edema had reduced quite a bit in size. I had had it for 6 years, and reducing smoking was the only thing that helped. SO...

If it had just been my voice, I wouldn't have done much. But I also had bladder issues (linked to smoking as well), and they have improved too. Another long story, but basically, several factors at once improved. I think I just became more "intolerant" to tobacco, or something. But that is just one case in many, so you have to decide for yourself what is better for you. If you DO decide to try the vaping, I hope you can get the stuff in OZ!

haha yeah it's like one of those Tibetan throat singers, but i can't control the pitch of the high note.

wow, that sounds frustrating and sore? on the plus side, a low gravely voice is quite lucrative in some places :lol:;-)

Interesting that reducing smoking made such a big difference, glad that the vaping seems to do the trick!

By the time you guys get the mixture perfect, hopefully I'll be able to join the experiment, the idea never really appealed to me before, but I can see advantages now for sure, if I can tolerate it (fingers crossed), I'll be giving it a go in October
 
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